Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:25 PM

Baconator (1,459 posts)

6 Reasons Your Right-Wing Friend Isnt Coming To Your Side On Gun Control

"There are several reasons Second Amendment advocates aren’t running to your side of the argument, and it might not be the ones you think."

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/6-reasons-right-wing-friend-isnt-coming-side-gun-control/

1. We Rarely Get to Come to the Conversation in Good Faith

2. The ‘Blood on Their Hands’ Attacks Are Offensive

3. The Loudest Voices Are Often the Most Ignorant

4. The Most Prominent Policy Ideas Have Nothing to Do With the Tragedy

5. We Seriously Don’t Care About Gun Laws in Other Countries

6. We Really Do Consider Owning Firearms a Right

________________________________________

I always find it helpful to look at a problem from all sides. Very few folks see themselves as the enemy.

Author, source etc... all on the other side of the spectrum but in the end the question should be "Do we want to fight?" or "Do we want results? If so, what are those...?"

Working with some good faith could go a long ways...

edit: Added the 6 Reasons. More at the article...

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224 replies	Author	Time	Post
6 Reasons Your Right-Wing Friend Isnt Coming To Your Side On Gun Control (Original post)	Baconator	Feb 2018	OP
Fuck 'em. Don't care.	Iggo	Feb 2018	#1
I guess we can safely put you in the "Just want to fight" category...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#6
Nope.	Iggo	Feb 2018	#9
Same difference...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#13
You volunteering to go door to door?	fallout87	Feb 2018	#95
There is nothing to fight about. Kids are getting murdered in schools. If they need me to kiss	wasupaloopa	Feb 2018	#12
How do you expect to get from A to B (whatever that is)...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#15
You are dealing here with a Republican party that doesn't negotiate	Cary	Feb 2018	#20
Have you read "How Democracies Die"?	Baconator	Feb 2018	#25
What's your point?	Cary	Feb 2018	#71
We're not dealing the repugs of the 80s, even the 90s. Were you paying attention at all since 2000?	brush	Feb 2018	#102
"You are dealing here with a Republican party that doesn't negotiate"	Alpeduez21	Feb 2018	#158
The ramification is that it's a waste of time to negotiate with them	Cary	Feb 2018	#161
This is the only way to deal with this problem with Republicans	Quixote1818	Feb 2018	#99
+1. nt	Honeycombe8	Feb 2018	#79
Your article contained ZERO strategies for reducing massacres. Not my problem?	lostnfound	Feb 2018	#128
I agree. At this point, I could give a flying fuck about what they want.	smirkymonkey	Feb 2018	#38
Bingo. Fuck em.	stopbush	Feb 2018	#69
Not true	shenmue	Feb 2018	#2
I thought this was an important article when I saw it earlier this morning.	WhiskeyGrinder	Feb 2018	#3
If you read the Federalist you are not a Democrat	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#35
No true Scotsman, eh?	WhiskeyGrinder	Feb 2018	#48
Federalist is billionaire-funded propaganda	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#51
The source is inconsequential	Sherman A1	Feb 2018	#80
I was unfamiliar w/The Federalist, so just took a look. It's not a legit source.	Honeycombe8	Feb 2018	#85
Name one time when ANYONE has called for the right to "have an open discussion"	Cosmocat	Feb 2018	#148
I believe that we	Sherman A1	Feb 2018	#159
Have we learned nothing? The source is ALWAYS consequential.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#151
We have learned a significant amount of things but perhaps	Sherman A1	Feb 2018	#160
I have, indeed, completed all the learning that there is to find from trollish sites like	Squinch	Feb 2018	#162
I've never read it, but it's been my observation....	Honeycombe8	Feb 2018	#81
I am an advocate of the 2nd amendment that also believes in gun control	GulfCoast66	Feb 2018	#4
Exactly.	xmas74	Feb 2018	#115
What do you find helpful there?	Cary	Feb 2018	#5
Uh huh... Just now...? This very moment?	Baconator	Feb 2018	#8
What if it was?	Cary	Feb 2018	#16
I did in the OP...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#21
I see	Cary	Feb 2018	#24
If your goal is for your opponent to just give up and think like you do...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#26
My goal?	Cary	Feb 2018	#45
You claim that you aren't responsible for others...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#130
About 15 here	Motownman78	Feb 2018	#28
About 15 what?	Cary	Feb 2018	#42
The perspective of the other side is that they have already given up too much.	Caliman73	Feb 2018	#138
Yes, Federalist, who funds you?? Even conservatives question this pub	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#41
Kids arendying in scholl and we have to coddle gun owners? Fuck that!	wasupaloopa	Feb 2018	#7
The same way we have to coddle racists and misogynists.	Iggo	Feb 2018	#10
Pretty accurate article.	Decoy of Fenris	Feb 2018	#11
I'm embarrassed sometimes when I'm at party meetings at the rhetoric and disinformation that I	WhiskeyGrinder	Feb 2018	#30
The Federalist is pure propaganda	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#33
Yes, Federalist is a right-wing rag. That doesn't mean everything they say is inherently false.	Decoy of Fenris	Feb 2018	#64
No. It means what they say is propaganda.	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#67
Even propaganda can be correct.	Decoy of Fenris	Feb 2018	#72
Yes. Thats why you note the sources bias	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#74
7) their cowardice trumps all sense	Skittles	Feb 2018	#14
and 8) they have teeny weeny tiny	dweller	Feb 2018	#43
dead children don't bother them	Skittles	Feb 2018	#44
LOL. That's just 6 different ways of saying what they've always said: "Your thousands of dead	Squinch	Feb 2018	#17
Nothing new in any of that. I do agree	KPN	Feb 2018	#18
Yup. Propaganda. Schindler: Federalist less subtle than RT or Sputnik	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#34
Screw these worthless killers and those who support them vocally or tacitly.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#19
You constantly post the same few pictures....while you	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#37
Well, glad you are over here from Discussionist to see them.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#55
That's some sad deflection....	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#66
Here...	tenderfoot	Feb 2018	#88
Tell Ya What, OldGeezer	Leith	Feb 2018	#119
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and then some.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#164
Interesting....I just pointed out Hoyt's fallacy...the racial 1 he CONSTANTLY	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#187
Of Course I Dispute Your Assertion	Leith	Feb 2018	#189
What "...facist and racist crap..." have I EVER posted here?	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#190
Just look at these losers!	smirkymonkey	Feb 2018	#40
Your argument seems to be lumping every gun owner and supporter into the same bin	rpannier	Feb 2018	#54
At this point, unless you are supporting gun control, you ARE in the same bin.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#56
Exactly. It's like a trump supporter claiming they aren't racist. If you tolerate	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#58
I'd also kind of like to know: what is a "gun supporter." Is that like the ladies	Squinch	Feb 2018	#61
Give your definition of gun control please	rpannier	Feb 2018	#60
Stop that NRA bullshit. There is plenty of consensus. There are many measures that huge majorities	Squinch	Feb 2018	#63
I want to know what you think	rpannier	Feb 2018	#90
Really, not interested in having these NRA inspired list discussions. They always end up	Squinch	Feb 2018	#92
What is this list you are referring to? Something published by the NRA, something you can link...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#186
Pretty much. Support guns, one supports these losers and mass killers, nowadays.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#57
I wonder if POTUS agrees w/you	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#68
Most folks, even your buddies on the Discussionist, know where he stands	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#73
I'm a big fan of the over under President Obama is shooting...I have 1	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#75
Does that make you feel special?	Squinch	Feb 2018	#82
Cracks me up when gun-fanciers think their guns actually impress anyone. Just the opposite here.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#87
I think it's more of a three-year-old-esque attempt to bug the people he's talking to.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#89
I'd say it's more...if it's a false claim it needs to be addressed..Hoyt is good	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#188
So you're saying it does make you feel special or it doesn't?	Squinch	Feb 2018	#195
Me special....hell no. Just pointing out fallacies doesn't make me special...makes me honest.	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#196
Well...per you	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#200
Well that settles that..	Baconator	Feb 2018	#201
Whats the issue with the Lahti L39?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#76
Nothing wrong with an anti-tank gun in a war zone. This is not a war zone, Marengo, in case you	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#86
Its an NFA weapon. Expensive, extensive background check for the buyer, and above all registered.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#94
Who cares? The guy is a racist getting off on a big rifle. That crud fuels the friggin white wing	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#96
So what? Non of that is relevant to the fact that a Lahti L39 legal to own following the...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#123
Lots of things are legal, but deplorable and immoral. Gunner racism may be OK	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#124
Robbery is immoral and selfish, but that didnt stop you.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#127
You are too obtuse to own guns. Read the thread in full, without pointing	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#139
Obtuse is failing to comprehend that after having admitted to committing immoral and criminal...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#146
OOOOH! You're getting fancy! That's the "but what about the bad thing YOU did that has	Squinch	Feb 2018	#150
Leaping to the defense of an admitted criminal who chastises others for being immoral? Ill...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#152
Oh. My. God! We have a CHAMPION here! That's the "I unilaterally declare you	Squinch	Feb 2018	#153
Hey, its no bother to me if want to damage your credibility by hitching your horse to that wagon.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#166
LOL! And now you are reduced to, "I know you are but what am I?"	Squinch	Feb 2018	#169
As I said, its your credibility at stake. So please, do continue.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#173
.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#175
Didn't admit to being a criminal, tried to get you gunners to accept fact everyone is not out to	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#165
Yes you did. You refered to yourself as a former robber. Unless robbery isnt a crime, that means...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#167
Wow! You've been stalking him since 2012?? That's not creepy at all.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#171
Interesting thats what you focus on rather than the point that an admitted criminal has no...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#172
"I've gotten myself into a corner on that gun discussion we were having, so I'll	Squinch	Feb 2018	#174
He admitted to it, if you didnt notice. Do you consider robbery a moral act?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#177
Back to the silly rhetorical question! I HAVE BINGO!!!	Squinch	Feb 2018	#179
What you have is someone, myself, who finds it curious you would so quickly and consistently...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#182
Oh, sweetie, I know you worked hard for this, memorizing the script and everything.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#184
What is this script argument you keep resorting to? What are you claiming is scripted, and...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#185
What corner would that be?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#180
This message was self-deleted by its author	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#194
This message was self-deleted by its author	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#197
You certainly did...admit to being a criminal...shall I quote YOU?	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#203
Responding to you gunners who said robbers lock doors when they are going	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#206
I wouldn't trigger you by posting about my "gunz"	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#217
You and your Discussionist buddies cant erase the context either.	Hoyt	Feb 2018	#218
Again a Hoyt fallacy...I don't have di "buddies". You can't link your claim either.	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#222
Same Old Lame Talking Points	Leith	Feb 2018	#22
Like I said above	Motownman78	Feb 2018	#29
All we need to know about guns is that they kill people	treestar	Feb 2018	#107
....	LexVegas	Feb 2018	#23
I'm sorry that I offended a bunch of bloody-handed, racist cowards	samir.g	Feb 2018	#27
All gun owners are bloody-handed, racist cowards?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#77
I'll allow that there may be a small minority that aren't.	samir.g	Feb 2018	#78
How about the gun owners here on DU, are they exempt? All, or just some?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#103
You'll have to ask them why they love the same murder machines as the fascists	samir.g	Feb 2018	#133
All gun owners love murder machines? Would you define murder machine?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#136
Bwahahahaha!!!! There you go again! That's page 4 of the script, right?	Squinch	Feb 2018	#142
Perhaps you can offer an opinion, if youre capable of anything other than this script nonsense.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#168
Did you not get the part where I said it would be a waste of my time to offer you an opinion?	Squinch	Feb 2018	#170
Rubbish, youve wasted considerably more time dodging the question. Why is that? Its odd and	Marengo	Feb 2018	#176
Seriously, this is the most fun I've had with one of you guys in a long time. I've found	Squinch	Feb 2018	#178
You guys? What do you mean by that?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#181
You have a better chance of being hit by lightning than getting an answer	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#198
Agreed. A classic one trick pony, that one. It seems to regard itself as clever, but I see no...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#209
What do you mean by you guys? Where is this script you keep referring to? Have a link or cite?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#207
Something they apparently don't have in abundance in most civilized countries. nt	Wednesdays	Feb 2018	#205
Can you provide more details? What characteristics distinguish a murder machine from other firearms?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#208
All those trolling against, speaking against, working in any way against sensible gun control	Squinch	Feb 2018	#83
Can you define sensible gun control?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#104
Seriously, you guys need to vary the script now and then.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#108
Sensible is entirely subjective, and your refusal to answer is interesting, perhaps even a bit...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#116
Suspect away. Your script is obvious. And really, really old.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#132
Why cant you express at least some of your ideas? Are they that controversial or extreme? Its not..	Marengo	Feb 2018	#134
You really can't handle the script being taken away from you, can you?	Squinch	Feb 2018	#140
I find it extremely odd that you expect absolute agreement with a position you are unwilling or...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#144
When did I ever ask YOU for any agreement, much less absolute agreement? YOUR agreement	Squinch	Feb 2018	#147
Again, very odd you spend all this effort deflecting and avoiding answering a simple question.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#154
LOL! You can't think of anything else, can you? Lost like a little lamb in the woods!	Squinch	Feb 2018	#155
I'm not a lamb...shall we visit posts made here.	AncientGeezer	Feb 2018	#199
What is this script you keep referring to, and what is the relation to the NRA?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#183
A lot of it is high school	KT2000	Feb 2018	#31
I will disagree with you on one point. They LIKE their guns. They LOVE that we hate their guns.	Squinch	Feb 2018	#70
excellent point! n/t	KT2000	Feb 2018	#93
I've found that I get further with them...	MountCleaners	Feb 2018	#137
Propaganda. _Federalist_ is propaganda paid for by Koches	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#32
#7--They do not know the definition of "well regulated".	randr	Feb 2018	#36
#8 - They care more about their guns than their kids.	LonePirate	Feb 2018	#53
This to me is the starting and the	kacekwl	Feb 2018	#59
DU is not for peddling right wing garbage from places like The Federalist n/t	kcr	Feb 2018	#39
This	Stargleamer	Feb 2018	#46
Interesting post.	Kingofalldems	Feb 2018	#47
Interesting- what do you mean?	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#49
Let's just say I didn't like it--or the source cited.	Kingofalldems	Feb 2018	#50
Yup, agreed. And, Federalist is even worse...	sharedvalues	Feb 2018	#52
Fuck em.	Glamrock	Feb 2018	#62
The Federalist ? more at the link ? Huh?	lunasun	Feb 2018	#65
The Blood on Their Hands Attacks Are Offensive	tenderfoot	Feb 2018	#84
I made the same point below about the blood on their hands argument.	Quixote1818	Feb 2018	#98
+1	treestar	Feb 2018	#106
It HAS applied only to the NRA before, but now, in my mind, it applies to anyone who	Squinch	Feb 2018	#110
In the early 1960s, you could have written essentially the very same article, substituting	bullwinkle428	Feb 2018	#91
Let me shred each one	Quixote1818	Feb 2018	#97
Nicely done!	Squinch	Feb 2018	#109
On the surface those are 6 thoughtful points	Nevernose	Feb 2018	#100
Just let me put it this way,,,	world wide wally	Feb 2018	#101
#2 is kind of funny, since they call us "snowflakes"	treestar	Feb 2018	#105
Criticism or insult...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#131
Sorry. Really tired of this one. We're supposed to be sensitive to the feelings of these	Squinch	Feb 2018	#141
Their first point "We Rarely Get to Come to the Conversation in Good Faith "	PA Democrat	Feb 2018	#111
don't have any r.w. friends. and piss on the r/w's whiney justifications.	KG	Feb 2018	#112
You have a screening application?	Baconator	Feb 2018	#117
There is no good faith for some.	xmas74	Feb 2018	#113
Fuck the second amendment.	hunter	Feb 2018	#114
Reason #7	Downtown Hound	Feb 2018	#118
I totally don't care at this point.	redstatebluegirl	Feb 2018	#120
Odd that someone arguing for rational discussion quickly devolves into petulance	LanternWaste	Feb 2018	#121
What have our "right-wing friends" contributed to the debate?	Proud Liberal Dem	Feb 2018	#122
1 and 5 are mutually exclusive.	meadowlander	Feb 2018	#125
Most Americans do not own guns.	guillaumeb	Feb 2018	#126
They're wingnuts. They don't come around to our side on anything	Crunchy Frog	Feb 2018	#129
Most ppl I know who own a gun	Puzzledtraveller	Feb 2018	#135
The woman is a stubborn dolt. That's why she's not coming to our side.	muriel_volestrangler	Feb 2018	#143
In practice, these aren't reasons so much as excuses...	JHB	Feb 2018	#145
I dare you, DOUBLE dare you, to find ONE single article from an R imploring right wingers	Cosmocat	Feb 2018	#149
You may have missed my point...	JHB	Feb 2018	#156
#8 says it all	vi5	Feb 2018	#157
If keeping their guns are more important to them than the wholesale slaughter of children ,	octoberlib	Feb 2018	#163
Gun advocates can only have a valid argument...	WyattKansas	Feb 2018	#191
Where and when has militia membership been a prerequisite for the ownership of firearms?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#192
You can't cherry pick the 2nd Amendment.	WyattKansas	Feb 2018	#213
If the right of gun ownership exists outside militia service, then why would you suggest that...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#215
Are you enrolled in the state militia? If not, why do you own a firearm?	Marengo	Feb 2018	#193
There are no State Militias... It's not 1791 anymore.	WyattKansas	Feb 2018	#214
In that case, by your own argument you shouldnt possess it.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#216
No law has been passed saying I cannot have it, so why not?	WyattKansas	Feb 2018	#219
Youre not enrolled in a militia.	Marengo	Feb 2018	#220
So a law can be passed saying I cannot have it.	WyattKansas	Feb 2018	#223
By your own standard, it is illogical for you to own a firearm if not enrolled in a militia...	Marengo	Feb 2018	#224
Fine. Fuck 'em.	hatrack	Feb 2018	#202
That sounds....	Baconator	Feb 2018	#204
It probably sounds however you want it to . . .	hatrack	Feb 2018	#210
Sounds like what's best for everyone...	Baconator	Feb 2018	#211
This message was self-deleted by its author	TNLib	Feb 2018	#212
Forgot #7 You're trying to take	retread	Feb 2018	#221

Response to Baconator (Original post)

Mon Feb 19, 2018, 07:28 PM

Iggo (46,444 posts)

6 Reasons Your Right-Wing Friend Isnt Coming To Your Side On Gun Control

1. Fuck 'em. Don't care.

6. I guess we can safely put you in the "Just want to fight" category...

9. Nope.

13. Same difference...

95. You volunteering to go door to door?

12. There is nothing to fight about. Kids are getting murdered in schools. If they need me to kiss

15. How do you expect to get from A to B (whatever that is)...

20. You are dealing here with a Republican party that doesn't negotiate

25. Have you read "How Democracies Die"?

71. What's your point?

102. We're not dealing the repugs of the 80s, even the 90s. Were you paying attention at all since 2000?

158. "You are dealing here with a Republican party that doesn't negotiate"

161. The ramification is that it's a waste of time to negotiate with them

99. This is the only way to deal with this problem with Republicans

79. +1. nt

128. Your article contained ZERO strategies for reducing massacres. Not my problem?

38. I agree. At this point, I could give a flying fuck about what they want.

69. Bingo. Fuck em.

2. Not true

3. I thought this was an important article when I saw it earlier this morning.

35. If you read the Federalist you are not a Democrat

48. No true Scotsman, eh?

51. Federalist is billionaire-funded propaganda

80. The source is inconsequential

85. I was unfamiliar w/The Federalist, so just took a look. It's not a legit source.

148. Name one time when ANYONE has called for the right to "have an open discussion"

159. I believe that we

151. Have we learned nothing? The source is ALWAYS consequential.

160. We have learned a significant amount of things but perhaps

162. I have, indeed, completed all the learning that there is to find from trollish sites like

81. I've never read it, but it's been my observation....

4. I am an advocate of the 2nd amendment that also believes in gun control

115. Exactly.

5. What do you find helpful there?

8. Uh huh... Just now...? This very moment?

16. What if it was?

21. I did in the OP...

24. I see

26. If your goal is for your opponent to just give up and think like you do...

45. My goal?

130. You claim that you aren't responsible for others...

28. About 15 here

42. About 15 what?

138. The perspective of the other side is that they have already given up too much.

41. Yes, Federalist, who funds you?? Even conservatives question this pub

7. Kids arendying in scholl and we have to coddle gun owners? Fuck that!

10. The same way we have to coddle racists and misogynists.

11. Pretty accurate article.

30. I'm embarrassed sometimes when I'm at party meetings at the rhetoric and disinformation that I

33. The Federalist is pure propaganda

64. Yes, Federalist is a right-wing rag. That doesn't mean everything they say is inherently false.

67. No. It means what they say is propaganda.

72. Even propaganda can be correct.

74. Yes. Thats why you note the sources bias

14. 7) their cowardice trumps all sense

43. and 8) they have teeny weeny tiny

44. dead children don't bother them

17. LOL. That's just 6 different ways of saying what they've always said: "Your thousands of dead

18. Nothing new in any of that. I do agree

34. Yup. Propaganda. Schindler: Federalist less subtle than RT or Sputnik

19. Screw these worthless killers and those who support them vocally or tacitly.

37. You constantly post the same few pictures....while you

55. Well, glad you are over here from Discussionist to see them.

66. That's some sad deflection....

88. Here...

119. Tell Ya What, OldGeezer

164. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 and then some.

187. Interesting....I just pointed out Hoyt's fallacy...the racial 1 he CONSTANTLY

189. Of Course I Dispute Your Assertion

190. What "...facist and racist crap..." have I EVER posted here?

40. Just look at these losers!

54. Your argument seems to be lumping every gun owner and supporter into the same bin

56. At this point, unless you are supporting gun control, you ARE in the same bin.

58. Exactly. It's like a trump supporter claiming they aren't racist. If you tolerate

61. I'd also kind of like to know: what is a "gun supporter." Is that like the ladies

60. Give your definition of gun control please

63. Stop that NRA bullshit. There is plenty of consensus. There are many measures that huge majorities

90. I want to know what you think

92. Really, not interested in having these NRA inspired list discussions. They always end up