If Kirsten Gillibrand were to run for president after all...

[Ken Burch]

Last edited Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

...who do you think would still support her(in the primaries)?...

What kind of a showing do people here envision her making?

[leftstreet]

1. Not sure this can be answered until Franken's seat is safe

If a GOPer takes it, I'm not sure she'll be able to overcome the mess

[workinclasszero]

2. Well she would be a proven liar for one thing....

Gillibrand accepts nomination for another term, promises to serve all of it
By JIMMY VIELKIND 02/16/2018 04:32 PM EST Updated 02/16/2018 05:34 PM EST

Asked if she plans to serve a full term if elected in November, Gillibrand said, "I do."

"I really want to serve in the U.S. Senate," she said.

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2018/02/16/gillibrand-accepts-nomination-for-another-term-promises-to-serve-all-of-it-261836

[crazycatlady]

23. I believe Hillary Clinton said the same thing in 2006

And she ran in 2007/8 and left the in 2009 to become SOS.

[LexVegas]

3. I could support her. Some I prefer may run as well though. nt

[IluvPitties]

4. If she winds up being the nominee, I'll vote for her.

But trust me, I would be opposing her very vocally in the primaries. There are many other wonderful, capable Democrats out there that can run.

[Ken Burch]

7. I was speaking only of the primaries. Thanks for your response.

n/t.

[CentralMass]

5. She was not anyone I would have chosen for a primary candidate before.

and recent circumstance havnt changed that. I hope that we have other candidates that will run.

[Binkie The Clown]

6. Look closely at her whole history. She's a political opportunist who is part of "the swamp." nt

[NCTraveler]

9. A Democratic version of Sanders? nt.

[Ken Burch]

12. Look, he should not run for president, but he wasn't running out of opportunism.

Why is it so hard to accept that he ran because of the reasons he SAID he ran-that nobody was addressing the issues his campaign ended up being about?

He couldn't have known that Russia was going to meddle and he wouldn't have prevented them meddling by not running.

It was about working for a better country.

[NCTraveler]

14. This attack on a Democrat is what I was referencing.

"Look closely at her whole history. She's a political opportunist who is part of "the swamp." nt"

"He couldn't have known that Russia was going to meddle and he wouldn't have prevented them meddling by not running."

No clue what you are talking to in reference to my post or the one I was reply to. They even went full on "swamp".

[Ken Burch]

16. As to Gillibrand, a LOT of Du'ers have described her campaign against Franken as "opportunism".

Is this not a case where what some might see as "attack" may actually be become a valid observation?

And you said, in response to the phrase "a part of the swamp", "A Democratic version of Sanders?"

It sounded as though you were claming the Sanders campaign was "opportunism" and that Bernie is "part of the swamp". Is that what you were meaning to say?

[NCTraveler]

17. Not.

"It sounded as though you were claming the Sanders campaign was "opportunism". Did I interpret your use of the phrase "like Sanders?" to mean that, or not?"

Not sure why you added the word campaign. It makes my comment out to be something other than what it was.

[Ken Burch]

18. What were you referring to, then?

To my knowledge, nobody would have applied the term "opportunist" to Sanders BEFORE he ran for president.

What else would he have done, prior to that, that was "opportunism"?

He hadn't done anything that involved going after a Dem politician in the way Gillibrand went after AL, to my knowledge-or anything prior to that that could be interpreted as driven solely by ego or self-interest.

It's not "opportunism" simply to seek elected office as a democratic socialist, to my knowledge.

[NCTraveler]

19. What I meant was very clear.

"nobody would have applied the term "opportunist" to Sanders BEFORE he ran for president."

Highly inaccurate statement. Even past members of his own staff disagree with you.

I have no reason to elaborate. It's simply too clear of a point to waste time on. Specially when that time also involves you literally adding words to my sentences in order to make some failed point.

[Ken Burch]

22. Actually, no. I don't know what you are talking about.

It isn't a clear point at all.

I didn't add words to your sentences-my use of the word "campaign" was in a sentence of my own.

To my knowledge, nothing Bernie did before 2016 could seriously be considered opportunistic by anyone.

What are you saying his staff would have considered opportunistic?

And why would you even bring Bernie into this discussion when nothing he did was comparable to Gillibrand's scorched-earth tactics against AL. Bernie never hounded anybody out of office on dubious grounds, nor was his career about personal attacks.

Nor, to my or most anybody else here's knowledge, did he commit any fundamental betrayals of anyone for short-term personal gain.

The big critique I heard of him among Vermonters was that he stopped there being the creation of a broad-based Left party there, in the interest in maintaining a working relationship with the Vermont Dems-most would call that pragmatic, rather than opportunistic.

Before this, I thought you just thought he shouldn't have been in our primaries. Are you actually saying he should never have had a place in politics at all?

If nothing else, Vermont politics would have been meaningless without him-would have been useless to have nobody to the left of Howard Dean on the scene in that state.

[Eliot Rosewater]

26. I guess welcome to DU where attacking democrats is tolerated all day long

sigh

I have a lot to say about Bernie, but I dont DARE

But they can attack dems all day fucking long

how stupid is that

Note to self, dont support democrats too loudly and dont criticize that ONE independent politician who for some god damn reason is hands off at DU. Oh, and ATTACK and criticize sitting democratic politicians ALL you want

[Ken Burch]

31. You seem to have missed the massive number of threads over the weekend

where Bernie was virtually accused of being a Russian agent(or, at the least, of KNOWING the Russians were meddling and not caring).

Or of all months of threads calling him out over the "identity politics" speech.

Or of all the endless threads effectively blaming Bernie's candidacy for T___p.

Or of all the threads from people who used to support him saying he shouldn't run for president again.

Or of all the threads still demanding that he release the tax returns(which he should do if he seeks the White House again).

Or of all the threads where people go after Jane.

Or of all the threads where people still call him out for not "identifying with the Democrats" or for criticizing the party too harshly.

Seems to me that that's pretty much everything anybody COULD go after the guy about here.

Could you kindly pm me with whatever the hell it is you want to go after him about but feel you can't bring up in a thread?

I'm honestly curious...and I'm thinking that most of DU is as well.

[Eliot Rosewater]

37. There would be no point in telling you, your reaction would be

complete and total denial, disbelief, etc.

My concern is not people in your demographic, as I assume you are 50 something or older...

My gigantic worry are the millions and millions of young voters, many first time voters, who are following him and not asking any of the right questions.

Scares the holy hell out of me, actually.

[Ken Burch]

46. Not necessarily.

He's already been publicly accused of everything he could be accused of.

Just pm me with it already.

The guy shouldn't run for president, but he's not evil.

[Demsrule86]

42. I just don't see the point in any of this.

let's get though 18.

[Ken Burch]

54. Perhaps I shouldn't have started this thread.

It wasn't meant as an attack on Gillibrand...simply a request that people offer assessments as to what her support in the primaries might now be after the whole thing with AL-a discussion I'd stayed out of mostly.

[Demsrule86]

58. I don't see what it matters. I have no objection to this thread...but people will run...people will

vote and the last man or woman standing will be the nominee...and then we need to support this person even if we don't agree with them 100%. I pledge to vote for the Democratic nominee...How you been...did you get a lot of snow?

[Ken Burch]

60. Not that much actually.

I'm ok...busy at school.

(I went back to college last year at age 56).

[Demsrule86]

64. I know how is it going...my dream retirement is to take courses on anything I am interested in from

Physics to the Gothic novel...I have many interests.

[FSogol]

69. Your subject line in #54 is damn good advice! n/t

[Sophia4]

27. Student loan debt in this country as well as medical debt are drivers

of poverty for many Americans.

And it could get a lot worse if we have a recession (a regular occurrence every so many years in our country). Americans are still too indebted for the good of our country.

Student loan debt and medical costs were two of Bernie's issues.

Whoever runs in 2020 as a Democrat will have to present workable solutions to those two problems. Because the problems are not going away. Not if Republicans have anything to say about it.

[Demsrule86]

43. You do understand that a president can't do that without Congress right?

How about we think about getting the House and the Senate. You have to have realistic expectations. No Democrat will give us everything we want. Those that turned on Obama because he couldn't get single payer cost us as we had six years of playing defense and did advance a progressive agenda. Two Democratic Presidents in the last 30 years...should have been four... Gore and Clinton. Let's concentrate on electing Democrats and get what we can...and keep on electing Democrats and get more...the key is it is never OK to vote for any third party candidate or a Republican or to stay home...not saying you did any of that just a general comment. if one wants to send a message to Democratic elected don't use your vote... use email or twitter.

[Sophia4]

48. I agree that we need the House and the Senate.

But we have had the House and the Senate, and in 2005, we got a Bankruptcy Bill that makes it next to impossible for students to discharge their student loans in bankruptcy.

And Obamacare was an improvement over the health care system we had before, but it is essential that every American citizen have health insurance and the right to healthcare even if they are poor. To do that, in my opinion, we need nonprofit insurance companies and single payer insurance that takes the money for insurance coverage directly out of paychecks, everyone's paycheck.

I know this works because, as I have said many times, I lived in European countries on the economy. Single payer works. Free education and/or other ways to make higher education including vocational training free or at least affordable is essential if we are to have a good, inclusive economy. Other countries have free or at least reasonably priced higher education. How can we compete if we don't?

[left-of-center2012]

52. Sanders' positions have stayed the same over the years

That's one thing Bernie haters can't use against him.

[Demsrule86]

59. They are Democratic positions as well.

[crazycatlady]

24. Her views shifted as her district did

Her old district is a Blue Dog type district where you need to appeal to some Republicans to win. The current version of the district (NY-19 instead of NY-20) has Albany carved out and in a separate district.

Now half of her constituents live in dark blue NYC and the metro area. Before none of them did.

Frank Underwood (House of Cards) used to tell people to 'vote your district.'

[brush]

30. She's no longer a Rep., she a senator now so the whole state is her constituency.

She is still an opportunist though. She gladly accepted funding from the Clintons when running for Hillary's seat but threw Bill under in saying he should've resigned over the Lewinsky mess.

It might have been the same bus on a later run she threw Al Franken under to increase her profile for 2020.

[AlexSFCA]

34. this not a bad thing; it means she is strategic.

We need a candidate like that who will win no matter what, strategize every step, thinking ahead, always laser sharp focused on winning. We don’t need a purist who plays by the rules when the opposing candidate is breaking all the rules.

[brush]

67. I'm not sure I get where you're coming from. I feel Gillibrand, a sitting Senator, is the best...

choice to run for re-election for the Senate, but IMO she's not too smart as her gullibility in falling for the repug hit job on Franken has shown.

Yes for her to keep a Dem seat in the Senate.

No effin way for her as our presidential nominee.

[left-of-center2012]

51. That was brought out in her "60 Minutes" interview

I was shocked she at one time had a '100' rating from the NRA,
as stated in that interview.

Her position on many issues have changed,
also as stated in the "60 Minutes" interview.

[Exotica]

55. she was the only Democratic senator to vote against EVERY ONE of Trumps shite nominations

That said, I would only support her if she is the nominee

I have no preferred candidate atm

I am MUCH more worried about 2018

[NCTraveler]

8. I might support her in the primaries.

I think she would be a great voice for our side. That said, I hope I have a better option.

It's hard to determine anything not knowing what the field will look like.

[Ken Burch]

33. Fair enough.

And I'm asking the question with no real agenda...just trying to find out what people here would think about that.

[NCTraveler]

35. I have never met someone so agendaless.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Depends who else is running, but remember that she got over 70% of the vote last time...

I am involved with the county committee and three town committees-- our primary job this year is getting NY 1 back. We feel very good because we just picked up my town's Supervisor job and a couple of Council seats.

We smell blood.

But, nobody is talking about the Senate race. Nobody. It's just assumed it will be Gillibrand, and she will win again.

[CentralMass]

11. In New York.

[Ken Burch]

13. To clarify-I meant if she ran for president, not for re-election to the Senate.

n/t.

[TreasonousBastard]

25. I'm aware of that, but I'm saying her support is enormous here...

and if she did run for Pres, it could easily carry over.

She is crafty and canny, which some around here seem to hate, but the simple truth is that the Franken thing probably means very little outside of certain small quarters.

If she did get the nod and ran against Trump, he wouldn't know what hit him.

[Ken Burch]

32. Well, I would HOPE anybody we nominated could clean T___p's clock.

n/t.

[TreasonousBastard]

36. "Duh" But no one else so far has the name recognition and electibility to really take him on...

And aside from Franken (which nobody outside of DU seems to care about) what about her could anyone really object to?

[Demsrule86]

45. That is not a given. He did not have good polls before 16 and the Russians are still at it...they

took Franken down.

[JI7]

15. Her support of Big Tobacco would keep many from supporting her

[Sophia4]

28. Big Tobacco -- Uggh! Are you sure about that?

Accepting the support of tobacco would be a big mistake.

Surely she doesn't.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. She had a job with a law firm that had a tobacco company as a client...

and she quit that job.

[Sophia4]

40. She was a lawyer for a firm representing a tobacco company?

That is not what I would call receiving support from tobacco.

To each his own though. It is a matter of opinion.

[Exotica]

57. As New Lawyer, Senator Was Active in Tobaccos Defense

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/nyregion/27gillibrand.html

snip

Now in the Senate seat formerly held by Hillary Rodham Clinton, Ms. Gillibrand plays down her work as a lawyer representing Philip Morris, saying she was a junior associate with little control over the cases she was handed and limited involvement in defending the tobacco maker.

But a review of thousands of documents and interviews with dozens of lawyers and industry experts indicate that Ms. Gillibrand was involved in some of the most sensitive matters related to the defense of the tobacco giant as it confronted pivotal legal battles beginning in the mid-1990s.

Ms. Gillibrand, who worked at the Manhattan firm of Davis Polk & Wardwell from 1991 to 2000, eventually oversaw a team of associate lawyers working on Philip Morris cases, according to a colleague, and was a frequent point of contact between the firm and Philip Morris executives.

In addition, Ms. Gillibrand represented Davis Polk on a high-level Philip Morris committee whose work included shielding certain documents from disclosure, according to several lawyers and industry observers. Serving on the panel placed her alongside some of the country’s top tobacco industry lawyers.

snip

[TreasonousBastard]

62. Here's the scoop from her Wiki...

In 1991, Gillibrand joined the Manhattan-based law firm of Davis Polk & Wardwell as an associate.[2] In 1992, she took a leave from Davis Polk to serve as a law clerk to Judge Roger Miner on the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit in Albany.[4][12]

Gillibrand's tenure at Davis Polk is best known for her work as a defense attorney for Philip Morris during major litigation, including both civil lawsuits and U.S. Justice Department criminal and civil racketeering probes.[13] She became a senior associate while working on Philip Morris litigation.[14] While this time in her career has proven controversial, Gillibrand said her work for Philip Morris allowed her to take on multiple pro bono cases defending abused women and their children, as well as other cases defending tenants seeking safe housing after lead paint and unsafe conditions were found in their homes.[4]

While working at Davis Polk, Gillibrand became involved in—and later the leader of—the Women's Leadership Forum, a program of the Democratic National Committee. Gillibrand states that a speech to the group by First Lady Hillary Clinton inspired her: "[Clinton] was trying to encourage us to become more active in politics and she said, 'If you leave all the decision-making to others, you might not like what they do, and you will have no one but yourself to blame.' It was such a challenge to the women in the room. And it really hit me: She's talking to me."[2]

Following her time at Davis Polk, Gillibrand served as Special Counsel to Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Andrew Cuomo during the last year of the Clinton administration.[6] Gillibrand worked on HUD's Labor Initiative and its New Markets Initiative, as well as on TAP's Young Leaders of the American Democracy, and strengthening Davis–Bacon Act enforcement.[15]

In 1999, Gillibrand began working on Hillary Clinton's 2000 U.S. Senate campaign, focusing on campaigning to young women and encouraging them to join the effort. Many of those women later worked on Gillibrand's campaigns.[1] Gillibrand and Clinton became close during the election, with Clinton becoming something of a mentor to the young attorney.[4] Gillibrand donated more than $12,000 to Clinton's senate campaigns.[16]

In 2001, Gillibrand became a partner in the Manhattan office of Boies, Schiller & Flexner, where a client was the Philip Morris parent company Altria Group. In 2002 she informed Boies of interest in running for office and was allowed to transfer to the firm's Albany office. She left Boies in 2005 to begin her 2006 campaign for Congress.[4][13]

So, it was two law firms, actually, and she seems to have dived into it willingly, although we don't know how involved she was the second time around.

However, even tobacco companies have the right to a defense, as lame as that may sound. As I said-- she is slick and crafty, but she's been on our side for the most part, and she is the kind of person you want on your side.

[Demsrule86]

47. That happened in 1996. She was a young lawyer...for God sakes...we are all Democrats.

This sort of thing is just wrong.

[MineralMan]

20. I would not. I could not.

I would strongly advise her not to run, as well. If she does, she will not prevail in the primary, I guarantee.

[tavernier]

50. Not in a boat, not with a goat.

I do not like her, Sam I Am.

[MineralMan]

65. Exactly.

[Blue_true]

21. I would look at the field.

I would support her over Bernie or Joe Biden, but would vote for Joe Kennedy over her. I would support the democratic primary winner in the General without a remote reservation.

[AlexSFCA]

29. I would support her over bernie any day, not sure about biden

we are not seeing any frontrunners this time around, that’s why we keep looking at biden, bernie, etc. At least kristen is new to potential presidential run and I think she will also may have support of repub women voters, many of whom voted for clinton. I want to have a dem candidate who is most likely to win in the general. Gillibrand v. Trump will be a very dramatic contrast and she will may win media coverage over trump. I saw her on tv, she is a very tough woman, has undeniable star power, will not back down, but with much more charisma than Warren, the other tough cookie.

Stop balming Kristen for franken, she was not the only one; chuck shumer was the most instrumental.

Gillbrand v. Biden in the primaries- I think she will win. However, I fail to see how their positions any different.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. I agree. Kristin is left leaning enough for me, and a terror on the campaign trail...

The purity police want the perfect candidate, but there are no perfect candidates.

But a pretty good candidate that is right on most of the issues and can win in a landslide works for me.

[Demsrule86]

41. I think she would do poorly especially after it was learned as many of us suspected, it was

Hannity and Stone hit job on Franken. I don't have anything against her but I wouldn't vote for her in a primary.

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Depends on who else is running in the primaries.

So it is hard to answer the question now.

I just hope whomever runs, the opposition doesn't go overboard and damage the eventual nomine the same way Clinton was damaged.

[mythology]

49. That depends on a number of factors

Who else is running, how we did in the 2018 elections, what the general political climate is. Without that information all I can say is I might support her, I might not. In the 2016 primaries I didn't have a particular preference among the 3 major candidates. I didn't support any of them, but would have been happy to vote for any of them in the general election.

[Renew Deal]

53. She would have an above average chance of becoming the nominee

Most people agreed with her that Franken should resign for the things he admitted to doing.

[MustLoveBeagles]

56. I would in the general, not so sure about the primaries

I don't like the role she played in the Franken debacle.

[Vogon_Glory]

61. Not me

Gillibrand was a political opportunist who knee-capped one of the better upcoming US Senators we had in recent times. As far as I’m concerned, she should be forced to watch as some more worthy Democrat gets the nomination as the Democratic Party candidate for President in 2020.

[Motownman78]

63. Considering the recent

news about how it was a Right-wing site that pushed the narrative that Franken was a serial harasser, I think Gillibrand is a tool. I would not support her in the Primary. She showed poor judgement in what was basically a Right wing smear campaign.

And before anyone mentions the women who came forward, doesn't it sound strange that the second Franken resigned, no more victims came forward? If he was such a serial harasser, there should be a lot more women who were victims?

[ConnorMarc]

66. I agree

She doesn't have my support.

[Luciferous]

68. Not me, not after what she did to Franken.

[FSogol]

70. Translation: What topic would divide Democrats the most?

[Exotica]

73. As a noob here I will guess..... Bernie?

[dflprincess]

71. I could not support someone so gullible they'd walk right into a Republican trap

and expect to get points for it.

http://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-trump-franken-mueller-twitter-810355

[RealityChik]

72. After what she did to Al Franken?

Hell would have to freeze over before she'd get my vote.