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boston bean

(36,186 posts)
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 07:59 PM Mar 2018

Are you going to vote for the democrat if they

aren’t child abusers, wife beaters, russian plants, sexists, racists, homphobes, xenophobic or anti semitic?

If you are, then you are good in my book.

If you are going to tear democrats down because you think they must support free college and and medicare for all to get your vote, get lost and you aint ok by me.

Excuse me while I do everything in my power to make sure we don’t become a real OLIGARCHY controlled by russian plutocrats.

Once we defeat the evil on our doorstep I’ll entertain your demands. Because if we don’t get control back right quick this November, kiss this country good bye. We are in a fight for democracy.

169 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Are you going to vote for the democrat if they (Original Post) boston bean Mar 2018 OP
I stand with you and agree with you, my dear boston bean. CaliforniaPeggy Mar 2018 #1
As do I. brush Mar 2018 #60
So where do we draw the line? Is there a line anymore? LiberalLovinLug Mar 2018 #147
We have to win...so we can stop them...the house is on fire..and if the country is center left is Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #150
I applaud your enthusiasm LiberalLovinLug Mar 2018 #160
Sure we can. We did it during Dean's 50 state strategy. We put progressives in everywhere Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #164
Lets do it! LiberalLovinLug Mar 2018 #167
I love discussions also called disagreements! You are good to talk to...if we all agreed how boring, Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #168
Amen to that! Paka Mar 2018 #158
Thanks! LiberalLovinLug Mar 2018 #161
I detest ideas like FREE TUITION! Skittles Mar 2018 #2
Exactly, well said. CatMor Mar 2018 #4
I taught college for a long time. GeorgeHayduke Mar 2018 #21
Alan Bennett on tutition costs. Twelve effing years ago: GoneOffShore Mar 2018 #41
That's what I mean. GeorgeHayduke Mar 2018 #84
Free tution is a totally BS idea! ProudLib72 Mar 2018 #25
So, you guys saying you won't vote for the Democrat if they advocate free tuition...? regnaD kciN Mar 2018 #27
Arrrrrgghhhhh! ProudLib72 Mar 2018 #30
love the ridiculous conclusions the swooners come to Skittles Mar 2018 #90
I happen to believe we can have higher education with little to no cost for the student Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #152
yes, WE KNOW THAT Skittles Mar 2018 #153
I wasnt arguing with you, at all. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #154
No, they will vote for the Democrat period...we always do. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #52
Somehow many European countries, ranked higher than US in quality of life, manage to do it. brush Mar 2018 #65
My post was meant to be a tongue in cheek pun, but it came across as too harsh ProudLib72 Mar 2018 #86
Did you post that when Obama said Community College should be free? former9thward Mar 2018 #47
Why argue about something that is never going to happen. Hillary Clinton want community colleges Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #54
I work for a Chicago non-profit. former9thward Mar 2018 #116
Really...is this a state program...my niece is at lose ends and she hates office work... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #142
No, it is a federal program. former9thward Mar 2018 #143
She is in Georgia...Thanks for the information. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #149
Actually, we already have free tuition. WinstonSmith4740 Mar 2018 #118
That's not true. All Scandinavian countries have free 1-12 grade too. (Grade 13 in Norway.) KitSileya Mar 2018 #137
Like I said... WinstonSmith4740 Mar 2018 #151
It was the "if not the only country" that I had a problem with. KitSileya Mar 2018 #162
+1 betsuni Mar 2018 #163
France does the same. Paka Mar 2018 #159
I agree. This is an EMERGENCY. skylucy Mar 2018 #3
I will vote for the Dem. Period. End of message. Fin. Carriage-Return/Line-Feed. Binkie The Clown Mar 2018 #5
nnnn Sinistrous Mar 2018 #61
I could have said "Word Mark, Record Mark", and you'd need to know ancient computing machines Binkie The Clown Mar 2018 #81
I am old. I got it. Stonepounder Mar 2018 #119
Me too. Got my first programming job in 1965 on an IBM 1440... Binkie The Clown Mar 2018 #125
Funny, my Son was discussing punch cards the other day True Blue American Mar 2018 #139
I'm sort of old and I got it stopwastingmymoney Mar 2018 #123
Join the crowd True Blue American Mar 2018 #145
Hell, I'd vote for Satan if he was running as a Democrat over any Rethug opponent. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2018 #88
We agree on the important things...I would too! Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #93
And some folks wont. Too bad too, because our lives are at stake. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #155
Eyes on the prize: getting rid of Trump---and unless you're a communist, Atticus Mar 2018 #6
"... free college and and medicare" left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #7
No. Is this your veiled defense of a non existent argument implied? boston bean Mar 2018 #8
You screwed up the 'syntax' left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #18
What can I say? Except I am a very synful person. boston bean Mar 2018 #99
Bernie? DownriverDem Mar 2018 #22
Yes but no melman Mar 2018 #29
Got that right! The Berniephobes here have jumped the shark. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2018 #87
Good god, get over it already. Not everyone thinks of Bernie in every context. BoneyardDem Mar 2018 #113
Well it obviously is melman Mar 2018 #114
I suppose many are entitled to be perpetually outraged that Bernie isn't POTUS BoneyardDem Mar 2018 #117
Whatever you say chief melman Mar 2018 #121
Is that some sort or "Pocohantas" jab? BoneyardDem Mar 2018 #148
2016 is gone! True Blue American Mar 2018 #146
Not a Democrat True Blue American Mar 2018 #140
Nobody mentioned Bernie NastyRiffraff Mar 2018 #59
Apparently not left-of-center2012 Mar 2018 #74
Poor, poor, Saint Bernard NastyRiffraff Mar 2018 #115
And here I thought I was done putting people on ignore after the primaries. mac56 Mar 2018 #132
My line in the sand, though, is choice. Any D who is not going to roll back choice gets my vote. Squinch Mar 2018 #9
There are no such Democrats...being personally opposed to abortion but agreeing a woman has the Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #57
Yes, I have no problem with pro choice candidates who are personally opposed. Squinch Mar 2018 #96
The 20 week thing is the law in states I have lived in too...except for the death of fetus Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #98
I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience. Squinch Mar 2018 #100
It was horrible. I very angry for sometime, but I had to let it go. I do believe in God Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #101
I'm partial to RW Emerson's "oversoul" concept, which also says we are all connected. Squinch Mar 2018 #102
I forgot about that...we read Emerson in college but I read trash mostly these days for fun. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #104
Would you vote for a pro choice rethug hueymahl Mar 2018 #64
I would have to take a look at their other positions, Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #69
I would not vote for that office in such an unlikely case. I cannot actively hand others Squinch Mar 2018 #97
It depends on the totality of their stand Jake Stern Mar 2018 #138
I'm with ya all the way Hayduke Bomgarte Mar 2018 #10
At this point in time... NCTraveler Mar 2018 #11
We are facing actual fascists in the thrall of a foreign enemy. TheSmarterDog Mar 2018 #12
I'll vote for the most progressive Dem in the primary, and for the primary winner in the general. Iggo Mar 2018 #13
What Primaries are for DownriverDem Mar 2018 #20
Exactly. nt Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #50
Since Bush II I've been a ham sandwich Democrat catrose Mar 2018 #14
My cat would make a far better president than any Republican. yardwork Mar 2018 #55
Cats in general have more morals. catrose Mar 2018 #75
Vote for the Democat crazycatlady Mar 2018 #109
Me too...my cat would be a better president than Trump. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #58
Cats at least are good cats catrose Mar 2018 #77
So true. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #103
Nixon for Me ProfessorGAC Mar 2018 #108
I must be getting old . . . Sam McGee Mar 2018 #15
Thom Hartmann will occasionally play exerts from FDR speeches and he was far too world wide wally Mar 2018 #34
I don't agree that FDR couldn't be elected today. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #42
I hope you're right! world wide wally Mar 2018 #45
I'm with you! We need a new New Deal, and we must get rid of PatrickforO Mar 2018 #39
Yellerdawg with ya here. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #40
Totally with you DownriverDem Mar 2018 #16
I vote for the Democrat regardless crazycatlady Mar 2018 #17
Oooh, I should have done that! Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #83
or how about writing in a local democrat who is in a local office, like city council demigoddess Mar 2018 #130
I only had to do it once crazycatlady Mar 2018 #136
Well, I live in Santa Cruz reggaehead Mar 2018 #19
I loathe the repugs! Mountain Mule Mar 2018 #23
We can fight each other AFTER we slam the brakes annabanana Mar 2018 #24
I will vote for the Dem bluestarone Mar 2018 #26
Do I understand you correctly that you aren't ok with voting for... aikoaiko Mar 2018 #28
Are you okay with voting for any one of those things? MrsCoffee Mar 2018 #107
You're too late. We are already a real American Oligarchy controlled by democratisphere Mar 2018 #31
True dat. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #82
"I'll entertain your demands" melman Mar 2018 #32
I don't get it the OP Lordquinton Mar 2018 #134
word of warning Hermit-The-Prog Mar 2018 #33
Thank you! NurseJackie Mar 2018 #35
I don't like Sarandon or Stein either. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #44
Definitely voting for each and every dem on the ticket. lkinwi Mar 2018 #36
In the general, no question. nt Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #53
Well, yes, at this point, we must vote in Dems and flip both Houses. PatrickforO Mar 2018 #37
Well. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #38
I support your frustration. We need to be careful about stated dissent at forums like DU mjvpi Mar 2018 #43
Hear, hear! Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #46
No sitting Democrats should be primaried while Trump is in the office....if we don't get the GOP Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #51
Sitting, maybe not. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #56
I have no person in mind...I just think it is a waste of time and money when the house is on fire... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #62
Electability too, no doubt. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #66
Thanks for that. I don't like Lipinski...but I would hate to lose the seat...of course isn't the Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #67
Oh dear god. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #71
I get it. Lipinski is a crappy candidate always was. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #106
The GOP ran a fucking CHILD MOLESTER and supported him down the line... FreepFryer Mar 2018 #48
We done...Rec...you are correct. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #49
Vote like your life depends on it........nt Heartstrings Mar 2018 #63
New Democratic Party media slogan: Crash2Parties Mar 2018 #68
Me too, but Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #73
That's the troubling part Lordquinton Mar 2018 #135
Visualizing a Congress under the control of Democrats. oasis Mar 2018 #70
The late great progressive, Doris "Granny D" Haddock. . . DinahMoeHum Mar 2018 #72
Yep. nt Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #76
Hell yes!! MaryMagdaline Mar 2018 #78
Post removed Post removed Mar 2018 #79
Hear, hear. Susan Calvin Mar 2018 #80
How do you know Sanders accepted no corporate donations? He won't release his tax returns. yardwork Mar 2018 #91
Voting for an Independent regardless of his name means we lose period so Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #94
Bernie is more progressive than many of the Democrats. Bluepinky Mar 2018 #124
Who said anything about turning away his supporters? MrsCoffee Mar 2018 #126
He is not a Democrat and voting for him in a general for the presidency...would cause a loss for Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #141
Would you vote for Sanders for President if he ran as an Independent? MrsCoffee Mar 2018 #129
One votes for a Democrat, not Liberal In Texas Mar 2018 #85
They must be gluten-free! Basic LA Mar 2018 #89
Since I am a celiac and cannot eat gluten filled goodies...I would like to announce my candidacy. Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #95
I will always vote for the Democrat, no matter what. smirkymonkey Mar 2018 #92
If they are not named Trump I will vote for any Democrat. That's my test. dameatball Mar 2018 #105
Of course I will Progressive dog Mar 2018 #110
Yeah this is a vote for survival this fall workinclasszero Mar 2018 #111
Yes! This is the kind of stick-to-it attitude we need, not R B Garr Mar 2018 #112
Kick and Reced! ehrnst Mar 2018 #120
I'll vote for a Democrat with Cloven Hooves, Horns and a Pitchfork... errant boy Mar 2018 #122
I always vote for the Democrat. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2018 #127
agree totally. Sometimes you have to vote for the BETTER candidate demigoddess Mar 2018 #128
I agree with OP Gothmog Mar 2018 #131
K & R SunSeeker Mar 2018 #133
Perhaps the purists are after Lipinski because he is anti-abortion too. David__77 Mar 2018 #144
You are obviously trying to bash Bernie Sanders garybeck Mar 2018 #156
I'm with you 100% Boston, We only have about 30 months to save our democracy njhoneybadger Mar 2018 #157
The answer, as always, is it depends. alarimer Mar 2018 #165
This is not for the sake of being a team player. boston bean Mar 2018 #166
Principles still matter, though. alarimer Mar 2018 #169

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,296 posts)
1. I stand with you and agree with you, my dear boston bean.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 08:04 PM
Mar 2018

We are in a fight for democracy and our nation's life.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
147. So where do we draw the line? Is there a line anymore?
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:37 PM
Mar 2018

So we run candidates in the red and purple states that assure their Fox News brainwashed constituents that NO we will not advocate for sensible gun laws, NO we will not support women's reproductive rights, NO we will not oppose the tax giveaway bill, etc....

Do we have our own positions anymore? Or do we just waltz in and mimic our Republican condender's platform. Hoping that voters will see our candidates as the least of the two evils for Democrats, and hopefully enough independents and Republicans will choose our candidate too because they are nicer and seem like a good egg.

This is the most cowardly way forward. I think some in here underestimate the ability of the electorate to leap forward in their thinking, if issues like 'medicare-for-all" are presented properly, and also championed as possible. No one is going to get behind something where even the "liberal" party is cool about the idea. And even runs candidates that bad mouth it, and other progressive initiatives.

Sorry to bring up Sanders, but he proved, just by his popularity, that progressive policies CAN be appreciated and supported by the majority. In fact as studies have shown for decades, most Americans if pressed on individual issues are inherently liberal. It just takes someone to say....yes, now lets do it!

If the Democratic party cannot separate itself with bold progressive goals, and its only goals are to get as close to their Republican competitor and adopt the same defeatest language as they do on these issues we may win a couple more seats,( with reps that will vote with the Republicans on critical issues) but in the end we will lose more than we gain. Because we are saying we have no mandate. No real principles. Our only visible actions in these ridings is to be as close as we can to our Republican contender, without having to grovel to the most racist, primitive and deplorable of them, who would never vote Democrat anyways.

I think this kind of blatant pandering for votes is cowardly and will keep America dragging its sorry ass around behind every other western democracy in regards to advancing progressive policies like maternity leave, livable minimum wages, affordable education and medical services. This kind of weakness and grovelling for votes on the bottom of the barrel is not going to win over Americans long, and then we are back to square one. Instead all D candidates should show confidence in new progressive policies. Don't shy away from them and IMO you'd be surprised at peoples respect of that kind of approach and more open ears to what they are proposing.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
150. We have to win...so we can stop them...the house is on fire..and if the country is center left is
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:06 PM
Mar 2018

their a choice? We can work on winning hearts and minds at the grass roots level at the same time...and consider the candidates who won legislature seats in Virginia...some very progressive folks...it is very encouraging. We are going to have to work to fix this...and we really need to come up with our own media somehow. But we can do it...only we have to stop them now anyway we can to prevent the loss of all progressive policy since Roosevelt.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
160. I applaud your enthusiasm
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 09:39 PM
Mar 2018

My point is that we CAN'T really work on winning hearts and minds at the grass roots level AT THE SAME TIME as disappointing the grass roots with mixed signals as to what we stand for and what we don't. And that it all depends on where you live.

I admit we'd lose some especially if the Koch Brothers and other big money targeted ridings where a Democrat dares to agree with a woman's right to choose for instance. BABY KILLER!!!

I just think we are underestimating the potential of gaining seats to counter those losses, in purple ridings where the grass roots of the Democrats, as well as a certain segment of independents, desperately are waiting and looking for Democrats to distance themselves from Republicans in even bolder ways than 'at least we not as bad as they are. And I realize I'm exaggerating there to make a point, and that there are hundreds of reasons why Democrats are different. But why give any quarter to those that exploit those times when we allow DINOs to run and win in ridings, and sometimes even campaigning against and not funding the more progressive candidate. That is ammunition to the Green party and the Sarandons of the world.

It would be nice if Democrats had a 24/7 information network, like the other side does, to push our platform and explain the whys and why nots. Yeah there's MSNBC, but they are beholden to at least attempts to explain both sides views, as every real news network should.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
164. Sure we can. We did it during Dean's 50 state strategy. We put progressives in everywhere
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 07:40 AM
Mar 2018

we can... we make politics local. Look at Virginia where a moderate won the governorship but everyone from progressive to moderates joined in and made it happen...and liberal folks were elected to the legislature including a transgender candidate who ran on roads of all things. I believe everyone wants the same thing in terms of food, shelter, jobs and healthcare...here in Ohio Trump's tax cut is not popular but Medicaid is ...Kasich did expand it. Candidates running on healthcare have a chance even with the gerrymander. Also many here are upset at Trump's Russian ties. A big tent is our only option right now.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
167. Lets do it!
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:13 PM
Mar 2018

I know we've had our disagreements, (and we probably will again) but I think we both want the same thing in the end. Cheers

Go Dems Go!


Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
168. I love discussions also called disagreements! You are good to talk to...if we all agreed how boring,
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 08:01 PM
Mar 2018

but as I have figured out, we have more in common than we think at times. I have reluctantly understood your point more than once, damn you!

Paka

(2,760 posts)
158. Amen to that!
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:37 PM
Mar 2018

Thank you for your excellent post. Voting for the D behind the name and not the person is not a winning strategy.

Skittles

(152,963 posts)
2. I detest ideas like FREE TUITION!
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 08:06 PM
Mar 2018

it feeds into the bullshit that Democrats want free stuff

we want AFFORDABLE tuition, AFFORDABLE healthcare

GoneOffShore

(17,308 posts)
41. Alan Bennett on tutition costs. Twelve effing years ago:
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:50 PM
Mar 2018
"I don't claim to know how higher education should be paid for; all I know is that it's morally wrong to expect students to get into debt. I voted for Labour because of this and feel let down. The party has betrayed itself and it will be viewed by history as a mistake."

GeorgeHayduke

(1,227 posts)
84. That's what I mean.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:08 AM
Mar 2018

FAFSA is an easy way out. I used to espouse upon my students that I earned two undergraduate degrees, paid for a masters and worked through defending two dissertations owing a total of $3,800 in emergency government loans and $273 to my dad for a contract I was invested in.

The collegiate loan paradigm is a sham.

That is to say, I paid for five degrees out-of-pocket without listening to the banks.

I also retired when I was 38 having no spouse, no kids and no debt.

There is no need for students to fall-back on debt for an education.

regnaD kciN

(26,035 posts)
27. So, you guys saying you won't vote for the Democrat if they advocate free tuition...?
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:04 PM
Mar 2018

Pot, meet kettle.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
30. Arrrrrgghhhhh!
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:10 PM
Mar 2018

I do agree with Skittles. Having said that, I would vote for the Dem every time, regardless of stance on tuition.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,096 posts)
152. I happen to believe we can have higher education with little to no cost for the student
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:11 PM
Mar 2018

the way other countries do it and we can do the same for healthcare, but neither of these things matter at the moment.

At the moment this is what matters





If the D candidate which is electable is against AIR, I vote against air. Given one person in the party cant do shit, and the R is always worse. Common sense

or

M A T H

Skittles

(152,963 posts)
153. yes, WE KNOW THAT
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:14 PM
Mar 2018

I doubt the FREE STUFF issue is any kind of VOTE KILLER - I just happen to think it feeds into the notion that Democrats want FREE STUFF - we want AFFORDABLE stuff

Eliot Rosewater

(31,096 posts)
154. I wasnt arguing with you, at all.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:17 PM
Mar 2018

And the point of this discussion to me is there are people out there who WILL draw a line and try and get others to as well.

Kinda like in CA right now, can you believe it but a REPUBLICAN got a prop thru in CA that will ONLY help repubs and progressives trying to unseat sitting powerful democrats

brush

(53,467 posts)
65. Somehow many European countries, ranked higher than US in quality of life, manage to do it.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:18 PM
Mar 2018

I'm not calling for it now as our country is in dire straits with a need to wrest control from the repug, wannabe fascists.

Universal healthcare should be high on our agenda once we accomplish that but free tuition (aka an educated population with knowledge and creativity gained through education which contributes to a sustained, robust economy) should be worked towards.

ProudLib72

(17,984 posts)
86. My post was meant to be a tongue in cheek pun, but it came across as too harsh
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:28 AM
Mar 2018

(and I don't think anyone actually understood). So I'll put it this way: we should work first toward getting free tuition for community colleges that actually works. Too many of my students are on financial aid that gets backed up. I can't tell you how many students don't get their financial aid package in time and get dropped from the system only to be reinstated a month later. It is a logistical nightmare. What I am seeing at my college is a tiny fraction of what totally free tuition would be like if it were applied to all colleges. Also, I truly feel that free tuition for community colleges is the best way to address inequality in access to higher education. As you said, we need to start somewhere, and I think community colleges are the best place. Free tuition for all colleges could be a ten or fifteen year goal. Flawless community college free tuition could be a three or five year goal.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
54. Why argue about something that is never going to happen. Hillary Clinton want community colleges
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:06 PM
Mar 2018

free also. That is different from making college free for all income levels...for private and state schools.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
116. I work for a Chicago non-profit.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 11:06 AM
Mar 2018

We were given a several million dollar grant from the Dept. of Labor to pay for tuition, books and other fees for anyone who wants to go to community colleges that teach courses related to manufacturing. No income limits or age limits. We have difficulty getting people to take advantage of the grant even though they can get a degree (or a shorter term certificate) in a good skill for free.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
142. Really...is this a state program...my niece is at lose ends and she hates office work...
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:18 PM
Mar 2018

How interesting.

former9thward

(31,798 posts)
143. No, it is a federal program.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:27 PM
Mar 2018

America's Promise Grant run by the U.S. Department of Labor. It is nationwide. There were 23 organizations selected nationwide do to the administration of the grant. I don't know who the others are but if your niece is outside of the Chicago area maybe she could contact US DOL in her area and maybe they will be able to guide her to an organization in her area. The grant can be used anywhere in the US.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,048 posts)
118. Actually, we already have free tuition.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:18 PM
Mar 2018

We're one of the only countries (if not THE only country) that guarantees a free education through grade 12. We also guarantee a free education to a Special Needs child through age 22. This kind of thing is an incredible victory, and yet we never hear the Democrats celebrating stuff like this. They just don't seem to be able to hold up their own victories and say "See what we did, and how it has made your life better".

As for being more careful with our semantics, absolutely. "Free" sets us up for the whole "they just want the government to run your life" accusation.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
137. That's not true. All Scandinavian countries have free 1-12 grade too. (Grade 13 in Norway.)
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:42 PM
Mar 2018

In Norway, first through tenth grade is mandatory and free, grade eleven to thirteenth is free and a right, and all years are free to the extent that no students can be asked to pay for excursions, school trips, learning material, or anything else. Grade eleven and twelve may be used to get a vocational education, and the government pays companies to educate apprentices until their journeyman exams. Most plumbers, electricians, child care workers and pharmacy technicians start working at 20 years old without a penny in student loans.

Higher education is mostly free - there's a $100-150 semester fee (I can't remember the exact amount), but most students end up with student loans because they need them to pay for living expenses. You would need a full-time jobs to live off while studying if you're not to end up with any loans, and that's pretty nigh impossible, though most students have part-time jobs to supplement their stipends and loans. The loan institution is governmental, the loan is secured, and you can postpone payment if you are un- or underemployed. If you die, or if you become disabled, the loans are forgiven.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,048 posts)
151. Like I said...
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:08 PM
Mar 2018

One of the only countries. I applaud those countries that have figured out how to educate their kids fully, and provide an education beyond high school without putting the equivalent of a mortgage on their shoulders the day they graduate. And this country's drive to send EVERYONE to college is insane...we definitely need more trade schools, or to just learn to accept that some kids just aren't cut out for it.

From what I understand, most Scandinavian countries also have awesome pre-natal care, parental leave policy, day care, work place policies, and in general, invest in their people. Probably why it's supposed to be a pretty good place to live.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
162. It was the "if not the only country" that I had a problem with.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 01:00 AM
Mar 2018

The US will never be a Scandinavian-type social democratic country. It is too racist for that. LBJ recognized that, even if the alt-left still thinks it's possible if they only work on economic policy. Too many white Americans would rather starve themselves than get help that is also available to Black Americans. The fear many white Americans have of a level playing field makes any kind of investment in people impossible, because people include Black Americans, and racism is strong in too many white Americans. Obviously, this means pretty much every Trump supporter, but also a frighteningly large number of alt-lefties (deliberately?) undermine their arguments for economic equality by refusing to recognize the elephant in the room - racism. They'd get the policies in place and then express surprise and concern when it turns out things like free college benefit whites to an unproportionate degree.

Want to be a true radical? Work for free childcare for all instead. That would be a true transference of wealth from privileged groups to minorities.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
81. I could have said "Word Mark, Record Mark", and you'd need to know ancient computing machines
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:58 PM
Mar 2018

to get that reference.

In computer hardware, a word mark, record mark, or flag is a bit in each memory location on some variable word length computers (e.g., IBM 1401, 1410, 1620) used to mark the end of a word.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
119. I am old. I got it.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:21 PM
Mar 2018

When I took my first computer programming course (in FORTRAN) we had to go to the computer annex and punch our own punch-cards. Then we would turn in our deck and come back the next day for our results of the compile. We got one compile a day.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
125. Me too. Got my first programming job in 1965 on an IBM 1440...
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 01:11 PM
Mar 2018

...the little baby brother of the IBM 1401.

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
139. Funny, my Son was discussing punch cards the other day
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:08 PM
Mar 2018

When we were discussing the changes when he went to College compared to the Grandson in his first year.

I still have trouble wrapping my head around a SD Printer,although I love my IPad.

Democrat, no matter what. Never voted for a Republican.

stopwastingmymoney

(2,027 posts)
123. I'm sort of old and I got it
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:48 PM
Mar 2018

When I first learned to type in, let's see, 1985, we had these brand new fancy typewriters that let you type one line on a tiny screen before printing to the paper.

Super high tech and impressive

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
145. Join the crowd
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:31 PM
Mar 2018


I do remember my first computer course.

Two things stuc,” Watch the screen it will tell you what to do.”And,” 95% of computer problems can be solved by turning the computer off, turning it back on!”

Still true today, Reboot!
 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
113. Good god, get over it already. Not everyone thinks of Bernie in every context.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 10:11 AM
Mar 2018

Never even occurred to me that the op was about Benie until mention as such....and I thoroughly dislike Bernie.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
117. I suppose many are entitled to be perpetually outraged that Bernie isn't POTUS
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:04 PM
Mar 2018

That is what I see on DU on a daily basis. The reality is that the rest of us would like to move on. Bernie supporters seem to have their marching orders to move in a different direction.

 

BoneyardDem

(1,202 posts)
148. Is that some sort or "Pocohantas" jab?
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 05:14 PM
Mar 2018

See how easily someone can get outraged? The question is, should I get enraged, or not? Well of course the answer is "not".

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
146. 2016 is gone!
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:35 PM
Mar 2018

We are now on 2018.

Sherrod Brown was on this morning. He said when he won his first election he talked about it for 3 days,until he realized no one cared.

Making fun of Trump.

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
59. Nobody mentioned Bernie
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:11 PM
Mar 2018

I realize he has to be the center of the universe, but really, can we have a break from the sainted Bernie Sanders?

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
57. There are no such Democrats...being personally opposed to abortion but agreeing a woman has the
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:09 PM
Mar 2018

right to make her own choices is pro-choice too...and if we don't elect Democrats, we will lose Roe V Wade...if one anti-choice candidate got in, and helped us get a majority, we would still be better off than if the Republicans held the majority.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
96. Yes, I have no problem with pro choice candidates who are personally opposed.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:32 AM
Mar 2018

But someone who votes to restrict abortion rights would not get my vote. And yes, there are D's who do that.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
98. The 20 week thing is the law in states I have lived in too...except for the death of fetus
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:49 AM
Mar 2018

and danger to the mother in decent states...Georgia now makes you carry a dead fetus to term...some of them think God will resurrect it. I had a terrible miscarriage in Georgia ...a right to life doctor who left me bleeding to death on a gurney while he waited for test results (hormones which don't always drop right away). Had my husband not come home from his trip in time...I would have died. He found me unconscious and at death's door...screamed his head off and a young resident saved my life...I had massive transfusions and spent three or four weeks in the hospital...aids test for five years and Hep C too...I was left infertile as a result of this. The doctor couldn't even remember my name the next day...he tried to talk about his "principles"...I was still so sick, but I think I called him a murderer and told him to get out and never come back...I don't remember a great deal. I was im maternity and it was horrible; I could hear babies everywhere. My new doctor had me moved out of there.

It is worse now in Georgia. I doubt I would have survived under the current law. A woman's right to choose is important to me...but I think losing the majority endangers us more than a couple of Democrats who are pro-life. They can't bring legislation to the floor without leadership approval. And the president can't appoint judges unless he/she has the Senate these days. I am hoping that we do take the Senate...hard but maybe...and stop Trump from appointing anymore SCOTUS judges...our new reality is in order to get judges, you need the Senate and the presidency. I don't like it, but the Republicans caused it and it can't change now.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
101. It was horrible. I very angry for sometime, but I had to let it go. I do believe in God
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 08:09 AM
Mar 2018

and know that somehow, we remain connected...Thom Hartmann had an interesting idea the other day, he said he believes we are all chopped up in a life/spirit 'mixture' after death and when a baby is born, God ladles up some of the mixture for the baby and that we are all connected.

hueymahl

(2,414 posts)
64. Would you vote for a pro choice rethug
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:18 PM
Mar 2018

Over a prolife dem? Yes, it is an almost impossible hypothetical, but curious how far your commitment goes.

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
69. I would have to take a look at their other positions,
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:25 PM
Mar 2018

And then take a major deduction for choosing to identify as an R.

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
97. I would not vote for that office in such an unlikely case. I cannot actively hand others
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:34 AM
Mar 2018

control over my body.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
138. It depends on the totality of their stand
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:44 PM
Mar 2018

If the hypothetical election was pitting an anti-choice, anti-equality Democrat like Dan Lipinski against a pro-choice, socially liberal Republican like Jim Jeffords then, yes, I would cast my vote for the Republican.


 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
11. At this point in time...
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:13 PM
Mar 2018

I’m even willing to say yes if you add “currently and overtly” to your first sentence.

 

TheSmarterDog

(794 posts)
12. We are facing actual fascists in the thrall of a foreign enemy.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:14 PM
Mar 2018

Any Democrat is better than any Republican.

Iggo

(47,486 posts)
13. I'll vote for the most progressive Dem in the primary, and for the primary winner in the general.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:14 PM
Mar 2018

As I always do.

And I'm not sure it matters if that's okay with anyone but me.

catrose

(5,047 posts)
14. Since Bush II I've been a ham sandwich Democrat
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:26 PM
Mar 2018

I'll vote for anything with a D beside the name, including a ham sandwich or my cat.

catrose

(5,047 posts)
75. Cats in general have more morals.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:33 PM
Mar 2018

Or they're so lazy that their inattention would be better for us than the current resident. They at least aren't malevolent toward us. Most days.

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
108. Nixon for Me
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 08:35 AM
Mar 2018

My first POTUS vote was for Carter! And it wasn't anti-Ford.
The pardon made me not trust him, but he was an otherwise honorable man.
After that, the R choices were obviously bad and nothing could get me to vote for any of them

 

Sam McGee

(347 posts)
15. I must be getting old . . .
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:34 PM
Mar 2018

At age 73, I must be getting really old . . . because . . . I never hear anyone describing themselves as a "Yellow Dog Democrat."

I am a proud FDR, NEW DEAL, YELLOW DOG DEMOCRAT

FDR: Because Franklin D. Roosevelt ranks right up there with Lincoln as one of our greatest Presidents. Yes, he had his warts as we all do -- however -- he pulled us out of the Great Depression, put in place Social Security and a LOT of other policies that Republicans are now tearing down . . . and he led us through WW II.

For those of you not familiar with FDR, you need to read his Second New Deal speech. THIS is what Democrats should be saying.
http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/od2ndst.html


We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.

They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.



NEW DEAL: Because he promised a New Deal . . . and delivered. We need another New Deal -- a Fair Deal.

YELLOW DOG DEMOCRAT: Given the choice between a Republican candidate and a yellow dog as the Democratic candidate, I'll vote for the yellow dog.


world wide wally

(21,718 posts)
34. Thom Hartmann will occasionally play exerts from FDR speeches and he was far too
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:21 PM
Mar 2018

radically liberal to be elected today.
This should make you wonder where we are as a nation today.

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
42. I don't agree that FDR couldn't be elected today.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:54 PM
Mar 2018

I think straight talk would win today.

Still want internment overturned by SCOTUS (which it hasn't been), though.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
39. I'm with you! We need a new New Deal, and we must get rid of
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:50 PM
Mar 2018

the American empire and see to the rebirth of the American Republic.

We have to care about each other again, and organize ourselves around human need instead of human greed.

I had a yellow dog. He sure as hell would have been better than the orange one presently illegally squatting in the White House.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
16. Totally with you
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:38 PM
Mar 2018

We do not have time for purity folks. We must all focus on beating the repubs. That's all that matters at this point.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
17. I vote for the Democrat regardless
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:39 PM
Mar 2018

If there's a contested primary, usually the first campaign to contact me will get my vote. If none do, I look at websites before I vote.

If there's an uncontested GOP race, I write in a fictional character (ie Mickey Mouse).

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
83. Oooh, I should have done that!
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:03 AM
Mar 2018

Live and learn. One never knows when a token protest might have an effect. Will do in future.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
130. or how about writing in a local democrat who is in a local office, like city council
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 01:33 PM
Mar 2018

if enough do it you could put in a real demo not Mickey.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
136. I only had to do it once
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:41 PM
Mar 2018

And it was for a local office where the GOP ran unopposed. I either put in Frank Underwood or Katniss Everdeen, I can't remember who.

Since then my local Dem party has stepped up candidate recruitment.

reggaehead

(269 posts)
19. Well, I live in Santa Cruz
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:42 PM
Mar 2018

I love Anna Eshoo. I like Kamala Harris and I am ambivalent about Diane Feinstein. Tho I would probably like Feinstein better if she didn't have such deep ties to the war machine. That said I will vote for the candidate with a (d) next to their name

Mountain Mule

(1,002 posts)
23. I loathe the repugs!
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:53 PM
Mar 2018

Damn straight I'm a yellow dog democrat. Not only will i vote all dem across the board, but I'll canvas neighbors and work the phones and do everything else I possibly can to get every last repug traitor out of office and behind bars!

annabanana

(52,791 posts)
24. We can fight each other AFTER we slam the brakes
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 09:55 PM
Mar 2018

on this runaway train.



. . . . . I'll still be here. Put'em up!

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
28. Do I understand you correctly that you aren't ok with voting for...
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:06 PM
Mar 2018

...Democrats if they are child abusers, wife beaters, russian plants, sexists, racists, homphobes, xenophobic or anti semitic?

Any one of those things?



 

melman

(7,681 posts)
32. "I'll entertain your demands"
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:13 PM
Mar 2018

Did someone put you in charge of demand entertaining? How nice for you.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
134. I don't get it the OP
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:27 PM
Mar 2018

What is the point of this post? Aren't purity tests tearing our party apart? Is anyone here not a Dem, and voting for one?

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,021 posts)
33. word of warning
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:17 PM
Mar 2018

Somewhere here on DU is a report of a real Repug who has stated he will run as a Democrat because of the higher likelihood of getting elected in November. The higher the chance of a blue wave, the higher the chance of imposters.

I just hope I get the chance to vote Democratic. (Living in a deep red cesspool, here).

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
35. Thank you!
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:26 PM
Mar 2018

Many here share your contempt, anger and frustration with that type. That Sarandonesque way of thinking is vain, arrogant and myopic.

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
44. I don't like Sarandon or Stein either.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:56 PM
Mar 2018

No understanding of our current system, either that or traitors.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
37. Well, yes, at this point, we must vote in Dems and flip both Houses.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:44 PM
Mar 2018

But be advised. People like me who advocate universal healthcare, expanded Social Security, and publicly funded tuition in state colleges aren't going to be going away any time soon.

We ARE going to have this argument and it will be quite vigorous...after we've taken our Republic back.

You know what I think is going to happen? I believe this Russia scandal and rapidly growing Constitutional crisis will bring down Trump, the numbskull clowns in his administration and most of the Republican Party. They, in fact, will go like the Whigs.

This will leave the Democratic Party, and it will subsequently split into two distinct branches - a conservative branch similar to the old Eisenhower Republicans, and a progressive branch who espouse more democratic socialist parties.

But...before we get there, we have to get rid of these nimrods come November.

So get active in your local Democratic Party, run for delegate if you want to exert some real influence, be vocal in recommending planks for the platform, and VOTE - in the primaries and in the election. Donate and volunteer to help candidates who represent your positions. Do this, and we will get rid of the American empire and preside over the re-birth of the American republic.



Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
38. Well.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:47 PM
Mar 2018

I just kicked in a few $$ to a more liberal primary contender. I wonder if that is to which you are referring...?

mjvpi

(1,384 posts)
43. I support your frustration. We need to be careful about stated dissent at forums like DU
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 10:55 PM
Mar 2018

It is a fact that the Russians are continuing to water the seeds of dissent. I agree with you that we need to come together for the general election, but our unexpected wins are coming from candidates that are talking about issues and avoiding the two party polarization. I am going to support issues that i care about like single payer health care and affordable higher education. I am going to support candidates who avoid big money contributions and are for ending citizen's united. Our primaries are supposed to be about setting our agenda. During my whole life my country has been marching to the political right. We do need to come together in the general, but we need to stand up for the issues that are the core of what we believe.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
51. No sitting Democrats should be primaried while Trump is in the office....if we don't get the GOP
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:03 PM
Mar 2018

out, it will be decades before you get anything on you list.

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
56. Sitting, maybe not.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:09 PM
Mar 2018

Otherwise, I will come to my own decision.

Actually, I will anyway, with due consideration to sitting.

Interested to know if this might be about the person I just kicked in a few bucks to. I am going by positions.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
62. I have no person in mind...I just think it is a waste of time and money when the house is on fire...
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:15 PM
Mar 2018

and resources could be better used...I do think that Manchin should not be primaried...if his opponent wins, we lose the seat. You should take electability into account in my opinion. I want every Democrat from a safe state or district who voted for the tax bill primaried after we get Trump out and a majority...that was a disgrace...but not now. We need to hang onto who we have and get more warm bodies so we can stop Trump and his minions.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
67. Thanks for that. I don't like Lipinski...but I would hate to lose the seat...of course isn't the
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:22 PM
Mar 2018

GOP who is running a against him a white supremacist or something?

Susan Calvin

(1,644 posts)
71. Oh dear god.
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:27 PM
Mar 2018

I must admit to not having looked that far. Live and learn. I hope I kicked in to the most electable, or at least that the most electable wins the primary. Must avoid knee-jerk, must avoid knee-jerk....

FreepFryer

(7,077 posts)
48. The GOP ran a fucking CHILD MOLESTER and supported him down the line...
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:01 PM
Mar 2018

Democrats can at least vote for the Democratic candidate despite a difference in policy position.

Get some fucking perspective, purity test absolutists !

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
68. New Democratic Party media slogan:
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:24 PM
Mar 2018

"Vote for us because we're not child abusers, wife beaters, russian plants, sexists, racists, homphobes, xenophobic or anti semitic"

But...isn't that how we ended up with a Centrist-Right Democratic Party in the first place?

"Vote for us because we're not that other guy" was an actual slogan they tried to float not too long ago, if you remember.

I want more from my party. I want to be proud to say, "I'm a Democrat".

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
135. That's the troubling part
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 02:32 PM
Mar 2018

That's still the tactics that are being used. This thread is an elaboration on that theme. Nothing is being offered except threats. That makes me and many others who are committed to the cause wary, and you can bet it's going to turn off others.

This tactic failed us in 2016, and it's still being used. I have little hope for the midterms after this thread.

DinahMoeHum

(21,737 posts)
72. The late great progressive, Doris "Granny D" Haddock. . .
Sat Mar 17, 2018, 11:28 PM
Mar 2018

. . .had some choice words for those stuck in the "Nothing-But-The-Best-For-The Oppressed" syndrome. . .
https://www.alternet.org/story/15789/don't_stand_in_the_way_of_our_joy

(boldface emphasis is mine - DMH)

(snip)
There are many among us. . . who will not support a candidate unless that candidate is perfect on every issue.
Politics is about winning.
For us, it is about winning to save lives and raise people up from poverty and illness and loneliness and injustice.
Those posturing on the left sometimes forget that.
Don't tell me that you can't support a particular candidate because of this or that.
This isn't about you and your precious political standards. It is about saving nature and our people. We are coming out to win, so please don't stand in our way.
When we have reasonable people in power, let us start our arguments again, for we can not move forward unless we have a decent government underneath us and a Bill of Rights to let us speak freely.

(snip)

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
94. Voting for an Independent regardless of his name means we lose period so
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:21 AM
Mar 2018

I will not vote for an independent regardless of his/her name.

Bluepinky

(2,260 posts)
124. Bernie is more progressive than many of the Democrats.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:51 PM
Mar 2018

He has been in politics a long time, and most of his progressive values are my values too. It’s a mistake to turn away his supporters just because he doesn’t have a “D” after his name. We need all the supporters we can get.

Demsrule86

(68,347 posts)
141. He is not a Democrat and voting for him in a general for the presidency...would cause a loss for
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:17 PM
Mar 2018

Democrats...he could split the vote but not win.

Liberal In Texas

(13,452 posts)
85. One votes for a Democrat, not
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:19 AM
Mar 2018

a Green, nor an Independent nor a Libertarian. And certainly not any Repub.

"Oh, I think he's kind of a good guy...but he's a Republican..." No he's not. He's a snake in the grass. If he isn't he's a fool and we don't need any more of them elected. There are NO good Repubs. It's just like there were no good Nazis. (Yes I said that.) They are beholden to the party. They dance to their tune.

"There's no Democrats running in the race." This is a huge problem. We have had this in Texas a lot. The Party needs to run a Dem in every f'ing race. Get with your local precinct and party chairs to make sure somebody is an alternative. You never know, the guy/gal might just get elected.
"There still isn't a Dem running for (name the race) who do I vote for?" Not the Repub. If unopposed, leave it blank.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
92. I will always vote for the Democrat, no matter what.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 07:05 AM
Mar 2018

Of course I will always prefer the most progressive Democrat, but I have realized that any Dem is better than a republican.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
111. Yeah this is a vote for survival this fall
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 09:00 AM
Mar 2018

I'm always voting democrat anyway. Made my mind up on that long ago.

The most conservative democrat is a million times better than any republican, any day!

Once we regain power in DC we can fight about which way to go, but we must regain power first!

We have to stop Shitler from destroying democracy because the f**ken republicans sure as hell won't!

R B Garr

(16,919 posts)
112. Yes! This is the kind of stick-to-it attitude we need, not
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 10:01 AM
Mar 2018

divisive sneers and smears. I am so glad to see the long overdue pushback against the hostile takeover that has being prevalent.

The way this Russia story is escalating and exploding, we need someone to keep pushing it over the finish line to expose the mafia villains. Bernie has been too tepid in his responses and is therefore not suited. We don’t have the luxury to wonder about why he is more hands off Russia; we need progress and punitive action. This is turning into the story of a lifetime.

To fight back, we need positivity about Democrats. Accept nothing less. You hit the nail on the head—while we were forced to give our power away, TRUE oligarchs seized control of our government. They did this by manipulating people to throw their votes away.

 

errant boy

(69 posts)
122. I'll vote for a Democrat with Cloven Hooves, Horns and a Pitchfork...
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 12:46 PM
Mar 2018

...if that's what it takes stop Trump.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,267 posts)
127. I always vote for the Democrat.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 01:18 PM
Mar 2018

I've never been in the position of having to consider voting for a child molester or other such reprobate because the Democrats seem to be better at weeding out the worst sorts of characters before we have to decide whether to vote for them. That's not to say that there have never been any disreputable Dems but they seem to be fairly rare. So I've always voted for the Democrat, and unless they offer up a sleazebag like Roy Moore or Trump I always will. Right now, in particular, is not a good time to insist on absolute ideological purity.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
128. agree totally. Sometimes you have to vote for the BETTER candidate
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 01:20 PM
Mar 2018

not the ideal candidate. With a democratic government we can work toward a better country. Just as long as it is not a fascist, KKK, oligarchic, Nazi regime, I am fine.

David__77

(23,212 posts)
144. Perhaps the purists are after Lipinski because he is anti-abortion too.
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 03:27 PM
Mar 2018

Some Democrats are tearing down Democrats that want to ban abortion.

I do wonder if some may consider that a misplaced priority.

garybeck

(9,932 posts)
156. You are obviously trying to bash Bernie Sanders
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:37 PM
Mar 2018

I disagree with your premise and your point.

I am a Bernie Sanders supporter.

I voted for him in the primary and I would again.

I voted for Hillary in the general election.

your premise does not hold any water.

I think people should stop blaming Bernie for Hillary's loss. Bernie actually awake in a lot of young people and brought them into the party. He endorsed Hillary. Many many many people who liked Bernie voted for Hillary. If you alienate them now and blame Bernie you are going to lose a lot of people. If your goal is to beat the Republicans I do not think it helps to bash and blame Bernie.

If you are looking for someone to blame try blaming the Russians and Facebook and Twitter and Fox News and our insecure election system.

njhoneybadger

(3,910 posts)
157. I'm with you 100% Boston, We only have about 30 months to save our democracy
Sun Mar 18, 2018, 06:53 PM
Mar 2018

Prudence and Pragmatism are in order

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
165. The answer, as always, is it depends.
Mon Mar 19, 2018, 09:00 AM
Mar 2018

I would never in a million years vote for Dan Lipinski- anti-choice, voted against ACA and is a literal DINO. I don't live in his district, but there is no way in hell I would ever vote for him. I would vote against him in a primary and abstain the general.

I would also never in a million years for Joe Lieberman, although I did when he ran for VP. That was before he destroyed the public option of the ACA and became the best friend of Republicans.

It depends on the individual in question.

I know this isn't the answer isn't the one you are looking for. But I am not and never have been a team player for the sake of being a team player.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
169. Principles still matter, though.
Tue Mar 20, 2018, 09:51 PM
Mar 2018

We absolutely cannot sell our souls in the name of winning. Cuomo, for example, has fucked over Democrats continually. He deserves to be primaries. Never in a million years would I vote for him for anything.

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