General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid the reduction to ignorance of our citizens begin in the 60s?
I am a septuagenarian. I graduated high school on the mid 60s. Back then, in high school, we have formal classes in arts and sciences, letters and logic, even religion and theology. We also had formal classes in citizenship, government, and civics.
My kids went to school in the late 70s and early 80s. Those classes were watered down. Some were eliminated. Mandatory student testing was just starting.
Today, classes having to do with government are essentially non existent.
Is it any wonder we have the ignorant citizenry we have? Is it any wonder that "alternative facts" are simply accepted? Is it any wonder that the constant lies of Fox News are seen as truth? Is it any wonder our government is peopled by individuals who pander to that ignorance?
Was all of this some long term plan or just happenstance?
elleng
(130,769 posts)Same age group as you, and had to send our kids to private schools. Has seemed like a plan to me, even tho in Dem area; lived in DC.
NO WONDER at all we have such an ignorant citizenry.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)and "victimology"....that has overtaken our country AND the fact that some how white men are "victims" and white people are victims. This has been the underlying message for a couple decades. Todays kids are way smarter and have better access to real information not just alternative facts
niyad
(113,095 posts)of money we do (however underfunded) for as long as we have, for the ignorance NOT to be the intended outcome.
as I have been saying since I was in school (back before the earth's crust cooled), you cannot control a populace capable of critical thought. the deplorables are living proof of that.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There has always been a core of really ignorant Americans, around 35-40%, depending on the period. Those people have always struck out against knowledge and learning.
hlthe2b
(102,141 posts)which were quite good when I went to school in the late 60's to early 80s. I have had a lot of student 'interns' in master's degree programs report to me, who simply can not write. These young adults somehow made it through college (of some type) and into graduate school, with the writing and spelling skills of a fifth grader.
Civics, history, grammar, spelling, writing, basic science, problem-solving, anything beyond basic basic math? Nada
I find it alarming. Like global warming, it only gives me a guilty relief that I don't have children. Relief yes, but guilt, absolutely. I DO care.
That said, the MSD-Parkville kids give me hope. I just wish the education that they are receiving was more widespread.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)You were probably "well educated" by the standards of your day. People for a long time were put into "tracks" based upon perceptions of who they would become. Some were pushed into liberal arts curricula that would set them up for college degrees. Others were pushed into "trade" paths that would set them up for blue collar or other hourly jobs. It wasn't right in some senses, there was alot of bias in this. But it was also true that people who were educated were admired. We grew up in a blue collar neighborhood and my father had a PhD. He was president of the church council. People on the street consulted him on a wide variety of issues.
Union members followed the lead of their leaders. Yes, people followed the lead of their church leaders. Doctors, lawyers, all manner of professionals were "trusted" to lead.
That pretty much died with Nixon and Reagan. It was the beginning of the dumbing down of politics and the failure of trust in knowledge and leadership. The Vietnam War with their Friday Follies didn't help either. For a while the only thing left was folks like Walter Cronkite. Even that is dead now. And knowledge and education aren't valued anymore. People wear their ignorance as a symbol of pride. (I'm no scientist but...). No one is embarrassed to be shown to be wrong. "Well it seems true...". You can shoot someone on Park Avenue in broad daylight and you will lose no admiration what so ever.
dameatball
(7,395 posts)Including some of my relatives. But I do agree we have shortchanged our kids by not teaching those subjects, yes. As for the public/private debate I think the differences are mostly in specific circumstances. Private schools can also be more selective about who they enroll.
On the other hand, Trump went to a private military school and look how that turned out.
DavidDvorkin
(19,469 posts)Kids these days.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And gained speed when monopolies were given the go ahead in TV, radio and newspapers.
Fox "news" and Hate radio and unlimited secret funding of politicians were the final nails in the coffin.
FSogol
(45,456 posts)Every high school student in Virginia takes 2 years of US/VA Government classes.
As for your other points, I have a book at home where the author complains that children spend too much indoors and don't do the fun kinds of things outside that he and his friends did as a kid. The book, by Ernest Thompson Seton was written in 1890s.
I point this out because as we age, we feel education is watered down. The opposite is true.
That said, there is a group of people in our nation that are anti-education and anti-thinking. They are against change to the point that they don't want anything to improve. Fox News and the GOP pander to those people.
CrispyQ
(36,424 posts)Hence, this is where we're at:
Thanks to the DUer who posted this originally!
Initech
(100,043 posts)And hate is generally a byproduct of ignorance. But it was definitely a long, slow build to get what we have now.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)older people who were part of that Magical Happy Funtime Education Utopia?
Hekate
(90,565 posts)This showed up simultaneously with a push to save money.
So Art and Music were not especially relevant (never mind they educate critical parts of the brain), and Latin certainly was not, and who but those silly eggheads would ever need pre-calculus? And Civics? Oh, please, so dull and boring (actually that part was true, given the textbook!) -- clearly not relevant.
By the time my kids were half-grown there were school districts in Florida where parents would pitch a fit at the thought of their precious snowflakes being required to take Spanish at an early age. "It's too hard!" whined the adults.
Anyway... Every so often I find myself grumbling that my fellow Americans are really stupid, and that by choice.
fishwax
(29,148 posts)And while I wasn't around for it, based on what I know of history I'm willing to bet there was plenty of ignorance back in the day.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)The worse the schools seem to do. Anyone else notice that? I think the current phase began with Reagan and A Nation at Risk, as well as a few other reform movements that started in the late 70s.
Those schools of yore were supposedly terrible, producing terrible students. They put a man on the moon using slide rules; they invented the communications satellite and television; they split the atom, invented the microprocessor, connected humanity with the Internet and cellular phones; they fed the world with modern fertilizers and agricultural methods.
Regardless of test scores, we have an education system that is the envy of the world. Ive seen experts and researchers from all corners of the globe come to see how we do it: teaching ALL students to their highest possible ability, teaching students to think creatively, teaching students from impossibly diverse backgrounds.
There have always been stupid people. There always will be. Mark Twain complained about them. Plato complained about them.
Its not our job to complain about them. It is our obligation our moral duty to educate them. We ARE our brothers keepers.
NickB79
(19,224 posts)When I was 15. And I thank God for it, because it was such a valuable experience.
Of course, my school was in a rural part of Minnesota that felt like it existed in a secluded bubble of time, though.
moondust
(19,963 posts)and disparaging of government were part of anti-communist hysteria but were especially big during the 1980s neoliberal crusade of Reagan and Thatcher:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization#20th_century_onwards
Bill Clinton proclaimed "the era of big government is over."
I think it's even possible that executive pay has been jacked up to absurd levels partly to motivate young people to go into business and forget about lowly government careers.
Primacy of business.