By definition, anyone who voted for Trump is an idiot.

[MineralMan]

Further, as everyone knows, talking to idiots makes you stupid by osmosis.

Therefore, talking to Trump supporters is not only a waste of time, it can harm your own ability to reason.

I recommend against doing that on general principles.

And that's my opinion for this Sunday.

[safeinOhio]

1. PC term is special...

Short bus special.

[MineralMan]

3. When it comes to Donald Trump, I simply call it like it is.

The word "idiot" lost its clinical meaning long, long ago. The meaning has changed over time. The most common synonym is now "moron," which also no longer has any clinical meaning. Both just mean "incredibly stupid person."

[safeinOhio]

9. Had a Psych professor that said

Experts in the field would call them “fucking nuts”.

[MineralMan]

16. Very concise and straightforward of that professor.

I like him/her.

[safeinOhio]

19. Dr von kluge

She was the best.

[MineralMan]

29. Interesting name, to be sure.

[SoCalMusicLover]

2. To Be Fair....

Some of them are just Corrupt or Evil. I would not call the Koch Brothers idiots, they are merely Greedy SOB's, who know that the repubs are going to bend over backwards to save them Billions. I have tax clients who are in the top 10%, and vote repub because of the constant promises of lower taxes.

But the repub party could not stand on it's own with just those voters. That would probably get them 15%. They need the 15-20% of Stupid voters to bring them to their 30-35% Base. Then they merely have to convince another 15% of voters to come over to the dark side, by promising them shit they're not ever going to deliver.

[MineralMan]

6. When it comes to people who voted for Trump, I see no reason

to be fair, really. For Koch brothers or half-cocked right-wingers, voting for Trump constitutes idiocy, as far as I'm concerned.

[erronis]

79. I agree. There are true imbeciles but the Kochs/Mercers are malevolent (along with greedy)

While binary nomenclature is helpful at times (good/bad, christian/zoroastrian), it is almost always wrong in so many dimensions. This desire to label everyone "with us" or "agin us" is a tools of divisiveness that is being fostered by "somebody".

I just saw a picture of papa Mercer and his "lovely" daughter at a RW gala. Malevolent fits. Binary. Not good --- BAD.

[Demsrule86]

4. They should be so ashamed...they can't look you in the eye...if not than they are raging racist...

I believe in tailoring candidates to their state...but see no need for special outreach by changing our platform.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. I'm with you... TOTALLY agree we shouldn't change our PLATFORM to appeal to tRump voters...

That would appear too wishy-washy and, at some point, Democrats have to stand on principle. Indeed, I would argue our platform needs to be somewhat MORE progressive, but that's an argument for ANOTHER day.

What I would argue here is that, given that a fair number of tRump voters ALSO voted for Obama in 2008 and 2018 - I've heard upward of 20-25% - in what both were deemed to be "change elections, " does it not make ANY sense to want to attract some or all of those Obama voters back to our side? You can't argue that those voters were racist, having voted for Obama, can you?

And that's where I would STRONGLY object to the broad sweeping generalizations Hillary made in India about all tRump voters being rascist, masogenistic, xenophobic, etc. YES, Hillary can say whatever she damn well pleases now that she's out of politics, but, that's not the point here... it's that those broad, sweeping statements are simply not helpful in winning back Obama voters we won over in 2008 and 2012, and, thus, those statements will be thrown back at Democratic candidates in the coming elections.

I don't see how reasonable minds can differ on this, but, yet I've received surprisingly incredible blowback in response, even personal insults that were completely uncalled for, but, have come to expect around here.

I only raise this with you Demsrule since you seem more reasonable than most, even though we disagree sometimes... but, always respectfully.

I'm curious as to your thoughts.

[Demsrule86]

73. I am not convinced...there are Obama voters...there were a lot of new voters in 16, but

if there were they would probably be independent voters who go back and forth...and were voting on economics and maybe immigration...we can't give in on immigration and I think or economic policy is sound... maybe run on healthcare and jobs and also tell the truth about the shitty tax cut. I believe Sen. Sanders is doing a town hall on the subject of income inequality in fact. Also have to talk about Trump's fascist behavior during the Mueller investigation...he is a threat to our Republic. Tailoring our candidates to their districts should help with the next few cycles...and we can begin to push a more progressive message at the grass roots level...did you notice some of the candidates who got elected in Virginia? Very encouraging.

[dalton99a]

7. I advocate ignoring them

If they want change, they'll vote Democratic

(assuming there is an expiration date on idiocy)

[MineralMan]

10. That is my opinion, as well. If they retain any intelligence at all,

they will see their mistake and correct it at the first opportunity. If they do not, then my opinion still stands.

What we need to do is to energize people who did not vote at all, out of frustration, ennui, or laziness. We also need to energize Democrats who have gotten out of the habit of voting in mid-term elections. If we do that, what the Trump voters do will not matter.

[Heartstrings]

55. Midterms are the key!

We always agree on that! This merry go round must be stopped in November!

GOTV!!!

[LAS14]

8. I'm disappointed in you, Mineral Man. I think of you...

... as an intelligent poster. Usually you think things through, although I don't always agree with you. But to paint all members of this very large (although not as large as ours) group is just not the kind of intelligent post I look for from you.

[MineralMan]

13. Is that so? Oh, well...

That is, I believe, the same exact post you self-deleted earlier. Thought again about it, did you?

I do not post here to gain followers or supporters. I post here because I have opinions. As it says in my signature line, your opinion might differ.

Don't be disappointed in me. It's not worth your time.

[onenote]

21. I'm not disappointed in your post. I just disagree with it.

I don't think one can accurately characterize everyone of the 63 million voters who picked Trump over Clinton (or a third party candidate) as an idiot. Or even as extremely stupid. The reasons that people voted for Trump over Clinton (or a third party candidate) are varied. It might make more sense to say that those who, a year plus later still support Trump and don't have any regrets about their vote -- a smaller number than the number that voted for him undoubtedly -- are stupid.

And apart from blanket characterizations such as yours being supremely silly, they serve no useful political purpose that I can see.

[Tipperary]

23. Yes. Generalizations are pretty idiotic too.

[MineralMan]

24. OK, well, here's the thing:

Those who realize their mistake will probably not make that mistake again, and so do not need my encouragement. The others would waste my time, which would be better spent encouraging Democrats to turn out in this mid-term election.

My time is limited. I plan to use it in the most effective way I can. Talking to people who voted for Trump, for whatever reason, is not a useful way for me to spend that limited time. If you wish to do that, by all means go ahead. I won't be bothering with that group in any way.

Who Donald Trump is was apparent in November of 2016, just as clearly as it is today. Why would I expend any energy on people who could not see that?

[dalton99a]

36. You hit it on the head with the first paragraph

[onenote]

64. Again i guess we just will disagree

My recollection is that you've been very active in political campaigns over the years, including canvassing for Democratic candidates.

Same here.

And if I heard that one of my canvassers, upon learning that the person he was talking to had voted for Trump, called that person an idiot and walked away, or even thought "idiot" and walked away, I would be reassigning that person to stuff envelopes instead of canvassing.

My wife was part of a large contingent of women who worked hard to get out the vote for Ralph Northam here in Virginia. There is no party registration in Virginia so when you canvass, you canvass every house. And that means getting the door shut in your face sometimes. But all of these women have stories of knocking on the door of someone who told them they voted for Trump for one reason or another (often because they didn't like/trust Hillary). These canvassers didn't spend time trying to convince such voters that they were wrong about Hillary or even that they were wrong about Trump. They made the positive case as to whey Northam would be better for them than his Republican opponent. Sure that involved directly or indirectly (as the case may be) pointing out that their vote for Trump was a mistake. But they did so respectfully and they won over a number of the voters with whom they interacted.

[LAS14]

68. 2Left4U made a good observation. It depends on where you live.

If you live in Trump country, there are not many ways to spend your time come election season, if you want to get out there and knock on doors. If you live in Harlem, then, yeah, no need to spend your time. But the objection to your post is that you lumped 63 million people into the basket "stupid." That's just not clear thinking. It's not worthy of a progressive discussion web site. We're better than that, I always thought.

[LAS14]

22. No, I self deleted because I mistakenly thought you were not the poster of the OP....

.... and that I needed to reply to a reply. Then I discovered I was mistaken.

[MineralMan]

25. I can but shrug.

[Eliot Rosewater]

76. I agree completely with you. Example, relative is exicted to go to her daughters

gay wedding soon, this relative is also a huge trumper

Now how fucking STUPID is that!

[Taraman]

59. I too am frustrated and afraid about our dangerous predicament

but I just had lunch with a friend who voted for Trump. He's very discouraged by Trump (which I hadn't heard before). So it's possible for people to wake up and change. I wish he would stop listening to Fox, though.

My best hope is that this is a grand lesson for Americans. I'm not sure that's the case, but I hope so.

[paleotn]

62. Sorry that the truth is painful.

I'm surrounded by them in my little county and Mineral Man is spot on. They are willfully ignorant and proud of it. You can't reason with people like that. One can only hope they somehow see the light or die off. At this point, I don't care which.

[BlueJac]

11. They can not be reasoned with...

they are a complete wait of time and effort!!!

[MineralMan]

15. So we should have discovered, I think, by now.

[Binkie The Clown]

12. Or, to be charitable, they are woefully mis-informed, and might possibly become informed. nt

[MineralMan]

14. I am in a singularly uncharitable mood these days.

Circumstances dictate that.

[dalton99a]

17. +1. We are living in highly irregular circumstances

not by choice

[mr_lebowski]

63. Well said!

[CentralMass]

18. I have two friends that I see daily at work. One I've known for 30 years, the other about 15.

One is 56 and he voted fod Gary Johnson. He thinks Trump is an idiot. The other guy is younger, around 45 and he voted for Trump. Both would never consider voting for a Democrat and can't stand Hillary and yet it is possible to have political conversation with them. If I articulate a point well on why the GOP's polices are bad they generaly agree or at least respect my point of view.

I've been through a lot personally in the last few years and the younger friend and his wife have been very kind to me. They have invited me over for some of the holidays where I can't be with family, or to watch a game or go do something. Both of these guys are good family men.

So I find it hard to condemn everyone just because of their politics. They except mine and we just agree to disagree.

[OMGWTF]

66. My BFF of 35 Years is Republican

and her husband was in the Reagan administration (both terms). She was apolitical before she met her husband and he has naturally swayed her thinking. They know I'm a Dem and we just don't talk politics. I have other friends for that.

[oasis]

20. If they voted Trump out of idiocy, or just pure meanness, they aren't

worth me giving them the time of day.

[MineralMan]

27. Bingo! We all have limited time.

I encourage people to spend it getting those who normally don't turn out for mid-term elections to the polls. That has promise. Talking to people who voted for Trump seems to me to be a waste of time. I doubt their judgment will improve.

[LAS14]

69. See my response #68

[Codeine]

26. Words of wisdom from a man of minerals. nt

[MineralMan]

28. To some, I am just Rockboy.

[Codeine]

35. Lithos Lad. nt

[MineralMan]

37. Oooh! I like that one!

[50 Shades Of Blue]

30. K & R!!!

[MineralMan]

31. Thankee!

[Paladin]

32. Well said, MM. (nt)

[TEB]

33. Yes mineral man

Their dumb I know quite a few trump voters. I tell em the Geico cave man blows you away when it comes to smarts.

[aikoaiko]

34. I'm not writing off anyone. I welcome all to vote for Democrats.

I'm happy to talk them about I think they should.

[First Speaker]

38. I've done this, at least de facto...and it's hard.

...there are people, even relatives, quite close to me who voted for Trump. I've basically cut them off, without exactly saying so...just can't deal with it, them, the lunatic "talking points", the sheer fact of seeing people whom I loved turned into Fox Zombies. I never did this with Nixon supporters, Reagan supporters, even Dubya supporters. It hurts.

[pazzyanne]

70. I'm a member of that club as well.

I watched my younger sister and her middle son become people I do not recognize. My sister told me that she can no longer associate with me because we have nothing in common, and she is right. I detest trump and the only other thing she and her son post about is guns and their idea of what the second amendment is all about. Needless to say, I no longer maintain any connection with my sister and it hurts. She is my baby sister who was my pride and joy as I watched her grow. Her "demise" started when she started going to an evangelical church with some pretty radical ideas and everything just escalated. Thanks for sharing your story. You are not alone.

[NCTraveler]

39. Happy Sunday to you. Nt

[bigtree]

40. yep

...and a miscreant.

[MineralMan]

41. Nah. They're "innocent by reason of mental defect."

That doesn't mean I should bother talking to them, though.

[bigtree]

46. as I've said before

...perspective can be different, depending on what you're defending against the onslaught.

During the razor-thin efforts to dismantle Obamacare, for instance, it was a matter of life and death who won that election. Voters chose Trump, despite his promises to end it.

For folks whose families are subject to being torn apart because of his unjust immigration policies and actions, it must be hard not to see voting for him as an immoral act, considering how clear he made it in the campaign what he would do to their families.

[Rorey]

82. Immoral act

I completely agree.

Years ago we needed some work done on a property we own. A gentleman was recommended to us and he did great work. I don't know if he's here legally. Since then we've hired him to do a lot of work. I consider him a friend. The last time he came to our house to work (a couple of months ago), I had the television on the Sunday morning programs. A clip of 45 came on and our friend actually dropped what he was doing and came into the room and asked if I liked that guy. I told him no, that I hate him, but that my husband voted for him. Our friend then said, "Then I hate HIM (referring to my husband)." I understood. I saw the pain. Later I tried to explain what his support for 45 felt like to our friend. It was like trying to explain a concept to a rock. Pointless.

[Jim Lane]

42. Tactically, I don't agree with writing off 46% of the electorate

If we start off by spotting the GOP all the Trump voters, it will be very hard to win, even by mobilizing people who didn't vote at all. To take just one obvious example, there are Obama-Trump voters whom we can reasonably hope to win back -- by talking with them, and not by calling them idiots.

In Pennsylvania we just saw a lot of Trump-Lamb voters. Many other elections in the past year have seen Trump voters going Democratic.

In 2016, if even one Trump voter in twenty had switched to Clinton, she would have won easily. She would have carried Florida as well as the three Rust Belt states that get most of the attention. That illustrates the huge practical difference between "anyone who voted for Trump" and "95% of the people who voted for Trump".

[MineralMan]

44. I'm sorry, but anyone who voted for Barack Obama and then for Trump,

Is the epitome of what I called Trump voters. Think about it. Where is there any reason in such a dichotomy?

As for PA, I'm not sure that's true. The reality is that many Trump voters did not bother to turn out at all, while almost 80% of Clinton voters did. That was the reason for Lamb's victory. I doubt that many Trump voters voted for Lamb at all. Most simply stayed home. I'm content with Trump voters staying home on election day this November. Truly I am.

[Jim Lane]

85. Lots of voters aren't reasonable but are reachable.

You ask, "Where is there any reason in such a dichotomy [Obama-Trump]?"

Millions of voters don't read DU or FR. They vote on comparatively non-ideological grounds. Sometimes it's "Throw the rascals out" -- with some of those voters abandoning Obama in 2012, when he was the incumbent, but others cutting him some slack because the Republican rascals were still running Congress.

In 2020, some of those voters may be disgusted with Trump.

"I'm content with Trump voters staying home on election day this November." Yes, it will be wonderful if they all stay home. They won't. In many races, we'll be in great shape if the Trump voters show up but 5% of them switch sides.

Why not talk to them, such as by pointing out how many of Trump's campaign promises he's broken? That will probably flip some of them, and induce others, who would never vote for a Democrat, to at least stay home.

[Rorey]

83. Well, we shouldn't call them idiots to their faces.

Unless we can't help it.

[Jim Lane]

86. OK, when you can't help it, that's understandable, and I forgive you. (n/t)

[milestogo]

43. Some of them are vicious assholes, not idiots.

They know he is a mean sonofabitch who is destroying the country, and they love it.

[MineralMan]

45. That's another entire group. I would never talk to any of those

in any circumstances. They are not good people at all. I don't waste any time on them.

[samnsara]

50. same here. Im tired of trying to educate the stupid...

..my sis who is a T partier DIDNT EVEN KNOW there were allegations of sexual misconduct against trump. 'Who said? she said when i told her i didnt see how she could openly support an admitted sexual predator. So Faux Brietbart and Newsmax are keeping them totally ignorant of what trump is doing to our country. I told her I simply didnt have the time to educate her.


She wouldnt believe me anyway. I told her to Google it.

[mythology]

47. Not every person can be reached and not every person can reach all who can be reached

But I find the idea of lumping them all into the bucket of "idiot" and thus not worth time to be more than a little short sighted. Have you never had an idea that turned out to be wrong? I know I have and I know somebody calling me an idiot wouldn't make me want to consider their side. Nor would ignoring me.

[samnsara]

48. i never use my FB acct but I posted that anyone who voted for trump is a Traitor in my eyes...

...and to unfriend me because Im going to unfriend them This included life long friends and some close relatives. But..like you said... they are idiots and at this point in my life I have no use for traitors. If they want to come crawling back to me begging for my forgiveness I JUST might....

They proved that they make terrible, dangerous decisions and now its up to me and the rest of the world to clean up their fucking mess.

[Cicada]

49. Or a Russian loyalist

[spicysista]

51. I think some were misinformed....

So, they may get a pass for the first vote. However, those that still support 45 are most certainly idiots or are just plain evil! Usually, I try to be more forgiving with people. But those folks......all I can do is just shake my head.

[RKP5637]

57. Yep, he's a con artist and some did the first vote falling all the way for him. But the hangers on

now are despicable and stupid!

[randr]

52. It takes a traitor to vote for a traitor

[raven mad]

53. LOL! I just got out of the hospital Friday night -

after a 6-night stay, and only had to threaten one sTrumpeter with the bedpan! It seems most of our hospital medical folks despise him!

[LiberalArkie]

54. I would not go that far, as I feel that a large number of very shrewd people wanted

Trump to take power. Most of those are in the .05% of wealthy in the U.S.

They are hoping for the return on their investments like the ones who were on the upside of the depression.

There are a lot of people who make a lot of money by betting against the general public and even the people like Gates and Bezos etc whose wealth is in stock.

[LBM20]

56. I guess you want to keep losing elections and being permanently in the minority. Goody for you.

[Eliot Rosewater]

77. This is a democratic party site. This site is dedicated to democrats.

[MineralMan]

87. Nope. Just the opposite.

But, I apologize. I don't know you, frankly. I haven't seen enough of what you have to say to form an opinion of where you stand on anything. Maybe I'll learn more about that in time.

It's clear, however, that you know me even less well.

[TheSmarterDog]

60. You are correct, sir.

[shadowmayor]

61. Never wrestle with a pig

You'll end up getting muddy, hot, and tired and chances are - the pig will like it!

[BobTheSubgenius]

65. I respectfully disagree with your major premise.

Not all of them were idiots - some knew exactly what they were doing, and consciously and enthusiastically voted for chaos and evil.

[elmac]

67. 100% agree, a total waste of time and energy

most will figure it out by themselves when they are homeless, penniless, bagging on the corporate owned streets & forced to give a percentage to tRumpcorp.

[Gothmog]

71. Agreed

[FakeNoose]

72. If you can't tell that he's a conman, guess what?

[thegoose]

74. Yep. Sadly, that includes members of my family

And I look at them as if they've suddenly become an alien species.

[Submariner]

75. I belong to the USSVI - United States Submarine Veterans Incorporated

I have been a life member since fellow veterans and the organization showed up on the internet in 1997. Being a member sort of doesn't matter to me anymore, so DU is my only refuge now.

We we're excited connecting with each other after not seeing/hearing from each other since the 1960s. Now, I am not welcome on one of the message boards, and I am totally banned/locked out from another message board for being a traitorous Libtard who loves Hillary's cankles and that Muslim Obama who just ruined the nation during his 8 years in office.

All Trump lovers from red states. The liberal subvets, including myself, have given up on them since they turned into idiots. It sucks.

[Blecht]

78. Not only idiots

You need to add sadists, masochists and bigots to be complete.

Idiots, sadists, masochists and bigots -- how could one describe such a group? Maybe a basket of something?

[Rorey]

80. I agree that at least they were idiots when they voted for him

Some will always be idiots. A few may realize that they were idiots and regret that idiocy.

Those who STILL support him are idiots. They're a waste of my time and I try very hard not to interact with them. I have no regrets that some of those idiots are no longer in my life.

I agree with another poster on this thread that we need to reach those who didn't vote at all. Those who are still supporting 45 can't be reached and it's a waste of time and resources to try.

[BootinUp]

81. Its hard to argue with the facts of this matter. K&R

[GP6971]

84. My wife's family are

staunch republicans and I know some of them regret having voted for Dotard. But they would never consider voting democratic...never. And it's the same thing for people I know who voted for Dotard...voting democratic is off the table. I've found that trying to change that mindset is very difficult if not impossible.