General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMany Trump voters voted for Obama. Many are not racist. Some are. Not all. That's just the fact.
We must remember the plain fact that millions of people who actually voted for Obama switched to Trump in 2016. They are not racist. Their mills and factories have closed. Their towns are drying up. They have no hope. They wanted change. True, many tend to be more socially conservative. But that doesn't make them racist.
And even many Republicans who voted for Trump did so because he was their nominee, so they did it. They aren't racist.
Yes, some Trump voters are outright racist. That is true too. But not all.
Polling had about 20% of Trump voters not even liking him. But they held their nose and voted for him because they were desperate for change and were angry at Washington. Or, again, he was their party nominee so they held their nose and did it.
It is these registered Dems, Independents, and even moderate Republicans who voted for Trump that we want to get to vote for Dems again, and that means we need Dems running in those areas who are like Conor Lamb. More moderate, more independent minded, who focus on local issues and bread and butter economic issues, and who are more moderate to conservative on the social issues. We need to be a strong broad based NATIONAL party again, not just a coastal party stuck in a permanent minority.
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Response to LBM20 (Original post)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)as bad as the bigotry you claim to hate.
JI7
(89,239 posts)free to come out and admit they were wrong. but if they are going to be offended at people calling out racism more than at a PResident calling mexicans criminals and black people having nothing to lose than fuck that.
Response to JI7 (Reply #9)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to LBM20 (Reply #6)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)I actually hate free trade and no doubt my hubs has been injured by our current manufacturing system or lack thereof...but there is no way I would ever ever vote for someone like Trump because I am not a racist and do not support racists. Trump identified himself as a racist both before and during the campaign so anyone who voted for him knew this about him and were willing to tolerate racism thus they are racist.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Those assholes who like Trump while shitting in Dems.
We see you.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the ones you claim voted for Obama before are likely misogynistic. If they exist.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)That said, I wish you luck gaining traction with it here.. 
I call bullsh1t on your post
JI7
(89,239 posts)after he said cops unfairly target black/hispanic men.
Xipe Totec
(43,888 posts)Because when you fuck up a country it's important to know that you did it with good intentions.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)was not because they were all "racist."
WhiteTara
(29,692 posts)like peanut butter and jelly. And misogyny is even stronger than racism...it's been around for a few thousand years more than racism.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)learned here. Trump didn't really win.
brush
(53,740 posts)That's says quite a lot to me. If they are not racists let them come around to their senses and vote
Democratic but fuck spending any time courting their asses because in adjusting our policies and
stances to appeal to them we saying to huge portions of our loyal base: "Sorry, these people are
more important to us than you."
Nope, not a good idea. I say let's work even harder to GOTV and to stop repug cheating.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,106 posts)reasoned with, so the discussion is meaningless.
JI7
(89,239 posts)majority of white people who have mostly voted republican since civil rights doesn't mean they don't count.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)It was only after Reagan -- That's a 15 year gap between the mid-Sixties civil rights movement and his administration.
It was the While South that turned Republican, after the Civil Rights movement, NOT the white blue collar Northeast and Midwest.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)White voters have been steadily trending Republican since the mid-60s. Republican presidential candidates have won the white vote in every presidential election since Johnson won in 1964.
Reagan just sweetened the deal by making white resentment socially acceptable and ok to express out loud.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)They may have been *trending" but didn't comprise a majority until Reagan.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Republican presidential candidates have won the white vote in every presidential election since Johnson won in 1964. That’s just a fact.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)About I'm betting they are not indisputable.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Instead of “betting,” why don’t you look it up. Of course, you’re free to present YOUR source that disputes it.
In the meantime, your baseless claim has been debunked.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)especially when one considers that the majority of white Republicans in presidential elections are, as I said, from the South. Have a nice day.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2018, 01:25 PM - Edit history (1)
And trying to parse out Southern whites - which doesn’t even make any sense - doesn’t salvage your erroneous claim. But, I guess if you have no facts or statistics to back up your claim, that’s the best you can do.
You have a nice day, too.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)"which doesn't even make any sense no sense doesn't salvage your claim".
I can see things here that don't make any sense, but my claim isn't one of them.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)your claim or to contradict my source.
Unless or until you do, this conversation is over.
Again, enjoy the rest of your day.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)You enjoy yours as well. 
John Fante
(3,479 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I'd say she's got you.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)but I'd say there's more than one set of statistics on the issue, and if you don't realize that probability, she likely has you.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)the White vote after 1964, I have yet to see it.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And if you knew of another take you would have provided it
whathehell
(29,034 posts)I guess it never occurred to you that some of us might have lives.busy enough to preclude that sort of search. You have a nice day, now. 
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)work around here.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)That said, I'm amused by your repeated attempts to bait me -- It won't work, but it's fun watching you try.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)even the parts that didn't occur during "most of" your life.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)It's "since LBJ".
JI7
(89,239 posts)is it because they have lived such great lives compared to the whites who voted for Trump ?
stop making excuses for people.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)everyone who voted for Trump is a racist or sexist. That simply is not true. Some, yes. Not all. And we are politically stupid to just write off all Trump voters. That is shallow thinking.
JI7
(89,239 posts)When he calls them criminals, shithole countries.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Tribalism - especially white tribalism - dies hard.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)dchill
(38,441 posts)If you vote for a racist, you support racism. You can't support racism if you're not a racist. Absolute.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)it is a dealbreaker. But some are way more concerned with trade and wage issues...I saw that in Ohio so I can't say all of the Trump voters are racist in their personal lives... they just don't care about it as much as other stuff. Which makes them a kind of racist really. I knew Trump was a big racist liar ( high school in Connecticut and he bankrupted some of Dad's friends)and racism is a voting issue for me so he could talk about trade until he the cows came home...and I wouldn't vote for him.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)We can be gracious to those that own up to their mistakes, not so much for the others
whathehell
(29,034 posts)Unfortunately, some here are too committed to their narrative to deal with the the more complex reality.
ck4829
(35,038 posts)Response to LBM20 (Original post)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)We are trying to understand why people who are not racist voted for Trump. They did it because of economic stress, anger at Washington, etc. We need to understand this because we have just seen that we can get many of these people to vote for Dems again. We should not just write them off. You are making broad brush statements.
Response to LBM20 (Reply #13)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
JI7
(89,239 posts)Compared to the white trump voters ?
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)If you tolerate such a person and vote for him than you are racist as well. A non-racist wouldn't vote for the Trump scum.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They are a minority even in victory.
kydo
(2,679 posts)We DO NOT need to woo, understand, or try to get any votes from that lot racists and bigots that says they ain't racist or bigots.
We simply DO NOT need them. That's awesome that some of that lot voted for Obama. But it doesn't make them not racist for doing the smart thing once.
We need to get OUR own base out to vote. We do that and we win. Don't matter how gerrymandered the district is or how many russians vote. We out number them. We just need to get out and vote. In the AL race it was black women that won that seat for Jones. In VA it was women that created the blood bath in their recent election.
We don't need those white rural male voters to win.
And personally I don't want racists and bigots in my party. And frankly if you are a republican these days, you are more then likely a racist. And I don't care if I offend people like that with the truth. They are the people with the problem not us. Fuck them and their racists orange man. Just Fuck them.
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)...they are beneficiaries of white privilege that blinds them to Trump and his supporters' attitudes toward POC. They don't care enough about the impact on POC because it doesn't affect them. Which makes them RACIST.
"Racist" doesn't just mean "member of a white supremacist group". That is THEIR definition of "racist". It means biased. Which they are.
kydo
(2,679 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)As for they're being "beneficiaries of white privilege" , aren't all white people beneficiaries of that, regardless of how they vote?
The fact is, people of ALL colors tend to consider their own interests first.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)They also have continually turned a deaf ear to people of color who have told them what a threat this man is to us.
STOP TRYING TO EXPLAIN AND DEFEND THEM!!!
Not only stop trying to defend them but STOP trying to court them. We don't need them. Personally I don't want them in my party. Now if they gave up their racist and bigot ways, they would join us without the need for much courting. But they ain't gonna change. So it is a wasted effort. Screw them! We don't need them!
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)Not all who voted for Trump still support him, though most no doubt still do. As much as any generality can be true, what you wrote is absolutely true. Turning a blind eye to racism when you see it, and actually taking actions that allow it to continue on its course (voting for Trump), is full complicity in that crime.
There has not been a major national election cycle since Trump became President. I have no problem with Democratic candidates now trying to enlighten former Trump voters of their error as long as they don't pander to his racist core supporters. It is a time of reckoning for all former Trump voters. The truth about Trump is established in fact now - there is no wiggle room left for delusional denial. For those who are not racist or indifferent to racism they have now used up the first half of the famous slogan "Fool me once, shame on you." They are now at "Fool me twice, shame on me" in the absolutely most considerate scenario - one that indeed should still bring shame down on them. More likely though anyone fooled twice was never fooled to begin with.They were OK with racism all along.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)To quote a racist.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)Trump boasted of grabbing women's pussies, which everyone knew, and he was running against a woman, so you had to be OK with misogyny to vote for him. Obama ran against men, so that wasn't an issue then. So that was the kind of change his voters were looking for.
Trump also ran on hatred of Mexicans, which everyone knew. Again, no one in 2012 or 2008 had a particular Mexican connection, so this was the change - Trump voters are xenophobic. That's the change you say they were desperate for.
You're right - not all racists are sexist, and vice versa. Some may be fine with African-Americans, but despise Hispanic immigrants. But to vote for Trump after that election, when the hatred he embodies was plain, you have to share some of that hatred too. No one is that blind.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)whathehell
(29,034 posts)was not hard to see, even in some who were anti-Trump.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)So the fact that that are "not racist" means jack shit to me.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)People ought to remember HRC's full comments about their being two baskets, not just one.
ollie10
(2,091 posts)Consider that Lamb did not spend much time dissing Trump during the campaign.
1) waste of time: people already know of Trump's shortcomings
2) the time you spend bashing Trump would be better spent telling voters why they should vote for us
3) in order to win, you have to get people who voted for Trump to vote for us....bashing Trump will just rankle their feathers and make them think we think they are idiots...so counter-productive
We need to learn from this, from what works.
We have the winning message. It is economics. We support the working class, the Rs give tax breaks to the very rich and give the rest of us crumbs. It is health care. This was the number one issue among voters Tuesday.
It makes us feel good to bash Trump. The essential question is whether it is more important to feel good or to play smart (like Lamb) and defeat the son of a bitch?
poboy2
(2,078 posts)Inside I know a lot of the trumpets are despicable assholes, but this is strategic, smart thinking.
It won't be appreciated, but you are thinking smart.
Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)Obama had more than Romney and McCain.
Trump had more than Hillary.
Yes, some people are that simple and don’t care (or want to understand) about policy.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)contest in the end.
Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)who were fairly intelligent that voted for Trump.
A married couple who didn’t have interest in politics.
Thinks both parties are corrupt.
They thought Trump was funny and he would rattle cages in Washington.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)That may not be the classic definition of racism, but it can park next to it and walk over.
What do they think of him now? Are they still laughing?
Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)But, otherwise they think he’s a joke.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Some folk us don’t have that luxury.
Are they likely to vote for him again?
Funtatlaguy
(10,862 posts)Depends on who emerges from both primaries. I do expect Kasich or Flake to primary Trump.
They don’t always vote but did vote for Obama the first time.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But there must be something about him they like.
What do you think that is?
treestar
(82,383 posts)That is why we are in such bad shape. Letting people be stupid and just catering to it.
Whiskeytide
(4,459 posts)... phenomenon in our culture. I know quite a few people who voted for Trump (live in a very red state) who really cannot articulate why. I tell them they. voted for a TV personality. It really is that simple for many.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)It certainly isn't his gregarious personality and powerful speaking skills.
Kirk Lover
(3,608 posts)Wherever there is a city - you have Democrats. I don't think it does any good to repeat that line because it's not true.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Atticus
(15,124 posts)policies, racist laws and the appointment of racist clones throughout the government. "Not racist" my pasty white ass!
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)...when making their decision. The opinions of POC are important to a lot of us. They gave no weight to that, or to the fact that POC overwhelmingly didn't vote for him.
Sorry, that is racist.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)33% percent of Hispanic males and 13% of Black males voted for him...Are they racist too?
haele
(12,640 posts)I've known one or two well off Hispanics and Blacks who despise the poorer members of their own race for being "too lazy and ignorant" because they don't better themselves and depend on expectations of handouts - and especially for "too ethnic"- with that low-class music and attitude.
Just like there are too many women who voted for Drumpf because, frankly, he's rich bully and that's what they expect "strong leaders" to be.
Haele
Demit
(11,238 posts)As if people who live on the coast are somehow out of touch and don't have concerns about bread and butter economic issues. Talk about painting with a broad brush!
Also offensive: you are implying that the Democrats are in the minority solely because of how people vote. Ever heard of gerrymandering? In Pennsylvania, Democrats received slightly more than 50% of the vote in recent elections, yet do not hold 50% of the offices. Gerrymandering by Republicans is the cause of that. THAT'S why Democrats are in the minority in PA, and in who we send to Congress, not because our message is rejected by the voters.
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)Republicans to ignore the will of the voters which subverts our democracy.
Demit
(11,238 posts)Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)then they don't get to call us "coastal" and make it sound like we don't count.
I am sick of the idea we have to cater to them and we don't count.
Demit
(11,238 posts)I don't know who first commandeered it for politics. Maybe some reporter who wanted a hip phrase to look in-the-know. But it's been adopted as shorthand by those who would deliberately divide us.
We're a big country. Different regions, with different regional concerns, different weather, different topography. There are big cities in the interior states and small towns on the coasts.
Americans are Americans no matter where we live. I live on the east coast and I am every bit a "real American" as anybody the OP wants me to understand, make allowances for, or be sensitive to.
LOL, end rant
stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)writes3000
(4,734 posts)At the very least, Trump voters willfully ignored Trump’s racist clarion call which launched his campaign. How racist does that make someone? Up for interpretation, I guess. But it is disturbing nonetheless.
Squinch
(50,911 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)The same people who say we must be sensitive and listen to racist Trump supporters turn around and tell the minorities we don’t know what we’re talking about, our feelings don’t matter and shut up please because we’re making too much noise and it’s making it difficult for them to hear the pain of the poor misunderstood, wrongfully maligned Trump supporter..
Squinch
(50,911 posts)EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Squinch
(50,911 posts)Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)You can be biased, without being a bigot. Actually, we are all biased, it's just that some of use are more conscious of it than others. Trump voters by and large are biased against people "not like themselves". It is the core of the GOP. It's what's behind most of their core principals. It's that idea that if "people would just do..." where they solve all the worlds problems if they could just force people to choose/behave/live like they do.
We had a cultural revolution in the '60s where I thought we had worked all this out. Where men were allowed to have a haircut longer than a crew cut. Where women were supposed to be able to have a career. Where black and white people were supposed to be able to fall in love. Where jews were supposed to be able to join the country club.
The GOP is still pissed about all that.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)All Trump voters are not racist.
All Trump voters who continue to support him now likely are.
Very simple.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)
ecstatic
(32,648 posts)Anyone who still supports trump is unwinnable.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,864 posts)could have ever voted for Trump.
treestar
(82,383 posts)is this provable? Where is the poll?
Anyone who thinks that shallowly should be easy to manipulate into voting D again. Or could it be they were too misogynistic and that could be the explanation?
If they think merely changing will help, they should vote D in 2020 after no change from the 4 years of the Twitler.
FSogol
(45,446 posts)
The Polack MSgt
(13,182 posts)Because voting for racist policies is a racist act and committing racist acts by definition makes you A FUCKING RACIST.
Stop trying to sugar coat what these fucks are.
"Republicans who voted for Trump did so because he was their nominee, so they did it. They aren't racist" Oh my word, wow...
You couldn't have possibly said this out loud with a straight face. You shouldn't type a lie this obvious either.
Have you never heard of the Southern Strategy, Cadillac Driving Welfare Queens, Willie Horton, FFS were you in a coma from 2008 until a month ago?
Since Johnson signed the civil rights and voting rights acts in the mid 60s, when exactly has the Republican candidate been the LESS racist choice?
I grew up in Washington County, coal mine country, PA 18. It is the most racist place I've ever been, and I spent a lot of time in Mississippi Georgia Texas and Louisiana. That's why the Cheeto Chancre won in a landslide.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... dive in on BOTH sides of divisive issues to harden the categories and turn our democracy into a collection of walled in Balkan states.
The Polack MSgt
(13,182 posts)Call out a Racist - or really just say any uncomfortable truth to white conservatives - AND YOU ARE THE PROBLEM! Can't you see that? YOU'RE HELPING RUSSIA BY TELLING THE TRUTH!!1!11!!1!111!!!
GTF Outta here with that nonsense.
Sack fondling those shit heads and doing a soft shoe dance around how fucking hateful they are will not do a damn thing to "Bring us together".
They don't want to govern together - They hate us (white liberals) as enablers of "Cultural Suicide" and "White Genocide" they hate minorities as "Mud People" Gays, non-Christians, and any one else that is not exactly like them are enemies.
They will never agree with anything we say until we only say the same things they do.
The Urge to reach out and embrace those that hate you is a poor survival instinct and I will not participate.
They hate me. They hate my family, my friends and everyone who believes what I do. They have made that crystal clear and I HATE THEM BACK.
It is not the Trumpster Trash we need to reach. It is the 30ish% who have not participated in the process who believe that "BOTH SIDES " are the same.
We need to be solidly opposed to the Trump party. The folks who want to be racist fuck knuckles will join the GOP anyway.
What we need is for the non GOP portion of these disconnected voters to see us as a true alternative.
brer cat
(24,523 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)
whathehell
(29,034 posts)those issues aren't at the top of everyone's list of concerns...
When your job gets sent overseas and you have no money, THAT iwill be your major concern.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Jews, gays, communists, religious dissidents, and the Romani weren't at the top of the list of concerns of Hitler's supporters either.
When my neighbor hurts I hurt. Their well being isn't subordinate to mine and my well being isn't subordinate to their well being.
Anybody who knowingly voted for a racist, an anti-semite, an Islamophobe, a nativist, et cetera, regardless of their motivations, is an awful person. It is the beginning of the end.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)You cannot compare Nazi Germany in the 1930's to 2016 America. They are simply NOT the same -- They're not even close.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)Anybody who knowingly votes for a racist, xenophobic, nativist, sexist, anti-semitic, Islamophobic, bigot is unworthy of my sympathy. I will reserve it for those deserving of it.
The other day two undocumented workers looking for farming jobs were killed in a car accident as they were fleeing ICE agents:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/us/couple-killed-fleeing-ice/index.html
They left six children.
The six children get my sympathy , not the people who voted for the man who sicced ICE on them.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.…
whathehell
(29,034 posts)Flawed, imperfect, yes.. "Evil"?..Not so much.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Or someone who sees those transgression as virtues.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)but "evil" is an extreme and whether or not most Trump voters are even
familiar with that bible passage, I don't think most viewed him that way.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)familiar with that bible passage, I don't think most viewed him that way.
I am fairly confident his evangelical supporters are familiar with that passage. To their eternal shame they ignored it to support Trump. Trump is evil. Is he Hitler level evil ? Probably not. Mob moss level evil ? I would argue indubitably.
If his voters weren't aware his moral compass was broken they should have been. For his voters who were truly ignorant of his evil ways they have my compassion. They can be saved.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)I just don't know what percentage of the vote they comprised.
ck4829
(35,038 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2018, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)
But really only if one ignores the whole thing with them waving Nazi flags, acting like "good national security" means "Sure there's a mass shooter, but at least he is white, so win", having people in their base who consider "The Purge" or "Punishment Park" to be how-to videos, having rallies where the organizer says he can't wait for the "liberal genocide" to begin, etc.
Why would they wave Nazi flags or endorse genocide if "good Americans" in 2016 and "good Germans" in the 1930's can't be compared?
whathehell
(29,034 posts)Who's "waving Nazi flags and endorsing genocide"?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Not exactly the Dust Bowl. But please, carry on apologizing for Trump voters. It's amusing.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)but we're experiencing the widest disparity if income in decades, so clearly "the economy" isn't benefiting everyone, but please, carry on mistaking facts for apology.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)yet his approval with working class whites remains well north of 80%.
Good thing Trump is so racist...err...I mean "charismatic". His support would be far more anemic without that.
whathehell
(29,034 posts)that his approval with working class whites "remains well north of 80 percent'" is simply false.
Please check the links below...They show Trump's approval among working class whites to be, at best, about 53 percent, not "well north" of 80 percent.
http://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-approval-ratings-take-another-hit-693657
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/trump-approval-rating-2018-midterms/552701/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/poll-shows-trump-sliding-among-white-working-class-voters-1509735858
John Fante
(3,479 posts)His approval rating among party voters is over 80%.
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)I agree that calling racists, racists, won't get them to vote for you.
People of good conscience do not vote for racists. Trump's racism was not hidden.
I care about my country and the welfare of all my fellow citizens and fellow residents, in general.
Do Trump voters deserve access to health care ?
I believe they do.
Do Trump voters deserve to earn a living wage ?
I believe they do.
Do Trump voters deserve the full protections of the constitution ?
I believe they do.
Do I like or respect Trump voters, in general ?
No I don't.
I have no problem with Trump voters voting for democrats. I hope they do. I hope they rub shoulders with democrats.
I hope they listen to democrats.
Most of all , I hope they learn from democrats. They could use an education.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I don’t want them anywhere near me until they change.
MountCleaners
(1,148 posts)If you repeat it enough times, they get really hurt, and that kind of stirring up of emotions can provoke reflection. There is no excuse for supporting a candidate who is applauded by the far right. The more the facts are thrown in their faces, the more they might have to think about their own attitudes, and how they were probably the same people who were used racial slurs and stereotypes in the past and are just defensive and in denial about it now. They will be forced to remember when they got angry because "minorities" were moving into their neighborhoods and going to their schools.
Reading their posts on Facebook, this is very much the type of person who voted for Trump. I work with a few of these people. They are nice to their POC co-workers to their face, and they think that is enough, but the fact is, they still feel uncomfortable, and that discomfort comes from the fact that they grew up with segregationist attitudes and are invested in "sticking with their own kind."
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)All tactics should be employed including shaming. I'm a big believer in the trial and error approach.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)The vast majority of whites inherently harbor some prejudices. i am realistic enough regarding anthropology and psychology to include myself in that group though I detest racism and prejudice and have fought against it all my adult life. While I never for a day believed that whites were better than blacks, for example, I had a lesser comfort level around non whites than I did around the people who surrounded me every day in my youth, and they were all white. There was only one black boy in my high school. I liked him fine but had little to do with him.
Racism runs much deeper than a literal belief in white superiority, or in white nationalism either I was able to get at and disarm most of my latent prejudices when I got past high school and began having more interactions with a wider circle of people in the larger world.. In my working vocabulary I make a distinction between racism and prejudice, both are deplorable but should be dealt with differently.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I’ve heard it all from Trump supporters and none of it is good enough for me. They voted for an idiot and chaos has rained down on my life because of it. It’s very personal. I was smart enough to see Trump for who he is and I will not hold Trump voters to a lesser standard. They voted for him because they wanted to hate Hillary, or strong women in general.
I am still as angry today as I was the night of the election that was stolen from us and I don’t intend to lose that anger until that moron us out of the White House. If that’s a problem for anyone, tough cookies. I hate him THAT much. The
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)I won't give them a pass. Not now, not ever.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I worry about carrying around all of this anger. It’s not healthy, but it IS a great motivator.
Javaman
(62,500 posts)fuck them.
they are fucking enablers.
goodbye.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)
Sid
dalton99a
(81,392 posts)
Cha
(296,821 posts)If they are still for trump after all this time.. they damn well sure are bigoted racists.
Thank you, Sid and Rude!
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... of our democracy into walled off enclaves.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)to attract Trump voters and to convince us that all Trump voters aren’t bad people on reaching out to the marginalized people in our own Democratic base, encouraging better turnout, fighting voter ID laws, helping minority voters get the IDs they need to vote, pushing Democratic candidates to address the concerns of black and brown voters and teaching your friends that reaching out to minorities isn’t “identity politics,” we wouldn't need to chase after clueless Trump voters - we’d have more than enough support to take both houses back and create a lantern blue wave.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)rockfordfile
(8,695 posts)I think that many are racists. Then maybe some are not racist. All are idiots.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)Also, I don’t think “racist” means what you think it means.
LexVegas
(6,026 posts) Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I drive from Miami to Las Vegas and back twice per year. Plus an annual trip up the east coast. Often I'll detour off the freeway for an hour or several.
So many main streets are shuttered and falling apart. Painful sights. I'm shocked when I come across one that looks okay.
People in those areas are prone to be suckered by a bullshit artist. Trump talked about job loss in Ohio in every debate. He may have specified Ohio but every rural area clutched the words as their own.
Obama left office with a huge chunk of the populous desperate for change. It was blatant in every pre-election poll and all the exit polls and post election polls. The bullshit artist was enabled by the right track/wrong track relationship being so lopsidedly negative, whether it made any sense to us or not.
Despite being elected twice by decent margin, I think we want to deny or forget that Obama's average approval rating as measured by Gallup was only 47.9%. And that translated into the share of the popular vote that Hillary received.
romana
(765 posts)At the very least, they were OK with voting for a vocal racist and misogynist, and we get to judge them and hold them accountable for that.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)Racist vs Racist Adjacent doesn't make much difference to me.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)
Sid
samnsara
(17,604 posts)GaryCnf
(1,399 posts)That the ONLY reason a Republican-leaning voter would vote against our Democratic candidate is because they are a racist or a misogynist?
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)that, but no.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)LAS14
(13,769 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)LAS14
(13,769 posts)....conflicted about who we vote for. Funny. I've heard people interviewed on TV who voted for Trump who were troubled by his character but felt the conservative issues outweighed this. If we don't allow for this possibility we build walls between us that will ultimately destroy our democracy. That's why the Russians spend time and money supporting both sides of divisive issues.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)those things a many more showed us what a putrid human being he was. They still voted for him. they STILL support him.
His character showed us what kind of president he would be. I remember during the campaign this woman telling a guy how she feared for the LGBT community if trump won. His reply? "All I care about is getting my tax cut".
In my opinion, those people are unreachable. But you obviously feel differently. Please tell me what we need to do to reach them.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... all of them to "fuck them" instead of hearing what each individual has to say, we'll have a society so torn apart by hate that we can't move forward.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)morals", "We need to restore our nation's values", "They want to take away our guns", "They are for the gays" "They are for the Muslims" "They are for the Mexicans", "All I care is about the tax cuts" "We finally have a classy, beautiful first lady" "trump is not a politician" "He took away Meals-on-Wheels. I need it, but I will vote for him again because of the illegals", Democrats don't believe in God" "Build the wall, bill the wall, build the wall BILL THE WALL!!!".
Yes, I've heard them...so?
LAS14
(13,769 posts).... to lump all Trump voters together. That's lazy thinking and destructive of democracy.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)LAS14
(13,769 posts)... lump everyone together and discard them. To allow that there are TWO baskets. And we don't know which person belongs in which basket until we hear their story.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)personally affected by this.
And you have already said they are unreachable, so what's the point?
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Not to mention the millions more who lean left but don't vote. To say nothing of the people being harmed by the destructive policies of this administration. I want to hear what they have to say.
Trump voter stories? Ain't got time for that.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Becaue I think that if you were any of these things, you would see this very differently and would likely believe that presenting a clear threat to your very being is a dealbreaker, regardless where he stood on any other issues, and choosing between him and someone who does not represent such a threat presents no conflict at all.
Some people understand this even if they are not in direct danger themselves - it’s called “empathy” - but such understanding is still in far too short a supply in politics.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... TV interviews who exhibit considerably more complex thinking than you attribute to all of them.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)attribute "complex thinking" to minorities? Seriously?
As for this Latina...I have no words. What do you consider "complex thinking"? Would it be something like "Oh, I may get deported and separated from my kids any day, but I must try to understand the people who voted for this...they aren't all bad"
Or "I saw another father being snatched by ICE while taking his children to school. The kids were screaming in terror, but this is a complex issue, and I will not rush to judgment."
Seriously?
Wow, just wow. Must be nice to not live in fear, to look things from afar and engage in "complex thinking" about matters which won't affect you.
Yes, it must be nice to live with such privilege.
ismnotwasm
(41,965 posts)Anything else is just window dressing in comparison, yes including economic angst.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Almost just as bad.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)I suspect the main reason for such a switch was sexism. In some cases, it could also be stupidity - seeing a stupid narcissist who inherited his fortune, and still drove several businesses to bankruptcy, as somehow being likely to help the struggling working class. And ignoring his misogyny, racism, and ties to organised crime. And then the links to Russia.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)pwb
(11,246 posts)
MFM008
(19,803 posts)They may not be sexist.
They ARE fucking morons.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)I do care that they vote just like the people who do. I can't see into the hearts of voters. But I do know that their votes look exactly like the votes of the racists and sexists.
In our system our votes don't give us the option to have an asterisk reading "*I'm voting with the racists for the racist but I'M not a racist so count my vote but don't blame me for it."
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)and they should seriously consider why they support a POTUS that bolsters and gives credibility to white supremacists.
I wouldn't take the time to try and convert them, if they are inclined to be truly repulsed by the rampant racism that is being nurtured but Trump and the Republican Party, they know exactly what they should be doing and where they could be going to remove that cancer..
TrishaJ
(797 posts)for Trump. They did it because they believed all the horse crap the GOP slung on Hillary Clinton for the last 30 years.
BENGHAZI!! HER EMAILS!!
herding cats
(19,558 posts)They’re the types willing to sell out and hurt others not like them for what they think will be their own personal gain. They’re also not too bright if they thought Trump cared about them and their overall well-being.
That’s as gracious as I can be toward them and that took some serious stretching of my raw feelings.
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)There is probably a segment of anti-Clinton voters that were happy to vote for Obama in 2008 primary.
BoneyardDem
(1,202 posts)...an come back to peddle this on going shit, quite frequently.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2018, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)
Trump MAGA hats seen at the nazi/KKK rally in Charlottesville: 2:19...5:03...5:06...6:03...6:28...8:58...all on nazi/KKK heads.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)My concern is not that we be nice to Trump voters. It's that we preserve our own ability to think clearly, to not jump to knee-jerk hatred. Remember! The Russians and their bots dive in on BOTH sides of divisive issues. Balkanizing our society lets them win!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)There is no excuse for supporting a race hater like Trump, none!
Hitler promised the German people full employment like the good old days. MGGA instead of MAGA so they voted him in. 8 million Jewish men, women and children died in gas chambers or a bullet in the head for that vote and many millions more in Nazi invaded countries.
Was full employment worth it to the German people in the end!?
There is a line that can never be crossed and every person that voted for that lying fascist bastard Trump jumped over it bigtime IMO.
LAS14
(13,769 posts)... have made. I'm only talking about judging their motivation. And the point is not concern for the Trump voter. It's concern for our own ability to think clearly and not play into the hands of the Russians who are trying to divide us.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)People might start to wonder ...
ck4829
(35,038 posts)Putin and his gang of looters and murderers are bad no doubt and they have a lot to answer for, but they aren't making right wingers say statues matter more than black lives, Russians aren't making them say we were good "Before the civil war even though there might have been 'some' slavery" and I don't think Russians forced people into almost voting the man who said this into the Senate, Russians didn't force them to enter Mosques at gunpoint and trash them, Tony Perkins and other leaders of the Christian Right don't speak with Russian accents as they dehumanize and demonize our GLBTQ Americans, Russians didn't blow scopolamine into their faces so they would attack Obama for wearing a tan suit but give Trump a pass on every scandal, and I'm pretty sure there were no Russians at the rally where the guy said he couldn't wait for the "liberal genocide to begin". That was all our right wingers, baby.
If you want to look at balkanization, look at them. I'm white and have an eclectic religion... but I've recently included a Somali-American Muslim woman in my extended family. Sounds like the complete opposite of balkanization to me. I fight for her, not for people who question her patriotism or her civil or even human rights.
John Fante
(3,479 posts) workinclasszero
(28,270 posts) 
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)after voting for Obama. These were reliable GOP voters who voted for W twice and then switched to Obama because of the financial crisis.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Hillary got more votes than Obama did in 2012 but slightly less than he got in 2008.
It's not like a ton of Obama voters went to Trump and this is why Trump won.
Trump won because beyond the traditional Republican base, he energized the most racist and xenophobic elements of the far right.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)haele
(12,640 posts)Just ask your "independent" who voted for Obama. Some were voting for Biden and the black dude that just white enough they could handle it, even the second time. But to continue on supporting a political party that nominated an angry old "bee-otch" who got into politics riding her husband's coat tails, no way.
And yes, a few Republicans voted for Drumpf because they always voted "party", even if it was Republican Pond Scum.
But when you ask them, most crossover Dem to 'Pub voters did so because not only was the media was giving him close to a billion dollars of entertaining Drumpf screen time they couldn't avoid and the constant drumbeat of crooked Hillary Clinton, but because there was those uncomfortable BLM and Antifa riots that had just been going on with the Federal Government seeming to not be interested in defending the "responsible white folk" - tarring them with the same brush as KKK or fascists. And that was just one last betrayal that they were sure Clinton would continue, it would be like under Slick Willy, but this time, it would be Hitlery, a castrating harpy who wanted to be Queen. Why couldn't they have run Biden or even Sanders? Maybe O'Malley. They all seemed like comfortable guys.
Besides, as all the media said - Drumpf was going to shake things up, fire the old guard and get some new people in... It would be like Reagan, and things weren't too bad under Reagan...as far as they could remember.
That's the excuse they give me. They may think he's a crazy fool now, but when they voted, it was against BLM and Hillary. Race and Sex.
(on edit - Everything negative about HRC in the post comes from what had been told to me by crossover to Drumpf voters, not my opinion or any inference about her on my part.)
Haele
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)John Fante
(3,479 posts)staged walkouts to protest, to have their voices heard...
...and I'm supposed to care about sparing the feewings of fucking Trump voters? FUCK THEM.
billh58
(6,635 posts)support for racism, bigotry, and ignorance.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)It would have died the second he uttered, "I like people (soldiers) who weren't captured."
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Is there a significant difference between that and being racist oneself? It's hard for me to see it.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)[IMG]
[/IMG]
still_one
(92,061 posts)
eShirl
(18,479 posts)A: an enabler of racism
underpants
(182,603 posts)Let’s not forgot the massive voter suppression
heaven05
(18,124 posts)voters for the POS masquerading as potus enabled a racist, vile, sexist, bigot to be their president. He was proven a racist even as far back as the 70's when he forbade his property agents to rent to AA and I would venture to guess that while some of them might not go to a WHITE SUPREMACIST rally most have sympathy for the white supremacists ideology now being touted as the salvation of the white race, who ARE fading in this country into a racial minority status.
I understand that this knowledge strikes fear into the hearts of many a racists and stealth voters for trump. And I don't blame those people who see their racial entitlement and their racially privileged status slowly fading into a permanent sunset, never to rise again.
I venture to guess this fact of demographic change won't be relinquished cleanly given what I have seen trump unleash in this country in the form of hate, discrimination, prejudice, white ethnocentrism and I could go on and on. With this country's AG being one of those fearful minions of trump, I feel this ONGOING shift in racial and cultural demographics will continue no matter how many are deported or killed by white supremacy advocates who are local and national agents of the state, both civilian and police.
I understand why this type of OP must be trotted out periodically. Some rationale about needing to have 'bluedog' Democrats voted into offices of national and local government to keep repthugliKKKans out. No!!!!! Not good enough a reason to saddle minorities with more DINO'S.
Democrats had the numbers in 2016 and with the continuing revelation of vote tampering HRC should be our POTUS now.
I disagree with your position totally and without equivocation on your need for more moderate to conservative Democrats. Liberals and progressives out number that group by millions and without having a racist bone in their bodies. They are who I would trust to lead a Democratic nationa re-emergence. While Lamb's winning goes into the plus column, I will withhold opinion until I see how he votes.
I always chuckle and shake my head at the need to trot out this OP line of reasoning.
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)
Ferrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)then they are intentionally blind. And that is just as bad as any other "bad" word we could call them. I hate them all for what they have done to us.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)In my mind that's even more deplorable.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)ck4829
(35,038 posts)I want a government that doesn't see me (Because I'm a *gasp* self-professed liberal) or the young Somali-American Muslim woman in my extended family as potential enemies of the state. I want a government that doesn't have people in it who think medically vulnerable people like my nephew aren't worth helping. Is that "local" enough? Is that "bread and butter" enough? Or am I just some coastal leftist elite who lives paycheck to paycheck and who just happens to live in the middle of Ohio?
As for Trump supporters...
Do they see something wrong when a person says that "All Lives Matter" but then shrugs and turns away when a refugee needs help?
How many mosques have they walked into and talked with the people there? What do they do when they are confronted with the "radical notion" that Muslims are people just like them?
When someone says gay and/or transgendered people are "deviant" or "sick", do they speak up in disagreement?
When people who look like them and believe like them are in their company and they call people who look different and believe differently lazy who don't deserve government assistance but that actually they earned their government assistance for some reason or another, do they stand up and call that wrong?
Those questions reflect the distorted ideas that helped Trump get into office, there simply can not be a rejection of Trump until there is a rejection of those distorted ideas. If they reject them, then welcome aboard. If they don't, well, it would be foolish to enable them.
Gothmog
(144,919 posts)TheSmarterDog
(794 posts)But I'm sure some of their best friends are ...
Initech
(100,036 posts)But all racists voted for Trump. He speaks their language and appears on their shows.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Again, they saw Trump rile up his psychotic mobs to attack minorities and protesters. They saw him attack a Gold Star family for being Muslim, and disagreeing with him. They saw his hot mike moment with him bragging about sexually violating women.
And they voted for him anyway.
Fuck Trump, and fuck everyone that voted for him.
