How long before Michael Cohn flips?

[Glamrock]

Last edited Thu Mar 8, 2018, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

He's going to be facing disbarment for representing Trump and paying off the pornstar without Trumps knowledge. Or, he changes his tune, tells the world Trump knew, and retains his licsence..... Will he fall on his sword?

[democratisphere]

1. Cohen won't flip. Remember, "he will take a bullet for mr. drumpf".

We shall see, he has a lot to lose by remaining loyal.

[OnDoutside]

2. +1

[Glamrock]

5. Let him take that bullet.

Without a licences to practice law, he no longer works for Trump or anyone else. Personally, I hope the scumbag falls on his sword. But, time will tell.....

[jberryhill]

3. Why would he?

He's going to be facing disbarment for representing Trump and paying off the pornstar without Trumps knowledge.

I don't understand that assertion at all.

Has he made any sort of false sworn statement in a legal proceeding?

He has no obligation to make any public statements on the subject at all.

[Glamrock]

6. I'm going off what lawyers had to say on Lawrence last night.

They were saying you can't make decisions and act on them for a client without said clients knowledge. Grounds for disbarment.

[jberryhill]

9. Has his client filed a complaint against him?

[Glamrock]

12. From what I gather, it doesn't matter.

A lawyer cannot act for a client without said clients knowledge. He has claimed he did all this without Trump knowing anything about it.

[jberryhill]

22. No one other than he and Trump know what was communicated between them

A third party doesn't have any basis to assert what was or was not communicated between them, regardless of what Cohen says on the TeeVee machine.

[Glamrock]

26. Maybe you're right.

Again, going off of what a bunch of lawyers had to say about it last night. They all seemed to be in agreement that his ability to practice was in jeopardy.

[jberryhill]

27. The other thing is...

His bar admission is pretty much irrelevant at this point anyway. It's not as if he makes a living actually practicing law.

[Glamrock]

31. Uuuuuh

I disagree. His entire career is based on being Trumps personal lawyer.

[EffieBlack]

37. Um, yeah ...

[leftynyc]

16. You're thinking about the legality

of the situation. Something doesn't have to be illegal for someone to be disbarred. Engaging in and approving an agreement between your client and someone else, without your client's knowledge, is HIGHLY unethical and would likely lead to disbarment. So he either has to admit he did it with donnie's knowledge (which screws donnie) or say he did it on his own (which screws himself).

[jberryhill]

23. And he has to admit this to whom?

He does not have to communicate with you, me, or anyone else about his communications with his client.

[Glamrock]

30. To the court

It's part of the lawsuit which I stated in another post. Are you friends with this dude?

KIDDING! Absolutely kidding! I'm enjoying the back and forth. Please don't get bent out of shape!

[jberryhill]

43. No, I am not friends with this dude

But one thing that most actual lawyers learn pretty quick is that desiring an outcome, and objectively evaluating claims, are two different things.

Underlying a lot of the supposed "legal analysis" is a strong does of confirmation bias. He's a bad guy, so he'll get what's coming to him.

There are people who believe the legal system operates on that principle of "He's a bad guy, so he'll get what's coming to him".

A frequent feature of legal discussions on DU is the inevitable assertion, made by you jokingly but more frequently made by others seriously, that I'm somehow friendly toward or in some other manner predisposed favorably toward, this bunch of clowns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/03/i-bought-the-website-trump-org-then-donald-trump-came-after-me/?utm_term=.e05ae10e8c3e

After John Berryhill, the lawyer I hired, sent a sharply worded letter back in reply, Trump and his legal team went away and never bothered me again. “Put simply,” Berryhill wrote, “your employer is a national laughingstock and disgrace, and any citizen of this great country of ours has the right to point that out.”

[PJMcK]

50. Great story!

I remember reading the outlines when it happened. Sounds like your "sharply worded letter" shut them down pretty quickly!

[EffieBlack]

38. Not trying to be snarky

But do you actually practice law?

[jberryhill]

41. PA 83911

Last edited Thu Mar 8, 2018, 05:13 PM - Edit history (1)

USPTO 36245

I have also been an expert witness in an IP attorney malpractice case, and I do not believe for one red hot second that any accrediting authority is going to act on a third party complaint on the basis of statements made on television or in the press in relation to pending litigation.

[jberryhill]

44. Since you want to make it personal

Can you tell me when in your career you have ever successfully shut up Trump's legal team?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/03/i-bought-the-website-trump-org-then-donald-trump-came-after-me/?utm_term=.e05ae10e8c3e

After John Berryhill, the lawyer I hired, sent a sharply worded letter back in reply, Trump and his legal team went away and never bothered me again. “Put simply,” Berryhill wrote, “your employer is a national laughingstock and disgrace, and any citizen of this great country of ours has the right to point that out.”

I don't appreciate your personal insinuation.

[EffieBlack]

45. It's too bad you took such offense at my question

Asking if you practice is not a personal insult, since there's nothing wrong with being a non-practicing lawyer. But it's surprising to see an attorney who actually practices law so unfamiliar with and even dismissive of the ethics rules that all practicing lawyers are bound by.

And congratulations on your getting rid of Trump on behalf of your client.

[jberryhill]

48. I answered your question

So, perhaps you might humor me with an answer to this question.

Is this, or is this not, an ethical rule applying to you:


Rule 8.3 Reporting Professional Misconduct

(a) A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects, shall inform the appropriate professional authority.

If this is an ethical rule applying to you, when did you file your report?

[EffieBlack]

49. Now youre just being ridiculous

i’m not going to jump through your hoops. Find someone else who doesn’t see through such bs to play with.

[jberryhill]

51. ah, the rule only applies to other people, right?

You said I was cavalier about the rules.

You are convinced you know of an attorney who has violated one. You know full well you have a duty to report ethical misconduct by other attorneys.

What's the BS?

Do you deny that is a rule of practice?

[leftynyc]

39. The Bar Association (n/t)

[Glamrock]

28. Thanks lefty

I'm off work today and hitting the old bottle. I'm not particularly succinct in this situation.

[EffieBlack]

18. It's violation of the Canons of Ethics for a lawyer to foot bills for their clients

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. He's probably been doing all kinds of shady, unethical, and illegal things in service to his master. And given how dim and arrogant he seems, he likely didn't do a very good job of covering his tracks - he probably thought he never got caught before because he was so slick, when in reality it was probably because he wasn't important enough for anyone to care what he was dosing. But he's about to be in a world of hurt.

[jberryhill]

24. You can cite to "Canons" all you want

But if you want to cite to the applicable state regulation, and explain to me how a third party is going to be in a position to make any sort of complaint about what went on in the context of the lawyer-client relationship here, then draw me a diagram of how the process is going to work there.

He is the principal of Essential Consultants LLC, which is a joint party to the contract. Essential Consultants LLC made the payment.

Are you trying to say that the principal of a company cannot pay the contracted expenses of his own company, if he happens to be a lawyer?

[EffieBlack]

36. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying

If the lawyer set up a shell company for the sole purpose of paying off someone to keep them from exposing embarrassing information about a presidential candidate days before an election when the company has no other business activity or expenses and the lawyer had no involvement in or liabilty for the underlying behavior giving rise to the agreement, yes indeedie I'm saying we're looking at a pretty serious ethics (not to mention FEC) violation.

[jberryhill]

40. I believe we are looking at an FEC violation

I do not believe for a nanosecond that any bar is going to give two shits about an ethics complaint filed by an uninterested third party on the basis of media statements.

[Blue_Adept]

4. One of a handful in the never camp.

[CincyDem]

7. Cohen will NEVER filp, he's a zealot for the cult. One of Trump's first apostles. n/t

[HopeAgain]

8. But the Bar is not going to investigate

unless the client (Trump) makes a complaint.

[Glamrock]

13. I could be wrong, I'll be the first to admit.

But as it's in the lawsuit, I'm gathering they won't have a choice but to investigate.....


Not a lawyer. Just what I've picked up from various discussions.

[EffieBlack]

19. That's not true

The bar doesn't need a client to complain in order to investigate a lawyer's conduct.

And if ends up under federal investigation, they'll definitely take it up.

[jberryhill]

25. Once more with feeling....

Where did he, as an attorney to Trump, pay an expense of Trump's?

Essential Consultants LLC was obligated to pay $130,000 under the contract.

Essential Consultants LLC paid the $130,000.

Just because someone says something on the TeeVee machine does not make it so.

Aside from which, when was the last time he actually represented a party in a proceeding where his bar admission would be relevant in the first place?

[EffieBlack]

34. He said himself that he paid this out of his own pocket

If he said it "on the teevee machine," whether it was true or not, that's certainly enough to launch a complaint. And if it turns out he was lying, that's another ethical problem since lawyers aren't supposed to go around lying to the public.

Lawyers who aren't admitted to any bar can do lots of things. But they can't practice law, they can't represent clients, they can't hold themselves out as attorneys-at-law, and they can't charge or accept legal fees, so a bar admission is very relevant to a man who makes his living as an attorney representing high-end clients.

[jberryhill]

42. Ah, yes, the great roster of attorneys disbarred for "lying to the public"

As if that's ever happened absent a definite legal duty to do so.

[EffieBlack]

46. Wow.

Ok.

[jberryhill]

47. Go ahead and name some of them

Name the last attorney in your jurisdiction who was disbarred for making a false public statement to the press.

This creature is still licensed to practice law in California in good standing, despite being sanctioned TWICE by federal courts:

The facts and circumstances of whatever went on in this whole set of transactions is the subject of a pending lawsuit. Maybe you've never worked closely on a matter of attorney discipline, but the notion that a bar disciplinary committee is going to wade into anything that is the subject of live litigation reflects a lack of familiarity of how disciplinary committees operate generally. It is not uncommon for persons to file ethical complaints as an ancillary strategy in litigation. For example, do you think it is appropriate to file an ethics complaint in parallel with a Rule 11 motion in federal litigation? Have you ever done so? If so, what was the result? I can tell you without looking what the result was if you have done that.

There is, of course, nothing stopping you from filing a complaint. Right now. At your computer. With the disciplinary committee in Cohen's state of licensure.

You are sure a violation has been committed, and I do not need to remind you that it is ALSO a duty of an attorney to report violations of the rules by other attorneys.

So you are admitting, right now, that by not filing that complaint, you are violating an ethical rule.


Rule 8.3 Reporting Professional Misconduct

(a) A lawyer who knows that another lawyer has committed a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct that raises a substantial question as to that lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness as a lawyer in other respects, shall inform the appropriate professional authority.

So, let's tick off the elements.

Are you a lawyer? Yes.

Do you claim to know that another lawyer has committed a violation? Yes

Do you or do you not have a duty to report it?

Tell me why you believe you do not have that duty.

[magicarpet]

10. Cohen is a scumbag thug Mafia lawyer...

..... who has zero ethics, who knows what he will do. Expect high drama, theater, chaos, and mayhem as they try to worm their way out of their highly questionable and illegal conduct.

[Sunsky]

32. This nt

[Corgigal]

11. He can't flip.

Trump appears to be his only claim to fame. After what he did last week with Stormy Daniels, by activating a dying story, he also doesn't appear to be a good one. A good attorney wouldn't work for Trump anyway. Who would need that?

[MerryBlooms]

14. I think he'd commit suicide if it got to that point.

[Glamrock]

15. From your lips to gods ears baby!

No..... I am serious. These people are dismantling my country. I have no sympathy.

I do however believe he ain't going to give up his ability to practice law for Comrade comb over.

It will be leaked that Trump was in the know.... Hoping that'll take the focus off him. IMHO.

[EffieBlack]

17. He strikes me as one whose sense of loyalty is directly proportionate

to what personal value that loyalty brings to him. Until now, his loyalty to Trump was very lucrative. But that's about to change and his connection to Trump is now starting to drag him down, so I suspect he'll soon leave Trump in the dust and find a new ass to kiss - and Mueller's is probably starting to look pretty yummy to him right about now.

[Glamrock]

20. That's where my thoughts are Effie

What's he gonna do if he can't practice law. Manage a Burger King? (No offense to Burger King managers) This lawsuit, specifically naming his own violations, will get him to turn. If not, his career is over. And you know Trump has no use for a lawyer who can't practice law.

[EffieBlack]

21. And he has to worry about Trump turning on him

And considering how much dirt Trump has on him ...

[redstateblues]

29. Dont forget. Trump stiffed him for the 130K

[Phoenix61]

33. He'll flip as soon as he gets squeezed hard enough

He knows Twitler values loyality above all else so why wouldn't he say he'd take a bullet for him. Why would anyone think he is telling the truth?

[meadowlander]

35. He's a professional bully.

He'll bluster and squirm but when his nuts are in the vise, I don't see him dying in a ditch for anyone else.