Human waste shuts down BART escalators

[alp227]

When work crews pulled open a broken BART escalator at San Francisco's Civic Center Station last month, they found so much human excrement in its works they had to call a hazardous-materials team.

While the sheer volume of human waste was surprising, its presence was not. Once the stations close, the bottom of BART station stairwells in downtown San Francisco are often a prime location for homeless people to camp for the night or find a private place to relieve themselves.

All those biological excretions can gum up the wheels and gears of BART's escalators, shutting them down for long periods of extended repairs, increasing station cleaning costs and creating an unpleasant aroma for morning commuters.

Five of the nine escalators that weren't working at BART stations on Wednesday were in downtown San Francisco, said Jim Allison, a BART spokesman. While there are many reasons a BART escalator can break down, the beating they take at night is among the most acute.

full: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-waste-shuts-down-BART-escalators-3735981.php

Article also includes a photo of the scene...make sure you wait a while if you've recently eaten.

[MADem]

1. Good grief.

What's been done: BART police say it is difficult to enforce laws banning public bathroom use because they must witness the crime, but they are working with city officials to coordinate a response to cleanliness issues.

Get a 7-11 convenience store video surveillance system--this is not rocket science.

[loli phabay]

2. probuably cheaper to place a johnny blue just outside the station.

[NuttyFluffers]

24. there's a well known mentally ill homeless woman who every morning poops across the street of CC sta

she was on the news. and the nice lady in the coffee shop nearby is trying to get her help and teach her to use the store's bathroom. it's taking a very long while, and working only in fits and starts. often there's a lump o' shit next to the bus stop. it's the corner across the street from Civic Center Station and across from the Citibank atm. (edit: Market & 8th, btw) kinda depressing, but there it is.

she needs real help, but with all the services the city can provide, and even public/business interest there's no real way to curb this issue. she needs more assistance than we can provide as Reagan shut down so many of our mental health facilities. sure, there were abuses in the past -- and likely still around in mental health facilities elsewhere -- but leaving them without care on the street isn't exactly an improvement.

by the way, there's a public restroom outside the station. it isn't always working, and at one point people wanted to take even those away due to the junkie problem. but it is there, barring any recent renovations I haven't heard about in the past 5 months.

[Taverner]

59. Sigh...this is why we need to bring back Public Mental Health Clinics

[dixiegrrrrl]

54. Sf tried free public outdoor toilets

which have been said to work well in Europe.
Not so much in SF, tho.
Junkies use them to shoot up in, toilets got jammed and spilled over. Everytime they are cleaned out, they get filled up with all sorts of ....well, let's say..."stuff".
And right outside, the gutters are full of human waste.
On a warm day, the smell of urine hangs over areas of the city for miles.

Yes, I know what I am talking about, I lived and worked in SF until 2005.

[RKP5637]

55. I did a lot of traveling recently in the US, some to not the most

desirable areas. I had to use the restrooms several times in bad parts of town and they were all locked or not available in stores, gas stations. Then it dawned on me it could be from people using them for drugs.

[dixiegrrrrl]

58. drugs, or for sleeping, or for just trashing.

Sadly, it is common in some places.

[Luminous Animal]

61. Actually, we've never had free public toilets. Though, the toilets we have (and we still have them)

will take tokens given to the homeless by shelters and food banks, etc., They are self-cleaning, and clean themselves after each use. Really, there is no chance of them getting filled up with "stuff". The doors open automatically in 20 minutes. While that is time to shoot up, it's not time to hang out and shoot up.

The public toilets have been a great success (Paris has similar), they rarely become jammed or spill over and the gutters are not filled with human waste.
What you are smelling on a warm days are the municipal sewers which carry waste from the entire city. Yes, I know what I am talking about. I have lived in San Francisco since 1987.

[dixiegrrrrl]

72. I stand corrected about the 25 cents fee for the toilets, but the ones I saw

on Mission and 16th and in that area WERE trashed, often AND the doors had been jammed open. One was across the corner from where I worked.

[MADem]

83. You must live or work in a nice neighborhood, Paris-toilet-wise, anyway. Those things are a problem.

Apparently, they've been a pain in San Francisco's ass since 1995! They do get filled up with stuff, the doors get jammed, and people go in them and hold the doors closed so others cannot use them. This article is from December of this past year and it paints a horrible portrait of those things, and suggests that a better solution--safer and more sanitary--is pay attended toilets. There are more pics at the link.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/nevius/article/It-s-time-to-raise-a-stink-over-public-toilets-2393868.php

It's time to raise a stink over public toilets
C.W. Nevius, Chronicle Columnist
Published 04:00 a.m., Saturday, December 10, 2011


San Francisco's free toilets have been in use since 1995
and have had constant maintenance and sanitary problems.
Friday December 9, 2011 Photo: Lance Iversen, The Chronicle / SF

Paris never smelled like this....how long can I hold my breath? The place smelled awful, the floor was wet, and there was something horrible in the toilet. Welcome San Francisco tourists!

The toilets were installed in 1995 and ever since have had maintenance problems. JCDecaux Co. was supposed to be able to maintain and sell advertisements on the public toilets. The advertising part works just fine. But that automated, self-cleaning part is a different story. JCDecaux is required to service each unit daily, but upkeep is spotty and a representative from the company did not respond to a request for comment.

...As other cities have found, the automated route just hasn't provided much help. In 2004, Seattle spent $5 million to install automated public toilets. Four years later, lamenting that they had become so dirty and dangerous that even street people refused to use them, the city put them up for sale on eBay.

A supervised bathroom is worth a try because there's clearly a need....Hilliard's idea is to place one unit, with multiple stalls, in a central location. With full-time attendants, it should be a facility that both tourists and street people would be eager to use. The group hopes to have a prototype working by this summer.

As for the smell of poop and pee in the streets, apparently that's the fault of low flow toilets. And some think the cure (bleach) is as bad as the disease...

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Low-flow-toilets-cause-a-stink-in-SF-2457645.php

Skimping on toilet water has resulted in more sludge backing up inside the sewer pipes, said Tyrone Jue, spokesman for the city Public Utilities Commission. That has created a rotten-egg stench near AT&T Park and elsewhere, especially during the dry summer months.

The city has already spent $100 million over the past five years to upgrade its sewer system and sewage plants, in part to combat the odor problem.

Now officials are stocking up on a $14 million, three-year supply of highly concentrated sodium hypochlorite - better known as bleach - to act as an odor eater and to disinfect the city's treated water before it's dumped into the bay. It will also be used to sanitize drinking water.

That translates into 8.5 million pounds of bleach either being poured down city drains or into the drinking water supply....Not everybody thinks it's a good idea.

[Kaleva]

10. Watching people poo on escalators isn't my idea of a good job.

[loli phabay]

12. i wonder if they poo on them as they are moving, but seriously johnny blues would solve it.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

17. they didn't solve it in Seattle

the homeless just vandalized them. I actually saw a bum pissing on the side of one rather than go inside.

[Initech]

48. Yeah it's a pretty crappy job.

[CreekDog]

76. Won't work. they'll need to fence off the escalators at night

After the system closes for the night.

I mean, we could end homelessness, it's not rocket science but since we won't, we just need more fences and/ or gates.

(a BART rider)

[Serve The Servants]

3. That is absolutely disgusting.

And it makes me think of the movie C.H.U.D.

[loli phabay]

5. OMG flashback, i saw that movie absolutely donks ago, gonna have to netflix it

[Serve The Servants]

8. I remember hearing a while back

That Rob Zombie was going to do a remake, but I think it got squashed.

[loli phabay]

9. you cant remake a classic like that, now a sequel im fine with but only if tiffany stars in it

saw her in a piranha movie and it sucked but was funny, also some snake movie and she used the immortal line of "i think were alone now there dosent seem to be anyone around" almost wet myself.

[badtoworse]

32. If you liked C.H.U.D., you'll really like "Street Trash".

[Raine]

4. Geeesh can't they install some port-a-potties or something! nt

[Scootaloo]

6. Nope! We have to punish the homeless, remember?

And that means telling them "hold it or face arrest!" Putting toilets out would "just encourage them" yanno

[RandySF]

20. If you do that.

Someone will have to remove the pile of needles inside. And not many people who use it will do so properly.

[backscatter712]

49. OK, how about porta-potties and injection clinics.

Since we've got two problems: IV drug abuse and people shitting on the escalator.

Make some bathrooms available, and make a place available where drug users can shoot up in a safe place, where trained medical personnel can intervene in case of OD, without fear of arrest, with sterile needles.

But nooooo, we have to punish the homeless - why, the piles of shit everywhere shows that the policy of denying access to bathrooms to make the homeless go elsewhere works!

[RandySF]

75. I would support clinics on one condition.

That users be referred to rehab.

[backscatter712]

77. I'm sure that clinic staff would encourage the users to go to rehab.

Though at the same time, trying to force users into rehab would defeat the purpose of those places. I'm sure the places will be happy to get a user interested in beating the addiction some help, but forcing them will just create problems and cause these people to go back to the alleys and subway stations..

If you're addicted and going to shoot up, best to do so in a safe place, with medical personnel ready to help you if you have an OD, with clean needles, a place to properly dispose of the dirties, where cops aren't going to hassle you (otherwise, why would you show up?) and somewhere where you're not bothering people while shooting up.

[Luminous Animal]

62. We have public toilets and the homeless are supposed to receive tokens in order to

be able to use them for free but I am not sure how aggressive the city is in handing out those tokens.

They really should have 1) allowed everyone to use them for free so that entry does not rely on whether or not a homeless person has a token; 2) installed a lot more than they did.

[MADem]

85. Those toilets are a failure, though, at least according to two published comments on the matter.

I posted one article upthread, here's another: http://sfpublicpress.org/news/2011-04/sex-drugs-and-filth-plague-city-sponsored-public-restrooms

Sex, drugs and filth plague city-sponsored public restrooms


The inside of the restroom near City Hall before cleaning contains all manner of detritus: hypodermic needles, condoms, excrement and assorted trash. Photo by Jason Winshell/SF Public Press.


A worker attends to the supposedly automatic cleaning equipment before manually cleaning the inside of the restroom. Photo by Jason Winshell/SF Public Press.

...But the network of city toilets isn’t as clean as city officials had first promised. What was intended to be a service for poor residents without access to basic hygiene, as well as a relief for tourists, has become a health hazard for undaunted patrons and the staff who clean and maintain them.

Robot janitors not enough

The facilities are designed to clean themselves during a 55-second automatic cycle in which a cleaning solution is sprayed on all inside surfaces. But the bathrooms weren’t designed for the job of cleaning up after drug users who leave needles and the other paraphernalia behind, or those who disable the doors by wedging them shut from the inside. The loads of garbage and human waste that end up everywhere often remain, soaked with detergent, until a human janitor bags them.

Public Works spokeswoman Chan insisted that the city was not responsible for the maintenance, cleanliness or safety of the facilities. Rather, it is written into the city’s 20-year contract with JCDecaux that the company must keep the facilities in a “clean, graffiti-free, safe, and first-class condition” by providing “the necessary personnel to assure the maintenance of Automatic Public Toilets.”

As a result the facilities, which frequently go in and out of service because of mechanical trouble, trash or police activity, are shuttered by the city. For residents of low-income, high-density neighborhoods such as the Tenderloin, that means the closure of the only bathrooms available to the public at night.

[Luminous Animal]

89. You have linked to a right wing publication. Congratulations. Notice that the caption of the 1st pic

accurately describes BEFORE cleaning. And note, that these facilities are self-cleaning and hand cleaned. It is clear to me (given that there is paper in the bowl) that this a picture taken before any cleaning. Yes, there are some problems but, overall, these public restrooms put us on the level of European cities of having street level public toilets that tourists and residents can rely.

[MADem]

90. Oh, so the SF Chronicle is a right wing publication, too? Huffpo? Come off it.

Please. There are facts in all the articles I have posted, and PICTURES as well.

There is NO way that the self-cleaning feature can accomodate needles, garbage, condoms, etc.

Six broken toilets out of ten is a problem. And seventeen broken ones out of 25 is even worse. These things just don't work when the public is not respectful of them and that's the problem--people are not respectful of them, and they deliberately vandalize and abuse them.

I think the attendant paradigm might be a solution, or those free pooplets.

Here--ANOTHER article from the "not right wing" SFChronicle--since you're playing the "I don't like your source" game:

A Chronicle spot-check of the city's 25 most famous public facilities found that most are plagued by social and mechanical ills.

Minor to major glitches included doors that didn't open, sinks with no water and a shooting stream of soapy water at floor level.

Just eight of the 25 self-cleaning pay toilets -- the nation's first -- were trouble-free.

http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/S-F-s-street-toilets-run-from-gamy-to-great-2822855.php

It is quite clear that this problem is an ongoing one, and isn't getting better with time. If things were wonderful, why is the city looking at alternatives? For idle amusement?

And on edit--that right wing 'source' tracks back, if you pull the string, to "spot.us" which is a community based reporting enterprise that distributes overlooked stories. They share material with Mother Jones, NYT, LAT--a shitload of media outlets, from left to right and in between. So I think your accusation is a bit jive, there: http://spot.us/pages/examples

http://spot.us/pitches/861-urban-outcasts-san-franciscos-ongoing-housing-and-homelessness-crisis/updates/968-sex-drugs-and-filth-plague-city-sponsored-public-restrooms

[Luminous Animal]

93. Yes. The Chronicle is a right wing joke. "The City" has to look for alternatives

because the stupid private contract will expire in one and a half years.

[MADem]

95. No--because seventeen toilets out of twenty five "NOT WORKING" is a tourist problem.

To say nothing of a problem for residents in the city.

What was supposed to provide a "Parisian flair" ended up providing a pile of shit and annoyance in highly trafficked areas. They are an EMBARRASSMENT to the city.

The "stupid private contract" worked thusly--the city pays nothing, the toilet company sells ads. The toilet company kicks back money to the city based on the money they get from the ads and the cost of using the non-working toilets. The idea was to provide pooping/peeing for the public AT NO COST to the city. The ads bit is working great, it's the pooping and peeing that aren't working. The city's reputation is suffering because of these things. Prostitutes are using the things to turn tricks, people are using and leaving needles--childish vandals are trashing the things "because they can," and this is just not getting better with time--no matter how much you want to whistle past the graveyard on this matter.

You can play the sunny optimist all you'd like, but these stories are not anecdotal. The things were a nice experiment, but the people were just not respectful of them. They abused them and made them unworkable for everyone.

This is fact, no matter how hard you try to spin the situation.

[Luminous Animal]

97. Again. The right wing Chronicle will do whatever they can to remove a public service....

The contract is running out so the reporting on how "horrible" these public toilets are is ramping up. The right wing wants to make sure that we all "know" that public toilets are a blight and a "failure" so that we won't take on the civic burden of providing a public service.

[MADem]

98. You are flailing, now. Why in the world would anyone in the "right wing" want to shut these money

makers down? They are a corporate gold mine, even in their shitty -- and that's meant in the full sense of the word -- state. You're making no sense at all.

They cost the city NOTHING. People pay for the service when it works. The corporation gets a great deal of money from the advertising displayed on the things.

The city MAKES money off the ads--they get a kickback from the corporation.

The problem with these crappers is that they DON'T work. It's the city, not the newspaper, that has come to grips with this. The newspaper is simply reporting what the city already knows. Even though they've brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars to the city in ad revenue alone, they are not working FOR the city.

Your argument isn't cutting it. Facts are facts, and I've provided them. The things are unusable sewers. A new paradigm is needed, because some people who use these facilities are misusing them, trashing them and vandalizing them. That's the bottom line, and there's no "right wing" to it.

[Luminous Animal]

99. Because the contract is over in a year and a half. After that,the city has to take over and it will

cost the city. These "crappers" have worked and that is why for nearly 20 years there has been little bad press. Now that the contract is running out and the city will have to take over the expense, it's, "OMG, these things are vectors of disease and crime!"

[MADem]

102. The reason the company might not want to renew is because of the vandalism--ever think about that?

No one wants their bottom line cut into to the point where the profit margins become problematic or nonexistent.

This corporation operates thousands of toilets all over the world, and they've been doing this for over thirty years--they don't walk away from contracts in Paris and other cities, they are happy to renew because it's a win-win all around. They get all the advertising revenue from the dedicated areas that the city provides, and in exchange they maintain the toilets AND kick back money to the city as well. In most cities, they make a profit at this.

Are you quite sure of your facts, here--that the corporation doesn't want to partner with the city anymore? Do you have a link that describes the breakdown?

No corporation runs from a moneymaker. Clearly, the quarters and ad revenue aren't cutting it if the corporation refuses to renew the contract. Surely the city and the corporation would happily renew if everything was rosy, would they not?

And why would they--either the city or the corporation-- not want to renew? Well, vandalism, vandalism and more vandalism, perhaps? A requirement for biohazard teams to clean the facilities? The facilities not delivering, or delivering in unintended and antisocial ways?

Why would it "cost" the city, pray tell, if the corporation bowed out? They could sell the advertisements themselves, surely, and subcontract the toilet maintenance and cleaning--unless, of course, the maintenance costs are so out of line that the scheme is unprofitable due to vandalism...?

I don't think you have the sequence of events down, here.

Also, you talk about "little bad press" but a cursory search of Google has turned up pages of "bad press" starting with the early days of the scheme and continuing, regularly, to the present day. Not everyone, including social network reviewers, are "right wingers," surely?

[Egalitarian Thug]

107. Portables are not designed for, nor durable enough for continuous use like this. OTOH, we do need

infrastructure expenditures amounting to trillions of dollars in this nation and this would be a good place to put some of them.

Of course the prosperous would object because they know that if we just make it horrible enough, those people will eventually go bother someone else.

[Kalidurga]

7. Maybe they should reconsider letting the homeless go without shelter...

I think if they tried really hard to think of a solution they could come up with one. Then they could put in a porta potty maybe because sometimes people just gotta go even if they have a home they are trying to get to.

[Kaleva]

11. I remember reading about a lady who lead the police on a high speed chase.

When you gotta go, you gotta go.

[badtoworse]

33. An old girl friend of mine gave that as an excuse when she got stopped for speeding.

The cop said "next time, go squat in the weeds" and handed her a ticket.

[Zalatix]

13. A real Anglo-Saxon American would blame the homeless for this.

Do I even need the sarcasm smiley?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. Unless by shelter you mean "mental institution" that only goes so far

My girlfriend has been assaulted twice by San Francisco's urban savages, one of them wasn't even technically homeless - but had wandered off from a group home because she liked smoking crack better than living indoors.

A bed and a toilet doesn't even begin to address the issues with many of these characters.

The larger problem is when one refers to San Francisco's homeless you are referring to a spectacularly disparate groups ranging from teenaged runaways and gutter punks to hardcore junkies and psychiatric cases with a whole bunch of unique situations in-between. But housing assistance only goes so far when the underlying issue is substance abuse, mental illness or the inexplicable "cool to be homeless" punks.

[HiPointDem]

14. i saw the photo & don't see anything as horrifying as you say. looks like some paper, a fast-food

lid, and three brown bits that don't look like pooh to me. more like dirt, a leaf, or a bit of chocolate.

[loli phabay]

15. yeah i thought that as well, was expecting something much worse after the warning

[marmar]

28. Or maybe we need better housing and sanitary facilities for the homeless, n'est-ce pas?

nt

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

41. My office overlooks a little park...

There are no less than three public washrooms a block of this little park. One in a parking lot, one in the lobby of a building and one in a food court. The drunk and crackhead men who loiter there piss on a brick wall instead of availing themselves of the nearby facilities. The drunk and crackhead women on the other hand seem to be able to stumble to one of the nearby washrooms.

In Seattle I saw it get even more vulgar as a homeless man was urinating on the SIDE of a public washroom.

Shelter and amenities doesn't even begin to address the behavior of the cracked out and insane.

[RandiFan1290]

29. I wish more on the right were as honest

to admit that Saudi Arabia and Iran are countries they wold like the US to emulate.

[2ndAmForComputers]

56. I'll chip in for the one-way plane ticket.

[RandySF]

18. I hate getting off at Civic Center or going upstairs.

It feels like a scene from the Walking Dead.

[NuttyFluffers]

25. it is really depressing.

nearby the flagella of poverty known as 6th street and the tenderloin. beautiful civic buildings nearby, but so much sadness right next to it. and there's never enough help. there can't be. there's so much need. and the destitute keep coming, from our nice weather to other cities bussing them away to us.

homeless and poverty needs to have a cohesive action from all of us, federal on down, not just regional powers. and this current america doesn't seem to be ready for that sort of commitment. so it will continue, and no simple solution will do more than be a band-aid.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Oh, those poor people having to experience that 'unpleasant aroma'. Well, if you tolerate

a society where homelessness is endemic, then unpleasant aromas are probably the least of your worries.

Jesus H. Christ - I'd better go to sleep now.

[loli phabay]

21. i dont think the smell is the problem, its probuably a health hazard having poop in the escalators

faecal matter is not something you really want to be getting thrown up by these and then ingested.

[coalition_unwilling]

22. I was responding to the text of the article:

All those biological excretions can gum up the wheels and gears of BART's escalators, shutting them down for long periods of extended repairs, increasing station cleaning costs and creating an unpleasant aroma for morning commuters. (emphasis added)

Of course the real point I was making was somewhat larger than unhealthy aromas.

[4th law of robotics]

31. Part of having a first world nation and paying taxes

is the reasonable assumption that you don't have to live in human filth.

[coalition_unwilling]

34. Now that we've heard your implied defense of petit bourgeois

sensibilities, part of having a first-world nation and paying taxes is that you don't have a huge homeless population. I guess the facts of this story demonstrate that the U.S. is no longer a first-world nation.

[4th law of robotics]

35. Ah so not wanting to be surrounded by shit is "bourgeois"

I take it then that you do want to live in human excrement?

[coalition_unwilling]

36. Um, yeah, not wanting to be surrounded by shit is the

essence of the 'bourgeois' (middle-class) mindset.

As for your straw-man, no need to reply as you have now joined the illustrious ranks of my Ignore list.

Have a nice life or whatever.

[4th law of robotics]

37. Fascinating

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 09:16 AM - Edit history (1)

You deride someone for wanting to avoid something then become furious when they ask if that means you don't want to avoid that same thing.

I suppose consistency in an argument is also bourgeois.

/or more likely you didn't expect me to reply that way, realized how silly you sounded, and "rage-quit" to avoid looking more foolish.

[Quantess]

79. If that's all it takes to get on someone's ignore list

then he or she already has half of DU on ignore.

[loli phabay]

84. seems people use the ignore thing if they lose an argument, i jsut dont get it

[Quantess]

101. That person probably just needed a nap.

Looks to me like they got upset over nothing. Some people come here wanting to fight, and expecting that everyone else wants to fight. Some people come here for discussion, which is not the same thing as fighting. Not everything on DU needs to be an argument, or that one person is comepletely correct and the other person is completely wrong. Especially not between progressives and/or democrats.

Peace!

[4th law of robotics]

103. I'm sure that half of DU is really suffering

from being on this individuals ignore list.

Pity us.

[Yeah Its Spin]

26. SHUT IT DOWN!!!11

[liberal N proud]

27. Maybe they should provide facilities for the homeless

I don't know where they thought the homeless were taking a shit.

[coalition_unwilling]

30. No, providing facilities for the homeless would just be too common-sense. The

Last edited Fri Jul 27, 2012, 03:35 AM - Edit history (1)

tone in this article of outraged bourgeois sensibility ("unpleasant aroma for morning commuters&quot really says it all, imho.

Barbara Ehrenreich published this wonderful article about how Occupy Wall Street middle-class kids had discovered what it was like being homeless precisely because of the biological imperatives and urban America's heartlessness. Wish I had bookmarked the article.

[MineralMan]

38. Solution: Provide public toilet facilities.

The US is very poor about providing public toilet facilities. Extremely so in our major cities. That could be corrected. In the interim, porta-potties could be used. Problem solved.

[Kalidurga]

39. No kidding. Try finding a restroom in Downtown Minneapolis...

They are around, but you have to know where they are. They are mostly in the retail stores like Macy's. They used to have some in the skyway. They shut down the one in Gavadi(sp) Commons on the third floor. But, that is ok you can go another block away to the food court and find a bathroom by the Chinese fast food restaurant.

[MineralMan]

40. It's the same in almost all large American cities.

There's no place to go, unless you're very familiar with the city. It's an embarrassment.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. That raises its own issues

Keeping them sanitary, keeping them from being vandalized and keeping them from being garrisoned by junkies and the Larry Craig's of the world is damn near impossible.

When I worked for a major retailer we couldn't keep assholes from wandering into the bathroom with t-shirts and flushing them down the toilet to deliberately clog them causing a flood.

We also got sued and facing a Texas civil jury had to settle after some pervert who had been banned from the store jerked off in front of a child.

Unless people are going to tolerate jackbooted enforcement to keep the said conveniences half way civilized it just opens a whole new barrel of problems.

[MineralMan]

44. I see. So the homeless will just have to crap in the corner.

OK, then, Sen Sobchak. You have it your way.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

45. Fine, explain how you will prevent the public washrooms from being destroyed,

New facilities that will be permanently out of service aren't exactly an improvement.

[MineralMan]

46. Perhaps it all needs to go a bit farther.

Perhaps we need to fix the reason those people are crapping in public places. Whaddya think? In the meantime put in some portapotties, and replace them daily with freshly cleaned ones. It would be cheaper than the cleanup bill they're facing now.

The answer of doing nothing is no answer at all. I suggest we do something and keep trying until we get it right.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

47. The solution requires confronting some uncomfortable issues

Ultimately a whole lot of people need to either be institutionalized or incarcerated. But the left flails uncontrollably at the suggestion there isn't a god given right to be an intoxicated public nuisance and the right doesn't want to pay for anything.

It is both a grand consensus and unbreakable impasse all in one.

[MineralMan]

70. So, you think the solution is to institutionalize or imprison these

homeless people. I am totally in awe of your amazing progressive qualities.

[unapatriciated]

53. Damn, MM I'm proud of you today.

who'd a thunk.

[MineralMan]

71. I've spent a few thousand hours volunteering in

a homeless shelter. I have no patience with people who just want not to see homeless people. None.

[Luminous Animal]

64. We have had public toilets since 1995 but they cost money to use...

the homeless are supposed to get tokens in order to use them but I suspect outreach to provide tokens isn't all that great.

So, for the past 15 years, we've had untrashed and clean toilets on our city streets. They are self-cleaning and the doors stay closed for only 20 minutes.

[loli phabay]

86. just wondered why 20 minutes, seems a long time.

[Luminous Animal]

87. To catch up on some reading... I don't know. 20 minutes seems too much

and then I think of my dad and other men that I have known and perhaps 20 minutes is just short of enough.

[loli phabay]

92. yeah but in the public crapper you try to get in and out without getting attacked

cant imagine sitting there reading the financial times or sports illustrated.

[MADem]

88. I hate to keep confronting you on this, but you're offering an inaccurate view of the situation.

Those toilets in SF are such a problem that they might not be renewed when their contract is up. People are pushing for other alternatives, like "round the clock" attendant facilities or composting toilets, AKA "pooplets" which are discussed in these articles:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/06/pooplets-coming-to-a-sidewalk-near-you_n_950579.html

http://www.newsytype.com/10997-pooplets-homeless-eco-toilets/

According to the Bay Citizen, pooplets will cost the city $40,000 to $50,000 each. They will be free to use, and the first full wave of pooplets is expected to be available by the 2013 America’s Cup yacht races. The first model is expected by spring 2012. Whether the typical yachting fan will use small public toilets with translucent walls remains to be seen.

There's a video of one at this link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/08/composting-toilets-pooplet-report_n_1137963.html

[Luminous Animal]

91. Yes, in fact, I was a vocal advocate against this private contract. BUT, they have served their

purpose and it is time to move on. Since 1995 hundreds of thousands of tourists have used these facilities and, while not perfect, offer relief.

So, I am not offering an inaccurate view. I am offering a realistic view as it stands.

[MADem]

96. When more of these expensive 20 minute houses of prostitution are broken than work, it is time to

move on.

Taking a crap shouldn't be a "crap shoot," to turn a phrase. And that's what it is with these things.

Perhaps the "attendant" model will be a better fit. It will provide several jobs, at any rate. I hope they'll design them so that the attendants can work in a safe environment and not be subjected to abuse or attack.

[Luminous Animal]

63. We have them but they cost money (25¢ or 50¢) and the homeless are supposed to receive tokens...

Most likely their is a failure of getting enough tokens to those who need them. I really think they should have been made free to use from the start.

Self-cleaning and the doors only stay closed when in use for 20 minutes.

[JVS]

80. I've seen those and they're pretty good, but I don't know if they'd stand up well to vandalism.

[Luminous Animal]

81. We've had them since 1995. The same ones and they still in good shape.

[marlakay]

43. My husband is retired from Bart

Drove trains for 30 years. He says he could tell a ton of stories about the homeless or people on the streets doing things. He would find homeless and or drunks on his last train asleep all the time. Either he or Bart cops depending would have to make sure they left the area of final stations.

All of the bathrooms got locked up years ago for safety reasons even during the day in the sf stations.

[backscatter712]

52. Googling, I believe the bathrooms were locked in response to 9/11.

Christ, we're over a decade past that event, and we're still in a state of paranoia.

Well, when the stations don't provide bathrooms, people shit on the escalators.

[Luminous Animal]

65. You are correct.

[marlakay]

105. From what I heard even when they were open

This was done by the drunks and homeless....

[lpbk2713]

50. Limbaugh got caught up in the gears?

Oh, never mind. Different kind of human waste.

[BOG PERSON]

51. resist commodity-time and the regimentation of everyday life

poop on escalators

[KamaAina]

57. Talk about a crappy commute

[slackmaster]

60. The good news is it was just human waste and not human remains

[barbtries]

66. why don't they have public restrooms

this is awful. i feel for the people who cannot even find a toilet.

[Luminous Animal]

67. We do, please see posts #61, #62, #63, #64.

[barbtries]

68. i did

commented first then read the entire thread. i think the suggestion of porta potties changed daily is the best idea and as noted, would be more economical than shutting down the escalators to clean up the shit.

[Luminous Animal]

69. I think making the few dozen self-cleaning bathrooms that already exhist free to use

would be better. These bathrooms are connected to the city sewer system self-clean and dry after every use. The doors stay closed for only 20 minutes while in use. Much better than a Porta-potty which is a visual blight and fills up throughout the day and allow people to lock themselves in for as long as they want.

[backscatter712]

74. Ironically, those BART stations do have restrooms - permanently closed and locked.

Due to 9/11 paranoia.

Getting those bathrooms working again can't be that hard.

But I suppose BART management wants people shitting on the escalator...

[TouchOfGray]

73. You know that sign that says please use the handrail?

Right, you know where that's been?

[RandySF]

78. The hayward station is not much better.

I used to get off at the Hayward station to go to work and it always smelled like a urinal.

[kestrel91316]

82. Across the vastness that is Los Angeles' Metro system,

I have only ever seen ONE public restroom (at the northern terminus of the Red Line), though I suspect there is another at Union Station downtown. I don't know where they expect commuters to relieve themselves. Let alone tourists, casual riders, and the homeless.

[Bonobo]

94. Why did they have to break before being cleaned properly.

A responsible management system would dictate a regular cleaning of the ENTIRE escalator BEFORE it broke. Surely there is the potential for gum, food and any number of things to fall into the escalator. That wouldn't be possible to clean by simply sweeping the outside of the escalator. It would require regular and periodic cleanings.

The fact that the escalators had to break before they were cleaned is an indictment of the management of BART. Frankly, it is disgusting and embarrassing that a modern city in the US should be THAT careless and dirty.

It would not happy in Japan where I live for any number of reasons, not the least being that a system would be in place to keep the escalators cleaned and checked regularly.

It is called PROPER MAINTENANCE. Grow up America before you hurt yourself some more.

[loli phabay]

100. maybe it just gets so much poop that they cant keepup

[marlakay]

106. If you knew Bart management

This would not surprise you at all. All they care about is long breaks and money. Management would talk employees into getting less raises, posting in paper how they were making too much then as soon as contract was over give themselves a big raise...

[Zyzafyx]

104. I thought Romney was in London