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left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 05:54 PM Feb 2018

That couple the Florida killer was living with

I saw them interviewed in a video clip this morning on CBS.

They knew he had mental issues.

They knew the 19 year old had 5 or 7 guns.
They knew he had an AR-15.

They themselves own a number of guns.

Said it's everyone's right to own guns, including military assault weapons.

Were shocked something happened.

107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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That couple the Florida killer was living with (Original Post) left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 OP
They are lucky he did not take them out first dhol82 Feb 2018 #1
Said this elsewhere... Girard442 Feb 2018 #2
Fucking morons onecaliberal Feb 2018 #3
They should be charged with facilitation of a crime. no_hypocrisy Feb 2018 #4
The very definition provided clearly makes them not guilty. NutmegYankee Feb 2018 #8
There are degrees of "knowledge". Having a suspicion that someone with mental and emotional issues no_hypocrisy Feb 2018 #9
Which isn't even remotely close to the requirements of the crime cited NutmegYankee Feb 2018 #44
Their Own Guns Would Have Protected Them....LOL!! SoCalMusicLover Feb 2018 #5
"Too bad he didn't shoot them"? WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2018 #11
Nothing demonstrates a commitment to ending gun violence sarisataka Feb 2018 #14
They Said They Would Not Have Done Anything Different SoCalMusicLover Feb 2018 #17
+1 Sickening to see such a comment posted here. grossproffit Feb 2018 #19
No more and no less than merely owning a gun. LanternWaste Feb 2018 #25
One is literally calling for people to be killed mythology Feb 2018 #29
Maybe we're learning our rhetoric from Faux News maxrandb Feb 2018 #107
I was told sarisataka Feb 2018 #31
I cannot believe I read that either. Tipperary Feb 2018 #103
That's pretty fucked up. Thanks for posting this. AtheistCrusader Feb 2018 #15
Quoting for posterity X_Digger Feb 2018 #16
"Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage. " Retrotech Feb 2018 #20
I wish I could have found an alert category. nolabear Feb 2018 #52
you should self delete this Kali Feb 2018 #54
You are a disgusting human being. MicaelS Feb 2018 #77
You should self delete this ugly, shameful post. Tipperary Feb 2018 #104
Keeping it classy huh Calculating Feb 2018 #106
Idiots. I know they tried to help, but they failed him badly. SunSeeker Feb 2018 #6
The idiots were lucky they weren't shot before he left for the school. That's the usual MO. Vinca Feb 2018 #7
Seems to me there were some DUers falling all over themselves defending them GusBob Feb 2018 #10
i am one of them..this place goes batshit over a stray kitten, stray teen? not so much dembotoz Feb 2018 #12
Except this has nothing at all to do with cats, you, your son or his friends GusBob Feb 2018 #13
Couple years ago I took in a soon to be homeless acquaintance dembotoz Feb 2018 #67
You have no idea what the parents knew. So easy to blame them. They tried to help.... USALiberal Feb 2018 #70
The fact is Cruz is a white supremacist and a terrorist GusBob Feb 2018 #76
Typical lynch mob mentality here. nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #80
exactly HopeAgain Feb 2018 #81
Thank you, I agree! Nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #82
It is being reported the kid has an inheritance of $800K GusBob Feb 2018 #99
But youre not judging without all the facts... HopeAgain Feb 2018 #100
Things do not occur in a vacuum GusBob Feb 2018 #101
Cruz was technically an adult, legally in possession of the guns. HopeAgain Feb 2018 #102
Turns out the kid is worth $800K GusBob Feb 2018 #98
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that these people listen to InfoWars and other CT shows LiberalLovinLug Feb 2018 #18
Based on what exactly? Baconator Feb 2018 #87
I hope they are sued into poverty by the victims samir.g Feb 2018 #21
Or at least for an amount equaling the value of their gun collection... IthinkThereforeIAM Feb 2018 #78
This is what happens when gun fetishes are normalized. hunter Feb 2018 #22
whether true or not they have to respond this way. Chakaconcarne Feb 2018 #23
They took in a troubled kid orangecrush Feb 2018 #24
Nope. Evidently too much to ask. Nt B2G Feb 2018 #38
Cruz was the one who purchased the safe. LisaL Feb 2018 #41
revenge outrage Kali Feb 2018 #55
Thanks Kali orangecrush Feb 2018 #72
Why would they have a troubled kid with guns in their house safe or not ?! tia uponit7771 Feb 2018 #59
People make mistakes. orangecrush Feb 2018 #73
I think they made mistakes mountain grammy Feb 2018 #79
totally agree orangecrush Feb 2018 #85
Thanks hueymahl Feb 2018 #66
Thank you orangecrush Feb 2018 #71
They knew there were two keys to the gun locker-it was their locker bdjhawk Feb 2018 #26
I saw some of the interview as well Catherine Vincent Feb 2018 #27
This is not a fair characterization of that family GitRDun Feb 2018 #28
They also weren't his guardians. I saw an interview with them this morning. LisaM Feb 2018 #30
I hear you I really do GitRDun Feb 2018 #33
They also weren't obligated to let him to live in their house, keeping multiple guns in his room. LisaL Feb 2018 #42
That was what most struck me - that owning an AR-15 seemed normal to them. LisaM Feb 2018 #53
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2018 #62
It's an AR-15. AR-16 was never put into production. LisaL Feb 2018 #74
I agree. I was in their corner too, but that interview is making it hard for me to stay there. kcr Feb 2018 #86
Thank you. ollie10 Feb 2018 #37
He bought the safe himself, those safes comes with two keys. Why would they allow uponit7771 Feb 2018 #60
Exactly. He purchased the safe, safe was in his room. LisaL Feb 2018 #75
I saw the interview, it made me sick liberal N proud Feb 2018 #32
It made no difference. The first woman who took him in, the woman who had been named pnwmom Feb 2018 #34
You are defending the guy who to this day thinks Cruz had a right to own an AR-15. LisaL Feb 2018 #39
I am defending logic. Whether he had a roof over his head or was living in the park, pnwmom Feb 2018 #46
What of a 19 year old female wanted to have a 35 year old man she met JI7 Feb 2018 #50
Does that scenario have anything to do with the Cruz case? pnwmom Feb 2018 #56
I imagine those who are ok with bringing the guns would not be ok with 19 year old JI7 Feb 2018 #57
But whether they were okay with the guns in their house or not pnwmom Feb 2018 #61
So what ? 19 year old girls can go somewhere else to have sex JI7 Feb 2018 #65
But that has nothing to do with the situation. I clearly said above that I wouldn't have pnwmom Feb 2018 #68
There is still something seriously wrong with it and what they are NOW saying JI7 Feb 2018 #69
Do you think Cruz had a right to own an AR-15? LisaL Feb 2018 #58
I think he legally had the right and he shouldn't. The laws should have been changed long ago. pnwmom Feb 2018 #63
There is nothing logical about this argument kcr Feb 2018 #89
Can you explain how kicking him out of the house with his gun, like the first woman did, pnwmom Feb 2018 #90
So, host someone with a bunch of guns because someone's going to do it anyway? kcr Feb 2018 #91
I've said more than once that I probably would have reacted like the first woman. pnwmom Feb 2018 #92
I don't think anyone is arguing that they caused it. kcr Feb 2018 #94
Yeah, there ARE some people arguing that by giving him a home pnwmom Feb 2018 #95
Oh they absolutely enabled him kcr Feb 2018 #96
They didn't allow him to move in "willy nilly" with his guns. They required him pnwmom Feb 2018 #97
idiots. spanone Feb 2018 #35
They need to be prosecuted and jailed! They'll certainly be sued up the ying-yang & rightfully so. InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2018 #36
Why? Numerous people had reported him and the state agencies did nothing. pnwmom Feb 2018 #47
Well... That's just creepy and authoritarian... Baconator Feb 2018 #88
No they shouldn't, and no they won't be obamanut2012 Feb 2018 #105
Any responsible party would know you don't have guns around people that are having mental issues. del19713 Feb 2018 #40
The first family wouldn't let him in, so he left with his guns. Sometime later, he did the shooting. pnwmom Feb 2018 #49
Just lsewpershad Feb 2018 #43
Adam Lanza's mother also knew her son had mental issues Chimichurri Feb 2018 #45
The situations aren't the same at all. These people didn't give him weapons, pnwmom Feb 2018 #48
You're right, it isn't the same. But they're also not his parents kcr Feb 2018 #93
Yup. They're idiots AND liars. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #51
+1, You're severely depressed? Here, shoot a bunch of these bullets to feel better ... uponit7771 Feb 2018 #64
Youre mixing up the couple with his mom. NutmegYankee Feb 2018 #83
Owning 7 guns is a warning sign. librechik Feb 2018 #84

Girard442

(6,058 posts)
2. Said this elsewhere...
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:01 PM
Feb 2018

This country has gone so far off the rails that a troubled teen owning an arsenal that would make a mercenary soldier proud doesn't even make a blip on the radar.

no_hypocrisy

(45,759 posts)
4. They should be charged with facilitation of a crime.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:07 PM
Feb 2018
https://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-facilitation/

It's one reason why Mary Surratt was charged, tried and convicted of for harboring the conspirators of the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
8. The very definition provided clearly makes them not guilty.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:30 PM
Feb 2018

They didn’t know he was going to commit a murder, and they only gave him shelter - they didn’t arm him.

no_hypocrisy

(45,759 posts)
9. There are degrees of "knowledge". Having a suspicion that someone with mental and emotional issues
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:33 PM
Feb 2018

should not have access to weapons for example.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
44. Which isn't even remotely close to the requirements of the crime cited
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:30 PM
Feb 2018

It requires knowledge of intent to commit a felony, and substantial assistance. These people didn't know he was thinking of being a mass shooter, and if we assume they had such knowledge they didn't give him a gun, ammo, or help him get to the scene of the crime. Hell, the Uber driver who dropped him off at the school gave more substantial assistance than they did. Though he also had no knowledge of the intent to commit a felony.

Going back to the couple - the shooter isn't their child or under their guardianship. He was just one of several million emotionally unstable adults fascinated with guns around the country, as fucked up as that is.

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
5. Their Own Guns Would Have Protected Them....LOL!!
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:10 PM
Feb 2018

I bet they felt very safe since they themselves are armed.

Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage.

They were SHOCKED that he lied to them and kept an extra key to the safe. Why would someone who wanted to slaughter a bunch of innocent humans lie?

They're a couple of morons. I had thought they felt guilty, but since they're essentially saying they had no problem with the fact he owned guns.....as it was his right......I think they have blood on their hands too.

sarisataka

(18,197 posts)
14. Nothing demonstrates a commitment to ending gun violence
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:05 PM
Feb 2018

Than wishing a murderer had killed more people

 

SoCalMusicLover

(3,194 posts)
17. They Said They Would Not Have Done Anything Different
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:10 PM
Feb 2018

According to them, he had every right to all the guns. Typical gun lovers.

I doubt they realize how close they came to being his 18th & 19th victims.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
25. No more and no less than merely owning a gun.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:25 PM
Feb 2018

"Nothing demonstrates a commitment to ending gun violence..."

No more and no less than merely owning a gun (excuses and rationalizations aside, that is).

maxrandb

(15,187 posts)
107. Maybe we're learning our rhetoric from Faux News
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 02:53 PM
Feb 2018

Hate radio and the gun humpers.

Spare me the fake outrage

sarisataka

(18,197 posts)
31. I was told
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:36 PM
Feb 2018

I am a terrorist last week, an I also a pre-murderer?

I'm not recommending anyone be killed, I'd be happy with many less deaths

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
16. Quoting for posterity
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:09 PM
Feb 2018
I bet they felt very safe since they themselves are armed.

Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage.

They were SHOCKED that he lied to them and kept an extra key to the safe. Why would someone who wanted to slaughter a bunch of innocent humans lie?

They're a couple of morons. I had thought they felt guilty, but since they're essentially saying they had no problem with the fact he owned guns.....as it was his right......I think they have blood on their hands too.

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
52. I wish I could have found an alert category.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:00 PM
Feb 2018

I might have alerted on three things in all my time here. That wish for their deaths was horrific.

Kali

(54,990 posts)
54. you should self delete this
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:14 PM
Feb 2018

"Too bad he didn't shoot them early that morning, prior to his school rampage."

fucking disgusting!

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
77. You are a disgusting human being.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:53 PM
Feb 2018

The fact that your post has not been deleted is just more disgusting.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
10. Seems to me there were some DUers falling all over themselves defending them
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:37 PM
Feb 2018

Last week

I knew they were wrong

dembotoz

(16,734 posts)
12. i am one of them..this place goes batshit over a stray kitten, stray teen? not so much
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 06:48 PM
Feb 2018

i like cats, i love cats.

in some places kids get kicked out of the house on a rather common occurrence.
my sons friends knew who would take them in and who would not.

bless those who did

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
13. Except this has nothing at all to do with cats, you, your son or his friends
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:00 PM
Feb 2018

Having read what this couple said do you still give them support or the benefit of the doubt?

dembotoz

(16,734 posts)
67. Couple years ago I took in a soon to be homeless acquaintance
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:53 PM
Feb 2018

They come with baggage. They just do.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
70. You have no idea what the parents knew. So easy to blame them. They tried to help....
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:19 PM
Feb 2018

this kid. This place is full of after the fact experts. Stupid.

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
76. The fact is Cruz is a white supremacist and a terrorist
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:51 PM
Feb 2018

These gun humpers harbored him and and his weapons

They didnt point the rifle and pull the trigger, but they oiled the machine and left the safety off.

I'll make another prediction: they are liars.

I hope they get sued into poverty

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
81. exactly
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 11:39 PM
Feb 2018

The least among us ... these people took in a troubled child. No, I dont think they made the right choice with the guns, but they were trying to help a troubled child.

this whole thread should be deleted

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
99. It is being reported the kid has an inheritance of $800K
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 10:55 AM
Feb 2018

these gun humping grifters likely had dollar signs in their eyes. I knew they were covering up for something

GusBob

(7,286 posts)
101. Things do not occur in a vacuum
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 11:26 AM
Feb 2018

Its called common sense and instinct. the minute I heard a teenager shot up a school, I believed he had some adults behind him that enabled it or failed in some way to stop it

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
102. Cruz was technically an adult, legally in possession of the guns.
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 01:22 PM
Feb 2018

You believed or assumed? Listen, they could have refused to let Cruz stay there, but he would have still had his guns, and probably only been more angry. I don't have any weapons in my house, I raised my three sons to be pacifists. But it sounds like you may be blaming the good Samaritans here, even if they weren't the smartest Samaritans.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
18. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that these people listen to InfoWars and other CT shows
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:11 PM
Feb 2018

and Breitbart 'news'. etc..

And may even have believed that Sandy Hook was a all a hoax. (And probably still do. )

IthinkThereforeIAM

(3,072 posts)
78. Or at least for an amount equaling the value of their gun collection...
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:56 PM
Feb 2018

... and then some installment payments to make for 10 years on the rest of the judgement. I know that sounds mean, but then I have friends who lost their job, had a car loan...

hunter

(38,263 posts)
22. This is what happens when gun fetishes are normalized.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:14 PM
Feb 2018

There's nothing normal about this kind of gun love.

Chakaconcarne

(2,383 posts)
23. whether true or not they have to respond this way.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:20 PM
Feb 2018

i saw interviews with neighbors talking about missing pets, police frequently at the house...though could have been at previous house....

unless there was glaring evidence, don't we need to give them the benefit of the doubt.?

orangecrush

(19,236 posts)
24. They took in a troubled kid
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:23 PM
Feb 2018

I don't think they had a clue this would happen.

Their lives have been upended.

I heard the Father say he thought he had the only key to the gun safe.

Can we have some basic decency, please?

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
41. Cruz was the one who purchased the safe.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:23 PM
Feb 2018

These people didn't even know how many guns Cruz had, yet father claims it was Cruz's right to have an AR-15 and he he still thinks that even after what took place.
""He was coming into your house and you didn't know how many guns he had?" Blackstone asked."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-snead-host-family-speaks/

Kali

(54,990 posts)
55. revenge outrage
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:18 PM
Feb 2018

won't bring the dead back.
this place can be as cold and cruel as any at times. thanks for having real compassion.

orangecrush

(19,236 posts)
73. People make mistakes.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:36 PM
Feb 2018

I don't know any exceptions.

I don't believe they wanted this any more than anyone else.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
79. I think they made mistakes
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 11:05 PM
Feb 2018

but I don't think they're villians. They tried to help this kid. I think they were blindsided.

Disturbing interview.

hueymahl

(2,414 posts)
66. Thanks
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:48 PM
Feb 2018

I know anger and wanting vengeance in a situation like this is normal. I appreciate your compassion. That family is going to be be haunted the rest of their lives.

bdjhawk

(420 posts)
26. They knew there were two keys to the gun locker-it was their locker
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:27 PM
Feb 2018

Where did they think the other one was?

When their story first came out, it was that they forced him to lock up his gun but gave him a key. Now they are saying they didn't know he had a key. It was their locker--they should have had control of both keys. I'm not believing their story that they didn't know he had a key.

Catherine Vincent

(34,485 posts)
27. I saw some of the interview as well
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:28 PM
Feb 2018

They, especially the husband, appeared to be on the defensive. I'm not blaming them but a bell should have gone off. And I am sure the killer wasn't always nice.

GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
28. This is not a fair characterization of that family
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:29 PM
Feb 2018

Yes they were part of the screw up. However:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-family-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

They took him in because he was there son's friend. His last parent had died and he was depressed.

They made an effort to get him in therapy.

They made him buy a locking gun safe to keep the guns in. The rule was he could not take them out without permission (This was their screw up. Somehow he got his own key.)

To their knowledge he had only taken the guns out once.

They taught him how to cook.

They were driving him to adult education classes every day.

He was on a path to join the army.

There are plenty of villains in this story. I'm just not so sure we should be painting these folks with such a broad brush.

Read the article. I feel sorry for them...not anger.

LisaM

(27,758 posts)
30. They also weren't his guardians. I saw an interview with them this morning.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:33 PM
Feb 2018

I have to say, I thought they had a remarkably blasé attitude about gun ownership; however, he was an adult and they had no way of legally telling him what to do. The most off-putting thing to me was that they thought it was totally normal for him to own an AR-15 (or 16, I keep hearing both) and seemed to shrug off the idea that it might be a problem.



GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
33. I hear you I really do
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 07:44 PM
Feb 2018

I listen to sports radio in Chicago.

There was a caller in the last week who commented on this topic.

He said the first gun he ever had was an M16 when he joined the Army.
When he got out of the Army, he bought an AR15 because it was the weapon he know.

What I am getting at here is that it is not uncommon for folks to be comfortable with AR15's. That doesn't mean we shouldn't ban them. It just means that being comfortable around a weapon doesn't make you a villain.

If you read the article the mom of that family lunged at him in the only time they saw him after the shooting.

I do think they made mistakes.

I'm just trying to say I don't think it's necessarily correct to cast them as villains...villanous behavior requires either wrecklessnes or intent.

I don't see that when I read about that family.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
42. They also weren't obligated to let him to live in their house, keeping multiple guns in his room.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:24 PM
Feb 2018

By the way father claims he believes Cruz had a right to have an AR-15.

LisaM

(27,758 posts)
53. That was what most struck me - that owning an AR-15 seemed normal to them.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:09 PM
Feb 2018

They seem to also have plenty of weapons of their own. If I saw them walking down the street, I would never peg them as the type to have any sort of arsenal in their house.

It's that attitude that - to me - is most reflective of where the divide lies. I can only recall one - one! - friend growing up whose family had guns. The father was a police officer, and the guns were all kept in a locked cabinet or case. We all steered clear of it and the most I remember about it is that it was there. It was blindingly clear that no one was ever to touch it.

I suppose I had other friends whose families went hunting and they must have had some guns somewhere, but I never saw them and they were certainly never used for anything else. This notion that having these weapons around is at all normal is at complete odds with how I see things.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
86. I agree. I was in their corner too, but that interview is making it hard for me to stay there.
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 03:32 AM
Feb 2018

Their actions showed a total and stunning lack of judgment on their part. They need a lawyer to tell them to keep their dumb mouths shut now, or a better one if they already do.

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
37. Thank you.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:13 PM
Feb 2018

They probably should have appreciated the risks.

But that is hind sight, and that is 20/20.

Nobody thinks it is going to happen. Denial no doubt.

They are probably devistated.

I have fostered. And i know others who have had very difficult times. It is not easy dealing with damaged kids

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
60. He bought the safe himself, those safes comes with two keys. Why would they allow
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:28 PM
Feb 2018

... a kid who is that depressed have weapons in their house?

Something aint right here

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
75. Exactly. He purchased the safe, safe was in his room.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:42 PM
Feb 2018

These people admit they didn't even know how many guns he had.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
34. It made no difference. The first woman who took him in, the woman who had been named
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:03 PM
Feb 2018

in the will, said she kicked him out because she wouldn't allow his gun in -- and so he left with his gun.

Is she at fault because sometime after he left with his gun, he used it? No. She didn't cause him to use it. And neither is the couple at fault, the couple who let him stay with them, and then sometime after he came to them he took the gun and used it. They didn't cause him to use it.

If they had kicked him out, like the first woman, he would have taken his gun and could still have used it -- whether he had a roof over his head, or not. If they had kicked him out he could have headed over to the high school the next day and started shooting, just as he eventually did.

Multiple reports say they thought they had the only key to the gun safe. So they were as shocked as everyone else when he was able to use the gun without their knowledge.

The fault lies with those who enact the gun laws that allowed him to own the guns in the first place; and with the state systems that repeatedly to act when warnings of his dangerousness were voiced.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
39. You are defending the guy who to this day thinks Cruz had a right to own an AR-15.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:21 PM
Feb 2018

""You thought it was fine for a 19-year-old to have an AR-15?" Blackstone asked.

"It's his right to have it," James said."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-snead-host-family-speaks/

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
46. I am defending logic. Whether he had a roof over his head or was living in the park,
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:38 PM
Feb 2018

he could have still done the shooting.

I would have probably reacted more like the first woman, and not taken him in, but I don't blame the couple. They thought the gun was under lock and key and that they had the only key. They were wrong. But the only people they had put at risk were themselves. It wasn't their fault he eventually used the gun that he had legally purchased and that more than one state agency decided not to take away from him.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
50. What of a 19 year old female wanted to have a 35 year old man she met
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:53 PM
Feb 2018

Stay with her so they could have sex ? Would you think people should let her do that ?

JI7

(89,172 posts)
57. I imagine those who are ok with bringing the guns would not be ok with 19 year old
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:24 PM
Feb 2018

Bringing in a guy to have sex with .

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
61. But whether they were okay with the guns in their house or not
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:28 PM
Feb 2018

has nothing to do with his ability to Uber himself and his gun-filled backpack to the school and do the shooting. (Yes -- he did use Uber.)

He could have done that whether he was living under a friend's roof or on the streets somewhere.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
65. So what ? 19 year old girls can go somewhere else to have sex
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:31 PM
Feb 2018

So parents and other guardians should just let then do it in their home.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
68. But that has nothing to do with the situation. I clearly said above that I wouldn't have
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 10:09 PM
Feb 2018

let someone into my house with guns -- but that doesn't mean his shooting is the fault of the couple who let him in their home.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
63. I think he legally had the right and he shouldn't. The laws should have been changed long ago.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:29 PM
Feb 2018

I see no reason for any civilian to own a weapon of war.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
89. There is nothing logical about this argument
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 03:49 AM
Feb 2018

You are merely rationalizing bad judgment. It's the kind of thinking that leads to bad decisions like being the fun party house means being the safe house because at least you know what's going on. What's really going on is a reliving of youth and being the fun parents that everyone loves. Who wants to be the bad meanie?

They were trying to help out their kid's friend, but they weren't doing so in a thoughtful rational way, and he did have a place to stay. He just didn't want to. Cruz didn't want to stay at his stuffy old family friends house with the rules so he hightailed it to Freedumb Gun House!

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
90. Can you explain how kicking him out of the house with his gun, like the first woman did,
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 03:55 AM
Feb 2018

would have reduced the chance that he'd go on a shooting spree?

What WOULD have reduced the chances are much stronger gun laws that wouldn't allow a mentally disturbed 19 year old to buy a gun in the first place.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
91. So, host someone with a bunch of guns because someone's going to do it anyway?
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:02 AM
Feb 2018

Is that really your argument? See, ideally not only would she kick him out but she should have been able to immediately alert authorities - and who knows, maybe she did just like so many had already done before, multiple times - and put a stop to everything. But this is Freedumb Guns Galore America where nothing happens.

No, she does not have an obligation to host guns in her home just because someone else might do it anyway so it might as well be her. For one thing, they're a danger to anyone in her home, including herself. She had every right to impose that rule and hope he'd comply.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
92. I've said more than once that I probably would have reacted like the first woman.
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:29 AM
Feb 2018

I'm not a gun person and wouldn't have been comfortable inviting him into my home. There was an increased risk to the family in their home.

BUT that doesn't mean that the friend's parents' giving this young man a roof over his head caused him to go on his shooting spree. It would have been just as likely, maybe even more, if he were living on the streets.

I just read that there had been 19 reports to various state agencies about this young man. Kicking him out, and making another report, wouldn't have been likely to make the people of Parkland any safer. So it's not fair to blame this family for their decision to try to help him. They didn't CAUSE him to shoot up the school.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
94. I don't think anyone is arguing that they caused it.
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:39 AM
Feb 2018

I think the argument is they were huge idiots for letting him keep them. They are obviously steeped in gun culture in such an extreme way that this further enabled Cruz. They unwittingly offered him a safe haven so he could perpetrate this crime. Instead of realizing their error they are doubling down, insisting they were right to let him keep his guns. That's insane.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
95. Yeah, there ARE some people arguing that by giving him a home
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:41 AM
Feb 2018

they were enabling the shooting. And I disagree. Setting him lose on the community with a backpack loaded with guns wouldn't reduce the chance of a shooting.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
96. Oh they absolutely enabled him
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:46 AM
Feb 2018

I think you're confusing enabling with causing. No reasonable person would simply allow a 19 year old willy nilly to move on in with a gun collection including a semi-auto without question. Their decision was reckless and beyond stupid and enabled him to make his choice. But I don't believe they had a clue he was going to do it and I haven't seen anyone else claim that either.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
97. They didn't allow him to move in "willy nilly" with his guns. They required him
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:50 AM
Feb 2018

to put them in a locked gun safe and they mistakenly thought they had the only key.

That wasn't "enabling" him any more than if they sent him out into the street with his backpack. If they had been right about having the only key, that would have protected the community more than if he were roaming the parks with his backpack.

Dictionary.com

verb (used with object), enabled, enabling.
1.
to make able; give power, means, competence, or ability to; authorize:
This document will enable him to pass through the enemy lines unmolested.
2.
to make possible or easy:
Aeronautics enables us to overcome great distances.
3.
to make ready; equip (often used in combination):
web-enabled cell phones.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
47. Why? Numerous people had reported him and the state agencies did nothing.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:40 PM
Feb 2018

The first woman barred him from her house, but that didn't stop him from shooting up the school eventually. Was it her fault because she kicked him out? Of course not.

So why is the couple who tried to help him at fault? They thought the gun was locked up. They thought they had the only key. And they weren't the ones who allowed him to buy the gun in the first place -- that was the state.

del19713

(6 posts)
40. Any responsible party would know you don't have guns around people that are having mental issues.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:23 PM
Feb 2018

Yet they let him own an arsenal at their home. The first family that took him in refused to let him keep the guns at their house. So he moved on to somewhere that would let him have his guns. I first read that the shooter had a key to the gun safe he was of age and allowed to have guns. Somehow the story changed so there was only one key to a new gun safe he just bought. Is that normal? Also, it seems like a campaign to let them live in the neighborhood again. I think they just better move, also the son the friend of the shooter he knew how many problems that the shooter was having what was it 45 arrests. I believe all the families will sue that family civilly and rightly so.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
49. The first family wouldn't let him in, so he left with his guns. Sometime later, he did the shooting.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:49 PM
Feb 2018

Are they responsible? Of course not.

Neither family is, because whether he lived in a house or lived in a park, he was a ticking time bomb. If this couple had barred their door, he could have just gone to the school and shot it up the next day. As it is, he lasted a few months after his mother's death before he cracked.

Who is responsible? The lawmakers who passed the gun laws. The agencies to which people reported their concerns about him -- and decided he wasn't a hazard.

But not the couple who was just trying to help him.

Chimichurri

(2,911 posts)
45. Adam Lanza's mother also knew her son had mental issues
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:33 PM
Feb 2018

And gave him weapons and trips to shooting ranges as a way to connect with him.

They are just as much to blame. That sound insensitive but how can they say he was a model child when authorities visited his home 39 times and he was expelled from school?

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
48. The situations aren't the same at all. These people didn't give him weapons,
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 08:43 PM
Feb 2018

or allow him free access to his or theirs. He bought the guns, legally, from a gun store.

When their son asked them to take him in, they didn't bar the door. They required him to keep his guns in a separate locked safe, to which they thought they had the only key.

How is this the same as the deliberate decisions that Lanza's mother made?

kcr

(15,300 posts)
93. You're right, it isn't the same. But they're also not his parents
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 04:31 AM
Feb 2018

They aren't obligated to him the way parents are to their own children, and they also aren't going to have the same blind spots the way many if not most parents do with their children, even parents of children with mental health issues. I have a hard time understanding why they didn't question why a 19 year old wanted or needed 7 guns including an AR-15? That's mind-boggling. I thought it was bad enough when it was just the AR-15. They just let him move on in with all his little friends.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
64. +1, You're severely depressed? Here, shoot a bunch of these bullets to feel better ...
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 09:31 PM
Feb 2018

... doesn't make a lot of sense to me

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
83. Youre mixing up the couple with his mom.
Tue Feb 20, 2018, 11:48 PM
Feb 2018

Police were called to his mom’s house and he was expelled under her care. He only lived with the couple since late November, 3 months.

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