Remember The 15 New Mexico Boy Who Killed Both Parents & 3 Siblings? He's Getting Released

[SoCalMusicLover]

Oh, and he is applying for a name change to be issued under seal.

I think the NRA needs to send him some membership materials. I'm sure he'll have no trouble getting his hands on a gun again.

[McCamy Taylor]

1. They can make him a poster child for the 2nd ammendment.

[MichMary]

2. Wait . . . what???? n/t

[Fred Sanders]

4. Exactly. No link, no credibility.

[whathehell]

3. Could you give us a link?

[janx]

5. Release delayed. Prosecutors are fighting it:

http://www.koat.com/article/release-delayed-for-teen-who-killed-family/19377447

The kid was getting ready to change his name upon release, too.

[tblue37]

32. This kid had plans to kill more people and then die in a shootout with police

(emphasis added):

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/21/16628682-new-mexico-teen-accused-of-killing-family-wanted-to-kill-more-police-say?lite=:

snip

Nehemiah told them that he had been having suicidal and homicidal thoughts. He said he shot his mother with a .22 rifle around midnight as she slept. He said his 9-year-old brother woke up after the gunfire and that he told him he had just shot their mother.

"Nehemiah stated his brother did not believe him so Nehemiah picked up his mother's head to show his brother her bloody face," the statement said. "Nehemiah stated his brother became upset so he shot his brother in the head with the same rifle he used to shoot his mother."

He then went into the bedroom his two younger sisters share and found them crying. He told police that he shot both of them in the head. Then he said that he went downstairs and waited for his father to return. His father returned at 5 a.m. that morning.

Nehemiah told police he shot his father multiple times with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle with a scope, according to the document, then said he reloaded the weapons with the intention of driving to an area where he could shoot more people. He told police that he wanted to die exchanging fire with law enforcement.

snip

[janx]

6. Link to name change request info:

http://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news/nehemiah-griego-name-change/4819462/

[smirkymonkey]

8. He looks evil.

I predict this will not turn out well.

[janx]

10. Mental illness, I've always suspected.

Our state AG doesn't want him out, and our state AG is by no means a hard liner when it comes to such things.

[NCTraveler]

7. I hope he can become a well adjusted member of society.

Not sure of the details.

[janx]

9. Doubtful. His own sister doesn't want him to get out:

http://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news/court-of-appeals-to-hear-case-of-man-who-killed-parents-3-siblings/4756690/

[NCTraveler]

13. Just read some of the articles.

Really messed up. Our whole detention process needs to change.

[sarah FAILIN]

39. But...

There is a horrible babysitter in Oregon doing 21 years for giving kids melatonin. We need kids like this doing time too but he will walk.

[LisaL]

12. And I hope that pigs learn to fly.

[NCTraveler]

14. That would be amazing.

Do you picture them with wings like a bird? I’ve always thought that was a bit far out there. I imagine them with jet packs. Either way it’s really cute to imagine.

[LisaL]

21. Just as amazing as the guy in question becoming a law abiding and well behaved member of society.

[ecstatic]

11. He can buy all the guns and bump stocks he wants

under our current laws. He killed 5 people. His own family. He has zero to lose at this point. Are they really going to let this guy go? He probably belongs in an institution.

[Lee-Lee]

16. No, he cant. That is an outright lie

He has multiple felony convictions on his record. He can’t buy guns, he can’t own guns, he can’t even pick up and hold a gun for one second under our current laws.

Why did people who push for more gun laws have to constantly lie and misrepresent what the laws are now?

[ecstatic]

18. Are you sure? He was tried as a juvenile. Doesn't that mean that

his past gets erased?

[Lee-Lee]

19. Not for those purposes

Federal law prohibits possession of a firearm by anyone convicted of a felony, any misdemeanors punishable by over a year of incarceration (regardless of actual sentence) or anyone convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence in any court.

That last part, in any court, is the applicable part. That means it includes juvenile courts.

[Ms. Toad]

20. In juvenile courts, generally, you are not convicted of the felony -

you are found delinquent.

When statutes are intended to treat juvenile offenses the same as the adult equivalent, they usually include language like: or any offense committed as a juvenile that would be "a misdemeanor punishable by over a year of incarceration . . . " if charged as an adult.

so the matter isn't which court, it is determination of conviction - because juveniles typically aren't convicted.

[LisaL]

23. And aren't juvenile records sealed?

Would his crimes even come out in background check? Especially if he changes his name as he plans.

[Ms. Toad]

25. Generally -

but there might be special laws in connection with background checks, or reporting to the NICS database. To become an attorney, for example, juvenile records must be disclosed.

[ecstatic]

29. I tried to google info on whether people with a juvenile delinquent past could purchase firearms

and no clear answer came through. There were some lawyers and people with juvenile pasts who said YES. Particularly if the records are sealed. From what I saw during the search, it seems very easy for someone with a juvenile past that includes murder to slip through the cracks UNLESS the state has proactively set clear guidelines regarding it.

[Ms. Toad]

30. That is likely the case.

There are a couple constitutional factors at play:

* Impairing a constitutional right (second amendment) requires a pretty high standard - since the juvenile actions result in a finding of delinquency, rather than a conviction, that would need to be tested
* deprivation of property rights without due process - related to the 2nd amendment constitutional rights - imposing new barriers, after the right to purchase a gun exists, would be problematic (especially since the property right is also a constitutional right)
* Ex post facto laws (imposing additional punishment after the crime was committed) The sexual offender registries, as to offenses committed prior to the enactment of the registry laws - requiring registry on release from prison have been found constitutional - but there would be the same kind of challenges - aside from those places in which the state has proactively set clear guidelines regarding it (in advance of the crime)

[tblue37]

31. If he gets that name change, he will be hard to track, so he probably won't find

it hard to get guns.

[Lee-Lee]

33. The court will notify NICS

If they don’t then that’s a failure of the courts to do their job, it won’t make it legal.

[tblue37]

34. Just as the military is supposed to notify about domestic abuse--but doesn't.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/air-force-failed-report-texas-suspects-convictions-fbi/story?id=50969640

Air Force didn't share info that would have blocked Texas shooter from gun buys

snip

Kelley, the gunman accused of carrying out Sunday’s deadly church shooting in Sutherland Springs, Texas, that killed 26, was convicted by a military court in 2012 on charges of assault and aggravated assault on his then-wife and a child, which should have prevented him from purchasing firearms, an Air Force official said today.

snip

[Lee-Lee]

35. Yep. All the rules in the workd are useless if the people in charge of them dont do their jobs

It’s one thing to have a rule, it’s another so have it mean anything because it get enforced.

Just like it’s illegal to be a felon or other prohibited person and lie to try and get a gun. Tens of thousands of them do every year, committing a felony, and nothing is done to them in 99% of those cases either.

If you don’t have real enforcement of rules and laws on both sides- the citizens and the government- than you can pass all you want and it won’t change anything.

[ecstatic]

36. If that's the case, then we need a nation wide moratorium

on ALL gun sales until the various agencies get their shit together.

[Lee-Lee]

37. You cant take away a civil right due to government incompetence

That isn’t how this works.

Using your logic we should also put a wide moritorium on election until we can be sure they are all down properly with no interference, no outside, no voter suppression.

And even f you wouldn’t support that, the precedent you would set doing it for one right would open the door wide for doing it for every other.

[TheSmarterDog]

38. So, let's get rid of the rules?

[Lee-Lee]

40. No, you make ones and back them up with enough enforcement to ensure compliance

Will you ever have 100% compliance? Of course not. But there is an equilibrium where you have enough enforcement to get people to generally comply, and you can swing past that to a point of finishing returns in enforcement activity where you go too far and you don’t get much more compliance but you do end up harassing people or seeming to.

Take speeding. Speed limits are set with the knowledge that people will generally go a big faster than the limit, that is human nature. They exist for the purpose of keeping accidents on the streets and highways lower.

If you have speed limits but there is nobody enforcing them with tickets or warnings, then you may as well not have speed limits. Because then the people who would have been inclined to drive safely would anyway and the people who are inclined to drive too fast will do whatever they want, since there is no reason to obey the law.

Then you add enforcement. If there isn’t enough then people will play the odds and still speed, as enforcement levels rise so does compliance as people judge it’s not worth the risk and cost of a ticket.

Eventually you hit that seeet spot in enforcement where you have the most compliance you can get without going overboard on enforcement.

If you push too far past that then you end up using manpower for very little additional return and just pissing off people.

In all of Law Enforcment it’s about finding that sweet spot, with just the right level of enforcement happening to get your 99% or so compliance rate.

Right now on gun laws we are way lax on that. The two examples we discussed show it- first the states and federal agencies are not doing their job under the law and updating NICS records. Background checks without a database that is accurate are going to let way too many slip through.

Second, when we find out a person who is actively trying to buy a gun who is legally barred from owning a gun is trying to get one, when they get rejected by a background check, we don’t do anything. Less than 1% of those cases get investigated and prosecuted. So Joe Felon goes to buy a gun, commits a felony in doing so, gets denied and just walks away. What does Joe Felon learn? After nobody follows up and nobody cares that he just committed a felony and nobody cares that he is a felon actively seeking a gun he learns he can get away with owning a gun just by going to the black market or stealing one or having a friend or family member do a straw purchase.

If we did the right thing and enforced the law and prosecuted all those people- tens of thousands a year- it would send the message that we really don’t tolerate felons and other prohibited persons owning guns.

But right now that isn’t what is done.

[TheSmarterDog]

41. And that's exactly what rational people are trying to do.

But your replies just parrot the old failed warmed over RW NRA talking points. That's the poison that has brought us to the evil position we're in now.

[SoCalMusicLover]

15. WHY?

How in the hell does someone who KILLED FIVE PEOPLE, get out of custody EVER?

I don't care if he was 15 years old. So he's under 18, big fucking deal. Does a 15 year old not know the difference between right and wrong?

What happens if he goes nuts again? Thoughts & Prayers?

[Lee-Lee]

17. Because some people push for juveniles to never be tried as adults

or face adult charges.


That leads to cases like this where you have a their defense given the ability to make plea deals that take the charges down to where they will only be handled in the juvenile justice system, where they can’t be held after they are 21.

[LisaL]

22. Because he was a minor and judge decided to sentence him as a minor.

Minors are supposed to be released at 21, no matter what the crime.

[janx]

24. Ruling sends Griego case back to judge

Just 11 days before he was set for release from a juvenile detention center, Nehemiah Griego, who killed his parents and three siblings five years ago, learned that his case is being sent back before a judge for a hearing that could land him in adult prison, with a possible maximum 120 years.

The reversal was issued in a state Court of Appeals ruling Friday in an appeal by the Attorney General’s Office attempting to get Griego reclassified and sentenced as an adult.

. . .

“It’s one of the rare occasions of first impression,” said state Attorney General Hector Balderas, referencing the legal term for issues that have never arisen. “The Court (of Appeals) got it right in weighing public safety and weighing the treatment needs of Nehemiah.”

https://www.abqjournal.com/1143921/judge-ordered-to-reconsider-griegos-amenability.html

It's not over yet, but we have a great Attorney General.

[marybourg]

26. Its one of the rare occasions of first impression,

That's too funny! In my experience there were very frequent cases of first impression in New Mexico in ordinary practice as recently as 25 years ago (that's recent to someone my age). Issues that had been established law in eastern states for 50 - 100 years were cases of first impression in NM in the 1980's. Made for interesting practice.

[left-of-center2012]

27. No. You're wrong. Fake news.

You might want to correct your title.
His release is on hold, and he may be re-sentenced as an adult.

[LisaL]

28. He was set to be released but prosecution appealed.

Case is going back to the judge, and it is not clear if he is going to be released or not. That's not fake news.