Where is Bernie Sanders? Trump is Stealing Bernies Steel Tariff...

[TomCADem]

...and Bernie is not saying squat. This would be like Diane Feinstein sitting out a debate on gun control or Maxine Waters not commenting on an issue regarding race or Dana Rohrbacher not having a take on Russia.

Trump is straight up stealing Bernie’s steel tariff proposal. Bernie should be out on front of this.

[comradebillyboy]

1. These sorts of tarriffs are just bad policy no matter who

advocates them. Protectionism and hostility to international trade and trade agreements makes everybody poorer. Nobody wins a trade war.

[JCanete]

3. tariffs could be a good policy, if they were tied to worker conditions and

environmental protections. That would be leverage used right. Why would that be a bad thing? You can't compete on a global scale if other nations can undercut you by polluting and abusing their citizens.

[comradebillyboy]

5. Yeah, that was all included in the TPP that Trump torpedoed.

But all the other countries went ahead and did the TPP without us. China iss the biggest beneficiary of American's foolish trade policy under Trump.

[JCanete]

6. It does not sound like that was included in the TPP. There was language

about these things, but it sounds like the teeth to enforce were lacking considerably.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Yes, incremental progress. It works quite well in the long run.

[JCanete]

10. if it didn't actually regulate anything how was that incremental?

[Adrahil]

15. Something is better than nothing. We have nothing now. How's that working? NT

[JCanete]

16. oh it did plenty. It extended patents on drugs for our big companies, etc.

[pnwmom]

25. An engineer (and a Democrat) told me that the main reason China could undercut us

was because they were building giant steel producing factories, and steel is produced more cheaply in such large facilities. He said it wasn't really being "dumped," as some here claim, because they were still able to make a profit.

[NCTraveler]

41. This. All day.

It's why I was extremely close to supporting the TPP. Very minor changes adding more worker protections and fair methods to uphold those protections were needed. There were many general worker protections in the TPP, and a means of arbitration, just not quite enough for me. It was close.

I'm disgusted by our gradual withdraw from the world stage. We are giving up staggering amounts of clout and people will be hurt and die because of it.

[comradebillyboy]

72. Exactly so.

[Mosby]

19. free trade is killing the middle class

Trump is not the guy to fix anything of course, but unfortunately the dems have given up on the issue for now.

Real liberal views about trade:

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Howard_Dean_Free_Trade.htm

[TheFrenchRazor]

46. word. nt

[Demsrule86]

52. I disagree...the trade agreements are unfair to American manufacturing...but this thing Trump did

is not the way to proceed.

[JCanete]

2. I very much doubt he is straight steeling Sanders tarrif proposal, and tarrifs,

if simply designed to give money to the industry heads and not coupled with better regulation of the industry and better collective bargaining rights, environmental protection etc. will hardly in themselves improve the standard of living of American workers, and likely the opposite. Just because Sanders has advocated for tariffs doesn't automatically mean that Trump and Sanders are anywhere close to on the same page here.

As to why Sanders hasn't said anything, I'm not sure. Maybe he will today.

[comradebillyboy]

9. Silence is golden.

[TomCADem]

74. Over a Week and No Statement by Bernie Sanders

Trump is straight ripping off Bernie's proposals on steel tariffs and Bernie Sanders has suddenly gone radio silent. Case in Penn and Manchin in WV have supported the idea. So, what about Bernie who was the most visible proponent of tariffs to protect American workers?

[JCanete]

75. Jesus dude, I don't know. Sanders has criticized just about everything

Trump has done, and as other people have pointed out, those who DO NOT LIKE SANDERS, and those who do, in this thread, the fact that Sanders has also suggested tariffs DOES NOT mean that these are the same in any way.

I agree that where this differs from Sanders plan, for the sake of public awareness Sanders should come out and say why Trump's proposal is a bad one. That he hasn't though, in a sea of everything that trump does is bad and can be expected to be, I'm not that surprised that this one issue hasn't been directly addressed. That said, is your insinuation that Sanders is avoiding addressing this because going negative on it risks alienating some people who would assume that Sanders was all talk on tariffs? If its that, its a valid question, but hardly appropriate to start insinuating.

If its some other beef(because you have many and any that come across your screen it seems), I'm not following what it is.

[Hoyt]

4. +1. Doesn't matter who supports tariffs, we are going to pay for it in the end here and around the

world.

[bullwinkle428]

8. Democratic Sen. Bob Casey of PA has spoken out in favor of this, but

Bernie has yet to comment. In fact, when I did a Google search for this, this first thing that came regarding "Bernie Sanders steel tariff" was your thread yesterday asking about this.

[Major Nikon]

11. Or just tariffs in general

"Bernie Sanders tariff" yields 7 results almost all from wingnut sources.

"Bernie Sanders giant dildo" yields over 50,000 results.

[miyazaki]

39. Rolf. nt

[TomCADem]

60. Exactly. Casey Is Not Being Silent. Where is Bernie Sanders?

Casey is coming from a steel producing state and is proudly sticking to his positions. Why isn't Bernie Sanders doing the same thing and standing behind a proposal that he has loudly championed?

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/376299-dem-senator-facing-reelection-applauds-trump-for-new-tariffs

Sen. Bob Casey Jr. (D-Pa.) on Thursday praised President Trump for announcing plans to impose steep tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, saying it will help Pennsylvania workers.

“It has taken the Administration far too long, but today’s announcement of an intention to act next week is a welcome step,” Casey tweeted.

“When countries cheat on trade, Pennsylvania workers lose. I urge the Administration to follow through and to take aggressive measures to ensure our workers can compete on a level playing field,” he continued.

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Fuck Bernie. He is irrelevant. He jumped into that race and did nothing but get people all...

excited and help blow the election for us. And he's wrong about tariffs.

Tariffs exist-- they have always existed and will exist forever in the future, but punitive or protectionist tariffs start trade wars. And with the incredibly complex international trade of today one has no real idea where to start with this Trumpian nonsense.

Does Trump know about anti-dumping rules and how to enforce them? You try that before you whine about tariffs.

[NurseJackie]

18. Many people share your feelings.

[BoneyardDem]

21. I *might* be one of them

[Blue_true]

40. I AM one of them.

Bernie has been and still is a lightweight in Congress, living off Democrats.

The issue with steel and metals is management. Look, technology eliminated steel jobs a long time ago. Foreign metals companies that produce the best, least expensive metals are highly automated, their managers had to foresight to look ahead instead of pay out multi-million dollar executive salaries.

[EffieBlack]

69. Me, too

[Gothmog]

28. Same here

[ehrnst]

42. ....

[ismnotwasm]

48. Yup

[Eliot Rosewater]

57. Yikes, so glad to see you say this. Agreed

[Hortensis]

61. We can't afford more of his kind of contribution

to the future of our party and our nation.

[Cary]

73. I don't see anything good that has emanated from him

He sows lots of discord and discontent.

[msongs]

13. beware the ides of march nt

[NCTraveler]

14. Where is Bernie Sanders?

Re-fighting the primaries and filling the family coffers.

[left-of-center2012]

17. Oh geeze! Another attack on Bernie.

Sheesh !

Like a dog gnawing on a bone.

There should be a forum for the daily attacks on him.

[gyroscope]

22. But if Bernie did say something about it

they would attack him for being an opportunist, no doubt about that.

no matter what he does, he will be attacked on this forum.

[TomCADem]

58. This is one of Bernie's Signature Issues That He Has Pressured Trump On!

Again, Trump announced the imposition of tariffs on steel imports, which is a move that Bernie Sanders has long championed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/03/31/bernie-sanders-pledges-rewrite-disastrous-trade-deals/82473012/

Along with NAFTA, Sanders said he also would rewrite CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations with China, and the Korean Free Trade Agreement.

He didn’t specify what changes he would make but said U.S. workers shouldn't be forced to compete against people making “pennies an hour.” He also criticized deals that lead corporations to move to countries such as China where there are “virtually no environmental standards” compared to the U.S.

“That is not fair competition,” he said.

His campaign says Sanders also would impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan “until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.”

This past year, Bernie has been keeping pressure on Trump to not stop with tearing up TPP, but to also tear up NAFTA, which Trump still has yet to do. Bernie Sanders should call attention to this that Trump is simply stealing from Bernie's playbook, so that when economic exceeds 3% as Bernie predicted under his policies, Bernie gets the credit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-13/bernie-sanders-to-trump-on-nafta-for-once-keep-your-promise

Bernie Sanders Tells Trump to Keep His Promise on Nafta

President Donald Trump is finding an unlikely ally in his efforts to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement: the political left.

Civil-society groups, union leaders and left-wing politicians have opposed almost everything Trump has done. But they’re urging him to stand firm in his attempt to overhaul Nafta -- and face down opposition from business groups, who complain that U.S. companies will be hurt by the proposed changes. Mexico and Canada have called U.S. demands unworkable, including on regional-content requirements for cars and investor-state dispute systems.

Senator Bernie Sanders, an outspoken critic of trade deals in his campaign for president last year, called on Trump to deliver. “When Donald Trump campaigned for president, he promised that he was going to stop corporations from shifting American jobs to Mexico,” Sanders said Wednesday at a rally for the #ReplaceNafta movement in Washington. “For once in your life, keep your promises.”

[Nevernose]

24. If ppl are going to keep refighting the primaries

Repeatedly and without subtlety, Skinner should consider reopening the 2016 primary forum.

[left-of-center2012]

26. But, but, but ...

That would allow attacks on all candidates from 2016,
and some just want a Bernie Sanders pinata to hit.

[DLevine]

29. Yup.

The obsession some have with attacking Bernie is ridiculous. Every day it's some variation of "fuck Bernie".

[left-of-center2012]

33. It distracts from the elections of 2018 and 2020

Russian bots?
GOP operatives?

[DLevine]

34. Who knows. What I do know is that we are being pitted against each other.

Meanwhile, Trump and the KGOP continue to fuck over our country.

[emulatorloo]

49. You do know Russian bots promoted Bernie and Karl Rove ran ads supporting him right?

Last edited Fri Mar 2, 2018, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Your theory that people interested in hearing Bernie talk about Trump’s tariffs are Russian Bots and GOP’ers “Attacking” Bernie doesn’t hold water.

It is perfectly normal for Democrats at DU to want to hear from Senator Sanders on what he thinks about Trump policy.

—————

How The Russian Social Media Effort Boosted Bernie
By JOHN DILLON, NOAH VILLAMARIN-CUTTER & EMILY ALFIN JOHNSON

http://digital.vpr.net/post/how-russian-social-media-effort-boosted-bernie

———————
Bernie Sanders Has A Super PAC Supporting Him, But It's Not What You Think (Karl Rove American Crossroads)
https://www.bustle.com/articles/143571-bernie-sanders-has-a-super-pac-supporting-him-but-its-not-what-you-think

[sheshe2]

54. Thank you.

[emulatorloo]

44. Nah some just want Bernie to be immune from constructive criticism

Constructive criticism is allowed here of Democrats. No one is immune from criticism for saying dumb stuff or making crappy votes. Both things which Bernie has been known to do. After all, like all politicians he is human, not infallible. Humans make mistakes.

It would be nice to hear Bernie’s latest thoughts on tariffs and how his policy differs from Trump’s. I assume there are significant differences and Bernie would enjoy articulating them.

[Jim Lane]

50. Is "Fuck Bernie" constructive criticism?

Or, in a related question, if someone wrote that Hillary Clinton "has been and still is a lightweight," what would happen to that post? You know as well as I do what would happen to that post.

[emulatorloo]

45. How is a question about Bernies position in 2018 on Trumps 2018 tariffs refighting 2016?

Bernie 2016 primary supporter here. Claiming questions about Bernie’s policy today or constructive criticism of gaffes and questionable votes since the election have zero to do with 2016.

This “refighting the primaries” canard appears to have devolved in a way to shut down discussion.

As you know constructive criticism is allowed here. There’s no ‘Bernie must not be criticized’ exception.

[LisaM]

27. Pointing out the obvious is not an attack.

Bernie Sanders disrupted the convention and spat in Hillary Clinton's eye over TPP. His supporters sat there with signs and tape over their mouths over it. On the convention floor. Speaking from my own point of view, I think that incidents like that ultimately cost us the election (yes, there were multiple factors but change any one of them, and Hillary would have won the Electoral College).

It was ultimately one of his main talking points. I bet three quarters of those people sitting there upset about TPP couldn't tell you half the things that were even in it.

I don't dispute that there can be value in some use of tariffs, but like everything else, this is not a black and white issue. Bernie Sanders made it one and he made it a key part of his platform, so yeah, his silence is deafening.

[maxrandb]

38. Some of us

Just can't let complicity in the destruction of our democracy and the providing of aid and comfort to fascism go...

[emulatorloo]

47. POLITIFACT: Trump says he and Bernie are similar on trade. Verdict MOSTLY TRUE

http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2016/jul/27/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-he-and-bernie-sanders-are-very-s/

Donald Trump says he and Bernie Sanders are 'very similar' on trade





That’s an older article. I assume there are some Nuanced differences between their 2018 positions. I look forward to Bernie articulating them. That is one of the things Senator Sanders does best

[Major Nikon]

55. Associative logic

A) God is love
B) Love is blind
Ergo - Stevie Wonder is God

[emulatorloo]

62. Article wasnt structured like that. They tend to support w fact and

direct quotations

[Major Nikon]

63. I guessed I missed the part where Politifact said Bernie supports Trumps tariffs

My bad.

[emulatorloo]

64. I pointed out the article is older, and doesnt cover Trumps tariffs in 2018. And that I would enjoy

hearing Bernie articulate the differences between his position and Trump’s as I expect the majority of DUers would as well. I also praised Bernie’s ability to articulate his policy positions. IMHO he is great at explaining complex issues so everyone can understand.

You wrote: “I guessed I missed the part where Politifact said Bernie supports Trumps tariffs”

As I reiterated above, I made it crystal clear the Politifact article is older and does not cover 2018 Tarrif policy.

Maybe if you had actually read my post you would have seen that.

But you were far to busy trying to come up with a cute sarcastic zinger. Unfortunately it has zero basis in anything I wrote.

I posted the article in the first place because of the apparent defensiveness of those who were apparently not aware of similarities in Trump 2016 campaign positions on trade to some of Bernie’s 2016 primary campaign positions on trade. There were similarities in rhetoric as you know.

Have a nice night

[Major Nikon]

65. I read what you wrote. Nuanced doesnt mean what you think it means.

You didn’t even mention tariffs.

[emulatorloo]

66. Yeah doubling down is always a good strategy.

[emulatorloo]

68. Gaslighting huh. Sounds like you are projecting.

You misrepresented the Politifact article, you misrepresented what I wrote. When both things are right there in black in white for everyone to see.

This is fun, feel free to continue on your own though.

[TomCADem]

56. What? This Is Bernie Sander's Moment of Triumph! Trump Has Caved

Trump is announcing the imposition of tariffs on steel imports, which is a move that Bernie Sanders has long championed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/03/31/bernie-sanders-pledges-rewrite-disastrous-trade-deals/82473012/

Along with NAFTA, Sanders said he also would rewrite CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations with China, and the Korean Free Trade Agreement.

He didn’t specify what changes he would make but said U.S. workers shouldn't be forced to compete against people making “pennies an hour.” He also criticized deals that lead corporations to move to countries such as China where there are “virtually no environmental standards” compared to the U.S.

“That is not fair competition,” he said.

His campaign says Sanders also would impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan “until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.”

In addition, Bernie has been keeping pressure on Trump to not stop with tearing up TPP, but to also tear up NAFTA, which Trump still has yet to do. Bernie Sanders should call attention to this that Trump is simply stealing from Bernie's playbook, so that when economic exceeds 3% as Bernie predicted under his policies, Bernie gets the credit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-13/bernie-sanders-to-trump-on-nafta-for-once-keep-your-promise

Bernie Sanders Tells Trump to Keep His Promise on Nafta

President Donald Trump is finding an unlikely ally in his efforts to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement: the political left.

Civil-society groups, union leaders and left-wing politicians have opposed almost everything Trump has done. But they’re urging him to stand firm in his attempt to overhaul Nafta -- and face down opposition from business groups, who complain that U.S. companies will be hurt by the proposed changes. Mexico and Canada have called U.S. demands unworkable, including on regional-content requirements for cars and investor-state dispute systems.

Senator Bernie Sanders, an outspoken critic of trade deals in his campaign for president last year, called on Trump to deliver. “When Donald Trump campaigned for president, he promised that he was going to stop corporations from shifting American jobs to Mexico,” Sanders said Wednesday at a rally for the #ReplaceNafta movement in Washington. “For once in your life, keep your promises.”

[DLevine]

30. Yes, Bernie is just like Trump.

[Exotica]

35. it is adversarial, thus the "v" in my post

they are so so not alike, other than they are men from NYC and both are US citizens.

[Hekate]

53. It was a crappy post nonetheless. But you knew that. Or you do now.

[rgbecker]

23. I so wish people would provide some supporting links for their attacks.

Often a more nuanced article is more helpful than 2 or 3 sentences expressing some emotional feeling a fellow DUer has. Just seems like a goal to upgrade the dialog on the DU would be worth the extra effort.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/03/31/bernie-sanders-pledges-rewrite-disastrous-trade-deals/82473012/

[leftstreet]

31. Thanks for posting that

Thank you. It's nice to have some context

from the article

His campaign says Sanders also would impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan “until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.”

[LanternWaste]

32. Your premise being that the two policies are identical in every relevant way, and Trump is taking cr

Your premise being that the two policies are identical in every meaningful relevant way, and Trump is taking credit for it? That would be akin to alleging Obama stole Bush's middle-east war policies.

Or... are details and nuance required to compare and contrast the two?

[George II]

36. Tariffs are regressive "taxes" on Americans. So he essentially raises prices....

...on steel and aluminum, so AMERICAN cars will be more expensive. That will make foreign cars (Toyota, Honda, etc.) much more competitive than they are already.

Those companies are using Asian steel and aluminum without the tariff, and they're already more competitive.

Doesn't that idiot ever think at all?

[BoneyardDem]

37. Bernie's got other shit going on....a tad distracted, I'd say.

[LexVegas]

43. Bernie supports it? nt

[TomCADem]

59. Trump Is Ripping Off Bernie's Policy Ideas

Trump's announcement of the imposition of tariffs on steel imports is a move that Bernie Sanders has long championed and has continued to push for. It would be like Trump announcing that he supports single payer with Bernie suddenly no where to be found.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/03/31/bernie-sanders-pledges-rewrite-disastrous-trade-deals/82473012/

Along with NAFTA, Sanders said he also would rewrite CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations with China, and the Korean Free Trade Agreement.

He didn’t specify what changes he would make but said U.S. workers shouldn't be forced to compete against people making “pennies an hour.” He also criticized deals that lead corporations to move to countries such as China where there are “virtually no environmental standards” compared to the U.S.

“That is not fair competition,” he said.

His campaign says Sanders also would impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan “until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.”

In addition, Bernie has been keeping pressure on Trump to not stop with tearing up TPP, but to also tear up NAFTA, which Trump still has yet to do. Bernie Sanders should call attention to this that Trump is simply stealing from Bernie's playbook, so that when economic exceeds 3% as Bernie predicted under his policies, Bernie gets the credit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-13/bernie-sanders-to-trump-on-nafta-for-once-keep-your-promise

Bernie Sanders Tells Trump to Keep His Promise on Nafta

President Donald Trump is finding an unlikely ally in his efforts to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement: the political left.

Civil-society groups, union leaders and left-wing politicians have opposed almost everything Trump has done. But they’re urging him to stand firm in his attempt to overhaul Nafta -- and face down opposition from business groups, who complain that U.S. companies will be hurt by the proposed changes. Mexico and Canada have called U.S. demands unworkable, including on regional-content requirements for cars and investor-state dispute systems.

Senator Bernie Sanders, an outspoken critic of trade deals in his campaign for president last year, called on Trump to deliver. “When Donald Trump campaigned for president, he promised that he was going to stop corporations from shifting American jobs to Mexico,” Sanders said Wednesday at a rally for the #ReplaceNafta movement in Washington. “For once in your life, keep your promises.”

[Demsrule86]

51. This is not how Bernie would have done it...this will cause American made autos to be less

competitive...as usual Trump screws everything up.

[GulfCoast66]

70. Loving all the Bernie excuses going on here!

Trump is doing exactly what Bernie wanted. Do not even try to whitewash it. And when Trump pulls out of NAFTA, I do not want to see one Bernie supporter here complaining that Bernie would have done it differently. And it is as stupid when Trump does it as when Bernie proposed it.

Nationalist do what nationalist do...blame the foreigner, billionaire, millionaire, Chinese, name your villain. And most depressing of all is that a so called socialist is leading the left in this bullshit.

Unemployment is at an all time low. Corporate profits are at an all time high. And the reason is obvious...we have killed the union. Why do we accept the fact that industrial work is better paid than service work? Because service companies are just as profitable as industrial companies. We on the left have accepted the bullshit argument from the right that service work just pays less, because...I do not know why?

Well, I know why...because service work is traditionally done by women and people of color. So of course making steel and shit like that pays more because you know...white men.

I am as white and WASP as a man comes. And even I see that. The fact that many so called 'Democratic Socialist' think that dumb-ass white guy like me shoveling coal into a burner should make more than a person of color taking care of grandma says it all for me.

[JI7]

71. "service work is traditionally done by women and people of color."

yup

[shanny]

76. ...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-trade-war-globalization_us_5a99dacfe4b089ec353a4c95