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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThat couple the Florida killer was living with
I saw them interviewed in a video clip this morning on CBS.
They knew he had mental issues.
They knew the 19 year old had 5 or 7 guns.
They knew he had an AR-15.
They themselves own a number of guns.
Said it's everyone's right to own guns, including military assault weapons.
Were shocked something happened.
dhol82
(9,351 posts)Thats what Adam Lanza did.
Girard442
(6,058 posts)This country has gone so far off the rails that a troubled teen owning an arsenal that would make a mercenary soldier proud doesn't even make a blip on the radar.
onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)no_hypocrisy
(45,759 posts)It's one reason why Mary Surratt was charged, tried and convicted of for harboring the conspirators of the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.
NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)They didnt know he was going to commit a murder, and they only gave him shelter - they didnt arm him.
no_hypocrisy
(45,759 posts)should not have access to weapons for example.
NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)It requires knowledge of intent to commit a felony, and substantial assistance. These people didn't know he was thinking of being a mass shooter, and if we assume they had such knowledge they didn't give him a gun, ammo, or help him get to the scene of the crime. Hell, the Uber driver who dropped him off at the school gave more substantial assistance than they did. Though he also had no knowledge of the intent to commit a felony.
Going back to the couple - the shooter isn't their child or under their guardianship. He was just one of several million emotionally unstable adults fascinated with guns around the country, as fucked up as that is.
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)I bet they felt very safe since they themselves are armed.
Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage.
They were SHOCKED that he lied to them and kept an extra key to the safe. Why would someone who wanted to slaughter a bunch of innocent humans lie?
They're a couple of morons. I had thought they felt guilty, but since they're essentially saying they had no problem with the fact he owned guns.....as it was his right......I think they have blood on their hands too.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,145 posts)Classy.
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)Than wishing a murderer had killed more people
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)According to them, he had every right to all the guns. Typical gun lovers.
I doubt they realize how close they came to being his 18th & 19th victims.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Nothing demonstrates a commitment to ending gun violence..."
No more and no less than merely owning a gun (excuses and rationalizations aside, that is).
mythology
(9,527 posts)Owning a gun is not.
maxrandb
(15,187 posts)Hate radio and the gun humpers.
Spare me the fake outrage
sarisataka
(18,197 posts)I am a terrorist last week, an I also a pre-murderer?
I'm not recommending anyone be killed, I'd be happy with many less deaths
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage.
They were SHOCKED that he lied to them and kept an extra key to the safe. Why would someone who wanted to slaughter a bunch of innocent humans lie?
They're a couple of morons. I had thought they felt guilty, but since they're essentially saying they had no problem with the fact he owned guns.....as it was his right......I think they have blood on their hands too.
Retrotech
(38 posts)What?
nolabear
(41,915 posts)I might have alerted on three things in all my time here. That wish for their deaths was horrific.
Kali
(54,990 posts)"Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage."
fucking disgusting!
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)The fact that your post has not been deleted is just more disgusting.
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)Calculating
(2,954 posts)Nothing speaks class quite like wishing more people had died.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)Not to mention their fellow Floridians.
Vinca
(50,168 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)Last week
I knew they were wrong
dembotoz
(16,734 posts)i like cats, i love cats.
in some places kids get kicked out of the house on a rather common occurrence.
my sons friends knew who would take them in and who would not.
bless those who did
GusBob
(7,286 posts)Having read what this couple said do you still give them support or the benefit of the doubt?
dembotoz
(16,734 posts)They come with baggage. They just do.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)this kid. This place is full of after the fact experts. Stupid.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)These gun humpers harbored him and and his weapons
They didnt point the rifle and pull the trigger, but they oiled the machine and left the safety off.
I'll make another prediction: they are liars.
I hope they get sued into poverty
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)The least among us ... these people took in a troubled child. No, I dont think they made the right choice with the guns, but they were trying to help a troubled child.
this whole thread should be deleted
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)these gun humping grifters likely had dollar signs in their eyes. I knew they were covering up for something
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Glad you can read people's minds.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)Its called common sense and instinct. the minute I heard a teenager shot up a school, I believed he had some adults behind him that enabled it or failed in some way to stop it
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)You believed or assumed? Listen, they could have refused to let Cruz stay there, but he would have still had his guns, and probably only been more angry. I don't have any weapons in my house, I raised my three sons to be pacifists. But it sounds like you may be blaming the good Samaritans here, even if they weren't the smartest Samaritans.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)I'm telling you again, something fishy is up with these folks
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)and Breitbart 'news'. etc..
And may even have believed that Sandy Hook was a all a hoax. (And probably still do. )
Baconator
(1,459 posts)samir.g
(835 posts)and families.
IthinkThereforeIAM
(3,072 posts)... and then some installment payments to make for 10 years on the rest of the judgement. I know that sounds mean, but then I have friends who lost their job, had a car loan...
hunter
(38,263 posts)There's nothing normal about this kind of gun love.
Chakaconcarne
(2,383 posts)i saw interviews with neighbors talking about missing pets, police frequently at the house...though could have been at previous house....
unless there was glaring evidence, don't we need to give them the benefit of the doubt.?
orangecrush
(19,236 posts)I don't think they had a clue this would happen.
Their lives have been upended.
I heard the Father say he thought he had the only key to the gun safe.
Can we have some basic decency, please?
B2G
(9,766 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)These people didn't even know how many guns Cruz had, yet father claims it was Cruz's right to have an AR-15 and he he still thinks that even after what took place.
""He was coming into your house and you didn't know how many guns he had?" Blackstone asked."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-snead-host-family-speaks/
Kali
(54,990 posts)won't bring the dead back.
this place can be as cold and cruel as any at times. thanks for having real compassion.
orangecrush
(19,236 posts)Knew you'd understand.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)orangecrush
(19,236 posts)I don't know any exceptions.
I don't believe they wanted this any more than anyone else.
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)but I don't think they're villians. They tried to help this kid. I think they were blindsided.
Disturbing interview.
orangecrush
(19,236 posts)They are probably still in shock.
Not a good time to grant a media interview.
hueymahl
(2,414 posts)I know anger and wanting vengeance in a situation like this is normal. I appreciate your compassion. That family is going to be be haunted the rest of their lives.
orangecrush
(19,236 posts)for letting me know I'm not alone.
bdjhawk
(420 posts)Where did they think the other one was?
When their story first came out, it was that they forced him to lock up his gun but gave him a key. Now they are saying they didn't know he had a key. It was their locker--they should have had control of both keys. I'm not believing their story that they didn't know he had a key.
Catherine Vincent
(34,485 posts)They, especially the husband, appeared to be on the defensive. I'm not blaming them but a bell should have gone off. And I am sure the killer wasn't always nice.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Yes they were part of the screw up. However:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-family-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html
They took him in because he was there son's friend. His last parent had died and he was depressed.
They made an effort to get him in therapy.
They made him buy a locking gun safe to keep the guns in. The rule was he could not take them out without permission (This was their screw up. Somehow he got his own key.)
To their knowledge he had only taken the guns out once.
They taught him how to cook.
They were driving him to adult education classes every day.
He was on a path to join the army.
There are plenty of villains in this story. I'm just not so sure we should be painting these folks with such a broad brush.
Read the article. I feel sorry for them...not anger.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)I have to say, I thought they had a remarkably blasé attitude about gun ownership; however, he was an adult and they had no way of legally telling him what to do. The most off-putting thing to me was that they thought it was totally normal for him to own an AR-15 (or 16, I keep hearing both) and seemed to shrug off the idea that it might be a problem.
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)I listen to sports radio in Chicago.
There was a caller in the last week who commented on this topic.
He said the first gun he ever had was an M16 when he joined the Army.
When he got out of the Army, he bought an AR15 because it was the weapon he know.
What I am getting at here is that it is not uncommon for folks to be comfortable with AR15's. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ban them. It just means that being comfortable around a weapon doesn't make you a villain.
If you read the article the mom of that family lunged at him in the only time they saw him after the shooting.
I do think they made mistakes.
I'm just trying to say I don't think it's necessarily correct to cast them as villains...villanous behavior requires either wrecklessnes or intent.
I don't see that when I read about that family.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)By the way father claims he believes Cruz had a right to have an AR-15.
LisaM
(27,758 posts)They seem to also have plenty of weapons of their own. If I saw them walking down the street, I would never peg them as the type to have any sort of arsenal in their house.
It's that attitude that - to me - is most reflective of where the divide lies. I can only recall one - one! - friend growing up whose family had guns. The father was a police officer, and the guns were all kept in a locked cabinet or case. We all steered clear of it and the most I remember about it is that it was there. It was blindingly clear that no one was ever to touch it.
I suppose I had other friends whose families went hunting and they must have had some guns somewhere, but I never saw them and they were certainly never used for anything else. This notion that having these weapons around is at all normal is at complete odds with how I see things.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)kcr
(15,300 posts)Their actions showed a total and stunning lack of judgment on their part. They need a lawyer to tell them to keep their dumb mouths shut now, or a better one if they already do.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)They probably should have appreciated the risks.
But that is hind sight, and that is 20/20.
Nobody thinks it is going to happen. Denial no doubt.
They are probably devistated.
I have fostered. And i know others who have had very difficult times. It is not easy dealing with damaged kids
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... a kid who is that depressed have weapons in their house?
Something aint right here
LisaL
(44,962 posts)These people admit they didn't even know how many guns he had.
liberal N proud
(60,298 posts)They showed no remorse and saw no wrong in him owning assault weapons.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)in the will, said she kicked him out because she wouldn't allow his gun in -- and so he left with his gun.
Is she at fault because sometime after he left with his gun, he used it? No. She didn't cause him to use it. And neither is the couple at fault, the couple who let him stay with them, and then sometime after he came to them he took the gun and used it. They didn't cause him to use it.
If they had kicked him out, like the first woman, he would have taken his gun and could still have used it -- whether he had a roof over his head, or not. If they had kicked him out he could have headed over to the high school the next day and started shooting, just as he eventually did.
Multiple reports say they thought they had the only key to the gun safe. So they were as shocked as everyone else when he was able to use the gun without their knowledge.
The fault lies with those who enact the gun laws that allowed him to own the guns in the first place; and with the state systems that repeatedly to act when warnings of his dangerousness were voiced.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)""You thought it was fine for a 19-year-old to have an AR-15?" Blackstone asked.
"It's his right to have it," James said."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-snead-host-family-speaks/
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)he could have still done the shooting.
I would have probably reacted more like the first woman, and not taken him in, but I don't blame the couple. They thought the gun was under lock and key and that they had the only key. They were wrong. But the only people they had put at risk were themselves. It wasn't their fault he eventually used the gun that he had legally purchased and that more than one state agency decided not to take away from him.
JI7
(89,172 posts)Stay with her so they could have sex ? Would you think people should let her do that ?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)JI7
(89,172 posts)Bringing in a guy to have sex with .
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)has nothing to do with his ability to Uber himself and his gun-filled backpack to the school and do the shooting. (Yes -- he did use Uber.)
He could have done that whether he was living under a friend's roof or on the streets somewhere.
JI7
(89,172 posts)So parents and other guardians should just let then do it in their home.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)let someone into my house with guns -- but that doesn't mean his shooting is the fault of the couple who let him in their home.
JI7
(89,172 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I see no reason for any civilian to own a weapon of war.
kcr
(15,300 posts)You are merely rationalizing bad judgment. It's the kind of thinking that leads to bad decisions like being the fun party house means being the safe house because at least you know what's going on. What's really going on is a reliving of youth and being the fun parents that everyone loves. Who wants to be the bad meanie?
They were trying to help out their kid's friend, but they weren't doing so in a thoughtful rational way, and he did have a place to stay. He just didn't want to. Cruz didn't want to stay at his stuffy old family friends house with the rules so he hightailed it to Freedumb Gun House!
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)would have reduced the chance that he'd go on a shooting spree?
What WOULD have reduced the chances are much stronger gun laws that wouldn't allow a mentally disturbed 19 year old to buy a gun in the first place.
kcr
(15,300 posts)Is that really your argument? See, ideally not only would she kick him out but she should have been able to immediately alert authorities - and who knows, maybe she did just like so many had already done before, multiple times - and put a stop to everything. But this is Freedumb Guns Galore America where nothing happens.
No, she does not have an obligation to host guns in her home just because someone else might do it anyway so it might as well be her. For one thing, they're a danger to anyone in her home, including herself. She had every right to impose that rule and hope he'd comply.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I'm not a gun person and wouldn't have been comfortable inviting him into my home. There was an increased risk to the family in their home.
BUT that doesn't mean that the friend's parents' giving this young man a roof over his head caused him to go on his shooting spree. It would have been just as likely, maybe even more, if he were living on the streets.
I just read that there had been 19 reports to various state agencies about this young man. Kicking him out, and making another report, wouldn't have been likely to make the people of Parkland any safer. So it's not fair to blame this family for their decision to try to help him. They didn't CAUSE him to shoot up the school.
kcr
(15,300 posts)I think the argument is they were huge idiots for letting him keep them. They are obviously steeped in gun culture in such an extreme way that this further enabled Cruz. They unwittingly offered him a safe haven so he could perpetrate this crime. Instead of realizing their error they are doubling down, insisting they were right to let him keep his guns. That's insane.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)they were enabling the shooting. And I disagree. Setting him lose on the community with a backpack loaded with guns wouldn't reduce the chance of a shooting.
kcr
(15,300 posts)I think you're confusing enabling with causing. No reasonable person would simply allow a 19 year old willy nilly to move on in with a gun collection including a semi-auto without question. Their decision was reckless and beyond stupid and enabled him to make his choice. But I don't believe they had a clue he was going to do it and I haven't seen anyone else claim that either.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)to put them in a locked gun safe and they mistakenly thought they had the only key.
That wasn't "enabling" him any more than if they sent him out into the street with his backpack. If they had been right about having the only key, that would have protected the community more than if he were roaming the parks with his backpack.
Dictionary.com
verb (used with object), enabled, enabling.
1.
to make able; give power, means, competence, or ability to; authorize:
This document will enable him to pass through the enemy lines unmolested.
2.
to make possible or easy:
Aeronautics enables us to overcome great distances.
3.
to make ready; equip (often used in combination):
web-enabled cell phones.
spanone
(135,627 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)The first woman barred him from her house, but that didn't stop him from shooting up the school eventually. Was it her fault because she kicked him out? Of course not.
So why is the couple who tried to help him at fault? They thought the gun was locked up. They thought they had the only key. And they weren't the ones who allowed him to buy the gun in the first place -- that was the state.
Baconator
(1,459 posts)obamanut2012
(25,905 posts)You people in this thread are ridiculous.
del19713
(6 posts)Yet they let him own an arsenal at their home. The first family that took him in refused to let him keep the guns at their house. So he moved on to somewhere that would let him have his guns. I first read that the shooter had a key to the gun safe he was of age and allowed to have guns. Somehow the story changed so there was only one key to a new gun safe he just bought. Is that normal? Also, it seems like a campaign to let them live in the neighborhood again. I think they just better move, also the son the friend of the shooter he knew how many problems that the shooter was having what was it 45 arrests. I believe all the families will sue that family civilly and rightly so.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)Are they responsible? Of course not.
Neither family is, because whether he lived in a house or lived in a park, he was a ticking time bomb. If this couple had barred their door, he could have just gone to the school and shot it up the next day. As it is, he lasted a few months after his mother's death before he cracked.
Who is responsible? The lawmakers who passed the gun laws. The agencies to which people reported their concerns about him -- and decided he wasn't a hazard.
But not the couple who was just trying to help him.
lsewpershad
(2,620 posts)To cover their own asses, me think.
Chimichurri
(2,911 posts)And gave him weapons and trips to shooting ranges as a way to connect with him.
They are just as much to blame. That sound insensitive but how can they say he was a model child when authorities visited his home 39 times and he was expelled from school?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)or allow him free access to his or theirs. He bought the guns, legally, from a gun store.
When their son asked them to take him in, they didn't bar the door. They required him to keep his guns in a separate locked safe, to which they thought they had the only key.
How is this the same as the deliberate decisions that Lanza's mother made?
kcr
(15,300 posts)They aren't obligated to him the way parents are to their own children, and they also aren't going to have the same blind spots the way many if not most parents do with their children, even parents of children with mental health issues. I have a hard time understanding why they didn't question why a 19 year old wanted or needed 7 guns including an AR-15? That's mind-boggling. I thought it was bad enough when it was just the AR-15. They just let him move on in with all his little friends.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)uponit7771
(90,225 posts)... doesn't make a lot of sense to me
NutmegYankee
(16,177 posts)Police were called to his moms house and he was expelled under her care. He only lived with the couple since late November, 3 months.