Mayor Bloomberg pushing NYC hospitals to hide baby formula so more new moms will breast-feed

[shadowrider]

The nanny state is going after moms.

Mayor Bloomberg is pushing hospitals to hide their baby formula behind locked doors so more new mothers will breast-feed.

Starting Sept. 3, the city will keep tabs on the number of bottles that participating hospitals stock and use — the most restrictive pro-breast-milk program in the nation.

Under the city Health Department’s voluntary Latch On NYC initiative, 27 of the city’s 40 hospitals have also agreed to give up swag bags sporting formula-company logos, toss out formula-branded tchotchkes like lanyards and mugs, [font color = red]and document a medical reason for every bottle that a newborn receives.[/font color]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mayor_knows_breast_WqU1iYRQvwbEkDuvn0vb1H

[BeyondGeography]

1. Bloomie's just getting weird

GTFO already.

[shadowrider]

2. Agreed n/t

[peacebird]

3. That is patently assinine. Not all women want to breast feed. I did not. My mom could not.

My son is perfectly healthy 30 year old, and I am perfectly healthy as well.

Breast feeding is great, and for those women who choose that path for their families I say - fantastic! It should be supported, BUT it should NOT forced down the throats of those who make other choices.

[Tikki]

48. Some women are taking/using substances and should not breast feed...does bloomberg include

a list with each new baby?


Tikki

[randome]

49. How is anyone forcing someone to breast feed?

I don't get it. Stopping hospitals from pushing formula is the same thing as 'forcing' mothers to breast feed? How does that work?

[shadowrider]

50. It works because you now need a "medical reason" to give an infant formula

that, in effect, forces breastfeeding, absent a medical reason.

[pnwmom]

55. Every woman in a hospital is under the care of a physician

who could easily provide a medical reason. A mother's unwillingness to nurse is a perfectly valid reason for a doctor to say that the baby has a medical reason for needing formula; otherwise the baby will go hungry.

[randome]

57. Well, the nurses need to document a medical reason.

That does not mean any exam needs to take place.

A 'medical reason' might be that the mother says so.

I agree, I don't see the value of the documentation but I don't see hospitals insisting on breast feeding, only advocating it.

I'm also not female but it does not seem like a big deal to me. Medical personnel SHOULD advocate the most healthy alternative. They should not be pushing corporate formula.

[peacebird]

66. ummm... I am a woman, I believe we are smart enough to know what is right for us. I remember the

Hard sell by the very determined mothersmilkbrigaide when I was pregnant. I am sure La Leche has done a lot of good, but the browbeating and guilt trips they gave me were nothing short of abuse.
I did not breast feed my child. He is absolutely fine.

"advocating for the most healthy alternative" followed to its most extreme end would mean a return to all of us eating meals made from wholesome whole organic ingredients, no fast food, no soda, no tobacco, no alcohal, limited meat, and getting our fair share of healthy physical activity instead of sitting watching tv, or surfing the internet. Are you ready to sign up for that level of intervention? In th name of "advocating for the most healthy alternative"?

[randome]

69. I'm sure it can go both ways, as you said.

The 'hard sell' to breast feed. And the push by formula companies.

I don't know if this is the right balance or not but it does not seem that anyone's rights are being abrogated. And I don't think, in general, this means a return to trying to 'shame' mothers.

I could be wrong, of course, but I don't see it that way now.

[peacebird]

73. "Doctor, this woman refuses to feed her infant, it will die without a medical request for formula"

No intent to shame a woman in that scenario. None.
Purpose in requiring a notation in the records of medical need for formula? No idea.
Results of same? Medical record stating in effect that Bad evil woman refuses to nurture her infant....

[randome]

77. I don't understand the need for documentation, either.

But I doubt it needs a doctor's okay. Probably just a nurse marking the record as 'Mother prefers to use formula.'

Case closed.

I don't know that, of course, but I bet that's all there is to it.

[gollygee]

93. They already document how you're feeding your baby

In fact, they will give you a chart asking either how many ounces and when, or if breastfeeding how long on each side and when. It isn't an issue of documenting something that isn't yet documented.

[randome]

99. Good point.

Maybe the documentation is: '11 ounces of formula today'.

Done!

[HiPointDem]

147. "document a *medical reason* for every bottle (of formula) that a newborn receives"

[vanlassie]

111. It is to keep the nurses honest. They push formula for prizes.

And they are too lazy to learn about breastfeeding and to take the time to help mothers. Not all nurses, of course, but too many.

[HiPointDem]

148. I very seriously doubt that. Most hospital pediatric departments i've been in have been promoting

breastfeeding for at least the last 20 years, with lactation specialists etc. It's not up to the whim of individual nurses, it's policy -- Joint Commission Standards.

[vanlassie]

150. No it is not policy in most hospitals, which is why California

Had to pass legislation requiring a feeding policy ( not actually even specific to Bfing) effective in 2013, and Joint Commission has only added lactation as an optional measure this year. Most hospitals have NO LCs and some have cost cut them away.
The reason for documentation is to track how well hospitals are actually doing instead of their lip service. There is a massive gap between the 90 percent planning exclusive Bfing and the 50 percent leaving the hospital actually doing so.

[HiPointDem]

151. well, it apparently is around here, because even our tiny country hospital has a lactation

specialist.

http://oregon.providence.org/patients/programs/providence-breastfeeding-centers/Pages/default.aspx

and providence california has them too:

The Providence Tarzana Women's Pavilion focuses on family-centered care, beginning with education classes about pregnancy, childbirth, baby care, and parenting. Obstetricians, maternal-fetal medicine specialists, certified nurses, and lactation consultants all work together to provide the best possible birth experience.

https://california.providence.org/tarzana/Pages/Women-and-Children-Services.aspx

Lactation Consultant
We encourage mothers to breastfeed their infants. Unless there are physical or mental reasons that prohibit breastfeeding, breastfeeding is physically and emotionally healthy for both the infant and the mother. To help mother and baby, a lactation consultant is available in the NICU at bedside twice a week by appointment. Additional lactation support is available as needed. The lactation consultant provides one-on-one breastfeeding assistance and education to nursing mothers, as well as breastfeeding management strategies and techniques.

https://california.providence.org/tarzana/Pages/womens-pediatrics-nicu-support.aspx

and in fact i see a long list of california hospitals with lactation specialists on google:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=california+hospital+lactation+consultant&oq=california+hospital+lactation+consultant&gs_l=hp.3...1194.8785.1.9105.40.34.0.5.5.1.485.7877.0j18j9j5j2.34.0...0.0...1c.xRrOUd7Hrzg&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=71e82cc23c1cc163&biw=1024&bih=580

and my cousin a long-time pediatric nurse tells me different than you do.


However, I must say that Bloomberg's directive is very interesting to me (& googling around I see he's not the only one) in this climate of budget cuts and cuts to medicaid.

It's also interesting that breastfeeding was considered declasse when the lower orders did it, but now that most women have to work & don't have much, if any, maternity leave, funding for formula is being cut off.

I predict this will not turn out well.

[pnwmom]

205. This rule only applies to mothers who WANT to breastfeed and are trying to do so.

So why is this such a big deal? In some hospitals, nurses push formula because it makes the babies sleep longer, and gain weight faster, and makes the nurses job easier. But formula supplements to a breastfeeding baby interfere with the mother developing her milk supply. So now, when a mother CHOOSES to breastfeed, nurses can't offer formula unless there is a valid medical reason -- not just the convenience of hospital staff.

[Sheepshank]

191. Every woman giving birth in any hospital

can bring in their own bottles and formula. No on eis stopping them. Some want their babies to be aclimatized to certain types of bottles and not the generic hospital bottle.

Many mothers want to breastfeed and it's not necessarily easy for beginners....or those with some experience. Having a bottle at one's elbow increases the likelyhood of giving up too soon.

Companies push the formula in a pretty heavy handed manner. Formula companies will vie for exclusive rights to hospitals, to be 'first in' with the formula mothers give their babies....realizing that most mothers will not switch formulas for fear of upsetting their babies maturing digestive systems. These companies have multi millions of dollars on the line. They can guarantee a return customers several times a week for up to 2 years. I had 3 kids, 3 separate issues with breastfeeding each one of them. If not for lactation consulting, I would have given up on all three of them within the first 2 days.

[aquart]

153. Not encouraging is NOT "forcing".

So few people are "perfectly healthy," just keep counting your blessings.

[TwilightGardener]

156. Yep. Totally agree.

[whathehell]

201. Thank you!...n/t

[pnwmom]

204. And it is patently untrue. The OP misstates what the regulation will do.

It doesn't affect every newborn. It only affects the newborns of the mothers who say they want to breastfeed and are trying to do so. In the past, some nurses in some hospitals have offered unnecessary formula to breastfeeding newborns, because it can cause them to sleep longer and be less work.

Unfortunately, formula feedings in the early stages of nursing can interfere with a baby's ability to nurse, because the baby has to work harder, and more often, when feeding at the breast. So some reject the breast if they've been offered the bottle. Or, if they're given unnecessary supplements, they nurse less often at the breast than is necessary for building up the milk supply.

Now, a nurse can't offer a bottle to a newborn unless there is a medical reason -- not convenience for the nursing staff -- for doing so.

But it is completely up to the mother whether she decides to nurse or not. That choice is not affected by this regulation.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Bloomie hates choice on any number of topics

and thinks we cannot make our own decisions

[Betty Jo]

5. Got Milk ?

Mother Nature gave women,like all animal mammals,breasts for a reason.That reason is to feed the baby.Doctors all over the world encourage breast feeding.Bravo to the Mayor!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Breast feeding is clearly the better answer

and just about everyone knows that. Bloomie's heavy hand is the issue

[physioex]

27. Not necessarily true....

You have not taken into account that corn is subsidised by the government making sodas and meats cheaper. In most countries meats costs way more than any fruits or vegetables. The same industry that markets these formulas for profits have decreased the levels of breastfeeding which is way more beneficial. You need to look at all the heavy hands before you point to a particular.

[shadowrider]

29. In what way possible is corn subsidised by the government

influencing a mothers decision to breast feed or use formula?

The issue is choice. Bloomy is taking that away (absent a medical need) which is ridiculous.

[physioex]

30. I was referring to the corporate structures that run this country....

You need not look far to see all the marketing for processed unhealthy products. The same way fresh fruits and vegetables do not receive any advertisement neither does breastfeeding.

[shadowrider]

34. Anyone can market anything they want. It's the consumers choice whether or not to buy.

If the government (NY, think Bloomy) decided everyone there WILL buy healthy food, would you accept that or consider it intrusion on your choice of what to feed your family?

This issue isn't about marketing or gigantic profits to be made. It's about allowing new moms to make their own decision about what to feed their newborn. Nothing more, nothing less.

[physioex]

36. OMG This place can be more RW than Yahoo....

OK I agree with you in principal, but let's cut all these farm subsidies and let the chips fall.

[shadowrider]

41. I don't disagree

[gollygee]

95. I think there are places that should be free from marketing.

Hospitals and schools anyway.

[physioex]

101. And that was my point...

And everyone is in on the act from the Doctors, Hospital Administrators, and CEOs of big Pharma while we end up being the saps...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Using the force of law and regulation

on things that there is clear choice about is Bloomie's hallmark.

Yes there is marketing, but I do not think it is a heavy a hand as regulation. Even without it, every hospital that does Obstetrics that I have seen supports breast feeding as they should. That may not be true in other countries, but NYC was still in the US.

[pnwmom]

134. I'm so sick of libertarians, that this seems like a welcome change.

If anyone needs a "nanny state," it's newborns.

This regulation only affects formula marketers. It won't limit mothers' choices at all. They are free to ask for and receive formula. And all a doctor has to say, for a medical reason, is that the baby needs the formula for nutrition. (The medical necessity applies to the baby NOT the mother. And formula is a medical necessity for any baby whose mother has decided not to nurse.)

[vanlassie]

138. Exactly. What are all these reactive comments about? Geesh.

Newborns need the BEST care and so do their mothers. This issue has simmered for YEARS and it's about allowing commercial interests into our hospitals to intrude into healthcare. Everyone should be against that! No one says a family can't buy formula!

Years ago my dentist used to have a cigarette burning over the sink while he was examining me. We decided as a matter of public health that this is no longer acceptable. Nor is smoking on planes. We didn't take cigarettes off the market, however, and mothers can purchase and use formula with NO need to justify to anyone.

This is about industry. As usual. They have no concious. So we have to rein them in.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

139. Fought 1%er like Bloomie all my life to give people options, its not libertarian in the least

And I have not used the term nanny state.

Bloomie's style is authoritarian and I don't believe he has the best interests in newborns and their mothers at heart. Its just not in him

[vanlassie]

141. Well in this case, even a clock is right twice a day.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

144. Interesting seeing the thread in HOF on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12558585

I fully support breast feeding (to the extent I have a voice in it). However, I believe that new mothers can and do make the right choice and that while Bloomie is doing the right thing his methods and certainly his motives are suspect.

[pnwmom]

143. The OP that you seem to agree with said "The nanny state is going after moms."

Which is completely not true.

The regulation only prevents formula companies from marketing through the hospitals. It doesn't prevent mothers from requesting or using formula.

[riverbendviewgal]

6. breast feeding is healthier

I did it and believe it is best for baby....Pushing formulas are money makers for the hospitals.

Formulas should not be promoted with going away swag bags....

[Bluerthanblue]

9. +1

[shadowrider]

10. While I agree with you for obvious reasons, this removes, without a medical reason

the CHOICE of the parent.

The nanny state is telling the mothers how to care for their kids.

If a new mom wants formula, she should be able to request formula, and get it, it without a medical reason.

[lame54]

14. the baby formula companies are doing the same thing

[shadowrider]

15. I don't disagree

IMO, the choice should be with the parent, not with the state dictating behaviour. Nothing more, nothing less.

[xmas74]

20. And this could actually help the parents make a choice.

I remember with my own child finding out that a nurse had been bottle feeding her while I was asleep. The formula companies encourage this so far as to give out lots of free samples for both the new mother and the hospital-even those who choose to breast feed are given samples.

If a parent chooses to bottle feed all they have to do is state so and the number of bottles of premade formula will be set aside and will be easily accounted for. Keeping track of the bottles is an easy to be sure that newborns are not being fed while mom sleeps.

I know a few breastfeeding activists who have been stating that something like this should be done in every hospital. If a parent chooses to bottle feed it's not a big deal-the bottle is brought in every two hours or so for baby to eat.

[pnwmom]

56. The choice is still with the parent. If the mother refuses to nurse

than the baby has a medical need for formula so that the baby gets adequate nutrition.

[randome]

59. Exactly.

That's all the documentation anyone needs.

[vanlassie]

83. The documentation is aimed specifically at the nurses, (and docs)who have a habit of pushing formula

rather than doing the harder job of helping the mother and baby get started breastfeeding. That is the only reason for the documentation, and it would never have come about had the medical profession taken their jobs seriously- feeding infants is part of what they should be trained to know how to help with- and they have failed to do their part.

[Coexist]

22. or are the corporations doing everything they can do get moms to give up breastmilk - which is FREE

to buy their product - which is expensive? Once your breastmilk dries up - its GONE and you HAVE to use formula

After my first was born.. i NEVER signed up - but an entire CASE of ready to use formula arrived at my door. That is disgusting.

[shadowrider]

24. I understand, but you made the decision, it wasn't made for you. That's my point n/t

[Coexist]

25. they sent formula to a brand new mom... who may be struggling with breastfeeding

who's partner or mom or mom-in-law might decide to "let her sleep" and feed my baby a bottle... who is tired and overwhelmed and might rethink something she thought was important but is exhausted... it's sleazy.

[CTyankee]

87. I don't think "tired and exhausted" is a good state to be in.

I really don't know what you are saying. If a new mom is sent home and becomes tired and exhausted despite repeated attempts to breast feed and the baby is crying constantly from hunger, what do you suggest? A breastfeeding nurse to come in the middle of the night? That ain't gonna happen.

Circumstances alter cases. Some women have problems breast feeding, others do not. It is a fact. I have seen it in my own life and that of my daughters. I wish we could get real about the situation because it is not all one side or another. It just isn't.

[Coexist]

91. I was a LLLI leader... I made house calls for free at all hours for new moms

most new moms are exhausted. Not from trying to breastfeed, but from being overwhelmed and having a newborn.

as a LLLI leader, I am well aware of the issues women face when trying to breastfeed, most especially in families where it is not the norm.

My issue is with formula companies paying for vulture-like access encouraging women to fail. If a new mom wants to give up and use formula - many drug stores /walmarts etc. are open 24/7 and dad/grandma can go get formula/bottles.

A lot of families struggle with the cost of formula - and once you start using it you can't go back. Its a financial hardship and formula corporations want women to fail. Period. Its how they get customers.

[CTyankee]

105. What you are saying was not my or my daughters' experience at all!

We had no problems at all with the idea of breastfeeding (it was the norm for us) nor did we have "vulture like access encouraging women to fail." If anything we wanted to succeed more than anything!

You are wrong suggesting that new moms are not exhausted from trying to breast feed. They are. If the baby doesn't latch on, it goes hungry and the mother hears its cries and cannot sleep. Or their nipples can be sore to the point of pain when they attempt to breast feed, causing awful discomfort. These are real world problems, even tho they may have the breastfeeding experts handy when they call the next day after a sleepless night.

Please quit living in your world of rationalizing away women's problems breast feeding. It is NOT a rejection of nursing, it is a recognition of reality. I was able to breast feed my 2nd and 3rd baby after failure with my first. My daughter was able to succeed in nursing her 2nd and 3rd after failure with her first. My other daughter tried and tried with her only child and cried inconsolably when she had to resort to formula for her son. These are real world problems. Please do not denigrate them. Your cause is noble, but don't distort people's experience in their service.

[Coexist]

113. the vulture like access was referring to formula companies having their products

everywhere pregnant women/new moms turned.

I am fully aware of how difficult it can be to breastfeed, I have visited women with bleeding nipples who cry every time they try to get their newborn to latch.

I am not rationalizing anything away. We all have our personal experiences/anecdotes. Everyone's experience is their own and I am not denigrating anything but the corporatism that surrounds feeding infants.

I have a ton of firsthand experience with nursing moms/moms who are trying very hard to make nursing work. It doesn't always.

But Nestle is not the good guy in this scenario.

[CTyankee]

120. I never said Nestle was the good guy. Nor would my daughters who tried so hard.

Believe me, formula was a LAST resort for us, after weeks of trying and failing with the first baby. It was a bummer and made us feel like failures. At least my older daughter and I were ultimately successful. My younger daughter was feeling bad for a while but I think that is now gone (my grandson is 8 years old and doing fine).

There is no one size fits all here, as you must know from working with the moms as you say. I think you do good work, but not everyone fits a neat, easy scenario. I wish it were different, I really do!

[antigone382]

33. To me, being inundated with free samples and "swag" that basically makes me a formula advertizement

...is in itself a denial of my choice. Let me ask for formula if I want it. Don't waste my time and energy promoting it to me, or giving it to my baby when I'm asleep, when I'm in a hospital that should be focusing on my healthcare and that of my child.

I don't think anyone should be punished for choosing to use formula. I don't think women who choose, for whatever reason, to use formula should face obstacles in getting access to formula when they need it. I just don't think it's the job of a hospital to promote formula and pass it on to new mothers unasked for.

[pnwmom]

53. It absolutely does not remove any choice of a parent.

Parents are still free to feed their babies formula. They're just not getting it foisted on them by formula companies, who are implicitly telling them that their breast milk might not be enough.

[shadowrider]

54. It does remove choice. From the article:

"and document a medical reason for every bottle that a newborn receives."

No medical reason, no formula. That is not choice.

[pnwmom]

89. Wrong. There is ALWAYs a medical reason. If the mother chooses not to nurse,

then the medical reason is: Breast milk not available: baby needs nutrition. Your misconception is that the mother needs a medical reason not to breastfeed.

The patient here is the baby, and the baby needs nutrition. Thus, the baby will always have a medical need for formula, if the mother isn't providing breast milk.

[Bluerthanblue]

124. Exactly!

The article itself even says this. Mothers will not be denied formula. THEY don't need to cite a medical reason.

[vanlassie]

108. Do they search her bags when she checks in???

She's gonna have to feed that kid for 18years. It starts immediately after birth.
She is not prevented from feeding formula!!!!

[Bluerthanblue]

92. the mom doesn't need a "medical reason"- if you read the article

Mom's can request and receive formula- they don't have to have a medical reason.

The nurses are supposed to cite a medical reason to justify the formula that is used- but the mother doesn't have to cite any 'medical reason' for desiring to use formula.

When I had my first child, the nurses were not thrilled with those of us who had chosen to breast feed- for them it was often more work- babies fussing and needing to feed. The La-Leche League was a god send to me and several of my friends who were not following the established protocol. Having been on the flip side of this, I really think this is a good thing. Formula will be there should a woman decide that breastfeeding isn't for her, but encouraging her to give it a try isn't a terrible thing. It is actually a GOOD thing, because it is better for both the baby and mom. Making the decision for formula shouldn't be a "given" which for many MANY years it was.

[vanlassie]

107. She wants the nanny state to feed her child. The formula cost goes on the insurance bill.

Why doesn't she grab a six pack sometimes during the oh- I don't know....NINE months prior to giving birth, and pack that stuff with her bathrobe before she hits the hospital? Feed your OWN KID!

[riverbendviewgal]

131. To me the nanny state would be the hospitals telling women to use formula

I have very sore nipples when I started breast feeding but I also had very encouraging nurses...I got over the soreness and my milk came in...the first few days it is limited. I just get a little perturbed to hear about how formula is pushed on mothers...for convenience.

I took my babies everywhere and only had to worry about diapers and bathing them.
My older son had milk and pablum at 6 months and my younger son never had anything to eat until he was about a year old.

It worked out for me and my babies. I realize every mother is not the same. I get a little disturbed to hear that formula is pushed hard in africa where it is hard to sterilize the formula an bottles.

[cleanhippie]

165. No, it gives, for medically supported reasons, the BEST nutrition for the BABY.

In the zeal for parental choice, we often forget that what is most important is what is best for the child.

[4th law of robotics]

193. Pushing unnecessary drugs and antibiotics to avoid lawsuits is a much greater public health threat

ban those things first. Then go after formula.

[HiPointDem]

7. like bloomberg cares if proles breastfeed or not. it's about the $$$$.

[randome]

103. What money would that be?

[HiPointDem]

146. Medicaid, Medical Assistance Program, Family Health Plus, NYC Public Hospitals.

[randome]

161. Yeah, I still don't get that.

Breast feeding does not cost the state a penny. Pushing formula on patients is often paid for by insurance, Medicaid, etc.

So...

[HiPointDem]

194. medicaid is paid for by the feds and the *states* and managed by the *states*. poor people

don't have insurance. the programs i listed are funded either by the state or city.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

140. I too question his what his real motivations are

When someone as slimy as he is supports doing the right thing, you have to wonder what is in it for him

[Bluerthanblue]

8. actually Mass. has done this, and it is a good thing- Romney vetoed it

when he was gov.

New mothers aren't kept from using formula, but they aren't allowing formula companies to brain-wash and buy over new mothers. Breast feeding is really the best nourishment for a newborn, even if it is only for a while it benefits both the mother and the infant.

When hospitals give all kinds of 'swag' as the article so correctly calls it- they are in effect being a "Nanny State" for the formula companies. Nothing wrong with encouraging mothers to at least consider breast feeding.

[randome]

37. Excellently put.

I swear, people just want to be outraged for the sake of being outraged.

[bananas]

115. Great points. nt.

[SoCalDem]

11. He's fighting an uphill battle, but

for the mothers who are interested in breastfeeding, and can afford to take the time off work necessary to establish it, they don't need the formula anyway.

Many mothers use formula early-on without figuring the extreme cost of it into their budget, and after their milk dries up and it's too late to nurse, they are then wishing they had not given it up.

There are very few who "cannot" nurse their baby, but if formula is there, all ready to go and easy-as-pie, the extreme tiredness sometimes makes their decision for them.

In a perfect world, a Mom would want to, be able to nurse her baby, and cost would never enter the picture, but we do not live in a perfect world.

Who knows? Perhaps the obesity "epidemic" might even have some roots in the "Karo-syrup/carnation milk" given to Boomers, and the prepped formulas they gave their young..

The closer we get to what nature intended, the better we probably are..

[vanlassie]

109. YES, the obesity epidemic does have connections to artifical feeding.

[still_one]

12. Power has gone to this jerks head. /nt

[physioex]

28. Not necessarily, read my post above. EOM

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. A tit fascist?

[KamaAina]

16. My favorite new mom ran low on breast milk

the drugs they put her on to increase it had dire side effects.

Screw you, tiny fascist! I'll mix my formula with a 32-ounce Big Gulp!!

[villager]

17. "manufactured baby food, as we know it today, was a byproduct of the European Industrial Revolution"

"...The first mass-produced baby foods were invented by scientists/nutrition experts and manufactured in the mid-19th century by innovative companies. These were infant formulas, substitutes for mother's milk. At that time, tainted milk was often connected with infant mortality. Then, as now, there was much controversy regarding the use of artifical baby food. Ideas regarding amounts, timing, and what consitituted a healthy diet have likewise changed.

By the 1920s infant foods, which had grown to encompass ready-made baby cereals, fruits and vegetables, were promoted as convenience items. Food companies capitalized on "modern" notions of scientific feeding and the superiority of manufactured items over those homemade. Interestingly enough? American consumers did not immediately embrace these new foods. It took some very agressive marketing to win them over...."

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodbaby.html

[CTyankee]

18. No to the advertisement, but I'm worried about the parents not having something for backup.

If we had a system like Norway's, where nurses visit new moms every day after delivery to see how they are doing, I wouldn't say that. But, of course, if we had Norway's system the new moms would probably have already received ample information on breast feeding and what to do if problems are encountered before they give birth...

[shadowrider]

19. When my ex-wife was pregnant with all my kids, the Dr. gave info on

breast feeding. It was left up to her what to do. She wasn't forced to do anything one way or the other.

[CTyankee]

21. Not every new mom has that advantage. There was a tragic story a few years ago where

a young woman gave birth and, believing that "breast is best" as she put it, didn't realize her baby wasn't getting enough milk. The infant died of starvation. The poor mother was just clueless. I have the feeling that she had some mental retardation since the baby's father had visited her and the newborn and noticed that the baby was getting thinner. She was evidently alone in all this and you wonder where her family support was. someone, a mother, sister, aunt or even just a good friend, could get some help for her baby. It was in NYC, IIRC.

[xmas74]

23. When I had my child

the hospital brought in a lactation specialist to work with me while still a patient. This was done as a service of the hospital-the lactation specialist spoke to every mother, even those who did not breast feed. Before I left she gave me info for Le Leche League. I called and a member actually came to my house, free of charge, my first week home, to be sure that I had the help I needed. (My child was a bit lazy at latching.)

A coworker and his wife had a baby at the same hospital on the 4th of July. He said that many of the nurses employed at that hospital are now certified as lactation specialists. (He recognized a few of them as recent graduates from our local university-they even spoke with his wife about how to certify herself, since she is a nursing student.) And he said that, though LLL is no longer in this county, they gave him info about the nearest group (25 minutes from here) as a matter of course. He said that he called for his wife and within a day they had already called back, asking if she would like a free consultation in their home or if they'd like to meet other local moms who are also nursing.

The info is out there. The difference is in how it's presented. (FWIW-I live in a smallish town-about 25,000-and they are really pushing breast feeding here. The old nurses who used to push bottles at the babies when mom slept have since retired and formula is only given if mom signs a consent form.)

[HopeHoops]

31. Good. Unless a mother is incapable of breast feeding, that's the best way to raise a baby.

The formula companies are disgusting in their propaganda, but none is worse than Nestle.

[CTyankee]

86. sometimes, tho, women with the best of intentions, go thru a LOT of torment when the

baby doesn't latch or the nipple is too flat and large. It makes for a diffiicult situation. The baby cries and cries, the parents are exhausted from lack of sleep, and nothing gets accomplished. What do you do in that circumstance? It's a problem...

[HopeHoops]

154. I'd file that under "incapable" even though it doesn't mean she's not producing milk.

I was incapable of feeding ANY of our kids, even with my wife's own pumped milk. They just wouldn't take it from me.

[HappyMe]

32. sigh! I don't think the mayor

of any city has anything to say about whether someone wants to breastfeed or not.
Keep your laws off of my boobs and baby.

[shadowrider]

35. .

[randome]

40. He isn't saying anything of the sort.

He's trying to prevent hospitals from pushing formula. Anyone reading the article can see that.

But because it's evil Mayor Bloomberg, it MUST be evil!!!

[HappyMe]

44. And all I said said was he shouldn't have

anything to say about formula. My baby, my decision.

I happen to think Bloomberg is an okay mayor.

I guess a woman deciding to not breastfeed is evil!!11

[randome]

46. No one is taking anyone's rights away!

What don't you get about that? A mother can use formula or she can breast feed. The only thing that has changed is that the hospitals no longer can 'push' formula as much. In other words, they need to stop advertising on behalf of the formula companies.

No one's rights are in any way being taken away.

[vanlassie]

104. So we're all good then. The mayor DIDN"T say you have to breastfeed!

[randome]

118. You would think so, wouldn't you?

[vanlassie]

122. Yep

[HockeyMom]

38. As a Mom who also worked for an Infant Formula Company

Unless the woman really WANTS to breastfeed, it will not work. In the early days and weeks, you have nurse round the clock if the infant wants to. The less you nurse the more the milk supply will dry up. My sister-in-law, who had her children a decade before mine, thought you could put a breastfeed a newborn on a "schedule", as in every 4 hours. Sorry, but NO. That will dry up the milk, same as for early food feeding.

While women should be ENCOURAGED to nurse, if they don't want to, or have the time or patience, all the good intentions will be to no avail.

However, once you do get through those difficult early weeks and months, if becomes very, very easy, and convenient. I learned after my daughter weaned herself that she not only had cow, but soy, allergies, which she still does at 28 years old. Poor Moms who want to bottle feed in a situation like that. I did find, however, after weaning and through her TEENAGE years, that she was able to tolerate GOATS Milk. She uses those products today in adulthood.

[LisaL]

39. First big sodas, now this.

What's next?

[physioex]

79. What about the sodas?

[Comrade_McKenzie]

42. This is not about which is better. This is about freedom of choice. nt

[shadowrider]

45. Absolutely correct n/t

[eShirl]

47. +1

[HockeyMom]

51. Absolutely

I refused the free formula from work, and refused the free formula in the hospital.

[pnwmom]

52. No one's going after moms. They're making it harder for corporations to pitch

formula to new mothers, and formula isn't as good for most babies. Doctors are still free to recommend it, and mothers are still free to use it.

But if anyone deserves a "nanny state," it is newborns.

[gollygee]

100. "If anyone deserves a 'nanny state,' it is newborns."

Love it!

[TheKentuckian]

127. Medical necessity says otherwise

Don't want the formula companies pushing their wares? Fine but if mom asks for formula the only question should be if she has any preference and what the choices are.

[pnwmom]

130. Nutrition is a medical necessity. All a doctor has to say

is that the baby needs formula for nutritional purposes. And if the mother doesn't choose to breastfeed, then the baby does need formula.

I agree that the decision is completely up to the mother. But the law doesn't limit the mother's choice. It just limits a formula company's marketing tool.

[seabeyond]

58. i think this is wrong for a number of reasons. nt

[randome]

60. So you think mothers SHOULD be encouraged to use formula?

Because that has been the status quo, apparently.

[seabeyond]

61. right. that is what i said. really rollin eyes. this is rw argument and so fuckin

tired of it.

you dont agree so that means you think.... bullshit.

[IndyJones]

149. Maybe it depends upon which hospital, because the hospital where I gave birth to my three boys,

I was encouraged to breastfeed. My peds were the Dr. Sears docs and I gave birth to my kids at Hoag. They had me attending b/f'ing classes prior to giving birth. I wasn't just offered formula. The nurses had me b/f'ing around the clock the entire time I was in the hospital. So maybe here where I live, this just isn't an issue. So having the mayor get involved seems odd to me. But maybe in NYC, the nurses and hosptials are different?

[randome]

160. Yeah, I'm thinking it's different in NYC for some reason.

And it is odd for a mayor to get involved. But, hey, anything to keep a check on corporate power should not be sneered at so casually, as some have on this thread.

[vanlassie]

200. Equal, no. Decisions, yes.

[kickysnana]

62. I always cast my vote for a Mayor who thinks he has a legal say in my baby feeding decidions. n/t

[randome]

63. Read the thread.

And the article. No one is taking away anyone's rights.

[kickysnana]

78. Ah, grasshopper you have a lot to learn n/t

[Cairycat]

64. This about hospitals, doctors and nurses not being marketing agents

for the formula manufacturers, plain and simple. That's all! Mothers will still have access to formula. It's just that medical personnel will no longer be able to advertise for it via sample bags and various advertising gew-gaws.

And for pity's sake, the way some posters are writing, you'd think there were no stores where parents could buy formula. In most areas, there are many, many stores, open as many as 24 hours a day, where one can purchase formula! Need some, go out and get some, just like with every other consumer product on the planet!

The one and only reason formula manufacturers want hospitals to push these sample bags and prominently display these lanyards and other crap, is that it increases sales for them. There is absolutely no reason for them to do otherwise. Not only is that common sense, but studies have proven that this is so.

Women who want to breastfeed should be able to without interference from the formula manufacturers. Women who don't want to breastfeed should understand the health consequences of their choice for their babies and for themselves, and then buy their own damn formula and not expect the hospitals to supply endless "freebies" (which they will eventually pay for in higher formula costs).

[randome]

67. -

[physioex]

81. Way to many people here don't understand..

These formulas are a bonanza for doctors free vacations, golf outings, and expensive dinners.

[gollygee]

90. A nurse told me

they always open a new little bottle of formula, even if just a small amount had been used, because they get points for how many bottles they use. They have huge incentives to use as much formula as possible.

The marketing has to be stopped.

[Cairycat]

188. If you glance at the article, you will see

that formula fed babies will still get formula in the hospital. But mothers won't be sent home with a "gift" bag. They will have to make arrangements to feed their babies at home. Just like the breastfeeding mothers. Who are, after all, providing their babies' food in the hospital - without compensation! Think of that!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

65. So a hungry infant has to wait for formula to be available

while a busy nurse has to unlock then relock a cabinet, sign in and out?

This is outrageous. Wonder how he feels about circumcision. Will that be
next?

This is the moster that's created when term limits are changed to allow one
egomaniac to remain in power.

[Cairycat]

71. The formula fed baby will learn about waiting for food anyway

There will almost certainly be a time when a bottle-fed baby will have to wait while a bottle is prepared and possibly warmed.

Hospital procedures will get worked out quite quickly, I'm sure. Maybe it will make nurses less apt to feed formula to a baby whose mother wants to exclusively breastfeed. That happens very often and many mothers are not happy about the permanent changes to their babies' digestive systems caused by that.

[physioex]

76. Pure sensationalism....That isn't going to happen. EOM

[HockeyMom]

68. Adoption

What about women who give birth but are giving up their babies for adoption? They must nurse them?

[Cairycat]

70. Actually, it's possible for adoptive mothers to nurse

but whether or not that's their choice, you would think that if adoption is planned, arrangements to have formula on hand if needed, would be made. Formula is still available for babies who are not breastfed, for whatever reason. There is no limitation on formula, merely on its advertising.

[mzteris]

84. I wish I had known that.

BF would have been the best thing possible for the baby.

But even I did they probably wouldn't have let me seeing as he was still a foster baby at the time and they were already worried about the whole "bonding" issue.

However, with his asthma and eczema and weight issues (a large part of which I believe is associated with the enriched baby formula they made me use as he was a preemie. He gained too much weight too fast. . . ) I think BF would have made him a healthier person.

[IndyJones]

72. The choice to breastfeed or formula feed is up to the mother, not Mayor Bloomberg.

No medical reason is necessary. Is he saying that a medical reason has to be given or no formula will be provided? Doesn't he have anything better to do?

I am pro breastfeeding and did with my own kids, but that was my decision.

Why is a medical reason necessary? Is the mom saying, because that's what I choose to do a medical reason?

[Cairycat]

74. If an action has medical consequences, shouldn't there be a medical reason for the action?

Even one bottle of formula can make permanent changes in the baby's gut and digestive system. It can set a baby up for allergies. Here is my reference: http://www.naba-breastfeeding.org/images/Just%20One%20Bottle.pdf

In too many hospitals, doctors and nurses treat the giving of formula to breastfed babies far too casually. The choices of those breastfeeding exclusively need to be respected.

Parents are still completely free to choose human milk or formula.

[IndyJones]

85. I am well aware of the benefits and downfalls. It is not a government official's place to make it

a medical necessity to breastfeed vs bottle feed. That is the mother's choice.

Should we need medical reasons for feeding choices after the breastmilk/formula stage? No.

[randome]

102. There is no 'medical necessity' for the mother

There is a requirement for a nurse to document that a mother prefers formula over breast feeding.

Case closed, IMO.

[IndyJones]

114. Then why does the article state that a medical reason must be documented?

Is that a false statement in the article?

[randome]

116. A 'medical reason' can likely be a note by the nurse.

Nothing more. If a mother prefers formula, then clearly the baby will starve. That's 'medical necessity'.

[IndyJones]

117. Proving that this is a ridiculous attempt to interfere in something that is no one's decison

other than the mother.

[randome]

121. That's the point.

Take away the heavy advertising for formulas and let the mothers decide! Take away the incentive of nurses to push the corporations' formulas and let the mothers decide!

That's how I see it. And, apparently, many others on this thread do, also.

[IndyJones]

129. So the presumption is that mothers are too stupid to decide for themselves so the gummament

has to step in and take away the nurses' incentives? I'm pretty sure most of us mothers made the breastfeeding vs formula decision prior to giving birth. And many tried and couldn't breastfeed. Moms are smart enough to decide without Bloomberg's two cents.

I get what you're saying, but I am pretty confident that most of us are smart enough to decide on our own before entering a NYC hospital to give birth. Don't you agree?

[randome]

132. I DO agree.

As someone else pointed out, however, giving birth is quite a strain and mothers could probably do without the marketing hype to use some corporate formula at a time when they might be under a great emotional strain.

There is a reason corporations push their formulas. They want to take advantage of a 'customer' who is in a potentially receptive state.

I'm not at all advocating 'protecting' women from themselves. All I'm saying is leave the marketing bullshit out of the equation. That's why I don't see this as a big deal.

[vanlassie]

133. well, Indy, that's the point.

There is a documented "gap" between the number of mothers entering the hospital intending to breastfeed, and the number leaving breastfeeding.

>>Nearly 90 percent of California mothers have made the decision to exclusively breastfeed, yet only half are breastfeeding exclusively upon hospital discharge. Breastfeeding success is dependant on the support of hospital staff and standards of care within the hospital during those first critical 24 to 72 hours. If exclusive breastfeeding is undermined in the hospital it is next to impossible for mothers to sustain exclusive breastfeeding when they go home.<<

http://www.calwic.org/news-a-publications/wic-blog/142-study-shows-breastfeeding-gap-still-exists-in-hospitals-serving-poor-ethnic-women

As much as you and others want to make it "the government is taking away women's rights!" the facts are otherwise. This is a public health issue, and it affects all of us. Please don't try to convince us that is is something else. It is the last straw to try to get hospitals to DO THEIR JOBS. Trust me, they have had lots of warnings.

[IndyJones]

142. I don't think they are taking away anyone's rights. I appreciate the links of information

you provided. I did not realize there was such a gap. Thank you for the information.

[HockeyMom]

75. +1000

Bottle feed one and breastfed the other, CHOICE.

[WillowTree]

80. This guy's totally out of control.

Still, New Yorkers don't seem to mind, I guess. I'd be campaigning and voting to get this control freak out of office and out of town if I lived there or he "ruled" here.

[HuckleB]

98. Yeah, he's just the worst Republican around?

Oh, wait. Hmmm.

[LuckyStrykes]

82. First, they came for the smokers. But I did nothing... n/t

[HuckleB]

97. .

[gollygee]

88. I don't think they should be handing out the free formula diaper bags, but OTOH I don't think

they should question someone who requests formula either.

They should NOT make a hospital room a marketing zone. So the free "gift" bags should be out of there. But there should be no questions asked if a mom says she wants some formula for her baby.

So I guess I have a mixed response.

(Exclusively breastfed both of mine.)

[jmowreader]

94. Sometimes it's hard to remember Bloomberg is a Republican

Aren't we Democrats supposed to be the ones pushing the nanny state?

[HuckleB]

96. What? A Republican versus "Big Pharma?"

Hmmm. What side to take? Hmmmmmm.

[CTyankee]

106. I thought the same thing...what's wrong with this picture...

[Honeycombe8]

110. Okay, he's losing it now. What's wrong with him???? He shouldn't be elected again.

Methinks that HE thinks that he has become a Lord over a fiefdom.

[emilyg]

112. Bloomberg - strange.

[Cairycat]

119. "Document a medical reason for every bottle" is about medical personnel being ACCOUNTABLE

for the bottles that are given. It is not to make parents have to come up with a medical reason. Too often bottles are given to breastfed babies, even without the parents' knowledge or consent. THAT is the problem that provision is for. I know the nurses were determined to give my youngest a bottle, fortunately I was informed and determined (and awake enough after a c-section with general anesthesia!) to prevent that. But without my advocacy, he would have been given formula.

Parents are still completely free to choose formula. No one is forcing anyone to breastfeed. Where in the article or anywhere else do you see that the choice is in any way restricted? It's not.

The article's language is loaded. It's not a matter of "hiding". It's a matter of not having the advertising everywhere you look on the maternity ward.

[redqueen]

189. I'm starting to wonder if Murdoch has a stake in Nestle or something.

Two of his outlets are spinning this from hell to breakfast.

[MichiganVote]

123. Ok, so say you're the Mayor of big major NYC...

Do you:

A. DO the job you have of making the city safe or safer?

B. DO the job you have of maintaining economic stability for the city?

C. DO the job you have of making sure managers are in place for city services?

D. DO the job you have of working through anti-crime programs or policies?

E. DO the job you DON'T have of monitoring the boobs of mothers who have given birth?

Nanny state. EOM.

[TBF]

125. More of the same - old white men trying to control everything women do. nt

[RKP5637]

126. Exactly!!! And that plus a power trip! n/t

[RKP5637]

128. Each day gets a little weirder. n/t

[missingthebigdog]

135. This policy just changes default behavior, and saves the gov't $

Currently, the default assumption in many hospitals is that a newborn will be bottle-fed. Why shouldn't breastfeeding be the default. It doesn't take away a mom's right to choose formula, it just keeps the choice from being made for her.

A can of powdered formula is about $24.00, and babies need about ten per month. Families that can't afford the $240.00, on top of diapers, etc., rely on the WIC program to pay for it.

WIC is a wonderful program, but it is an absolute cash cow for formula companies. I think it is ridiculous that we allow an industry access to a vulnerable population, and essentially allow them to make their product a necessity of life when it needn't be.

[madrchsod]

136. who gave him the power over a families personal decisions on their baby?

what next...following each child so they will be raised according to bloomberg`s personal beliefs?

[vanlassie]

137. That's a bit of a stretch.

Nobody is saying they have to do anything. Power over their decisions? Please.

[Alduin]

145. Oh good god.

[aquart]

152. He's right.

Stop drumming up customers for Nestle.

[B2G]

155. Will she be limited to producing 16 oz.?

[Jennicut]

157. So stupid. I tried breastfeeding and my baby did not take to it.

We both got no sleep and she lost weight. My doctor told me to give her formula because she lost weight. I never bothered to try with my second one. Both my daughters are now 7 and 8 and perfectly healthy. They were the top students in their classes this past school year. They did ballet. They were just fine. It just isn't for everyone. It doesn't work out for every mother and for many is not practical with work. Govt. needs to support new mothers, not undermine them.

[TwilightGardener]

158. No, no, no. Your children are sickly, scrawny, less intelligent, full of allergies,

and maladjusted for lack of proper bonding. Stick with the script, dammit.

[Jennicut]

163. I know.

The funny thing is, my daughters don't have one allergy. I had formula as a baby too. My mother had the same issue as me and I was losing weight. We are all doomed! It should be a personal choice. I wish men would stop interfering with women's rights to make their own choices in life.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

159. My wife breastfed our daughter

and I was fully supportive of it (particularly since it was FREE) but this is a bit too much IMHO.

[Arkana]

162. Next thing you know he'll be mandating that everyone wear name tags.

Like that episode of Seinfeld where Lloyd Braun proposes the same thing to Mayor Dinkins.

[slackmaster]

167. Or have numbers tattooed on their bodies

[randome]

164. I wish some of these late posters would bother to peruse the rest of the thread.

This is not taking anyone's rights away. It's taking away the rights of corporations to push their formulas on patients. Forget your personal feelings about Bloomberg, a casual reading shows it's nothing more sinister than that.

[B2G]

172. I don't need Nanny Bloomberg dictating that I receive a lecture

everytime I CHOOSE to feed my newborn a bottle of formula.

My hormonal, sore ass would go postal.

[redqueen]

181. It is a lost cause.

The media spin (certainly not corporate-backed, I'm sure) has been issued, and facts are boring and hard to understand.

[AzDar]

166. Breast v. bottle is not the issue here...the issue is that Bloomberg should not be

sticking his nose into these matters at ALL.

[Remmah2]

169. He certainly needs to review his job description. nt

nt

[randome]

171. Who should be responsible for putting checks on corporate advertising if not a public official?

Do the hospitals, doctors and nurses get payoffs when they push one formula over another? From upthread, it sounds like they do.

[B2G]

173. He's not doing this because of corporate advertising

He's an out of control politician who thinks he knows what best for everyone and he will do his damndest to inflict his will on everyone in every way he can.

Many women cannot breast feed for a variety of reasons. Medications, pyschological reasons, their milk just doesn't come in... The last thing they need is a guilt trip handed to them on top of everything else.

Or how about they just don't fucking want to? Whatever happened to 'her body, her choice'?

[randome]

174. No one is taking anyone's choice away.

Unless you think the corporations should have the 'choice' of pushing formulas on hospital patients.

Breast feeding versus formula is up to the mother to decide. Bloomberg's actions just level the playing field so it remains that way without corporate influence being part of the equation.

Love him or hate him, this is a good move.

[B2G]

175. This isn't about corporations, you are extrapolating that to boost your argument

I've read all of the articles. Not once was corporate influence mentioned.

This is no different than dictating a woman get an ultrasound before an abortion so she's 'educated' about her choice. I assume you have a big problem with that no doubt.

[randome]

177. Are you just taking contrary positions to everything I say?

How is any mother being forced to do anything? Explain that, please.

[B2G]

179. They are being forced to listen to a lecture

because of their choice. And no doubt made to feel shitty about it.

[randome]

180. I saw nothing mentioned about a lecture.

Any 'documentation' that is required is likely just a note in the chart by a nurse that the mother prefers formula. That's the only 'medical necessity' that counts.

I don't see why anyone would feel shitty about that. Let the mother choose without having corporate propaganda part of the decision.

[B2G]

184. From the article in the OP

Under Latch On NYC, new mothers who want formula won’t be denied it, but hospitals will keep infant formula in out-of-the-way secure storerooms or in locked boxes like those used to dispense and track medications.

With each bottle a mother requests and receives, she’ll also get a talking-to. Staffers will explain why she should offer the breast instead.

“It’s the patient’s choice,” said Allison Walsh, of Beth Israel Medical Center. “But it’s our job to educate them on the best option.”

[redqueen]

187. Since when is trash from the Post considered to be worth anything? nt

[still_one]

176. This is pure bloomberg nonesense. He is a power hungry ass. He dictated a similar thing with the

size of sodas that could be sold

He is fitting right in with the repukes that he supports, romney and brown, telling people he knows what is good for them

screw him

[randome]

178. What kind of 'dictation' is taking place?

No one is being forced to do anything. The corporations are trying to tell the hospitals they know what's best for newborns so I think it's a good idea to restrict their influence.

A mother can still decide if she wants to breast feed or use formula. No one is taking that choice away.

I think you're letting your hatred of Bloomberg cloud your judgment.

[still_one]

196. As far as I know no nurse or doctor tells a mom they must use formula. In fact they try to

Encourage them to breast feed if they can.

But hey, I don't live in New York, so not my problem

[spin]

182. Mayor Nanny hates indiviudal freedoms. ...

I expect that soon he will pass a law that every citizen in his kingdom of New York City has to exercise for an hour each day. Perhaps soon he will limit the horsepower of cars sold in NYC so that they can't exceed the speed limit and also require everybody to buy broccoli and spinach weekly.

I have no problem with educating the public on lifestyle but we do live in a supposedly free nation.

[frylock]

185. nobody is denying babies their formula ffs..

i know engaging in a 2-minute hate is far more satisfying, but read the fucking article before siding with the corporations in your zeal to hate on bloomberg. this is a good thing.

[redqueen]

186. Butbutbut MURDOCH SAID!!!!

I'm Fucking astounded, honestly.

This story is so obviously being spun six ways to Sunday.

W. T. F.

[4th law of robotics]

192. Just take the kids at birth and raise them until they're 21

Don't half-ass this nanny-state thing. Embrace it.

Parents aren't perfect. Only the Mayor's office is fit to decide how people live.

[Glassunion]

195. What's next?

To battle childhood obesity he will limit breast production to no more than 16 ounces and no free re-fills?

[markpkessinger]

197. I am generally skeptical of invocations of "nanny state" complaints . . .

. . . because -- at least up until now -- I have generally seen those complaints as little more than a conservative dog whistle used to whip the right into a frenzy. But even for an old lefty like me there are limits to the areas I think government has any business getting involved in, and this is over the line for me (as is the push to ban smoking in city parks, even though I'm a non-smoker who lost both parents to lung cancer from smoking). In this case, maybe the appropriate term isn't "nanny state" but "nursemaid state."

But then, I haven't forgiven the city council (including Christine Quinn, who I like on so many other issues) for permitting Bloomberg his one-time exemption from term limits, which NYC voters had approved in TWO CONSECUTIVE BALLOT REFERENDUMS. The result is we now have our very own little Napoleon at the helm of the city (about the same height, too, and with the same complex).

I am not opposed to encouraging breast feeding (when possible, that is). If they want to do a blitz of public service ads encouraging it, great -- go for it. I am, however, totally opposed to mayor-mandated "talks" by health care professionals with mothers who, for whatever reason, opt not to breast feed. This is a decision that should be made by the mother in consultation with her neo-natal/pediatric care practitioners. It is not something the city has any business getting involved in.

[vanlassie]

199. Well then, you will be glad to know

this was a dog whistle. There are NO lectures required. None. Nada.

[hughee99]

198. Is it just me, or does he seem overly interested in what people are drinking. n/t

[jpbollma]

202. He's really had some odd ideas lately.

[jberryhill]

203. Just stop hiding the breasts