Joker tried to warn a University of Colorado psychiatrist of attack

[TouchOfGray]

but the parcel wasn't delivered.

EXCLUSIVE: Movie massacre suspect sent chilling notebook to psychiatrist before attack

AURORA, Colo. – James Holmes, the accused gunman in last Friday's midnight movie massacre in Colorado, mailed a notebook "full of details about how he was going to kill people" to a University of Colorado psychiatrist before the attack, but the parcel sat unopened in a mailroom for as long as a week before its discovery Monday, a law enforcement source told FoxNews.com.
Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.
A second law enforcement source said authorities got a warrant from a county judge and took the package away Monday night. When it was opened, its chilling contents were revealed.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/#ixzz21edNs8FI

[aikoaiko]

1. Damn. What a missed opportunity.

What could have been?

[pnwmom]

41. There was probably more than one missed opportunity with that psychiatrist.

For some reason, the psychiatrist thought that first package -- from someone else and harmless -- was from Holmes. Why would he have thought that unless he had already had contact with Holmes?

[PoliticAverse]

76. Yeah I wondered the same thing. n/t

[seabeyond]

2. that psychiatrist dropped the ball in the most horrendous way. nt

[Whiskeytide]

3. Actually, it sounds like some mail room clerk...

... dropped the ball. Very sad. I wouldn't wish that guilt trip on anyone.

[TwilightGardener]

6. In fairness, the package probably sat there too long, but how were the clerks

supposed to know that they held a warning from a murderous psycho in their mailroom?

[Whiskeytide]

13. Oh, I agree. But that wouldn't stop me...

... from feeling like crap if it looked like it might have prevented this.

[former9thward]

26. Why would the clerks leave a package sitting around for a week?

[aikoaiko]

38. typical campus mail -- especially in the summer

[gkhouston]

51. ^^ This. And Holmes probably knew it, too. n/t

[aquart]

54. How were they supposed to know they were supposed to DELIVER the mail?

I dunno. Job description?

[TwilightGardener]

5. Well, it sounds like it was in the mailroom, not in the doctor's possession..

[1gobluedem]

7. Don't think you can blame the psychiatrist

"It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist."

If their university mailroom is anything like the one at the university where I work, it's woefully understaffed and deliveries to campus offices/departments aren't as timely as they should be.

[seabeyond]

10. why it had not been delivered

thanks. i was seeing more the professors going to their box and picking up.

still

so very very sad it was not delivered.

[AndyTiedye]

18. Campus Mail Was a Mess When I was in School

We quickly learned to leave "MIT" off of all mailing addresses.

If we just gave a street address, the mail would be delivered to the building by the Post Office
with its usual degree of timeliness and reliability. If "MIT" appeared anywhere on the address,
it went into the maw of the campus mail system and might never be seen again.

[pnwmom]

35. We can wonder if the psychiatrist had been dealing with Holmes.

Or else why did he report to the police that the first package might be from Holmes (though it turned out to be from someone else and harmless)?

[kestrel91316]

11. How can that be, since the parcel was NEVER DELIVERED??

[seabeyond]

25. posters actually conveyed that WITHOUT YELLING.

as i said, i was picturing the professors picking up their mail. my bad.

[cbdo2007]

19. send a notebook size package to any psychiatrist and see how quickly you get a response.

We correspond with psychiatrists all the time through my work and they'll let their mail sit there for months without opening it...of course the checks they open in 5 minutes, but especially a package they'll just toss in a corner.

[seabeyond]

27. that is what i figured, but as it has been pointed out a number of times, the mail

was delivered.

i was not criticizing this psychiatrist, cause i imagine what you suggest and that it would not have been felt to be a life or death kinda thing. totally out of the norm. and what they must receive. just a horrible thing it was accessible and wasnt gotten to.

[magical thyme]

65. because a package wasn't delivered to him in time?

Does anybody read past headlines any more?

[maddezmom]

4. mail room really screwed up n/t

[Xipe Totec]

9. Blame Holmes. He should have sent it FedEx nt

[4th law of robotics]

8. Seems like the problem then has to do with our access to mental health resources

and/or the stigma associated (especially for men) with seeking out such help.

But if we'd only ban guns then he wouldn't have *decided* to go crazy.

[HereSince1628]

78. "it could not be verified that the psychiatrist had had previous contact with Holmes"

I agree that as a student and as a resident of the Denver area, mental health care was within Holmes means to access. I'd go so far as to say that very good mental health care was within his means to access. Whether he was in a state of mind to do so, well that's beyond knowing from a distance.

This would appear to be another indication of planning and forethought (beyond his purchases and booby-trapping of his residence) that may suggest Holmes understood what he was doing. Whatever is in the notebooks will be relevant when the court considers him
whether he should stand trial.

[justanidea]

12. Wow. I cant help but feel bad for

The person who worked in the mailroom. I imagine they feel awfully guilty about it, even though there is no way they could have known the package would contain something like that.

[Incitatus]

20. No one could have expected a late package

Ro result in something like that, but expect to see several people blame the mail room

[Comrade_McKenzie]

14. I would still expect the psychiatrist to remain confidential about it... nt

[Incitatus]

17. They are allowed to break confidentiality

If it is about a murder the patient says he is going to commit

[soccer1]

23. No, not if the person is threatening criminal activity.

[aikoaiko]

40. imminent harm requires reporting the threat to police and identified victims.

[soccer1]

47. Yes. And that's what is such a shame about this......

Holmes knew the psychiatrist would have to report what Holmes sent to him and turn it over to law enforcement. So, he know the police would come for him....and stop him. I don't know what Holmes was thinking but this scenario seems reasonable.

[LisaL]

57. If there were just drawings, that might not even qualify as a direct threat.

After all, there are lots of violent drawings all over the internet.

[soccer1]

71. I don't know but Holmes sent them to a psychiatrist.....

so I believe he would have turned them over to law enforcement.

[hedgehog]

15. FWIW- I never sent mail to my kids through the university system because I had

other options. I was always able to send mail to relatives in the area for the kids to pick up. It was faster that way!

[Corgigal]

16. trying to set up his insanity defense

I guess just in case he got caught. Won't work asshole, good try.

[frylock]

21. or maybe he's just insane ffs

[magical thyme]

67. because he was sure the package wouldn't get delivered. right. nt

[HereSince1628]

79. Sort of depends on what's in those notes I think.

It's also likely another sign that it wasn't a spontaneous or impulsive act.

[soccer1]

22. Well, it looks like Holmes was looking to be stopped ....

What a shame that the package didn't get to the psychiatrist. Ugh.

[pnwmom]

33. And it probably wasn't his first cry out, either.

Or else why was the psychiatrist expecting a package from him? And he was -- when he got a harmless package from someone else, he reported it to the police because he mistakenly thought it had come from Holmes. Why would he have made that mistake, unless he'd had prior contact with Holmes?

[soccer1]

43. I don't know....good question

[Spike89]

75. Don't know either, but here's an alternative

Since we're all jumping to conclusions...The mailroom finds the misplaced/undelivered parcel with Holmes return address and immediately contacts the professor. He immediately contacts police and tells them he seems to have gotten a parcel from Holmes. There is natural confusion when the professor or police arrive and find multiple packages (the innocent one and the "real" one).

This seems like a more likely scenario in my opinion than one that requires the psychiatrist to be lying about treating Holmes.

I'd expect a psychiatrist to maintain confidentiality of a patient, but sending a letter does not make you automatically a patient, especially if the letter never actually reaches the doctor. Of course, patient confidentiality goes out the window if the patient threatens violence.

[pnwmom]

77. Who said the psychiatrist was lying about not having treated Holmes?

I haven't seen any article that addressed this particular question. But even if he weren't treating Holmes, that doesn't mean Holmes might not have sent him previous letters or otherwise made contact.

[soccer1]

84. Good points!

I agree with your thinking on this. Too bad the psychiatrist didn't get the package before Holmes opened fire. What a shame.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Wow...looks like Holmes really understood university culture already

There is nothing less efficient in these United States than a university mail room.

The source said the package had been in the mailroom since July 12, though another source who confirmed the discovery to FoxNews.com could not say if the package arrived prior to Friday's massacre. It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist. The notebook is now in possession of the FBI, sources told FoxNews.com.

[skip fox]

32. See post #30 for "reason."

[woo me with science]

28. Huh? This doesn't make sense. What is the timeline here?

This doesn't make sense to me as written.

Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.

The psychiatrist reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. However, that package turned out to be harmless, and the mailroom had to be searched before the murderer's package was found. If the psychiatrist never had the murderer's package, why and what did the psychiatrist report?

What am I missing here?

[pnwmom]

31. You're asking basically the same question I did, below.

There's something missing here.

[woo me with science]

42. I get so tired of bad journalism

on top of everything else.

[rocktivity]

53. That doesn't sound right to me either.

They found the package from Holmes purely by chance after investigating ANOTHER package? Why would he believe that it could be from Holmes? And why did they do a search of the mailroom in the first place? It has to be because Holmes had told the professor to expect something -- he might even have sent the first package (which I presume had no return address) as a "decoy." Just the sort of thing a brilliant but manipulative mind would do.


rocktivity

[HiPointDem]

55. the first package wasn't from holmes.

[rocktivity]

63. But why did the professor suspect that it MIGHT be from Holmes?

Under the current circumstances, I can certainly understand the professor's not wanting to open the first package if he couldn't tell who sent it. But if he COULDN'T tell who sent it, why suspect Holmes unless he had a REASON to? And SOMETHING must initiated the search for the second package...


rocktivity

[HiPointDem]

64. no clue, but that's what the article said. it's very poorly written & i suspect not accurate.

[hamsterjill]

68. I wonder if Holmes told the police he had sent the package?

I'm sure we don't know everything that Holmes has told police. He obviously gave up some information, like the fact that his apartment was rigged, so perhaps he also told police that he'd sent a package. And the police may have initially told the professor to be on the look out for it. When the professor found what he thought was something from Holmes, he called police. That wasn't the "right" package, so they looked further and found the one in the mail room.

Of course all of this (throughout the thread) is speculation because the article doesn't explain all that happened.

[rocktivity]

73. DING DING DING! hamsterjill, you're our grand prize winner!

...(P)erhaps he also told police that he'd sent a package...(They) may have initially told the professor to be on the look out for it...

Yes, that's certainly possible. And no doubt Holmes is having the time of his young life -- being key to the mystery, controlling every move, dangling the cops on his string, playing chess with checker-playing intellectual inferiors. What other "confessions" has he got up his sleeve -- any more "booby traps?" It's fun being a world-famous center of attention, isn't it?


rocktivity

[hamsterjill]

87. Seems this is right, too!

Holmes told police about the package.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/25/12950440-source-tip-from-accused-aurora-shooter-leads-fbi-to-package?lite

[LisaL]

86. Apparently Holmes did just that.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/25/12950440-source-tip-from-accused-aurora-shooter-leads-fbi-to-package?lite

[Spike89]

80. Simple explanation (guess)

Someone in the mailroom saw the package with Holmes name (as stated in the article). Someone in the mailroom called the professor and told him that he had a package from Holmes. The professor called police and/or rushed over to the mailroom and he or the police found the suspicious package (the harmless one NOT sent by Holmes).
They then proceeded to search for the real one, which probably had been set aside as very important, or possibly dangerous.

None of these things seem very far fetched and although they don't fit a conspiracy theme, I'm guessing the reality is pretty close to this.

[pnwmom]

29. I think it will turn out the psychiatrist had prior contact with Holmes.

The article says that the psychiatrist first reported receiving a package that turned out not to be from Holmes, and was harmless. Why would this particular psychiatrist think that that first package was from Holmes, unless he had previously had contact with Holmes, or even had gotten another package from him?

Why, after that first package turned out to be harmless, did they search the mailroom for another package from Holmes?

I think the psychiatrist had a good reason for thinking Holmes might have sent him something.

[flamingdem]

34. Exactly. Looks like this shrink had dealings with Holmes, this is suspicious

and may be a case of some shade of incompetency on the part of the shrink. He appears to know something about what he could have received at a minimum.

[LisaL]

39. Even if this shrink had dealings with Holmes, shrink can not warn anyone about any

strange behavior from Holmes, unless Holmes admitted he was planning mass murder. Since this shrink never got the package it's a fair guess shrink never knew about Holmes' plans.

[pnwmom]

49. We don't know yet what the psychiatrist knew. Holmes could have sent the same

package of material previously -- there's no way for us to know, at this point.

[Gin]

56. IMHO

The shrink had the package...never opened it.....took it back to the mailroom then called the police about the other package.....

That way.......he blames the mail room for.not getting it to him...rather than admittiimg he had it and never opened It.

Why would they search the mail room for something from the shooter? The shrink had a lot to protect....the mail room people not as much..

This is just MY humble opinion.

[pnwmom]

58. Interesting idea. We'll probably never know what really happened. n/t

[LisaL]

59. You forgot your tin foil hat.

How is shrink going to get into mail room without employees there noticing?

[bbgrunt]

74. easy. Just put it in with other items being sent out by campus mail and it

gets sorted into the campus delivery again.

[reformist2]

70. Your humble opinion is probably what really happened, imo.

It just doesn't make sense that a professor would alert the FBI about a package that was nothing, only for them to find something in the mailroom later?

[bornskeptic]

66. Here's a possibility.

The psychiatrist was also a professor, and Holmes, a neuroscience student, was acquainted with him through academics. Sometime earlier, Holmes had told the psychiatrist that he was sending him something he might be interested in. The psychiatrist didn't think it was anything urgent, until he heard about the killings. The mailroom would be closed until Monday, so on Monday he called the mailroom and asked them to see if there was a package fror him. They brought him the other package first, but continued to look until they found the one from Holmes.

[pnwmom]

72. But why did he report a package sent from someone else

as possibly being sent by Holmes?

I doubt it was a social relationship, but that's just my opinion.

[bornskeptic]

83. Because he was expecting a package from Holmes.

The other package had no return address and he understandably notified the police before opning it. If Jolmes was a patient and crying for help, why did he mail it instead of delivering it in person? Holmes may not have known the psychiatrist personally. Maybe he left a message on his voicemail on Saturday or Sunday before the massacre, but didn't mai the package until later. I don't think it was sitting in the mailroom for a long time. I'm guessing that Holmes didn't actually mail it until Thursday or Friday, knowing it wouldn't be delivered before Monday. I'll be surprised if this wasn't just another part of his plan.

[pnwmom]

85. One Fox source said the package had been there since July 12.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/exclusive-movie-massacre-suspect-laid-out-plans-in-package-mailed-to/

James Holmes, the accused gunman in last Friday's midnight movie massacre in Colorado, mailed a notebook "full of details about how he was going to kill people" to a University of Colorado psychiatrist before the attack, but the parcel sat unopened in a mailroom for as long as a week before its discovery Monday, a law enforcement source told FoxNews.com.

SNIP

The source said the package had been in the mailroom since July 12, though another source who confirmed the discovery to FoxNews.com could not say if the package arrived prior to Friday's massacre. It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist. The notebook is now in possession of the FBI, sources told FoxNews.com.

[skip fox]

30. Packages come slowly through campus mail at many universities.

Since Student Aides can't carry the bulk with the letters they return with to departments, the packages (books usually) are allowed to collect there are enough to warrant truck delivery.

I've been teaching on a campus for 31 years and have gripped about it for the same amount of time.

[belcffub]

46. agree...

the college I work at takes forever if the mail enters the mail room... we usually us ups or fedex as the drivers will deliver it to the building and room if specified... otherwise it takes an extra week...

[skip fox]

48. With us it's just packages and 3rd rate mail.

First rate might take an extra 1 to 1/2 day.

[HereSince1628]

82. In some universities faculty have to pick-up their own mail

And with respect to packages the faculty member might have been off-campus and didn't respond to a notification it was in the mailroom---

possibly on vacation, gone to meetings, responding to the aftermath of the wildfires, etc.

Possibly many reasons why that package sat there so long. I think this will be revealed but I think there is no reason to assign any motivation/wrong doing to the psychiatrist.

[nanabugg]

36. Should we privatize the Univ of CO mailroom? Since this can't be blamed on the USPS. nt

[skip fox]

37. Another interesting angle is Holmes's undermining of his own endeavor. This fits

with telling the police of this bombs in his apartment and his giving up without a fight afterword.

It indicates an extremely unbalanced mind. (I'm making no legal judgment.)

Maybe it's part of the bizarre script he was and may be still writing:

1. The Joker prepares.
2. The Joker gives a warning.
3. The Joker carries out his evil deed.
4. The joker is captured and plays mental chess with the detectives.
5. The Joker is sentenced to death.
6. The Joker escapes from death-row by inventing a metal melting ray in hie cell.
7. The Joker builds his brilliant-evil Armageddon machine.
8. ???????

[seabeyond]

44. it could also be that he was sane and was not totally committed to killing others.

giving the opportunity to be caught.

i think it can as well work proving he is not extremely unbalanced

[skip fox]

45. Again, I make no judgments. Your idea is good.

FDo you see the fantasy movie script he was writing?

[seabeyond]

50. " I make no judgments." ya. no one knows, well, those of us not involved. nt

[joeybee12]

52. This is a Fox news exclusive SOOOOOO

I'll wait for a real news source to see exactly what the story is about this.

[gregoire]

61. Beat me to it. We know this story is complete BS

It's a cheap shot from them against the medical profession.

[magical thyme]

69. how is this a shot against the medical profession? versus a shot against university mailrooms? nt

[TouchOfGray]

62. Welllllll, I tried ABC news for confirmation but

apparently Brian Ross is still busy trying to confirm that the shooter has a Tea Party web page or something.

[El Supremo]

81. Why were you the first to realize that?

I wouldn't trust Faux News to report on an overflowing toilet. Matter of fact, that is exactly what they are.

[FSogol]

60. I think you are bashing DC comics. The Joker is a fictional character. James Holmes is a real life

monster or mentally ill individual. Why feed into his fantasies by calling him Joker?