When all is said and done, the takeaway will be: Dont fuck with the United States.

[FreepFryer]

War is war, after all.

Believe that.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Exactly what does that mean? nt

[mucifer]

2. Sounds like the OP doesn't believe the russians will win. I'm not so sure.

[FreepFryer]

4. They wont win. But its not for me to give you courage, u need to find that within urself. nt

[Hortensis]

11. Agree with all. But war is scary. There are no

sergeants in this one to kick us into shape and keep us pointed in the right direction. At least in past centuries threats had physical presences that could be seen.

[FreepFryer]

14. We have, and are, those leaders. Be the change you want to see in the world musters much.

[Hortensis]

17. Yes, sir! :)

Agree completely, and I keep my undies all pulled up.

But it's still somewhat scary, even though I do really expect to win out over the forces of darkness that have taken over the right, both here and in Russia.

[FreepFryer]

20. Im right alongside - were in this together, and we have the home field advantage.

It’s gonna be an accomplishment that we will be proud of having been a part of.

[Hortensis]

21. Oh, I love that thought. But it will of course be true.

[FreepFryer]

47. Maybe the most important thing is to live each day aspirationally towards that end. Nt

[trotsky]

12. The thing that worries me is it's not really the "Russians."

It's the oligarchs, of both our nations.

[FreepFryer]

13. Agreed, they consider themselves supranational. But as with prior corporatist fantasies, arent (n/t)

[FreepFryer]

3. A deterrent framework is, and will be, an inevitable outcome of this investigation. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

5. you said war nt

[FreepFryer]

6. Yes I did. It is a war now. A hybrid information war, selfdescribed by the Kremlin. Do you disagree?

Preventing the war from continuing by making it unacceptable to your opponent to continue, and preventing future wars from starting by making them unwise to undertake is what a deterrent framework is intended to achieve.

The May 17 order from deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein appointing Mueller as special counsel to lead the FBI’s Russia probe called the move part of the Justice Department’s effort “to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.”

And that was the core question Mueller returned to Friday, with an indictment that detailed a Russian “information warfare” operation that sowed dissent and confusion among American voters to the benefit of Trump and the detriment of his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/mueller-indictment-russia-information-warfare-416378

[Funtatlaguy]

7. It will depend on two things

How many Republicans will put country before party.
Will Dems take back the House

[FreepFryer]

8. Agreed... but those determine the timeline - not the likelihood - of our decisive response.

it will take as long as it will take, but this is not - nor will it ever be - a client state of Russia.

We know who we are, and we know who they are.

[roscoeroscoe]

9. Cyberpunk

The future war is here. William Gibson, John Brunner, or Phillip K. Dick could have done justice to this far-fetched plot.

[FreepFryer]

10. Indeed. Good news is, they sold a lot of books to a lot of bright, loyal Americans with computers :)

[Leghorn21]

15. No stopping till Moscow

Thanks, FF

[FreepFryer]

16. +10000000000000000000. Right back at you, Leghorn! (n/t)

[Hortensis]

18. Love it! Much less dramatic, but you know Putin and his

cronies are losing untold fortunes as their money launderers are being rolled up by various nations and their assets seized. They're not exactly broke (!), but they're certainly taking losses and enraged. Shame it takes so long to do these things according to the law, but that is what we're fighting to hold onto after all.

[FreepFryer]

19. Agreed 10000%. Putin and his cronies are not laughing. War is deadly serious - and costly - for all.

We had undeclared war waged upon us, and we are only beginning to internalize and act upon the experience.

One way forward from here to achieve peace without existential defeat is for all combatants to be brought to equally appreciate and experience that cost.

Thats exactly what is happening for those within and without who did this to our Republic.

[Hortensis]

22. Yes, and only the beginning. Putin's ambitions

are existential threats to many nations, and the successful election hacking in the U.S. shook the planet. Reportedly, not everyone's happy in Russia with their non-returns on the enormous risks they've taken electing Trump either.

Putin was in danger of losing power a few years ago, and he will be again. His reelection won't matter squat should his fellow kleptocrats ultimately decide he's costing them too much money and freedom. Putin's now reportedly worried that he won't win reelection this March by the 70% turnout he boasted. Polls are predicting more like 50%. If he doesn't he looks weak; not good. They're pouring money into distant regions to get the power on more reliably, etc., and the people less unhappy with their faraway centralized government.

And now reportedly they're detecting increasing western intelligence electronic activity, causing them to worry their election might be hacked.

[FreepFryer]

23. Regime change begets regime change, and we invented this propaganda marketing juggernaut.

There are many good Russian people who are hoping for the outcome you describe - perhaps it will help us achieve greater world peace to struggle as a planet through this minor age of kakistocrats

[Initech]

48. No sleep till Novgorod?

Somehow that doesn't have the same ring to it!

[FreepFryer]

56. :) works for me, but such wordplay is our Vladivostok-in-trade (n/t) :)

[NCTraveler]

24. I do believe this. K&R nt.

[FreepFryer]

29. Rock on!

[maxsolomon]

25. I don't believe this

this exposes us as naïve children who designed the tools of our own destruction.

It is a war. they fucked with us, and we just shrugged.

[FreepFryer]

27. You may be shrugging. Others are not. And u r 100% correct this is our creation turned upon us.

We are far from naive, nor are we children. We are informed citizens of a representative democracy and we love and honor our nation enough to sacrifice on its behalf when it is defrauded or its constitution is violated.

We have to get inappropriate foreign/corporate money and influence out of politics, protect our free press from consolidation and manipulation, get the economy and environment stabilized and healthy, promote equality for all and get guns out of schools. Sounds like a busy few decades ahead!

If u see urself as a shrugging child, maybe u need to give yourself more credit... u made it to DU, after all! You must be a warrior somewhere deep down.

[maxsolomon]

32. "We" America as a whole.

"We" won't see there is a war because "we" cannot admit our mistakes (electing a compromised Autocrat). I meet naïve Trumpists all the time. They swallow the lies hook line and sinker.

Go ahead and be an Optimist if you must, but not many countries pull themselves out of the slide into Autocracy without hitting a bottom deeper than this.

Yes, I know America has pushed several Nations into Autocracy, and we probably deserve our comeuppance.

[FreepFryer]

33. I dont think we have hit bottom, but I know who we are and what we are capable of...

And this ain’t nowhere near the limit. We are going to use it as an opportunity to focus on civic responsibility and integrity, and to ensure our grandkids are safer than we are.

We can do it, and we will - that’s who we are. And foe first time in a long time, the wackos with the hoods and torches, machine guns and media outlets, are to be proven complicit in a foreign psponsored enterprise to undermine our nation.

I’m not a capital O optimist, I just know my history, my neighbors, my values and my power.

[maxsolomon]

34. Sincere Question:

how old are you? I'm 54, and we've been regressing into a RW dystopia my entire adult life. Reagan was elected when I was 17.

Yet I've never held my country (or my family) in such low regard as I do now. I've been plenty pissed off prior to now: 9/11, the Invasion of Iraq, Clinton's Impeachment, Iran/Contra, etc.

But this is a new low.

[FreepFryer]

46. the way forward is to cherish, rather than lowly regard, the nation.

Epochs change this way, and we are both philosophically and practically right in our effort. Whataboutism is BS, we are a fundamentally different nation than Russia and this shit, stoking American instability around race and crime in the wake of the first Black president, will come down upon their heads in ways they are already beginning to fear.

[maxsolomon]

53. So you're very very old then.

got it.

[FreepFryer]

54. A wild (and incorrect) guess, perhaps to make you feel better about your own cynical views...

My age isn’t your business, nor particularly relevant by the way.

Civic responsibility and belief in the capacity for triumph of American democracy is not the sole province of the “very very old.”

Quite the opposite.

[maxsolomon]

55. Ok, duck the question then, whippersnapper.

I don't feel better about my cynicism. Does being a Pollyanna make you "feel better"?

I feel that I'm realistic about what we're up against 70 years out from WW2 - a Fascist impulse that is innate to Human Nature.

It has complete control of Russia as it re-asserts its empire, and Trumpists are embracing it with glee.

[FreepFryer]

57. Im not a PollyAnna, I just dont accept false limitations on what Americans can do...

...to protect each other, our nation and our world. We have so much potential, and power - and this look into a dark future is just what we need to snap out of what has become for many a sense of disappointment entitlement. We have to fight for liberty, every generation has to.

We can absolutely do this.

[ooky]

26. If that does become the takeaway, it wont be from anything Lying President did.

He is a coward.

[FreepFryer]

28. Just like so many people serving faithfully in government right now,

We will have to serve our nation despite the president, rather than on his behalf.

That’s why the oath is to the Constitution.

[Cha]

30. Even if you're the rigged in pospotus..

by russia

[FreepFryer]

31. Even if, or ESPECIALLY if :). (n/t)

[Cha]

35. Yeah, I like your Title, FreepFryer

Thank you!

[FreepFryer]

41. Thanks Cha! Nice to meet you!

[Cha]

44. Cheers!

Do not fuck with the USA!

I bet a lot of IC and Dems everywhere are thinking that in so many words.

[FreepFryer]

45. And republicans. Truth be told, there is a shitload of buyers remorse irrespective of his treason.

There are a lot of paths forward and at the right time, Americans will cross the aisle to clean up this atrocity.

We can and will protect and denazify the nation.

[Cha]

49. Good to know.. I

see the ones like Rick Wilson and David Jolly.. I hope more and more are seeing this treason by trump for what it is.. in spite of fux "news" and its ilk

[FreepFryer]

50. The religious wackos love his virulent anti lgbt and the nazis love his racist antics ...

But republicans know they are just frogs on his log. The ones that stick too hard or too long will get rolled over or drown.

[Skittles]

37. AMERICA IS STRONGER THAN DONALD FUCKING TRUMP

yes we are

[FreepFryer]

39. THIS x 7.7 billion humans

[Iggo]

38. I hope so.

But the reality on the ground right now is: "Look how easy it was to fuck with the United States."

[FreepFryer]

40. Whose ground? Frankly I WANT Russia deceived into thinking we are not acting right now.

Until we convince them otherwise.

[Iggo]

42. They installed a Russian agent in the motherfucking White House, in case you hadn't noticed.

[FreepFryer]

43. Nope, Ive been busy with other stfu. (n/t)

[former9thward]

51. What war are you talking about?

There are so many...

[FreepFryer]

52. Please see comment #6. :)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210261700#post6

[DavidDvorkin]

58. Rah, rah, sis boom bah.

[FreepFryer]

59. Lol. More like...