Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 05:22 PM Mar 2018

BernieSanders.com - Bernie Sanders Strongly Supports Imposing Tariffs on Steel Imports

It has been over a week since Donald Trump has announced tariffs on steel imports. Bernie Sanders has not offered any tweets or quotes recently, but before we should keep in mind that Trump is just trying to rip-off Bernie's ideas. Thus, Bob Casey and Joe Manchin are not supporting Trump, but they are supporting Bernie Sander's original proposals to impose tariffs on steel imports.

https://berniesanders.com/press-release/job-killing-trade-deals-hurt-pennsylvania-workers/

Clinton recently signaled that she might seek modifications in the pact, but Sanders said that’s not enough. “I will not renegotiate the TPP, I will reject it. I will not send any trade deals to Congress that make it easier for corporations to shut down in this country and move abroad.”

He pledged to rewrite the worst trade deals of the last 30 years, including NAFTA. Sanders will also impose countervailing tariffs on imports from China and Japan until they stop dumping steel into the United States and stop manipulating their currencies.

At the news conference here, Sanders was joined by President Mike Smith of the United Steelworkers Local 1557-2 and President Scott Slawson of the United Electrical Workers Local 506.

Pennsylvania voters go to the polls on April 26 to decide how the state will allocate its 189 pledged delegates to the Democratic National Convention this summer in Philadelphia.
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
BernieSanders.com - Bernie Sanders Strongly Supports Imposing Tariffs on Steel Imports (Original Post) TomCADem Mar 2018 OP
Those are tariffs imposed on imports from specific countries for specific misdeeds hurting the USA mr_lebowski Mar 2018 #1
So, It Is Okay for US Workers to Be Undercut So Longs As Foreigners Are White? TomCADem Mar 2018 #2
Uh, believe it or not, the 'race' of China and Japan actually did not occur in any way ... mr_lebowski Mar 2018 #4
So what happens. Blue_true Mar 2018 #5
Yeah, actually, it matters why the US workers are undercut. Igel Mar 2018 #6
Yet, Canada Is The Big Steel Importer... TomCADem Mar 2018 #18
I am all for proper tarrifing but this will hurt manufacturers...auto will pay more for their steal Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #19
Quick quiz: Who said this? OilemFirchen Mar 2018 #3
So, what is your point? Blue_true Mar 2018 #7
I thought that the point was fairly obvious. OilemFirchen Mar 2018 #11
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Blue_true Mar 2018 #22
I wish the Bernie haters ... left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #8
Amen. shanny Mar 2018 #9
The OP has a "vote" avatar, and yours is a "scream". OilemFirchen Mar 2018 #12
I scream because of the Bernie haters left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #14
HuffPo (2018) - Bernie Sanders Pushes Donald Trump To Stay Strong In NAFTA Negotiations TomCADem Mar 2018 #15
Left-of-center, you HAVE to be kidding! Hortensis Mar 2018 #17
It is a two way street... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #20
... LexVegas Mar 2018 #21
China and Japan GaryCnf Mar 2018 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author GaryCnf Mar 2018 #13
.... QC Mar 2018 #16
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
1. Those are tariffs imposed on imports from specific countries for specific misdeeds hurting the USA
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 05:28 PM
Mar 2018

And in fact hurting many other countries as well in the case of currency manipulation and I'd imagine if they're dumping steel on us they're also doing it elsewhere. That IS something that should be fought back against through SOME means at least.

This is actually quite different both in spirit and practice from Trumps global protectionist tariffs by tantrum.

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
2. So, It Is Okay for US Workers to Be Undercut So Longs As Foreigners Are White?
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 05:40 PM
Mar 2018

Wow, so Bernie Sanders is even more racist than Donald Trump, since we aren't just focusing on price competition?

If US steel is $300/ton, does it really matter if they are getting undercut from steel from Canada or China if they are selling at $250/ton. After all, Canada, not China or Japan, is the top exporter of Aluminum and Steel to the U.S. Yet, you want to exempt Canada?

The question is why? Because they are mostly white? It does not feed into the natural xenophobia of white Americans?

Put another way, this is one of the rare instances where Trump's policy is not quite so racist, yet some folks would argue that Bernie's policy is better because it would be targeted against non-white countries engaging in misdeeds against the U.S., which would not really help American steel workers, because Canada is the top exporter of Aluminum and Steel to the U.S.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
4. Uh, believe it or not, the 'race' of China and Japan actually did not occur in any way ...
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 05:55 PM
Mar 2018

to me whatsoever.

Correspondingly, I rather seriously doubt that Bernie had the sort of racist intent that you seem to be pulling from out your ass here either.

Lastly, I didn't say I 'support' Bernie's proposal, only that it is fundamentally different in nature and intent.

And a good day to you sir.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
5. So what happens.
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:11 PM
Mar 2018

If a foreign producer legitimately produce steel for $195 per ton, pay workers well and protect the environment and sell it for $250 per ton? Are we better off protecting companies that can't figure out how to produce at $195 per ton and also pay workers well and protect the environment? One issue that I have with American steel producers is that many have chosen to pay big executive salaries and stock dividends rather that invest in more efficient mills and worker training so that people that lose jobs to automation can find jobs in newer industries.

Igel

(35,191 posts)
6. Yeah, actually, it matters why the US workers are undercut.
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:14 PM
Mar 2018

And race per se isn't at issue.

What's at issue is cost of production. If the Chinese make steel at $200/ton and we make it at $300/ton, it's a fair bit of business. They have lower costs of production, perhaps, and it makes economic sense for them to make it.

If the Chinese make steel at $320/ton and with a government subsidy, for the sake of either hurting another country through Chinese government action or propping up their own industry against competitors, they can sell it at $200/ton then it's not due to reasoned economics but politics that the US would be undercut.

Instead, Trump wants a 25% tariff against *everybody*, even if their costs are legitimately lower and so their prices are lower.

Note that Obama imposed anti-Chinese steel tariffs a couple of years ago, at least on some steels.

I'm in favor of punitive tariffs for dumping while the WTO sorts things out, but that requires dumping to be taking place. In that case, the government overseas artificially lowers the price while the US government artificially increases the price.

I can also countenance an argument that a country has the right to take steps to maintain a minimum amount of home-produced materiel that would be essential in the case of war. So American munitions are to be made domestically; when the RD-180 rocket was being bought under license from the Russians and used for sensitive government satellites federal law required that all the steps necessary to quickly set up production in the US already be in place--production documents and processes translated and confirmed, a site located with adequate facilities and the ability to quick put the equipment in place to produce every part and assemble/test the engines.

In some ways I prefer the Chinese way of doing things. Find something that they do that makes their output identifiable and then ban it in the product. "I'm sorry, your steel has an incidence of molybdenum-95 that exceeds US import standards by 0.1%. Sorry, it can't be imported until you correct that imbalance." And since that's likely to depend on sources and it's hard to remove one isotope from a mixture of similar isotopes on a large scale, it's a hard thing to fix. Yeah, it's a spurious requirement, but it's a game a number of countries play in a rather flamboyant manner.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
19. I am all for proper tarrifing but this will hurt manufacturers...auto will pay more for their steal
Tue Mar 6, 2018, 05:02 PM
Mar 2018

in the US and be forced to compete with those who get it at a better price.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
3. Quick quiz: Who said this?
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 05:45 PM
Mar 2018
I have dedicated my life to fight against the heinous rottenness of modern capitalism because it robs the laborer of this world's goods.

... or this:

Less care for internationalism and more concern for national prosperity.

... or this:

I need not recall for you that both the laboring and agricultural classes of America are forced to work for less than a living wage while the owners of industry boastfully proclaim that their profits are increasing.

... or this?

I believe that when a banker speaks, you can go the opposite way and be right. That has been proved in recent years.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
7. So, what is your point?
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 06:29 PM
Mar 2018

I believe in capitalism, but I believe that modern capitalism is an amalgam of unfettered greed, where executives and owners fatten themselves at the expense of workers and consumers. The goal is to pay as little as possible and sell for as much as possible, the concept of leaving something on the table for the greater good is lost and anyone that practice that is considered a chump.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
11. I thought that the point was fairly obvious.
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 08:41 PM
Mar 2018

There is little to no sunshine between left-wing and right-wing economic populism. While that, in and of itself, isn't necessarily remarkable, it's worth noting that the rhetoric, however it's couched, will inevitably result in measures that are mostly punitive to workers. In modern times, trade barriers rarely, if ever, harm the producers. That was true in the early part of the twentieth century, when Father Coughlin was protecting the "working class" from the Jewish Conspiracy and it's even more so true now when "populists" like Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders propose to protect the same "working class" from the Yellow and Brown Hordes.

The Democratic Party represents fair and free trade - however imperfect - while the Republican party are isolationists. Modern history has provided enough examples to indicate which approach is better for the nation's economy and which is worse. Draconian trade barriers are the stuff of the pre-industrialized world... and the Luddites who carry on as if nothing has changed since then.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
22. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Wed Mar 7, 2018, 11:53 AM
Mar 2018

I believe in capitalism, but also believe that producers should share gains with the society that made those gains possible.

If a producer makes a clear profit of $100, use $30 million to improve the business, use $30 million to give employees bonuses, give $30 million to worthy charities and the producer keeps $10 million. Everyone will be better off.

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
12. The OP has a "vote" avatar, and yours is a "scream".
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 08:52 PM
Mar 2018

Anyway, pretty sure that this is a policy discussion...

which will likely fall on deaf ears.

TomCADem

(17,378 posts)
15. HuffPo (2018) - Bernie Sanders Pushes Donald Trump To Stay Strong In NAFTA Negotiations
Sun Mar 4, 2018, 10:19 PM
Mar 2018

Only just a few weeks ago, Bernie Sanders was pushing Trump to follow through on his promises to re-write NAFTA. Trump follows through with a move toward imposing tariffs on steel imports, then crickets from Bernie.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/13/bernie-sanders-pushes-donald-trump-to-stay-strong-in-nafta-negotiations_a_23306782/

WASHINGTON — Donald Trump is being encouraged to stay strong in NAFTA negotiations by people who aren't normally his allies.

Sen. Bernie Sanders and other members of the anti-NAFTA left held a news conference Wednesday on Capitol Hill where they demanded that the president keep his promise to drastically overhaul the agreement.

They held their event as negotiators from the three countries met in Washington.

"We are here today to send a very loud and clear message to Donald Trump: for once in your life keep your promises," said Sanders, a Vermont senator and former presidential contender.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
17. Left-of-center, you HAVE to be kidding!
Mon Mar 5, 2018, 07:29 AM
Mar 2018

There would be no Trump without the leftist fools who tore down our party in 2015 and 2016, then either didn't vote or voted to defeat the Democratic Party.

Some have regrets and have said so. But from others there's no sign that they learned from their dreadful mistakes, and we're worried sick they'll do it all over again. We're talking about the kind of people who, instead of fighting the GOP, spent all of 2017 continuing to badmouth and speak of need to repeal the ACA -- as the Republicans were working to do just that. The ones who were depressed and even angry when Democrats won a sweep of special elections last November.

It's too late for those people to spend "half as much time" fighting the GOP in 2018. But it's not too late for them to start by committing to defeating Republicans on all fronts.

And everyone just needs to accept that we are all scared and that we will only be able to stop being angry about the betrayals of 2016 when together we've kicked the Republicans out of power and are no longer in grave danger of losing everything.

COUNTDOWN TO THE MIDTERMS: 245 days

Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»BernieSanders.com - Berni...