No shit, Sherlock UPDATE: Body language expert says Colorado shooting suspect 'faking it'

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Body language expert says Colorado shooting suspect 'faking it'

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Body-language-expert-says-Colorado-shooting-suspect-faking-it-163621976.html

Holmes' courtroom behavior may act as a window into his mindset, demonstrating whether he actually knew right from wrong, according to body language expert Renate Mousseux.

“He has his eyes wide open, like a crazed look,” said Mousseux, who noted that his facial expressions would stretch on for 20 to 30 seconds. “But research has proven that eye movements and emotions are between five and 10 seconds at most. So what that means is he was looking into the camera with his crazed look for much longer than 10 seconds.”

Based on analysis of Holmes' body language at his court appearance, Mousseux believes that Holmes was very aware of what he was doing.

“His look is not an honest one. It is a put-on ... he's faking it,” Mousseux said.

[warrior1]

1. hmm

I'll wait for a psychiatrist to look at him and read that report. Body language, or gut reaction. I'm not an expert I felt he was faking also. But again, I'm not an expert.

[DearAbby]

8. I tend to be more of a wait and see

I want this one done by the book. No trial by media. No arm chair Psychiatrists, pulling a Frist. BY THE BOOK.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

2. Is it possible he thinks this is some sort of experiment?

The fact he didn't kill himself or engage in "suicide by cop" seems strange to me. I know he was in a neuroscience program. Is he some sort of twisted genius who thinks he's engaging in some sort of test?

[Ganja Ninja]

24. He's playing some kind of game.

He's messed up. My impression is that he thinks he's smart enough to fool the system. He's one sick pup but he's not a raving loon. He's a stone cold killer. There is no remorse of any kind there. He says he's the Joker but I think he fancies himself as a Hannibal Lecter type. Not a cannibal but as you said a twisted genius that's too smart for everyone else.

[RKP5637]

36. Interesting observation, it could be some type of twisted game he's playing in

his mind.

[HooptieWagon]

50. Its a role-playing game.

I said this when the first details came out. He's playing the part of a super-villian. Many of his actions were for theactrical effect, rather than logical or efficient. I expect that to continue. He will attempt to game the psychiatrists, the court, the media... he thinks he's the smartest guy.

[cwydro]

81. I agree.

that performance in court was faked.

[loyalsister]

63. That occurred to me too

From what I can tell, it seems like he didn't even mind getting caught.
It reminds me of an episode of Law & Order. The murderer was an author of fiction and said that he wanted to kill so that he could write about criminals authentically. He also asked for the death penalty.

[DevonRex]

3. That was overacting if ever I saw it. nt

[LiberalLoner]

14. +1

[hedgehog]

4. This post belongs in the Senator Frist collection of long range diagnosis by video

Let's wait to hear from the psychiatrists who no doubt will be hired by the prosecution and defense teams!

[DearAbby]

9. +1

[backscatter712]

11. +2

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has his bullshit alarm tripped when they bring out the "body language experts."

[HereSince1628]

12. Agreed. n/t

[magical thyme]

48. +1. sounds like the so-called expert has zero training and questionable background

looking for her 15 minutes.

From reporters descriptions, it sounds like they've drugged him. And cameras have been barred from the courtroom, which seems like the best course.

[cwydro]

82. He was not on drugs.

That has been established.

This guy has the knowledge to fake insanity. Or at least try to fake insanity.

He had this planned and he thinks he will get away with it. That is my opinion. Hopefully the letters he sent to the university will help to prove he planned this.

He deserves prison for life with no possibility of parole.

[magical thyme]

87. link establishing that he wasn't drugged at the court appearance?

I don't know either way. Since I'm on dialup, I don't often try to download video, so have to rely on descriptions.

Trying to fake mental illness is harder than people think. Personally, I'm waiting for the facts to come out.

[Myrina]

74. +1 more ...

Indeed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. Reading tea leaves

body "language" interpreter.

[HuckleB]

71. +1,000,000,000 ... 000

[closeupready]

6. OMG. The stupid burns, so bad. Yes, Virginia,

there is such a thing as mental illness.

Super

[Amerigo Vespucci]

7. No, mental illness is real, just like this sick fuck's ACTING.

It was just too "measured." It was staged, just like his "event."

[DearAbby]

10. Killing 12...attempting murder of hundreds..IS CRAZY

it should be determined if he knew right from wrong. He is able to understand the consequences of his actions.

[Myrina]

75. So then every military sharp shooter and bomb dropper is, by your definition, CRAZY ....

... just checking ...

[DearAbby]

78. equating our men and women in armed forces

as crazed killers? Just Asking.

[closeupready]

15. More stupidity. If he's "sick" (your word), he's ill.

DUH.

[EOTE]

33. You are aware that some words have more than one definition, aren't you?

In this case "sick" could be referring to "Unwholesome, morbid or sadistic" which would not be any illness which is recognized by a court of law or medical professional for that matter. So, you might want to save your emoticons for when you've got a better grasp of language and hold off on the snark.

I always get a kick out of when a person demonstrates their own stupidity when trying to point it out in others.

[closeupready]

49. by a ratio of about 9:1, most here agree with my views.

That is all.

[EOTE]

52. Argumentum ad populum?

Even lazier than I'd expect. And was that a scientific poll that you posted to find that out? Regardless, just because the majority of people are entirely ignorant on a subject doesn't mean that ignorance is something to strive for.

[EOTE]

53. Oh, and another thing.

The majority here don't agree with you. Very few people here are so uninformed to believe that this person was suggesting that mental illness doesn't exist. That would just be you, Virginia.

[closeupready]

54. Bzzzt. Wrong answer.

Try again.

[EOTE]

55. What a brilliant demonstration of facts you've presented there!

Oh wait, you've presented absolutely nothing in terms of facts. Making your last post every bit as stupid and unfounded as your previous ones. Let me repeat this for you: Nearly no one at DU is so stupid as to think that the OP or anyone mentioned in it believes that mental illness doesn't exist. It was only your inability to grasp the OP that leads you to believe that.

[Th1onein]

72. Can't you make your point without attacking the other person?

Come on, now. It can be done. It serves no one, this incivility towards one another.

[EOTE]

84. What I was responding to was an attack, a fairly ignorant one at that.

Calling someone stupid because he/she called the shooter "sick"? Yeah, I'm going to respond to that. Want to avoid getting attacked on the internet? It's probably best to not display stupidity while attacking others for theirs.

[Th1onein]

85. I understand what you're saying, but this behavior simply encourages like behavior, and lowers the

level of civility, in general.

Anyway, don't want to hijack the thread.

[Ganja Ninja]

20. Yup and he's not a very good actor either.

[EOTE]

28. No one is suggesting that mental illness isn't real, Virginia.

Just that he could be faking having a mental illness in order to receive a lighter sentence. You may not agree with the conclusion of this body language expert, but you should know what she's attempting to say before you try to deride her.

[mzmolly]

59. The article makes the important distinction

between mental illness and insanity. There is a difference. I also think he's faking insanity. He may very well be mentally ill.

[closeupready]

62. Okay. Point taken. Thanks.

nt

[mzmolly]

79. You're

welcome. Thanks for being open to another perspective.

[pinboy3niner]

64. Excellent point!

[Fresh_Start]

13. "self proclaimed expert"

without any medical training whatsoever.

[rrneck]

16. Shooting a bunch of people in a theater is crazy.

I expect we just don't know what kind of crazy he is yet.

[mzmolly]

60. Crazy... but

not insane, sadly.

[Initech]

17. Obvious diagnosis is obvious.

[Ganja Ninja]

18. I'm not an expert but when I saw this yesterday that was my impression to.

I'm not saying he isn't insane. He just looks to me like he's faking it in this video and not particularly well either. I think he's crazy but he's also crazy smart. He's like some kind of small time Hannibal Lecter. He's playing around and thinks he can fool people. He's getting off on the attention.

[Whisp]

19. made me think of the 'Lie to Me' series on Netflix.

They are body language readers. Fascinating show.

[Brickbat]

21. "Expert," ROFLMAO.

Look, I'm all for intuition. But putting a "body language expert" in a newspaper story is just laughable. This woman lists a company that does "spirit readings" as one of her employers on Facebook. According to her own resume on her own website, she has no "training" in recognizing body language. Come on.

[KurtNYC]

22. Was this "body language expert" teaching High School French 5 years ago?

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/renate-mousseux/177633-t

and was she even in the courtroom ?

I don't see the point in her simple speculation. That he shot 70 people that he didn't even know speaks for itself.

If anything good can come out of this shooting it may be a better understanding of this kind of madness and what we can do to contain or control it but that won't come from high school French teachers just watching this Sideshow Bob on TV (like the rest of us).

[MattBaggins]

23. Body language experts are about as trustworthy as tarot card readers.

[seabeyond]

25. really... i am not buying it either. i feel like

his life was crap, he is in this world of lack of empathy for others. knew it was wrong. yet, did it anyway.

[jedicord]

26. My son is bipolar

At 16 he became suicidal, thankfully telling his counselor who told me. His first diagnosis at the hospital was bipolar with psychosis, and he was heavily medicated. When I first saw the video of Holmes (and every time since) I was struck by the way he looked, it was a duplicate of my son at that time. He WOULD open his eyes wide for long periods of time because he couldn't keep from falling asleep. And he was not able to grasp anything that was going on around him. If this guy's acting, he's actually doing a rather fine job of it.

[FedUpWithIt All]

38. Also, at one point in the video he blinked and his eye rapidly moved to the outer corner

which he had to correct when he opened his eyes. That is not something that happens with "faking"

[DawgHouse]

40. ITA

I am sorry about your son. I too have had the unfortunate experience of spending time with a close friend who is bipolar. I have spent hours and hours in mental hospital visitation rooms, observing my friend and others. I don't think Holmes is faking it, either.

[jedicord]

43. Thank you

It's been 3 years since his first diagnosis and he's doing so much better. Not cured by any means, but much better - functioning, and his eyes are smiling again.

[flamingdem]

27. Can one be suicidal yet unable to stand being killed

or killing oneself? Maybe part of a kind of depression.

We won't see him again I think that the prosecution believes the crazy eyes video will make it hard for him to get a fair trial.

[jedicord]

30. Yes

That's why my son told his counselor about his suicidal thoughts. He was becoming unable to resist the urge to kill himself, and very much didn't want to die. I count myself very lucky that he recognized this, many don't.

[flamingdem]

34. That very good that he had help

and very interesting what you said about how your son looked and what we saw in the video.

I don't think that can be faked. He looked drugged, but he did look so out of it one has to wonder why they had him in there with cameras.

[gregoire]

29. Faking doesn't explain his pupils

What are they forcing him to take?

[flamingdem]

31. Yes, they were huge

He was drugged for sure, there were statements, not sure if valid, that he was spitting and aggressive, so they couldn't bring him to court like that.

[mzmolly]

61. Neither does

insanity, does it?

Got a pic of the massive pupils? I'm curious, regardless.

[librechik]

32. what routine policy is for potentially violent arrestees:

1_ Plastic cuffs, too tight so they can't think about anything else.

2. Cut off clothing.

3 Strip search

4. Suppository of tranquilizing drugs.

5 Dress in orange jumpsuit

6 Incarceration, while waiting for court dates.

He was drugged, it's obvious, this body language guy is full of it.

[pnwmom]

35. Does this guy read palms, too? n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. I think he is as crazy as a loon. I really do

That boy's just not right. I'm not buying for a second that he is mentally normal.

[Zorra]

39. My divination of chicken guts tells me the same thing.

I can also read his palm in the videos.

?

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. I'll wait for the competency hearing

Thank you very much.

For the record, he could still be a loon, and be able to stand trial. The standard to meet for insanity is very high indeed.

[Tobin S.]

42. I looked at a bit of the video and I think I've looked like that before while trying desperately

to stay awake. He looks exhausted to me. He closes his eyes for long periods of time, then opens them really wide like it takes effort to keep them open, then blinks rapidly. It could be that for three days prior to that hearing he hadn't had any or very little sleep.

I listened to CNN's coverage of the hearing on the radio and it was pretty dull considering the circumstances- not exactly conducive to staying alert if you are very tired. The press was trying so hard to read the guy describing his behavior as "bizarre" "zoned out" "drugged", etc. stopping short of the word they all actually seemed to want to use- that being "CRAZY!"

You can try to judge a person form his or her exterior all you want to, but you really don't know what's going on inside their head until you hear them say something.

[Kablooie]

83. He was probably severely interrogated all weekend. Maybe not allowed to sleep.

[Javaman]

44. Sociopath. nt

[Panasonic]

45. I'm betting that he will be FOUND competent to stand trial

and then found guilty and sentenced to life without parole, in a solitary confinement 23 hours a day, with 1 hour of rec/shower time.

6x9 cell for him.

[RevStPatrick]

46. I thought it looked like sleep deprivation.

He probably hadn't slept since Thursday.
By Monday, he was probably pretty frikkin' wired.

[Bonhomme Richard]

47. I am sure keeping the red hair was the attorneys idea.

They want him to look nuts.
In my opinion I am sure he is.

[Politicalboi]

51. That was my thought too

But I'm no expert. It just seemed like he was doing it on purpose to make himself look crazy.

[DefenseLawyer]

56. Accepting an insanity defense requires an ability for abstract thought

Something most Americans simply don't possess.

[Fumesucker]

73. Word..

[jberryhill]

57. Psychologists: "Body Language Expert is faking it"

Let's read the bumps on his head, shall we?

Or go old school, cut open some birds, and look at their livers.

[mzmolly]

58. Those are my

thoughts as well.

[soccer1]

65. My feeling is that he could very well be faking his symptoms....

that was my reaction after seeing him in court. Even the spitting on guards etc. But who knows...he'll be extensively evaluated by psychiatrists for the defense and prosecution.

[Daemonaquila]

66. Garbage opinion, garbage reporting.

Please. I remember similar nonsense in the debate about Terri Schaivo. "Experts" were crawling out of the woodwork to insist that her involuntary reactions were signs of consciousness, even communication. Looks like someone wants his 15 minutes of fame and free advertising for his services.

[nichomachus]

67. +1

[Blue_Roses]

68. Hard to say exactly

since we don't have all the facts. Lots of speculation though and it's easy to see both sides--mentally ill v. faking it.

One thing is for definite sure--and it doesn't take a psychiatrist to spot it--the guy is not right! To be so obsessed with buying the ammo and to go to the degree of theatrics he used, shows some type of mental illness. Whether it qualifies for the insanity plea is another thing. He strikes me as a very manipulative person who knows how to "game" the system, however, it still reeks of some kind of mental breakdown or illness.

I am anxious to hear what his psychiatric evaluations say. Until then, it's speculation.

Sad. This guy has ruined so many lives--including his own.

[JI7]

69. it did seem too obvious didn't it ? almost like some comedy thing

where they exaggerate certain traits of the type they are playing.

i will be interested in hearing what the mental health evaluation says.

[HuckleB]

70. This quack doesn't know jack.

Let's stop reporting every piece of media BS at DU.

[gopiscrap]

76. I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt

[ecstatic]

77. It seems like he has a split personality

A part of him doesn't want to hurt people--which could explain why he sent the notebook and warned the police about the bombs at his apartment. The other part of him is batshit crazy! I don't think a sane person can commit mass murder, but I'm not an expert. Insane or not, he needs to be locked away for the rest of his life.

[cwydro]

80. I thought that the minute I saw him.

This guy is crazy like a fox.

His specialty is neuroscience. He knows how to act.

[Odin2005]

86. TV "Expert" = BS opinion.