The more I think about yesterdays indictments, the more I realize their importance.

[panader0]

tRumps claims of hoax are gone. Crimes were committed. The house of cards will begin to crumble.
He's having a very bad weekend. R's in Congress are panicking. Mueller and Rosenstein are
much more safe than they were. For Donnie to try and remove them now would be
nearly impossible. More indictments are on the way. The nervous limbo that we were
in is over. The investigation is healthy and strong and is beginning to gain speed.
Thank you Mr. Mueller and your excellent group of investigators.

[malaise]

1. Get thee to the greatest page

Very very important day yesterday

[BigmanPigman]

57. Very important day tomorrow and everyday afterwards until

Putin and his well laid plans are stopped and even after that. Malcolm Nance said on MSNBC that now that Russia knows the FBI, etc are onto him they won't stop. In fact they have only begun. Their plan was over 5 years in the making and now they have ALREADY moved to plans B, C and D. This IS NOT OVER. Putin is emboldened and he hates us. Fux Ruse and the division in America has proven to be very strong. This article is long but very good and should be read and shared. Americans are divided and have been for generations and a simple change in presidents or the next honest election won't change it.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/insider-explains-rural-christian-white-america-dark-terrifying-underbelly/

[Wounded Bear]

2. Putin's Puppet will have his strings clipped...

and he'll be on his own.

[panader0]

4. This is a big facet of the indictments too.

The 13 named Russians won't be able to leave Russia. And many more who
were not named will be scared. Putin's game is up.

[mopinko]

10. and they dont know who they are.

stooges who were sent here to pay people off, etc, now have to worry if they will be picked up.
and hopefully they will. mueller isnt stupid. he obviously knows who the couriers are. he wouldnt tip his hand on that.

[Ligyron]

26. I wonder how much the CIA and others are providing intel for this?

We apparently got pretty deep into the Russian's operation. Or somebody did. I know the Dutch helped.

I don't trust Pompeo.

[TheDebbieDee]

52. I think the CIA is feeding info to Mueller's Team bypassing Pompeo completely!

I asked a couple of weekends ago here at this site what the CIA is doing about Trump since the republicans have the FBI under negative scrutiny. All I really know about CIA operations is what I have gleaned from Robert Ludlum and Tom Clancy books...

[Roy Rolling]

58. In a nutshell

Dim-witted test fund baby who skirts the law in business and performs in a reality TV show

versus

Dedicated and patriotic former FBI Director after 9/11 with decades of law enforcement experience.

Bob Mueller is so light years ahead of Trump he even has an answer for the crybaby revolution that could unfold when Trump is indicted/impeached/reigns in disgrace. His followers are the problem, and Mueller has plans to deal with them also.

[Zoonart]

29. As far as those Russians named...

I would want to be extradited. I think we have entered into unexplained accident territory.

I hope all of the witnesses are safe, and Mueller et al....no charter plane travel.

The Russians do not like loose ends.

[dchill]

3. K&R.

[Leghorn21]

5. Yes. So far, a quiet morning here to reflect, and those indictments are sweet and tasty and I

have hope again because man, I been flagging badly these last couple of weeks (and then...Parkland).

There’s a wonderful lawfare post that spells out what the indictments are about, for those of us (yes I mean me) who are slow to grasp legal-type stuff -

https://www.lawfareblog.com/russian-influence-campaign-whats-latest-mueller-indictment

Thanks for your post, 0!

[True Blue American]

13. Thank you for that.

[Raastan]

27. Yes, thanks. That was very helpful!

[lamp_shade]

6. You summed it all up nicely. Thanks.

[panader0]

9. It's delicious--spiced up by new "claims" of sexual infidelity,

just to make tRump even more uncomfortable.
I cannot believe he can sustain this sham much longer.
Which R's will support him now? What of his agenda to destroy our country?

[global1]

15. Which R's Will Support Him Now? Well Those R's....

that are in on this up to their necks. I'm thinking if we see R's supporting him now - they are the ones that are as involved in this Russian thing as much as TrumpCo. We need to be calling those R's out and get them feeling more of the heat from this treasonous act.

[regnaD kciN]

53. All. Of. Them.

Just like every other time he did something that was "the last straw."

[malthaussen]

38. That would be telling. :)

In more ways than one.

-- Mal

[dalton99a]

7. Message to Russia: Fuck your stooge in the White House - We are fighting back.

[orangecrush]

12. +1

[not fooled]

24. "This is the first time I've felt someone is defending the U.S."

As someone on one of the MSNBC news shows pointed out yesterday (paraphrased; sorry, I don't remember the name, for attribution).



And another comment was that the con is in mar-a-lago this weekend, where he will be surrounded by friends and supporters (such as they are) who will provide poor widdle donnie some comfort and solace. The worse his weekend, the better the country's.

[lunatica]

32. Rachel Maddow said it last night

Last edited Sun Feb 18, 2018, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

And that in itself gives me comfort because if anyone outside of Mueller has followed this story Maddow has.

[regnaD kciN]

54. Is Rachel Maddox any relation to Lester?

[A2er]

60. Huh?

What was your point? Trying to link a racist to Rachel? Tell us.

[Exotica]

62. you are joking, right?

[Pluvious]

42. And all the beautiful beautiful chocolate cake he can shove down ...

... that shithole in his face.

[mucifer]

8. Maybe I'm the only one. But, I'm scared about the poisoning those russians do to people they don't

like. I worry for the safety of Mueller and Rosenstein and those working for them.

[Cosmocat]

18. They are in MUCH more danger from one of our own wacko righties

Putin put these operations into place because it is unchartered territory, and he could get away with it.

Killing our public servants is go to war level stuff, not that 45 will, but it just isn't line he will cross.

NOW, Manafort, Page, Flynn ... Those fuckers damn well have to know their next Subway footlong might be the last.

[pangaia]

30. SUBWAY footlong...

[usedtobedemgurl]

21. That is an interesting thought and not one without merit.....

Thing is, if that happens and collusion with the Russians is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, could this not be extended to murder? If you look at it logically, Trump said to find her emails and they did. Trump said to release them and they did. Trump said somebody do something (and more at times) and could this not easily fall in line with the other statements. If anyone is murdered, you will have a very hard time convincing me it was not all of them in on it together. And, as much as I hesitate to say this, I mean all of them. Anyone who has supported Trump - Ryan, Turtle, et al. will all be just as guilty as if they pulled the trigger and perhaps they would be found to be actively in on it. Right now the noose is tightening around all of the R's necks and if the investigation were to be stopped, I think it would let a lot of them off the hook.

[Kablooie]

11. And Congress doesn't convene for a week for President's day.

So they all have to deal with the public and media's reaction individually. I'll bet that was part of the plan too. Let the impact set in before the Republican Congress can work up a defense.

[True Blue American]

14. Wonder how many

Town Halls they will have? Guess?

[global1]

17. And We Should Be At Those Town Halls To Make Them....

uncomfortable. Let them know how the American People feel about this so they can't wiggle out and feed us weasel words when they get back to D.C.

Make sure they give McConnell and Ryan an earful as to how much trouble they are in as a Party.

[Merlot]

16. Why do these indictments make Mueller and Rosenstein safe(er)?

I've read that in a couple more places as well. Seriously, you tell trumpft he can't do something and it's like dangling a bright orange, gold-plated carrot in front of him (we know he would never grab an actual carrot). I don't see these indictments stopping trumpft from trying something, in fact, they've probably turned up the urgency.

Public outcry be damned, trumpft doesn't care. That's what we've learned so far.

[shraby]

20. He will be accused of protecting the Russians.

[Merlot]

22. The accusations will be that much more substantial

ok, I get it. Still, he will probably try anyhow.

[Juliusseizure]

46. I think Mueller's strategy assumes it

Which is why he's hiding his cards, methodically laying the legal foundation for serious charges later while squeezing Trump into a tighter box by knocking out political and legal defenses. This time proving Russian interference isn't a hoax, but not implicating anyone in the campaign yet of conspiracy.

Trump can feel victorious - see no Russian collusion- though now he looks even more like a Russian agent by not doing anything about interference, adding credibility to the investigation.

This buys him time to gather evidence, flip more witnesses, while swaying public opinion that the investigation is credible and important for national security, not a political witchhunt.

By the time Mueller shows his cards, it will be too late to fire him without the act itself being a crime on its face.

[meadowlander]

49. Because when Trump moves against Mueller

he's going to say "you've spent all this time and money investigating and you don't have anything to show for it".

Now Mueller has something to show for it.

[Cosmocat]

19. To quote Joe B - its a big fucking deal

NOW ... 40% of the country it won't make a lick of difference.

But, as noted, it absolutely changes the whole complexion of things.

[ffr]

23. I noticed that yesterday too. It was a strategic flanking move.

These conservative criminal traitors have been so concentrated at obstructing the investigation, they left their backs unguarded.

[Liberalhammer]

45. Agree

To me it's like a pincer move with a feint.

Keep in mind that the media manipulation by Trump is always play.

The investigation went after the most likely suspects with Flynn, etc... drawing the Trump and his legislative lackeys to concentrate on that, trying to blame Obama and smear the FBI. The fient.
Nunes and his congressional allies have been drawn out and blew the rest of their load with the last memo b.s., now they have no media defense or half arsed excuses for firing.

Then the CIA and homeland security department say Russia is an active roll screwing with are elections, then these last indictments that prove meddling in the 2016 election on behalf of Trump.

It's a classic denied flank maneuver, FBI and Obama vindicated and Russia meddling proven at the same to time.

Genius.

[gopiscrap]

61. welcome to DU

[randr]

25. If nothing else the indictments

invalidate the election

[Eliot Rosewater]

34. And the courts alone will change this country for 40 years

[kentuck]

28. Any involvement by anyone from this point forward in this investigation is a crime...

The shit just got real for a lot of people.

[PatSeg]

31. Some day there will be a movie

or preferably a mini series about this investigation and it will be an intense edge-of-your-seat nailbiter! It will make All the President's Men look like Winnie the Pooh.

[Eliot Rosewater]

33. And we KNOW trump jr and others were very wittingly working with KGB so

I have to assume there are more indictments to come.

Better be.

[lunatica]

35. Makes you wonder how many Russians are really leaving the country

I suspect this is all like the part of the iceberg that’s above the water. A mere handful of Russians didn’t do this much damage.

[malthaussen]

36. Well, technically, crimes are only alleged to have been committed.

An indictment is not a conviction. Whether any of the persons or entities in the indictment ever stand trial is an open question at this point.

If I seem to be splitting hairs, here, well, I try (and sometimes even succeed) to be precise in the use of facts.

I agree that these indictments make it harder for the Trump camp to deny Russian interference, and I see they're already starting to change their tune on that. But they can still cling to the "no collusion" argument, since this indictment says nothing about that (or the money laundering). I rather expect that there is more and better to come; the indictment of the Russians first I see as a shrewd move by Mr Mueller to protect his flanks before he gets to the good stuff. That's speculation, of course.

I'm also seeing some people jumping on the charge that the Russian 'bots were helping Mr Sanders and Mrs Stein. I speculate that certain elements (both Dem and Repub, unfortunately), are going to make a very big deal out of this, and suggest complicity where none is alleged in the indictment.

-- Mal

[H2O Man]

37. Recommended.

Trump's legal team knows this will require him to either speak to Mr. Mueller, or the grand jury.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

39. I am feeling puzzled by these indictments.

My first question when I heard about them was, "Why is Mueller bothering? Aren't all those indicted out of the country and highly unlikely to be extradited to this one?"

Watching Rachel last night did help to clear some of my confusion. Her analysis was that these lay the groundwork for indicting and perhaps bringing to trial people who are in this country and won't be able to flee.

The other real shocker on her show last night was the updating of the negotiations over Manafort's bond to get him off what I gather is house arrest.

[CentralMass]

40. A related article -The charges Mueller could have brought against the Russians but didn't

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/charges-mueller-could-have-brought-against-russians-didn-t-n849006

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. Thank you for that link.

It helped clarify things for me.

[nolabels]

51. Laying the ground work of charging actual crimes of foreign nationals is all he needed

It seems like a little touche for the declassified republican memo and it makes quite easy to see who is listening to who. The republicans are going to have a hard time vindicating the Russian nationals they were working with. My guess is they will try to but it sounds like quick-sand to me

[meadowlander]

50. It's a bat signal to everyone involved as well

that their window for cooperating and working out a plea deal is closing fast.

[AlexSFCA]

43. hopefully, but so far these inditments are rather symbolic

13 inditements against russian nationals living in russia. Main fraud is identity theft. If you think about it, faux news and rw media have done far more damage. The main conclusion I made from this is that not that putin us bad (no news here) but that we allowed this to happened since at least 2014. There is no lack of evil in the world but the main problem is us.

[pnwmom]

44. Unless you want to live in a police state, the main problem isn't us. n/t

[Skittles]

47. I agree with this assessment

the use of the word UNWITTING was a very tactical addition

[alarimer]

48. When will the Koch brothers be indicted?

They are a least as much of a threat. Yet, as far as I know, what they are doing is all perfectly legal, if more than a little despicable. But I really don't think there is much difference between the Russians and the right wing web that has been undermining this country for decades. They all serve the same purpose in undermining our institutions.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/30/covert-operations

The report showed that, from 2005 to 2008, the Kochs vastly outdid ExxonMobil in giving money to organizations fighting legislation related to climate change, underwriting a huge network of foundations, think tanks, and political front groups. Indeed, the brothers have funded opposition campaigns against so many Obama Administration policies—from health-care reform to the economic-stimulus program—that, in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus.

[Hortensis]

63. +1000. They break the law often in business, proudly.

Mostly regulatory violations but often very serious ones, leading to deaths, and of course they're thieves. Charles would have gone to prison for stealing petroleum from an Indian reservation if a U.S. senator hadn't made the prosecution go away.

I wouldn't bet a dollar these arrogant lifelong criminals haven't broken laws as part of their political activism, believing they are above the law and can't be brought down.

[alarimer]

64. I've been seeing ads for Koch Industries lately.

Not selling any particular product but promoting the company as some sort of good thing.

Their influence is even more insidious. I was at the Georgia Aquarium a while back and a major exhibit was sponsored by Georgia Pacific (a Koch Brothers company). Not one word about climate change or conservation, really anywhere in the aquarium. Most of the exhibits were sponsored by one company or another. No wonder we are so ignorant as a nation. The truth is suppressed at even allegedly educational institutions.

I know the Koch brothers funded the Tea Party movement and many other "astroturf" organizations. I know they sponsor ALEC, which provides model legislation for all kinds of right-wing dreams. All legal, if not exactly above-board.

Elections need to be secure, for sure, but there are many, many ways to destroy our institutions and most of those are from within. I just don't want us to take our eyes off the ball, which is protecting our institutions from all threats, the biggest of whom is Trump himself.

[regnaD kciN]

55. "R's in Congress are panicking."

Please give examples.

[UCmeNdc]

59. They are so quiet......

Where is McConnell?

Where is Ryan?

[Blue Owl]

56. Mueller's doing the framing here