How Many Militias Are There?

[Ohioboy]

I'm not a constitutional scholar, so I'm not going to going to try and debate the 2nd Amendment. However, I wanted to point out some of the arguments I hear being used when discussing the 2nd Amendment.

Here is the 2nd Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Because the 2nd Amendment is contained in the Bill Of Rights, it is obvious that the Founders considered it a right of the people “to keep and bear Arms”. No one I know disputes that. However, there seems to be a bit of a caveat with the way the Founders wrote the amendment. They started with “A well regulated Militia”, meaning a well- trained, practiced, fighting force. Why didn't the Founders, being men that chose words carefully, just say “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” and leave it at that?

One side of the argument says the Founders were emphasizing a need to be ready to go against the government if it ever became tyrannical. Supporters of this view point out that the Founders were constantly writing about liberty and freedom and the fight against tyranny. They think the Founders wanted us, the people, to be organized and well trained as a militia to someday go against the whole system if necessary.

However, as much as the Founders were all about checks and balances, this view doesn't seem to square with the way the word “militia” is used in other parts of the Constitution. The other side of the discussion points out section 8 of The Constitution which says Congress has the power “To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.”

Here, in section 8 of The Constitution, the Founders seem to be saying the militia works with the government and not as a protection against it. In fact, at one point in section 8 it says “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”.

Are there two militias talked about in The Constitution? The pro- gun answer is "yes". They define the militia in the 2nd Amendment as a force of the people constantly ready to fight tyranny, and the militia in section 8 as more like the National Guard. The other side says the Founders had one definition of militia spelled out clearly in section 8 of the Constitution. Unfortunately, the Framers of the Constitution are not here to confirm which side is right.

Personally, I think the Founders were clear on what they considered a militia to be and spelled it out in section 8. To my thinking they would have been inclined to use the term consistently throughout the Constitution. But, what fun is that?

I am not here to debate. I'm just sharing what I've been finding.

Have a nice day.

[beachbum bob]

1. in the dark recesses of america there are estimated several million members of

militias scattered across america

nothing state-sponsored with any of them and they keep a low profile for obvious reasons.

[Ohioboy]

2. I was talking more about the definition of militia in the Constitution, but you are right.

I've heard there are many.
And, how much do you want to bet most of their members are pro- military even though they expect to take on the military some day? They are delusional.

[Takket]

3. no one ever talks about these words: "security of a free State"

Does that mean the free State is dependent upon the people to be able to replace and replenish the government if the State becomes oppressive?

or does that mean the State depends upon the people to protect it in the case of an armed attack upon the State? Which you mentioned is covered by Section 8.

[Ohioboy]

7. From what I've read on the subject (and I'm no expert), I say the Founders meant protect the state

not make it easy to overthrow.

The way I see it The Constitution ended up being a compromise of a lot of different thought. The framers essentially had to bring together separate entities in the form of states, each with their own way of doing things, not an easy thing to do.

Through their writings we know that they talked at length about how things would work to keep their new nation secure.
At debate was whether or not to have a regular standing army, or whether each state would have its own militia and then pull all the militias together if there was an attack on the whole of the country. Standing armies at the time were things that kings used to oppress their people, and some thought having an army would lead to too much power at the top. Others thought it would be impractical to use only militias, concerned with things like, ability to organize quickly, travel time, and equal training. What we ended up with is both. The Constitution allows the government to raise armies and have militias. See section 8 of the Constitution.

To my way of thinking, if the Framers wanted to give the general public the ability to replace the government with an armed militia anytime enough of them decided the government was getting too oppressive, they would not have given the government the power to raise armies and a navy. This may seem like I'm simplifying things, but I think it may be actually that simple.

As an aside, ever wonder why, not all, but many pro gun people who think the 2nd Amendment is about fighting against the government are also pro military? Shouldn't they be all about separate militias only?

[k2qb3]

4. The militia meant military age men...

and "well regulated" meant "capable and competent at soldiering" more or less.

[Ohioboy]

9. You're right

But it also means an organized group as well, right? "Well regulated" would also mean trained to work together as a force, I'm thinking.

[Iggo]

5. More than zero is too many. (n/t)

[edbermac]

6. One nice thing about joining a militia.

Deer don't shoot back.

[aikoaiko]

8. Part of the militia might work for the government (i.e., leaders, trainers, etc).

So I agree that the Bill Rights protects the civil liberty of the people owning firearms that would be useful should the people be called to be a part of the militia.