Any European history folks here? I have a question...

[CTyankee]

I have traveled to both Spain and Portugal and what I can't figure out is why Spain developed such great artists and not Portugal? Also, Portugal's cuisine and wine aren't nearly as superb as those of Spain. That is, of course, my opinion. I wonder why, since they are right next to each other and have similar languages.

No Portuguese Goya, Velasquez or Picasso.

I went to Lisbon's major art museum the Gulbankian, and was really disappointed as I was expecting it to be like the Prado or La Reina Sofia.

That said, I really had a wonderful time there with 5 other gal pals...we called ourselves "The Six Broads Abroad." We used to go up on our hotel's roof and drink wine and eat the bread and cheese we bought at little markets...fun time...

[LisaM]

1. Off the top of my head, I'd say patronage.

That's just a guess, but many great artists had patrons and it made an artistic tradition possible. I think the Spanish Royal Court probably patronized many artists.

[CTyankee]

2. huh...I will ponder that...

[panader0]

3. I too have traveled to both Spain and Portugal. I was 7. (1957)

In Portugal I read Donald Duck comic books. But in Spain, it was Superman.
My main memory was climbing the Giralda tower in Seville. I beat my parents by a lot.

[avebury]

4. I loved Portugal. I visited it several

years ago spending 4 days on my own and then joining a tour. I was amazed at how much there was to do in the Lisbon area. Lisbon also has an ancient art museum and modern art museum. The Decorative Art Museum was really nice. Sintra was an easy day trip via rail with two palaces to visit. Palace of Queluz, the smaller Versailles styled palace where State Visitors are often housed was nice to visit. Porto offered the best salmon I have ever tasted. Overall I found the food very tasty.

I was amazed at how much Portugal had to offer. I went to check it off my travel list and it ended up being one of my favorites countries. The people were very friendly and, at the time I visited, it was very affordable.

[zipplewrath]

5. size matters

First there is the statistical nature. More people, more chances. Also means more money for patronage.
Second, there may have been comparable artists, but they may have been less likely to be preserved into the future.
Third, you're just dead wrong on the food and wine. It's where port comes from donchaknow.

[CTyankee]

6. I don't drink port so that hadn't occurred to me but makes sense.

I hadn't thought of the population size. That's got to be it, altho there are small European countries that have produced fabulous artists. Rembrandt and the Netherlands come to mind.

Or maybe it is just a random thing. Interesting how these great artists burst upon the scene.

[Donkees]

7. Maybe due to the Moorish Conquest and Spain being closer to France (?)

[CTyankee]

8. hmm, I'll give that some thought. It's intriguing.

BTW, the Pyrenees were mystical IMO. I couldn't believe how I felt going through them. Amazing.
I'll think through the Moorish conquest...it's interesting...

Thanks!

[Basic LA]

9. The Lusiads is one of the great epic poems of the Renaissance.

Written by Luis Vaz de Camoes, published in 1572, The Lusiads immortalizes Vasco da Gama's voyages of discovery via southern Africa to India. The epic poem speaks of the precariousness of power, and the rise and decline of nationhood.

[Tanuki]

10. The devastating earthquake that struck Lisbon in 1755, with an associated tsunami

and fire, may have had something to do with this.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/earthquake-takes-heavy-toll-on-lisbon

"A devastating earthquake hits Lisbon, Portugal, killing as many as 50,000 people, on this day in 1755. The city was virtually rebuilt from scratch following the widespread destruction.

Lisbon was Portugal’s capital and largest city during the prosperous 18th century, when diamonds and gold from the Portuguese colony in Brazil made many in the country wealthy. About 10 percent of Portugal’s 3 million people lived in Lisbon and, as one of the biggest ports on the Atlantic Ocean, the city played a critical role in world trade. In 1755, Lisbon was also a major center of Catholicism and was home to Catholic religious authorities.

On All Saints Day, three tremors over the course of 10 minutes suddenly struck Lisbon. The worst of the quakes is thought to have had a magnitude of 8.0, though this is just an estimate as no recording equipment existed at the time. The shaking was felt as far away as Morocco.

The devastating effects of the earthquake were felt throughout the city. Close to the coast, a 20-foot tsunami rushed ashore and killed thousands. Many people were observing All Saints Day in churches at the time and died when the buildings collapsed. Fires broke out all over the city and winds spread the flames quickly. The royal palace was destroyed, as were thousands of homes. Much of the country’s cultural history, preserved in books, art and architecture, was wiped away in an instant. Many of the city’s residents, including hundreds of escaped prisoners, fled Lisbon immediately. The death toll has been estimated at between 10,000 and 50,000.

The Marquis of Pombal was assigned the task of rebuilding the city. The twisting narrow streets that had once made up Lisbon were replaced by broad avenues. The reconstruction also featured one of the first uses of prefabricated buildings. While the rebuilding was a notable success, some used the tragedy for their own purposes. Religious authorities proclaimed that the earthquake was caused by the wrath of God, brought on the city because of its sins. The famous author Voltaire, who witnessed the quake, parodied this line of thinking—along with those who insist that everything that happens is for the best—in the book Candide."

  

[haele]

11. The Reconquista, weak kings - and the destruction of Lisbon in 1755 put a capper on it.

Portugal had the best fleet in Europe from the 1000's into the mid-16th century and a thriving culture based quite a bit on North African civilization and trade.
They were considered well educated and scientifically minded. Rumor and some archeology indicates that somewhere between 700 and 900 CE, Portuguese fishermen travelled as far as the Outer Banks chasing cod every spring, and may have set up summer camps to smoke and preserve their catches along the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

However, a spate of misfortunate deaths in the royal family in the 1500s and 1600s, and a couple poor strategic exploration choices and - and two disastrous naval events, Spain started gaining ascendancy. And Portugal started sliding into petty mediocrity in the late 16th century after they expelled "non-Christians" as Spain had done earlier, pretty much ensuring the decline of both their traditions of education and scientific experimentation.
Unfortunately by that time, Spain had control of all the other countries on the Iberian peninsula, so there was no connections with pretty much the rest of Europe without going through Spanish, French, or English territories - all of whom viewed Portugal as a rival.
So, by the 17th century, Portugal was limping along, trying to make money as a latecomer merchant shipper, when the capital Lisbon was destroyed by quake, tsunami, and fire all within a span of three days. Pretty much wiped out the economic base of the country.
The king, courtiers, and Portuguese bankers all went into pretty much a century long "grab onto whatever you can and sell it" mode, and they were never really able to recover the culture they once had.

Haele

[CTyankee]

12. what a wonderful history! Thank you so much. It explains a lot...