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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite House Learns Its Tip-Robbing Plan Will Rob Waiters. Guess What Happened Next.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/white-house-learns-its-tip-robbing-plan-will-rob-waiters.html?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=s3&utm_campaign=sharebutton-bWhite House Learns Its Tip-Robbing Plan Will Rob Waiters. Guess What Happened Next.
By Jonathan Chait
The Trump administration is changing labor law so as to allow restaurants to control their employee tip pool. When youre enacting a regulatory change like this, you have to follow procedures, which include an analysis of its effects. The analysis showed that the thing anybody could guess would happen when you let the boss control the tip pool would happen: The employees would get a lot less of it. In this case, waiters, waitresses, and dishwashers would lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars.
What happened next? If your guess is, the Trump administration decided not to implement this change because it doesnt want to steal from working-class people, you probably havent been following the Republican Party very closely for the last few decades. No, the real response was to omit the analysis.
Budget Director Mick Mulvaney sided with Labor Secretary Alex Acosta to keep the study of the effects of this change on workers out of the rulemaking process. This, reports Bloomberg Law, allowed the department to delete from the proposal internal estimates showing businesses could take hundreds of millions in gratuities from their workers.
If you coastal elites dont like it, sorry the white working class in the Midwest wanted restaurant owners to be able to steal their workers tips, and thats why the voted for Trump.
Ilsa
(61,694 posts)spanone
(135,827 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,790 posts)Many servers and other tipped employees make damn little enough as it is. Let's take away a few bucks an hour more and transfer it up the ladder to the uber wealthy. That begets an increase indeed among the lowest levels of workers. That puts them into food stamp territory. That costs taxpayers.
Nicely played . . . . . . you FUCKS.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)My very first thought was a big no. End of tipping, or more likely big drop before end of tipping, which I'm fine with. It's already gotten far too much like the customers are paying the restaurant's labor costs instead of tipping for good service.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)There was an amendment attached to this (by a Democrat) that prohibits the employer from taking any of the tips for itself, which leaves the companies with the ability to force tip-sharing...which they can already do. Ironically, Repubs are generally against tip-sharing, since that's a form of socialism.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)although they may be distributed in a "valid tip pool" shared among TIPPED employees only.
Distributing them among all employees would drop incomes for tipped workers enormously.
Even if that amendment stayed and owners couldn't legally pocket any of the tips directly (note, massive theft would be inevitable), it would nevertheless mean a transfer of tip income to restaurant owners since, of course, many owners would drop pay rates for nontipped workers to offset the new income, including hiring at lower rates.
This isn't just not huge, it's a continuation of the usual scheme to transfer workers' wealth and power upward. Let them eat food stamps.
Plus, I'm not as comfortable as you that that Democratic rep's amendment would be in any bill passed. If it was removed, if employers paid tipped workers minimum wage, all tips would become the property of the employer. Again, although employees would insist on seeing some agreed amount returned to them, massive theft would be inevitable.
I didn't know that some conservative wingnuts consider tip pooling socialistic. That's funny considering the completely opposite purpose behind this. Some people are born fools.
The requirement that an employee must retain all tips does not preclude a valid tip pooling or
sharing arrangement among employees who customarily and regularly receive tips, such as waiters, waitresses, bellhops, counter personnel (who serve customers), bussers, and service bartenders. A valid tip pool may not include employees who do not customarily and regularly received tips, such as dishwashers, cooks, chefs, and janitors.
But if they decide to follow the DOLs new rule, and they dont take the tip credit, and instead pay minimum wage of $7.25 an hour to all their employees, then tips are no longer considered the property of the employee; they become property of the employer. That employer could split those tips between back and front of the house. Then again, the employer could also keep them all.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Whether it can be removed in the future remains to be seen, I guess.
Yes, I've seen comments by Repubs in other forums that tip pooling is socialism, since it takes the money earned by someone who worked for it and communally spreads it among others who did not. They have made comments like, "So lazy Sally can schlep all night and take smoke breaks and not work hard because she'll get part of the tips that some other hard working waiter earned." Along those lines.
I think this is aimed at (1) Repealing an Obama law; and (2) making sure tips are included in taxable income. They don't want the waiter to pocket a tip. They want it accounted for...like in a tip pool....so there's a record of it, and will be included in income accounting-wise.
I'm not sure I buy into that complicated scenario about sharing tips among cooks in order to lower the cook's wages. In the end, if the restaurant doesn't ensure the waiters get their tips, and doesn't pay the cook enough, they'll go work somewhere else. There's a high turnover in that line of work.
So it's not good that any Obama law is repealed, I'm not sure that this particular one is bad, per se. But although I was a waitress for a short time decades ago, I'm not up on what goes on re tips and wages these days. My experience was that the business really does want the waiters to get decent tips; they know these workers don't make much money and rely on tips.
The argument FOR tip pooling is that while one waiter may be great and another not, so that accounts for the difference in tips they receive, there are other factors at play. One waiter may luck out and get certain parties sitting in his area that have big tabs and/or big tippers, while another does not, so it's just bad luck that one waiter gets low tips one night.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)those wages from the owner to the customer. And in many restaurants cooks who don't want to be looking for other jobs will find themselves accepting lowering of wages to offset additional income from tips. Some won't be offered the choice, just let go.
I was a waitress long ago and understand all the arguments for tip pooling, Honeycombe8. With a good station at a casino restaurant in Nevada, my income at 17 years old was a marvel, the bus boys' poverty level, depending on the individual generosity of the waiters to bring it up a bit.
But it's past time to just say no to tipping altogether. It's no more acceptable for me for owners to increase their profits by shifting more of their labor costs to customers than it is to enable employers to drop pay below subsistence level by expecting full-time workers to go on government food stamps to make it possible.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)In the states of TX and LA, adults w/o kids get very little in food stamps, and only for a few months. This is a Republican fallacy...that people get food stamps forever, if they aren't paid much. Maybe KIDS do, but not adults w/o kids to feed.
They will qualify for Medicaid, though. But you have to be really poor in TX to get that: Less than $6k income. LA has expanded Medicaid, so the income cutoff there is about $12k, I think.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)extensive poverty and struggle to maintain. But should be.
Not that it's alone. I was down in Trump's West Palm Beach yesterday. A very short distance from Billionaire's Row, poverty began. If you look them up first to find them (most close to the coast of course), there are some nice upper middle class neighborhoods also, but they're surrounded by vast areas of modest neighborhoods at best, decrepit at worst, ugly boulevards everywhere but very close to wealth. Not an impressive town to tour, but a good illustration of what income maldistribution is doing to our nation.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)What does this have to do with Obama? Did he try to cut tips to tipped employees? 45 has not yet voted on the Omnibus bill, and this is a rules change, not a budget bill issue if I understand correctly.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)It's a better explanation...
hedda_foil
(16,373 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Consumers will all just stop tipping at restaurants, period.
This will FORCE the owners to raise the guaranteed pay of their workers otherwise nobody will work at their establishments anymore.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)There won;t be any other better paying jobs..
that's the play book these fuckers use...
SergeStorms
(19,195 posts)A one week walk-out by servers would cripple the restaurant and food server businesses. Do it on a special occasion week, like Easter. Restaurants are packed to the gills on Easter. Hit the bastards where it hurts.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Its also an insane day to work. I used to be a waitress. Organize a work stoppage in the week of Mothers Day and you win.
Its the one day when people who never dine out go to restaurants. They dont know how to order, much less how to tip. And Mothers Day also spills over into two days because one day is for the mother and the other one is for the mother-in-law.
The waiting times to get a table are two hours long shortly after the restaurant opens so every employee works the hardest day with the lowest tips. Its the day the entire family, from the smallest infant to grandmothers who are dragged out of retirement homes on that day only go out to eat.
Generally speaking, its a nightmare.
librechik
(30,674 posts)If they want. If the pay or hours are short, the government supplements their pay. In Australia, everybody is in it together.
mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)The Trump administration's move has been highly controversial, with Democrats arguing the proposed change would allow business owners to keep the tips for themselves. The liberal Economic Policy Institute said $5.8 billion in tips could be taken under the administration's proposal.
The omnibus bill would prevent that by updating the Fair Labor Standards Act to say: "An employer may not keep tips received by its employees for any purposes, including allowing managers or supervisors to keep any portion of employees tips, regardless of whether or not the employer takes a tip credit. Violating the law would subject employers to penalties of up to $1,100 for each violation in addition to paying back the tips.
not fooled
(5,801 posts)he could steal from the waitstaff at all his properties.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)calimary
(81,220 posts)Hes a liar and a grifter of the first order.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)White morons in upstate New York...
marble falls
(57,077 posts)to keep my tips.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)MyOwnPeace
(16,925 posts)YOU WIN!!!!!!!
That is the POSTER OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)I saw it on twitter. Worth sharing
calimary
(81,220 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Another cause that's gotten carried away and now all restaurant jobs suck and are filled with abuses, hurry let's rescue the poor bastards.
The same number of hours worked at $15 an hour would cut her pay in half. HALF. Nice save there liberals.
Still In Wisconsin
(4,450 posts)Lumping every white working class voter together will definitely help win Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin!
Thanks for explaining all of this to us dummies in flyover land.
janx
(24,128 posts)sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)appleannie1943
(1,303 posts)Maggiemayhem
(809 posts)Delmette2.0
(4,164 posts)I always tip in cash and hand it directly to the waitress/waiter.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,848 posts)And maybe a few others who aren't paid enough.
Sometimes I hear stories of wait staff who make 50k or more, as if that's a bad thing. Me, I've never waited tables, don't want to, and appreciate those who do that for their job.
Oh, and I ALWAYS tip in cash, because I've heard stories of restaurants not paying out the tip immediately, or subtracting whatever percent is part of the credit card. No.
It would be nice if wait staff were paid a good wage to begin with, but until that happens, I will always tip well, even if the service is less than exemplary, and tip in cash.
stopwastingmymoney
(2,041 posts)It was the hardest job I've ever had, both physically and mentally.
Servers deserve every dime they make
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)When they are hungry and in a hurry.
Really hard on the body as well.
argyl
(3,064 posts)Dont use cash much anymore, like most people. But from here on waitstaff, delivery people, and whoever else depends upon tips for much or most of their income will receive cash from me.
Wont say the bills may not be a little crumpled or wrinkled but theyll be spent by those who earned it.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Waiters and waitresses have to deal with idiots trying to get them fired, constant whiners who look down on them, putting their fingers in the sloppy remains of leftovers that look like they were ravaged by an ogre, and managers who range from life-hating asshole who wants to take it out on the world to downright sociopathic. Ive never been a server, but I always have the utmost respect for people who are.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)Most waitstaff here in Fairbanks are college kids; they shouldn't HAVE to pay taxes while earning less than minimum wage. We do cash, directly into the waiters/waitresses/bartenders hands. You'd be amazed how great a service we get in many of the nicer places in town. We never stick to the 15% rule unless the service was truly awful; then, consider why it was (chef too slow, accident in kitchen). If it truly appears to be the waitstaff's fault, they still get 15%.
Maggiemayhem
(809 posts)Waitstaff are taxed on their sales, not what they make unless they keep a log. Waitstaff do get audited by IRS occasionally.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)Except when we both have "the stupid" and don't have any cash! Weird about it; we won't even order delivery (here there are times it is way more convenient)if we don't have tip cash for the delivery person. Especially at 30+ below.
we can do it
(12,182 posts)alfredo
(60,071 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)While we usually use a credit card to pay for our meals, we like to leave the tip in cash. So the restaurant owner doesn't get his grubby hands on it.
DFW
(54,358 posts)I can't follow what happens after I sign my name to some credit card bill. I CAN make sure a waiter gets the amount of a bill in cash, and can stick the rest in her or his pocket. I know that paying in cash is being more and more frowned upon. I don't give a rat's ass. Our banknotes may have the ridiculous "In God We Trust," but they also say "legal tender for all debts, public and private." A tip is an unspoken private debt I owe to the one who served me my meal.
I NEVER trust someone not to take what he can from someone who has no recourse if he gets stiffed. Ergo, cash it is. I can handle the stares.
malthaussen
(17,187 posts)Because if you tip by CC, laws allow the owners to subtract the credit card fees from the tip instead of paying it themselves. They've been getting away with that for years.
Fortunately, this change did not make it into the spending bill.
-- Mal
AllyCat
(16,178 posts)How is that legal? Where is this the case? Federal? States? I always try to tip in cash. I will be extra careful now to be sure I have cash on me if we go out. Ugh.
On edit: I just found [link:https://consumerist.com/2014/08/07/restaurants-can-deduct-credit-card-fees-from-servers-tips-but-should-they/|this. What a scam! I cannot believe this is legal, but it is. Consumer reports article excerpts a statement from Department of Labor. Horrible.
malthaussen
(17,187 posts)There are no statutes on this, so it's basically up to the merchant (and whether he knows he can do this). Several articles on tipping advice (there are articles on everything, it seems) mention this, for example: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/should-you-use-your-credit-card-to-tip/ (2nd para).
-- Mak
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,445 posts)https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/15-important-measures-buried-in-the-2000-page-omnibus-bill
Workers earning tips: The omnibus blocks a proposed Trump administration rule that would have allowed employers to keep or pool some of the tips earned by servers and other workers. Pg. 2,025.
7962
(11,841 posts)brush
(53,768 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Not only do the republicans want more for themselves, but they seem absolutely determined to make the lives of working people as unfair and miserable as possible. I really hope there is a hell and that these bastards burn there for an eternity.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)That should be our lesson.
I'm sure some thought the millionaire cheater and liar would help them (one of my husband's high school friends, a stoner jazz drummer, said he voted for Trump because Hillary would start a war with Russia and Trump was gonna help him get a job??????!!!!!!), but most are with Trump and always will be because he's a blatantly bigoted and as belligerently ignorant as them.
dameatball
(7,397 posts)Trump: Why is there a wet-looking oyster on my well-done steak?
Waiter: Uh, let me replace that for you sir.
mac56
(17,566 posts)Initech
(100,063 posts)bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)If I pay a tip, it isnt for some greedy manager asshole to pilfer. I already paid the restaurant for the food. With the tip, I want to pay the waiter/ress for their effort.
If this passes, I hope the wait staff starts covertly pocketing their tips. Im tired of these assholes who treat waiters and waitresses like garbage. I already paid, and while that server was busting their butt to feed me, you did nothing, so go screw yourselves!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)to forbid employers from taking the tips.
sl8
(13,747 posts)From https://www.vox.com/explainers/2018/3/21/17101260/trump-labor-department-tip-rule
Helen Richardson/The Denver Post via Getty Images
By Alexia Fernández Campbell
Updated Mar 22, 2018, 2:05pm EDT
House Republicans passed a spending bill Thursday that includes an important amendment to the Fair Labor Standards Act. It bars employers from keeping tips earned by workers.
The text, written by Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA), was added to the bill to block a proposed Trump administration rule that would have allowed employers to pocket the tips of millions of workers a move that could cost service workers $5.8 billion a year in lost tips.
The amendment would soften the blow of the new tipping rule the Department of Labor (DOL) is developing. The rule, which the agency proposed in December, would repeal an Obama-era regulation that made official what had been the common view for decades: that tips are the sole property of the workers who earn them. It would essentially allow employers to share their workers tips with other staff, or keep tips for themselves, provided they pay workers the full minimum wage. The provision in the spending bill would prevent employers from pocketing the tips, but would not stop them from pooling tips earned by servers to share with non-tipped employees.
...
But even if it does pass, the amendment wouldnt completely void the Labor Departments proposed tipping rule. The rule would still allow employers to share a workers tips with a larger pool of workers if they are paid the full minimum wage. That would immediately effect workers in at least seven states including Nevada and Arizona that already require employers to pay tipped workers the full minimum wage. (Under federal law, the minimum wage for tipped workers is only $2.13; the full minimum wage is $7.25.)
...
More at link.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I was wondering if the Patty amendment would fix the issue.
But you know, the employers have always been able to do this, I believe, up until the Obama admin. rule. Which is odd, because it's a form of socialism, when you think about it. The waiter isn't able to keep his own tips; he must share with the others, regardless of who did the better job. There are pros and cons to that.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)Higher end places often required a payment to bus boys, runners, and even in some cases hostess. Federal regs may have stopped the practice. I knew some places where the service staff established the tradition on their own.
still_one
(92,151 posts)geardaddy
(24,926 posts)klook
(12,154 posts)ALWAYS tip in cash. That way, the workers actually get the tips.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Clickbait headline, snarky copy.
Demsrule86
(68,553 posts)TheFrenchRazor
(2,116 posts)don't you know....