General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs it too late for the republicans to stop Mueller? I think it likely that he has a fist full of
sealed grand jury indictments that is growing daily.
Mueller and his team are by no means foolish enough to feel secure in this politically panicked environment. The only reason that republicans in Washington and perhaps in state houses around the country are feeling the cold hand of the law descending on them is that they , indeed,
are complicit in the conspiracy to to steal the presidency and defraud our democracy. Thus their desperation to find some way to end or contaminate Muellers efforts to uncover the Russian interference in our democratic election process. The prospect that exposure will delegitimize a portion of the Republican Congress is a nightmare that the republicans may never be able to wake up from.
If they thought trump would be the only causality from this investigation they would not be as panicked as they seem. They would just try to delay rather than destroy, appearing patriotic rather than complicit. They sense a massacre coming, an Alamo of their own making, a Dunkirk of their own doing with no boats on the horizon, no life vests either.
Deven Nunes is the classic example of a desperate un indicted co-conspirator. His flailing, scrambling and inept efforts to throw smoke into the investigation have done nothing less than make the need for this investigation more obvious. His willingness to expose highly classified information suggests the lengths to which he and others will go to try to save themselves from the acts they committed for the Russians and trump.
It is too late for trump to end the investigation, indictments and trials, perp walks and felons in cells are coming to a video screen near you.
samnsara
(17,615 posts)hes got to be an embarrassment to his district to see him running around like a damned idiot.
imanamerican63
(13,768 posts)I think Nunes has perjured himself and could also be indicted for interfering with a investigation with the Feds & Mueller?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He has a wide berth in his role as head of the House intel committee. It would be hard to prove "interfering with" the Mueller investigation. As far as I know, even, he hasn't done that.
imanamerican63
(13,768 posts)He said people purposely perjured to cover for Hillary & his words could get him in deep trouble too!
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Unless he was interviewed under oath (or his oath being assumed, because he's a federal rep), and he perjured himself there.
: the voluntary violation of an oath or vow either by swearing to what is untrue or by omission to do what has been promised under oath : false swearing
Sam McGee
(347 posts). . . his district is as dumb as he is? Or at least a majority of those who vote . . .
Doitnow
(1,103 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)He also thinks smart people are stupid and vise versa.
Zambero
(8,964 posts)You'll get a pat answer: We're cooperating fully with the Mueller investigation and the ongoing investigations from Congressional oversight as well, while his partisan surrogates are pulling out every stop to discredit the country's intelligence apparatus. Indeed Putin being held blameless by these weasels is getting a payoff on his investment, bit by bit.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)At least that seems to the consensus on what will happen if and when the obstruction investigation completes.
But why would the house do anything with that recommendation?
I think that is a very likely outcome.
Then what?
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)complicit GOP. They just don't give a damn and are protecting their hide and their fuhrer's.
Zambero
(8,964 posts)the GOP hanging together with Trump or hanging individually without him. No longer an "outsider", Trump represents the face of the newly realigned Republican establishment. Fight Trump, or even hold him accountable for his words and actions, and the far right will send you packing. Last year, most Republicans expressed initial support for the Mueller investigation after Comey got the slip. But time marches on, and we're in an election year.
RKP5637
(67,102 posts)and the people!
BobTheSubgenius
(11,562 posts)Could the designated cat-herders like Ryan and O'Connell have enough influence to push some of their minions to impeach, if they saw that in their own interests? Are there enough actual American Senators and Reps to push the measure over the top, assuming the Democrats' enthusiastic participation? Could they be leveraged into it, directly (possibly illegal, but at least bad optics) or indirectly?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)His job is to investigate collusion w/the Russians and obstruction of justice. It's not to determine whether Trump should be impeached. Only Congress can conclude that, and do it.
Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)That once the investigation concluded that there is sufficient evidence to bring charges they are faced with the choice of bringing a criminal indictment of a sitting president or recommending impeachment.
There is no precedent for the indictment path and its constitutionality is undetermined.
There is also no explicit channel for reporting a recommendation for impeachment to congress, but the precedents exist and the constitutionality is clear.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)https://www.thenation.com/article/robert-muellers-end-game-is-trumps-impeachment-a-possibility/
Note: Mueller is a special counsel, as opposed to a special prosecutor. That may make a difference.
FakeNoose
(32,617 posts)Think of Mueller as a special DA because that's basically what he is. He's leading the special investigation but he also determines what lines should be pursued and what laws have been broken. So that makes him a DA as well as an investigator. He's following the law and there should be no political motivation for his activities. (Try to forget about Kenneth Starr, if you can.)
Articles of impeachment can only be brought up in the House of Representatives and voted upon by the entire House. Then it goes to the Senate where it must be debated and voted upon. If the Senate votes yes then the President is impeached and it means there will be a trial in the Senate chambers. (Being impeached doesn't mean the President has been convicted. It means he'll be brought to trial, where he may or may not be convicted of the charges.) In U.S. history there has never been a President who was impeached and subsequently removed from office. Twice we've had impeachments where the Presidents (Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson) were found not guilty, so they remained in office.
Keep in mind that other scenarios may play out instead. For example the President has the option to resign just as Nixon did, in order to avoid impeachment. Another possibility is that the 25th Amendment could be invoked and the President could be removed from office if his entire Cabinet votes unanimously for his removal. This doesn't seem likely but it could happen.
Mueller's job is to provide evidence of Trump's illegal activities and perhaps legal context for which laws have been broken. The rest is up to Congress and/or the Cabinet. By the time this is over, we're all going to be experts on impeachment.
Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)Recommend.
FakeNoose
(32,617 posts)I said he really has only one option, or he can drop the case entirely if there's nothing found.
We already know he has lots of evidence though.
Voltaire2
(12,995 posts)Neither of them are to impeach. He can bring an unprecedented indictment of a sitting president or he can recommend impeachment. If the investigation concluded that a serious crime was committed those are really the only options. Doing nothing would be the result of concluding that a serious crime had not been committed.
And again nowhere did I state the investigation would impeach the president.
By law, a Special Counsel has no legal authority to make a recommendation of impeachment or draw any legal conclusions.
There are lots of articles explaining this. Heres just one: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/all_the_many_ways_robert_mueller_s_investigation_into_donald_trump_could.html
WhiteTara
(29,699 posts)in his Russian partnered vineyard/winery.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Even if Trump fires Mueller at this point, Mueller has enough dirt and the ability to file charges in state court. And Trump will have just added another nail to his obstruction coffin.
Nope. I don't see any realistic way this ends happily ever after for Donny. Couldn't have happened to a nicer Nazi.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Who would not go forward with charges, except MAYBE for some low level people for minor things. So they can say the got the bad guys and did their job.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)Which is why he's working with the New York Attorney General.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/31/mueller-may-have-an-unexpected-reason-for-teaming-up-with-new-yorks-attorney-general.html
Mueller doesn't have to be the one to file charges, he can get someone else to do it for him.
Xipe Totec
(43,889 posts)Get those out first, where Trump cannot interfere.
He can try to fire Muller all he wants but he's screwed anway.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)and the new one could throw away whatever he doesn't like, like any loyal tool would do.
NoMoreRepugs
(9,401 posts).... having spent a reasonable amount of time over the last
45+ years visiting relatives not far from the Ozarks in Missouri, I say this with some conviction. All those goobers with their tens of millions of guns and billions of rounds of ammo are going to be a problem when this all starts to really hit the fan.
#s are based upon my first hand observation of 20-40 guns per household and minimum 20,000 rounds per.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Seems to me they are generally not too bright, and are totally unaware of real facts. They are also not informed. They watch a bit of Fox News, and that's it.
For the most part, they are totally in Trump's corner, hating liberals and illegal immigrants and such. The KKK is alive and well here.
They will repeat whatever Trump tells them to. They don't care if it's true or not. The goal is to be against liberals and prevent them from doing anything in the government. That's mainly what they care about. So it doesn't matter if they are spewing Trump lies...that's okay. It's like a juvenile joke. The joke is...we're in power and can say all these things, whether they're true or not. And we ALL will say them in unison, because "we're not snowflake liberals."
They don't CARE if Trump colluded with the Russians or if he won legitimately. All they care about is that he is President. They regard him as a really smart billionaire who "tells it like it is."
The one ray of hope is that not ALL bubbas feel this way. I guess that's why Trump's approval numbers are so low. He has only the extremists in his corner.
Ligyron
(7,624 posts)"If they thought trump would be the only causality from this investigation they would not be as panicked as they seem."
spike91nz
(180 posts)It should be: "is it too late for the Republicans to stop the wheels of justice?" Or, "It is too late for the Republicans to answer for their corruption to the American people?" The "Trump vs Mueller" frame plays into their narrative.
Enoki33
(1,587 posts)than conspiracy and obstruction of justice. This is of course speculation. The legitimacy of the election and of dotard are conceivably at stake, but that could not be the major reasons for their public display of panic as they probably view that as political. There is at the core espionage, money laundering and things only Mueller and his team are aware of. The investigation began as a CI operation. The spy hunters saw something that prompted them to implement steps to begin to protect the nation from a foreign threat. In the final analysis RICO may cost them much of their illicit gains.