Russia turned Trump into a useful idiot

[Cicada]

Communists have long used the phrase “useful idiot” to describe those in the West who fell for propaganda planted in the West designed to get people to act in ways actually in the best interests of the USSR, now Russia. Russia recently did this via Paul Manafort in Ukraine. Paid by pro Russian elements, maybe paid from Russia itself, Manafort brought about the election of Victor Yanukovich. Yanukovich claimed his predecessor Julia Tymoshenko was a criminal, taking a bribe to pay high prices for oil from Russia. I suspect at Yukovich rallies they chanted “lock her up!” And they did that, locked her up for a long prison term. Turning political differences into criminal charges against political opponents is probably the fastest surest way to destroy a democracy. And it was what Russia wanted. Ukraine broke apart. The followers of Tymoshenko were of course insane with anger. The political disputes in Ukraine turned into armed fighting. In that weakened arena Russia was able to send in troops and occupy eastern Ukraine, taking over the critical ports they want for military and commercial reasons. Manafort achieved what those pro Russian forces wanted, what they paid him for. Hundreds of millions of dollars went into Manafort’s accounts in Cyprus banks, the banks Russians use to launder money to the West. Then Manafort took over Trump’s campaign working for free. Has that ever happened before, a campaign manager working for free to run a presidential campaign? And during this time I think funds continued to go into Manafort’s accounts in Cyprus Banks. If so they certainly came from Russia. And then - again! - we hear Lock her up! The words most likely to destroy our democracy just as they destroyed democracy in the Ukraine in Manafort’s previous campaign. So now Trump and his followers, having swallowed this Russian planted propaganda, turning it into actions which greatly help Russia, are the most recent examples of the communist classic, the Useful Idiot, yelling lock them up constantly. Idiots!

[Orange Free State]

1. Useful to them. Not useful to America

I’ll agree with the idiot part though.

[Cicada]

3. Yes, the communist useful idiot is designed to help the communists

To be useful to the USSR, now Russia. History is full of such useful idiots in the west tricked by communist planted ideas.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. He's always been an idiot. Only Putin could figure out a way to make him "useful"

to anybody.

[Cicada]

4. But now millions of others here have become useful to Russia

I don’t think people understand how deadly it is to jail political opponents. On you tube there are zillions of Trump supporters calling for jail for democrats. But of course it is also dangerous when we do it too. As tempting as it is to punish Trump criminally we should be extremely slow to do that. Sending him to jail, in my opinion, would also hurt us. And. I think Robert Mueller agrees with me. I predict Robert Mueller will write a report showing Trump has broken laws but will decide it is unwise to indict him. I think Robert Mueller will think deeply on this. And I think that is the wisest thing for him to do. I have faith Democratic elected officials will be wise enough to seek political rather than criminal solutions. What worries me is that I do not have faith in Republican elected officials. They are the ones who pose this extremely real danger imo.

We need to look at history. Jailing political opponents, rightly or wrongly, is almost always disastrous. It is the fastest surest route to killing democracy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Nobody is above the law. If he committed a crime that would send anyone else

to prison, why not him? The prosecution would not be based on his political opposition but on evidence he committed a crime; like every other citizen he would have the constitutional right to have his guilt proved beyond a reasonable doubt. But a crime is a crime. Of course it would be wrong to prosecute a political opponent on weak or downright fake charges (like Trump would like to do to Hillary), but not prosecuting someone who has apparently committed a serious crime is equally unjust. When Ford pardoned Nixon all hell broke loose because it was clear that he'd committed many crimes - and Ford himself recognized that the pardon cost him the 1976 election. If Mueller does not recommend indictment it will be because current DoJ policy holds that a sitting president can't be indicted for a crime - until they are out of office. But if he walks away scot-free after he leaves office, that's a slap in the face to the whole concept of equal justice under the law.

[Cicada]

6. It is possible Yulia Tymoshenko was guilty. Jailing her destroyed Ukraine.

Above courts there is often a blind folded woman holding a scale. We should treat all alike, hence the blindfold. But you have forgotten the scale. Justice requires a balancing of interests and there are many many cases where guilty parties are not punished in order to achieve a greater good. In order to achieve justice measured on a broader scale. President Carter pardoned those guilty Americans who fled to dodge the draft. They were guilty. But Carter did the right thing to achieve a greater justice. I hated Nixon, I protested Nixon, I came about one inch from the grasp of a policeman chasing me to grab me and arrest me at an illegal protest against Nixon. But I favored Ford’s pardon for the reasons Ford gave. Yulia did own a huge oil company. It is possible that the contract she signed as President to buy Russian oil had economic benefits for her. So fucking what? Was jailing her worth destroying the country? In war we drop bombs which kill innocent women and children. But most people think that to win the war it is worth producing that horrible pile of dead innocents. We sank a ferry in Norway with innocent Norwegians on board to keep Germany from getting the cargo of heavy water which could be used to make a Nazi atomic bomb. Churchill had to approve their deaths. He made the right choice. Look at the scales, not just the blindfold!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. We will just have to disagree, then.

Not prosecuting Trump and his cronies would send a very bad message - that once you achieve high public office you're free to violate the law to your heart's content and you'll never have to pay the price. If your party controls Congress you can even keep your job. Ford's pardon of Nixon was bad. The failure to prosecute members of the Bush administration so we could just "move on" was wrong. Failure to prosecute Trump, who has committed more crimes than all other administrations put together, would be the biggest miscarriage of justice ever.

[Gothmog]

8. Trump has been an idiot