General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumspanader0
(25,816 posts)with tRump. Shame.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)leftstreet
(36,106 posts)or maybe I'm misreading your post
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)but the race was closer than it would have been without their help, that's certain.
askyagerz
(776 posts)To help trump win. And it obviously did work
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)by using Republican talking points and accusations against her in the primary - giving the media an excuse to say, "See, this is partisan. Democrats are saying these things about her, too. She's got problems in her own ranks."
By the time Trump turned his sights away from Cruz and Rubio to Hillary, she was already softened up and he just piled on with accusations that had already started to stick.
Nevertheless, she persisted and STILL beat his sorry ass.
Response to EffieBlack (Reply #21)
Post removed
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Did you even bother to read the indictment before you decided to try to turn this into a Hillary v. Bernie foodfight?
And, fyi - that's NOT how primaries always worked. You really should go read the indictment before you comment any further.
askyagerz
(776 posts)You're all still throwing food... Like I said nothing would have changed if you swap Hillary and Bernie. Hillary's people would have been just as fooled. That was the point. But if you want the Russians to continue to divide and conquer be my guest.
I have never tried to hurt any democrat and have always voted for whatever dem is on the ticket. I suspect most of us do. You're all letting the few speak for the majority... hmmm...
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Good Lord - take a breath and calm down. And then go read the indictment.
askyagerz
(776 posts)Hillary beating his sorry ass. Yeah I get a little defensive. Bernie doesn't deserve that. So i guess the question is why are you still talking like that? Because you have decided to stay divided. Just like they want
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I was talking about Trump, not Bernie.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)acrimony that Sanders and his campaign cultivated and allowed to fester against Hillary is unjustifiable.
Sanders and his campaign should have put a stop to that early on.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)Dear god, when will people wake the fuck up and smell the coffee and look at who did what on russian sanctions, etc.
I cant believe how complicated people make it.
global1
(25,242 posts)sheshe2
(83,746 posts)A name they took from a deceased DUer...not sure he would be thrilled with their using his name at a Russian /Bot site that trashed Hill with every Russian fed Conspiracy theory.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,325 posts)Was it the Russians who called her "the Debby downer of politics"?
Was it the Russians who said she was unfit to serve?
Was it the Russians who accused her of fomenting the assassination of Barack Obama?
Was it the Russians who posted memes calling her a liar about sniper fire?
Good grief
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)You might want to try a new joke, saying that one for the eleventy billionth time isn't clever or interesting, it's pathetic.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)There had long been a medley of bullshit Republican accusations against Hillary Clinton. There was Benghazi, murdering Vince Foster, whatever. None of those were advanced against her in the Democratic primaries. Bernie famously told her that he was sick of hearing about "your damn emails!" (Some of his supporters were disappointed that he didn't attack her on that score, but he took the high road.) Did any media outlet push that kind of rubbish with the claim that "Democrats are saying these things about her, too"? If so, it was a lie.
The criticisms that were actually lodged against her in the primaries turned on subjects like the Iraq War Resolution, single-payer health care, reinstating Glass-Steagall -- in other words, substantive policy issues. Did the nomination fight leave Hillary "softened up" for Trump's piling on those issues? Of course not. Hillary was being criticized from the left during the primary campaign and from the right during the general-election campaign.
The only exception I can think of was the TPP. That issue didn't fall neatly onto the left-right spectrum. Each major party had a significant internal division about it. Trump's position was closer to that of O'Malley and Sanders than was Clinton's. Maybe the debate about the TPP during the primary campaign helped Trump a little bit in the general. Even if that happened, though, it's not a basis for saying that the Democratic debates had to avoid all such issues. If the general election had been Trump versus Sanders, then Trump would have gotten a lot more mileage from Clinton's issue-based attacks during the primaries. That would have been unfortunate, but it's no basis for saying that Clinton was required to refrain from such attacks. It's perfectly proper for all the candidates to debate the issues.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)from day 1 he should have been saying, look, I have differences with Hillary on issues and policy but she is a good person and the slanders against her character are wrong, no one should believe them.
The fact that he didn't is why we have raving lunatics like the folks over at JPR, many of whom were erstwhile mostly sane DUers.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The minority of Sanders supporters who then refused to vote for Hillary were precisely those who were not influenced by Bernie's personal appeal. They focused instead on the substantive differences. Their reaction to Bernie's endorsement was not "Gee, maybe I should consider voting for Clinton despite our differences." It was, instead, to condemn Bernie for having sold out. At least one person speculated that Bernie made the endorsement out of fear of losing his position in the Democratic caucus -- as if, in a closely divided Senate, Harry Reid or Chuck Schumer would throw away a key vote out of spite.
During the general-election campaign, I was posting on JPR, as one of the minority of members there urging a vote for Clinton. I was reading the site just about every day. Based on my familiarity with the anti-Clinton posters there, I can state with complete confidence that there was nothing more Bernie could have done to win them over.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)and whether one of the Democratic candidates was a willing dupe for Russian collusion and could have done more to combat it.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The way I interpreted that post (if I've misinterpreted you, please correct me) was that there was something Bernie was supposed to have done about Russian involvement, and that his failure to do it was why some people, such as those at JPR, refused to vote for Clinton. I say that's absurd. The people who voted for Stein did so because of their disagreements with Clinton over issues and policy. I believe that, in weighing those disagreements more heavily than the horrors of Trump, they made a grievous error, but it's an error unrelated to (and not subject to correction by) anything Bernie might have said about the Russians.
Bernie's actual pitch to his supporters was to emphasize the progressive policy goals that would fare much better under Clinton than under Trump. That was obviously the right way to go. (It was why I voted for Clinton, despite my disagreements with her.) It's why the overwhelming majority of Bernie's primary supporters then joined him in voting for Clinton in the general.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)pitch because it was divisive. If you dont want to read the indictments, just say so. They are reality nowcriminal indictments. You dont get to rewrite history about his campaign.
marybourg
(12,622 posts)ananda
(28,858 posts)But the Russians touted him to hurt Clinton.
That was NOT his fault.
he was a willing participant and all his talk about corrupt HRC fell right in line
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)His milquetoast response to his supporters chanting lock her up and all the other nasty attacks will not be forgotten.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)supporters into raving lunacy against Hillary.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)It was Hillary vs. Bernie and things got awful.
So we were among the Russians' targets.
They supported Bernie because they wanted to sow chaos among us. And it worked.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)but not so effective with Sanders. Interesting theory.
askyagerz
(776 posts)To help trump in the end. Of course they would run propaganda on both sides. Anyone who thinks that the Russians wanted Sanders to win is lying to themselves. They would have helped a dead fish if it would have helped elect their puppet
Amsterdammer
(130 posts)...and most certainly a devicive tactic honed & perfected while Pukin' was head of KGB.
askyagerz
(776 posts)It's still working...
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)Demsrule86
(68,555 posts)win. Maybe he thought Trump could beat Sen. Sanders more easily...maybe the entire thing was to sow division and damage Hillary and help elect Trump and if that failed she would be damaged goods...I doubt we will ever know.
George II
(67,782 posts)...all the others, including Cruz, Rubio, and other republicans.
Here, directly from the indictment:
They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.
Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on politics in the USA and to use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trumpwe support them).
It's all there in black and white.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And they fell for - and spread the FB shit after the primary was over. Anyone who was suppressing the dem vote after the primary is an idiot or a bot.
leftstreet
(36,106 posts)The only 'Hillary haters' I encountered (in the real world) were GOPers and never-librals! voters
But I'd come online and find 'hillary hate' among normally Democratic party supporters. It was all very strange and I'll never really get it
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I was kind of shocked by political newbies being so sure they knew the score- because Wikileaks told them what t was. Have heard many college campuses had a similar or worse vibe. I met idiots who thought college would be free in 2017, HA! There was a hateful echo chamber and it was just exhausting and impossible to reason with.
George II
(67,782 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,006 posts)Identify the correct enemy please!
It's not terribly difficult!
Autumn
(45,062 posts)It was compiled from the Indictment by Law&Crime and posed here.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141989543
This is the link in the OP. A lot of interesting groups mentioned there. Some obvious, some not.
https://lawandcrime.com/trump/the-russians-apparently-infiltrated-these-hashtags-and-handles-in-the-2016-election/
tblue37
(65,336 posts)about weakening her for the general, not about helping Bernie win.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They used the Bernie campaign to divide democrats. I don't believe that Bernie was involved with the effort in any way.
Their goal was to divide us and demotivated some, it worked. I hooe that we are smarter during the future.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)"Their goal was to divide us and demotivated some, it worked."
Didn't matter if it was Bernie or Hillary. What mattered was getting us to fight among ourselves and lose faith in our Democracy.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)I think they wanted him to damage Clinton and to divide the Democrats. And that is what happened.
It's not his fault, but the result was just what the Russians wanted it to be.
You'd think we only dreamed DU wasn't supposed to keep re fighting the primary
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)doing everything in their power to primary them?
I wouldnt normally care, but there are Nazis and KGB agents in the WH . so
jesus christ
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Either they unwittingly bought the bot propoganda, or they are part of the propoganda.
mcar
(42,307 posts)It hasn't ended.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)n/t
FarPoint
(12,351 posts)Bernie was used......then again, Bernie used the Democratic Party ..
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)And yes, I've seen posts equating the campaigns.
Like 99% of the Bernie supporters on this board, I voted for HRC.
Like most of us, I hope he does not run again, but not because of this
news. He is too old, maybe still healthy and sharp, but too old to be
an attractive candidate. He is also innocent of collusion with the Russians.
I think the Russians were trying to hurt HRC more than "help" Bernie.
They wanted to sow division and it certainly worked.
George II
(67,782 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)No mention of how he was helped. Perhaps it will come out someday.
Interesting indictment, if you are a lawyer.....
George II
(67,782 posts)Specialists were instructed to post content that focused on politics in the USA and to use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trumpwe support them).
That's fairly explicit. Of course it doesn't go into all the evidentiary details, but I'm sure Mueller has all the background details and evidence. This is an indictment laying out the charges, not what would be used in the actual court case should it reach that point.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)Generic Brad
(14,274 posts)He has no stance on that?
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Generic Brad
(14,274 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)mcar
(42,307 posts)"I'm appalled that my campaign was used, however inadvertently, to promote Putin's campaign to undermine the sanctity of our democratic elections. I have asked the DOJ to conduct a full review of my campaign to determine if there was any collusion. I will immediately release my tax returns and all related financial and other information toward this goal."
mopinko
(70,088 posts)he should have smacked down the bernie bros, but he never said word one.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)You write, "he should have smacked down the bernie bros, but he never said word one."
Here are some facts about Bernie's response to those "Bernie Bros":
In an interview on CNNs State of the Union, Mr. Sanders disavowed the largely online group that has tried to raise him up by bashing Mrs. Clinton for being a woman.
I have heard about it. Its disgusting, Mr. Sanders said. Look, we dont want that crap. We will do everything we can, and I think we have tried. [Source: "Sanders addresses Bernie Bros, says he doesnt want support from sexists"]
His ability to smack them down was blocked by legal technicalities. (It turns out that a political candidate can't override the First Amendment and prohibit people from endorsing him with bogus arguments.)
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Not thrilled about the lack of transparency.
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)The Clinton campaign and the Sanders campaign each signed an agreement with the DNC.
In addition, the Clinton campaign signed a separate agreement that, for example, gave the Clinton campaign veto power over one or more DNC hires. I think it included the DNC's Communications Director.
Bernie's campaign sure as hell was not given the opportunity to sign that agreement.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)So how would he know what agreements hed be able to negotiate. Oh wait, probably not a great one becasue he didnt fundraise for them. Thats how shit works. If Hillary had leverage, its becasue she fundraised like hell for them. She tried to get a lot of senators and dem governors in too.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)It certainly wasn't disclosed until after she won the primary -- indeed, it was kept secret even then, and wasn't publicly known until Donna Brazile's book last year. But it was signed on August 26, 2015 and was definitely in effect. For a discussion and full text, see "Clinton Campaign Had Additional Signed Agreement With DNC In 2015". Key excerpts from the agreement between the DNC and Hillary for America (HFA):
2. With respect to the hiring of future DNC senior staff in the communications, technology, and research departments, in the case of vacancy, the DNC will maintain the authority to make the final decision as between candidates acceptable to HFA.
Bear in mind that the context here is not whether HFA was noble and selfless in helping the DNC raise money. Nor is the context here even the issue of whether it was reasonable for the DNC, in return, to make a secret arrangement to give the Clinton campaign extraordinary power over DNC operations, at a time when she was not the nominee and in fact not one single vote had been cast. Rather, the context is your assertion in #34 that Bernie "signed the same agreement with the DNC".
Apparently you're asking whether it's something he should have mentioned in connection with the Mueller indictments. I don't follow that connection, but, in any event, he did not sign the same agreement. The DNC most assuredly did not offer the Sanders campaign veto power over "the hiring of future DNC senior staff ...."
You're probably thinking of Tom Perez's statement that the DNC had a joint fundraising agreement with each campaign. The linked NPR article explains:
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And refusing to do any fundraising for the general- while using their funds for the primary. And he would have taken them, and made the best deal he could to utilize their help for the general should he have had the opportunity. He did a great deal to suppress fundraising for the DNC and misled people about what went on there allowing them to think- as Wiki propaganda falsely put out- that he was put at a disadvantage before he lost the primary.
Just as he allowed people to think Brazile favored Hillary w debate questions when she also sent them to him. The reason this is relevant today? He refuses to talk about how Russian influence favored him and aimed to divide the party- and many of his fans went along with it. His silence this week is damning. Like Trump, he cant admit that a portion of his support were bots.
Instead, he allows his supporters to believe the fake narrative that things were rigged against him even when it was revealed this week that the story was planted by Russians. Like it or not, the Russian propaganda is still being flung on his behalf. Its ugly to watch him allow this.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I'm not going to bother going through your vitriol and refuting point by point. Your silence concedes the actual subject we were discussing -- that, in 2015, before Clinton was the nominee, there was a secret agreement between her campaign and the DNC, that the agreement gave the Clinton campaign extensive power over DNC operations, and that nothing remotely comparable was ever offered to any of the other campaigns.
If you're perfectly OK with that arrangement because Russians Russians something Russians, fine, your choice. My consolation is that, because of the welcome although belated disclosure of this travesty, it's unlikely to be repeated next cycle.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)You accuse me of lying when you cant refute a single one of the bullshit propaganda that Sanders was happy to benefit from- largely AFTER he had lost. You cant refute a single part and make it all about a smart agreement she made when Sanders did jack shit to help the party he used. Instead he worked tirelessly to damage the DNC while Looking the other way knowing Russians were helping him- and downplaying it as an issue.
All that after he knew all of that would help Trump becasue he had lost the primary. Thats on him. And youve no defense. Just a silly and totally legal agreement for her to have more power if she was the nominee. Inconsequential to any other candidate except Trump. She raised a fuck ton of money and spent a lot of time and effort on downticket and governors races. That Sanders hates the idea of fundraising itself, does not actually make any of this a bad thing. If he had any integrity, hed never take DNC money. But he did.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Please refer to my post #124 and try actually reading the excerpt that I posted, even if it upsets your comfortably self-satisfied worldview.
To take just the first numbered paragraph, the agreement expressly required the DNC to hire a Communications Director "identified as acceptable to HFA." Furthermore, it required that this hire be completed "no later than September 11, 2015...."
Clinton was not the nominee as of that date and had zero chance of becoming the nominee by that date.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)While watching others do jack shit for the party. Someone had to step up, and I cant blame her for wanting a reward for it. Its not as if Sanders had any plan to do anything supportive for the DNC, that much was always clear.
But the lies he allowed to stand after he lost will always taint him. It became obvious that he didnt mind treacherous lies if it helped boost his image- long after that was the only thing he had left.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)At least, when I pointed out a falsehood, I gave the specifics and presented proof.
Anyone with a keyboard can sling smears about "treacherous lies" that "he allowed to stand". Evidence just slows you down.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)He allowed all the misunderstanding about the Wiki email shit alone aimed at the DNC to stand too. He knew it was happening, and he knew it after he had lost becasue the damning emails occurred after he lost. Why the DNC would have anything to do with him is beyond me. But you know, April Ryan just had to grab headline slamming the DNC too, I guess theres money in it.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I honestly have no idea what horrible scandal you're talking about.
I did a few minutes' research and came up empty. My work didn't go far enough to qualify as due diligence, but it was as much as I'm willing to do.
If you choose to continue this subtopic, I'd like to see at least one link, along with a specification of the act or omission by Bernie that shows, uh, whatever it is it shows. Otherwise, since we both know you despise Bernie Sanders and you're not going to change your mind, we can just agree to disagree.
Have a pleasant holiday weekend.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Suffice to say, once he lost the primary he fucked up big time. Again and again.
Cha
(297,160 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)with innocuous statements that don't, as Ari says, address the issue fully and honestly. This matter isn't going away and will only garner more attention. Anyone looking to run for anything, including the SEnator, is going to have to ante up.
Cha
(297,160 posts)Thank you, Me!
I don't know how I missed your post before.. just happened to see it now.
Exactly right, "it's not going away".. and it's getting more attention that he isn't acknowledging it now.
Don't who would have advised him on that.
Link to tweet
A pertinent question.. that needs to be addressed by sanders.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)(And all the other candidates). Social media campaigning somehow manages to be even slimier and corrupt than regular campaigning.
BannonsLiver
(16,370 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Very strange.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Sanders was worried about the Iran deal and tRump's blustering about backing out.
https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-statement-on-new-iran-north-korea-russia-sanctions
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Chemisse
(30,809 posts)karynnj
(59,503 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)sheshe2
(83,746 posts)One Independent and one Republican.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Trump, Bernie, and another Republican.
Its not surprising why the Russians helped him. smh
I forgot to include Trumpie. Ya ...pretty sure the other was Cruz...to lazy to check... Okay I checked it was Rand Paul.
Hmmm
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)than coincidental that both Trump and Bernie were against sanctions, and both got help from Russia...
Hmmm is right.
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)I read his statement, but he had to know he would be the lone dissenter in
the Senate, so I don't really understand his vote.
Everyone else voted for the sanctions and still tRump won't impose them.
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)Yes it was.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)He explained it when he voted against it. But, yeah, just keep pushing the talking points.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)Iran sanctions could jeopardize the Iran deal. Note they, not the Russian ones were implemented. Bernie explained his vote when he cast it
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)....but not to Bernie. Or you, so it appears
karynnj
(59,503 posts)He voted FOR the Russian sanctions before the Iran amendment.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Response to BoneyardDem (Reply #25)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)If so then I guess Im a purist.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I also think that endangering the Obama administration's Iran deal was a bad idea.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Or Bernie decided that Iran was more important than fighting for US Democracy.
Often there is a choice in votes...Bernie chose to ignore the need of the USA, the hacking, the assault on our democracy. He chose poorly. Iran nuclear deal would have had many other future avenues for addressing, look at what we have with Trump. Giving Trump and Russia a pass and the message that they should move full steam ahead because everything is more important than our Democracy. You are admittedly not siding with your own country's dire needs. Your choice of course, but for the group that constantly touts they would never vote for the lesser of two evils, they just assessed what they assumed was the lesser of two evils.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)How about you stop attacking a figure half the party adore? Youre doing the Russians work for them.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Not even close...unless you are going to tout the flawed and biased polls that have been debunked a dozen times already.
More than half of the party preferred Hillary, but that didn't seem to stop the Bernie fans from criticizing, insulting, and undermining her. I remember.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)We're being attacked at every turn by the Republicans and we're only 9 months away from a make or break midterm that with a possible Trump impeachment and an aging SCOTUS could determine the future of the country for decades to come.
And what are you doing? Attacking Bernie Sanders and his supporters..
Maybe you should have a good think about your contribution to the actual war we're fighting.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)The USA doesn't thank you. I'd like to move in a different direction than being told to bow down at the Bernie altar.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Great, I can only hope the number of people like yourself is small enough to not have any impact in November otherwise we're completely screwed.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)JI7
(89,247 posts)And well, the country. So it's similar to trump supporters.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's like listening to a brick talk.
denvine
(799 posts)This doesn't give my much hope for the mid-terms!
jalan48
(13,860 posts)PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Us, not Putin and the Cozy Bears.
getagrip_already
(14,736 posts)The fact is he appears to have encouraged divvision, even after the primaries. He certainly didn't tamp it down.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Ego transformed him from a thoughtful and progressive candidate into an angry, doddering old simpleton.
getagrip_already
(14,736 posts)he doubt they will push his candidacy again in 2020? It makes perfect sense. If he is the nominee, it will be simple to divide us again. Just look at the responses. There are probably trolls in here playing both sides right now.
Will he acknowledge and disavow that? Or just run with it?
We need a new batch of contenders. Please, nobody from 2016.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)could be OK to run again, considering his record seems to be clean and he gained very little media exposure last time.
getagrip_already
(14,736 posts)I don''t have anything against him, but think we can do better.
FSogol
(45,481 posts)You are behind on your reading:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/12813600
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Do you have an example? I seem to remember him campaigning his ass off for Dems in 2016.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)...is a relative measure of effort and engagement. But yes, by some people's standards and definition of working hard, it appears that the assertion might be reasonable.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)I needed a nap after working my butt off feeding the cat.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Well, yes, there was some division. There was division among Bernie's supporters between the overwhelming majority of us, who agreed with him and voted for Hillary, and a dissident minority, who denounced him for "selling out" by endorsing her and making speeches on her behalf.
I don't know what more he could have done to tamp that down. Some people were just not going to vote for Hillary Clinton no matter what Bernie or anyone else said.
George II
(67,782 posts)....until Labor Day.
Response to George II (Reply #102)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)My recollection is that he campaigned more for the Democratic ticket than anyone else, except for those actually on the ticket and their immediate family members.
I see the doughnut and you say the glass is half empty.
George II
(67,782 posts)....not Labor Day.
There are no logs or itineraries available, so we'll never know.
getagrip_already
(14,736 posts)If you are a bernie supporter, I have no doubt, and I mean this sincerely, that you absolutely believe what you said. Just as I believe pretty much the opposite.
I don't think either position is fully defensible, nor truly wrong. It's a case where more than one opinion can be correct.
My lens was comparring bernies campaign efforts for hillary in the perspective of hillaries campaign efforts for obamma. In that lens, bernie fell far short.. Sure, he campaigned, though a lot of his effort was down ticket.
I just don't believe he was at all effective in convincing either his supporters or undecideds. And, I believe he could have done a lot more.
Now I'm sure his supporters don't see that. I understand that. I don't have a problem with your position.
I also have no doubt that a lot of the noise I heard from his supporters who became bernie or busters were actually bots. They were all over this and other progressive sites. They are probably still here.
So thats why I said he didn't try, and actually ended up inciting some of his supporters to be busters. You don't see that, and thats fine.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and if I recall correctly she went on a bus tour with Obama and enthusiastically campaigned with and for Obama from then through Election Day. So did Bill Clinton.
On the other hand in 2016 Sanders didn't begin campaigning for Clinton until about six weeks after the Convention, and made few appearances for Clinton. The only disclaimer is that in 2016 the Convention was at the end of July, in 2008 it was late in August.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)when Hillary got dehydrated on 9/11.
getagrip_already
(14,736 posts)She needs a new career. Just sayin.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Because according to the indictment, those groups were targeted just as hard, but no one was targeted as strongly as the MAGA hat wearing motherfuckers.
Demsrule86
(68,555 posts)Sander's fan. I would vote for him in a general but not in a primary. However, just because the Russians favored Sen Sanders as well as Trump does not mean Sen. Sanders participated. It means the Putin level of Hatred and yes fear of Hillary was very high. I do not believe Sen. Sanders participated. He would have gone straight to the FBI in my opinion. I may not support his candidacy in 20 ( for a number of reason that would bore you no doubt) during the primary (of course I would vote for him in an general election) but I do not believe he would betray this country.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I've often disagreed with you in the past, and no doubt will do so in the future... but I appreciate your rising above the black-and-white thinking that's all too common in online discussions.
On both sides of the Clinton-Sanders divide, there were people whose attitude was "My candidate is perfect, no criticism has any validity, but the other candidate is Evil Incarnate, and any criticism must be supported regardless of its basis." I'm glad to see that at least one person who disagrees with Bernie on many issues can rise above that kind of simplification.
I disagree with Hillary on many issues and I try to do the same thing.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Your both sides do it distortion is totally bogus. It wasnt both sides ascribing good and evil. No one claimed Hillary was perfect and above reproach. We know who was deemed evil and who was deemed good. The Criminal indictments should clear that up for you, too. They helped Bernies smear campaign against Hillary. She was the target. That is a proven fact.
Demsrule86
(68,555 posts)things,we do agree on the big things. I don't believe Sen. Sanders had anything to do with this. He would have gone to the FBI. I look forward to many spirited discussions where I gently try to show you the error of your ways...and you reciprocate in kind.
LonePirate
(13,417 posts)I am glad he is denouncing the Russian involvement but he needs to address its impact on his campaign and on Clinton. His complete omission of mentioning that is quite telling and certainly tarnishes his image. Yes, even if he received assistance which he did not cultivate or want, he should have at least mentioned it.
meadowlander
(4,394 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)certain quarters, and I don't think I need to name names.
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)that Russia was trying to put Trump, not Sanders, in the White House. By not attacking Sanders, Russia was going after loyal Democrats who would never vote for a Republican, much less Trump, to get them to vote for Sanders instead of Hillary.
babylonsister
(171,057 posts)realFedUp
(25,053 posts)Maybe it's like having a crush on David Cassidy....
enid602
(8,615 posts)You know the Donald is in deep dark trouble when even Bernie concedes the Russia Investigation might be worthwhile.
Cha
(297,160 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)and there will be a continual call for him to address this matter truthfully but not holding out hope...that address will probably be found with those tax returns. It also makes me wonder about that unaccounted for 10 million.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)Most of Bernie's supporters voted for Hillary in the general. Sadly the Russians knew that some Bernie supporters were susceptible to "Never Hillary" propaganda based on their unhappiness with the political system. I hope Bernie's followers don't get tagged with the Russian shill label because most of us weren't on the "Never Hillary" train and voted for her and other Democrats in 2016.
George II
(67,782 posts)BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)waiting for all the reasons why he was right to do so
Johnny2X2X
(19,059 posts)More damage was done in the primaries than the GE.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Weve had it confirmed that Russia invested heavily into dividing us, so how do people respond? By renewing the attacks.
We definitely either have Russian trolls here or a few really stupid people.