If 39% of Americans approve of Trump,

[guillaumeb]

does that mean that 39% approve of serial adultery, serial molestation, serial sexual assault, serial theft of services, and serial nastiness?

Or are a certain percent of that 39% simply totally misinformed?

Trump makes George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan look competent, and that is not an easy task. So are 39% of the US electorate simply uninformed and unteachable?

[JI7]

1. They approve of bigotry, misogyny, hated of lgbt ert

[guillaumeb]

2. Which is disturbing and sad.

And speaks badly of 39% of US voters.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. It means those things don't bother them.

"If 39% of Americans approve of Trump, does that mean that 39% approve of serial adultery, serial molestation, serial sexual assault, serial theft of services, and serial nastiness? "

It means those things don't bother them as long as they feel they aren't personally affected.


With this reasonably good economy a normal president's approval ratings would be at least ten points higher.

[guillaumeb]

12. Agreed on the last point,

but the fact that 39% are unaware or do not care is a sad indictment of 39% of the voting population. So when the GOP attempts t speak of values and values voters, we must remind them of this.

[yallerdawg]

49. Many Americans live their lives in self-confirming echo chambers.

A Fox News viewer has NO IDEA what MSNBC and CNN are pumping out day and night.

Just like we have no idea what proscribed and forbidden media FOR US is pumping out day and night - Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars.

Even though we are informed of the truth that gives us no credibility in that world dominated by RWNJ propaganda!

[guillaumeb]

51. True.

Even on the left, there are some who have no idea about the variety of Democrats that there are, including Democrats of faith.

[Eliot Rosewater]

53. Can women still have sex without permission from deplorables? Yes? Well then THAT

is why they will tolerate ANYTHING.

[Moostache]

4. Republicans do no really care about ANYTHING other than protecting tax cuts to the rich. PERIOD.

They are devoid of a soul and without moral compass or morals period.
Fuck them and their devoted little toadies that traffic in racism, misogyny and hate.
Which is to say, Fuck Republicans in general.

[dchill]

5. Well, yes.

[unblock]

6. Mostly they approve of god and church and America and foxnews and they Republican Party

and it's all tied together in their minds.

In order to make it all add up, they dismiss all of Donnie's scandals. Not true, everyone does it, witch hunt, Hillary would be worse, mountain out of molehill, whatever.

They are tribal partisans first and foremost

[guillaumeb]

13. And the GOP is a one party group in a multi-party system.

which is why they are willing to suppress votes and voters.

[Eliot Rosewater]

54. I know someone who approves of god, he would puke mightily if he read what you said although I

know you didnt mean it that way.

These horrible people do NOT approve or care about god AT ALL.

There are ten million separate cases of proof of that.

[mountain grammy]

7. Stupidity is strong in America

and this is stupidity.. watch the focus group of "Christian" women watching the Stormy interview. Trump is a gift from god, dontchaknow. I watched for about 20 seconds and felt my brain freezing. Like I said, stupidity.

[Wellstone ruled]

17. Caught that,what the hell is wrong with people.

It did make for good divisive TV for the Cable Shows.

Tried to find the Methodology for a couple of those so called Polls,and the Polling Companies appeared to have it under lock and key.

Done polling,and if you Taylor to a client,ABC,NBC,CNN or CBS,you just cash the check and give them what they want. Yes,desired outcome,okay.

[guillaumeb]

23. Better to freeze the brain with iced cream.

[mountain grammy]

34. For sure

[KPN]

8. No, it means that they are okay with

anything that doesn't directly and obviously affect them personally in a negative way so long as their interests/causes are being advanced. It means that they don't really care about other people.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Except, KPN, Those Things They IMAGINE Affect Them

Like muslims, or immigrants, or black people getting a break to get into college, or somehow, food stamps and women controlling their own bodies.

They conjure up some reason why those things affect them personally, and then casually dismiss those things that don't, but really don't matter.

What they care about is mostly illusion.

[guillaumeb]

20. A nice point.

[KPN]

48. There is that as well, yes. There are two

primary segments, those who care about, as you aptly characterized, illusions; and those who don't care about other people so long as they've got or are getting what they want. And they aren't mutually exclusive or necessarily a subset of the other.

[guillaumeb]

14. It is difficult to avoid that conclusion.

[hack89]

9. I personally know a bunch though my wife's extended family

they are for the most case none of those. They are simply working poor that were hammered in the great recession, left behind in the recovery (mainly because they live in semi-rural areas) and are desperate to return to the way things were 10 years ago. They felt that Hillary and DC ignored them. They don't care about Trump the man. They think that he is the only one who cares about them and that is all that matters. They are desperate.

[guillaumeb]

15. But even accepting all of that,

that they feel that a con man cares about them speaks to their desperation and their inability to process some types of information.

[hack89]

18. Or is says a lot about the choice they had to make.

Trump or Hillary - that was the choice. Hillary was not talking to them and she paid the price.

[guillaumeb]

21. But by accepting what they apparently accepted about Trump,

they are implicitly or unwittingly normalizing the behavior that Trump demonstrates every day of his life. So any talk about values must be seen for what it is.

[trotsky]

11. You need to understand that people are far more complex than your black-and-white portrayal.

Many Trump supporters have just one core issue that they trust he will defend to the end. Might be tax cuts. Might be building the wall. Might be the travel ban. Who knows. That ONE issue is so important to them, they'll give him a pass on a lot of other things.

39% percent of Americans are not bigots, or necessarily misinformed. In our polarized, two-party political system, we are going to get results like this.

[vi5]

16. "39% percent of Americans are not bigots"

But going by your "core issue" theory, at the most generous and kind estimation they are o.k. with bigotry if it gets them that core issue and I'd argue there's not much daylight between that and outright bigotry.

[guillaumeb]

22. Agreed.

They are willing to accept these things if it is in their perceived self-interest. They are no better. A closet bigot is no better than a robed KKK member.

[vi5]

39. In the mid 90's....

I lived in an apartment next to a full-on neo nazi, racist skinhead.

The thing is, day to day this dude was actually a much nicer and more pleasant person to encounter and deal with on a casual neighborly basis than most regular old "conservatives" I know of who would never in a million years consider themselves racist. Like, to the point where he would help the old African American lady upstairs with her groceries, joke around with and throw a football with the Mexican boy 2 apartments over. Things that my supposedly nice, Republican friends/relatives/neighbors, etc. would never in a million years do. And to be honest with you, he talked much less about anything racist or offensive or politically repulsive than the aforementioned "mainstream" Republicans.

[trotsky]

24. Not understanding the issues fully is also at play here.

Keep in mind, DU represents only a tiny fraction of the population. Most people really don't think very deeply about politics. They don't understand how a cake baker refusing service is bigotry. They don't understand how being opposed to marriage equality is bigotry. It's not that they're OK with it, they literally don't understand the problem.

[vi5]

37. The thing is...

..those examples and others like them are less about understanding the issues and more with not understanding how that's bigotry. I would guess that almost everyone who is a bigot, racist, homophobe, anti-semite, sexist, misogynist, etc. probably wouldn't in a million years think of themselves as such. And it's not because they don't understand the issues it's that they just don't want to admit that they are those things.

I would say if you sat down and explained any of this stuff, in calm, rational, intelligent terms to this 39% of the people in question, that maybe....MAYBE you'd peel off 3-4% of them. The rest would not budge, still hold bigoted views, and still would not admit to themselves or anyone else that their feelings and opinions were bigoted.

[trotsky]

38. Nope, I believe some people really don't understand what is bigoted.

And given the right circumstances, I bet you could pull off a lot more than 3-4%. Probably more like 10-20%.

[vi5]

40. Than you are a nice, more optimistic person than I am.

Good for you. It's just been a long time and a lot of life experiences that have led me away from near that level of optimism.

[trotsky]

41. What about an experience we share - the acceptance of marriage equality?

It went from like 90% disapproval to majority approval in less than a generation. People got informed, and their views changed. Do you think 90% of Americans were bigots in 1990? (or whenever)

[vi5]

43. Good point...

...but I would say that while 90% of those people weren't bigots, 39% of them probably were and still are despite more knowledge and information and what have you being readily available.

And maybe you're right maybe it's not ALL 39% who are genuine bigots but I would say a large chunk of that number are and would be, even in the face of being informed.

[guillaumeb]

19. We agree that people ARE complex.

And we apparently agree that people act from a variety of motives.

The 1% are concerned with tax cuts for the 1%.
Wall builders are concerned about an opportunity to build.
But if anyone accepts the racism and Islamophobia and misogyny and general anti-social behavior as the price of obtaining their personal objective, this acceptance serves to normalize that behavior.

[trotsky]

25. Thank you for amending and qualifying your statement with "*if* anyone accepts..."

because I'd say that for a large number of them, they don't because they don't understand the big picture.

[guillaumeb]

27. What do you feel they misunderstand?

[trotsky]

42. They don't understand how certain policies affect others. n/t

[Dave Starsky]

31. They are one issue: Trump expresses their darkest feelings.

He grabs pussies.
He's building a wall to keep the dark people out.
He makes all of the bad taxes go away.
He talks about all of this, and he suffers no consequences. No one restrains him. No one ever challenges him on any of it.

They wish they could be like that.

[trotsky]

32. No, "they" aren't all like that.

I agree that there are plenty of deplorables who support Trump. But not all are. Many simply don't understand the big picture.

[Dave Starsky]

45. Yes, they are all like that.

Please give me real life examples of people who still support this clown for any reason other than what I cited.

[trotsky]

46. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I will not agree with your effort to write off such a large number of people with your simplistic notions. And I will not give you any of the names of the people I know who don't fit into your box - go ahead and make whatever you will of that. Because I know you will.

[Dave Starsky]

47. I don't want or need names. Just a realistic example.

You can provide none, because there are none.

[trotsky]

58. Well then here's your realistic example: my aunt.

She's got blinders on when it comes to the abortion issue. She can't see anything other than "abortion is murder." Since she thinks it's murder, that's worse than anything else Trump might be doing, so she gives him a pass on all the other shit.

She is otherwise a kind, loving, and surprisingly tolerant woman. But she's religiously insane on abortion. Go ahead, lump her in the 39% who are all irredeemable bigots in your view.

[democratisphere]

26. The 39% are redumbliCONs and as long as they win, anything goes!

[Whiskeytide]

28. I got into an argument with a Trump guy...

... a couple of weeks ago, and it was typical until he said “how about all those people Clinton had killed? Huh? What about that?”

I just shook my head and said “I can’t simplify my positions enough to get down to your level. Sorry”.

25% of people will believe anything they read. Trumps other 14% are the genuine assholes among us. That’s his 39%.

[guillaumeb]

29. Did he also bring up Pizzagate?

Agreed, that information is in critically short supply for many Trump voters.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

30. I wouldn't lump "serial adultery" in with ...

... serial molestation, serial sexual assault, serial theft of services.

One is a family issue. The others are crimes.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

33. "are 39% of the US electorate simply uninformed and unteachable"?

Yes, and just plain stupid, racist, misogynistic shitstains.

[nature-lover]

35. Fox is responsible for a large % of this misinformation.

Most viewers believe that they are hearing real news. Much easier to be lead by emotion than intellect for those viewers.

[Different Drummer]

55. +1. n/t

[moondust]

36. Implicitly approve.

I think the overriding issue for many of them is that they know this is the closest they will ever get to having a Confederate President with Confederate values--and he's a Northerner! They know he would own slaves and not have to pay them if he could only get away with it; sitting around on his gilded toilet all day counting all the money the little people are making for him--much like the old slave owners on the plantation.

[rzemanfl]

44. I am starting to think ten percent or so of them are people who are afraid

to say anything bad about Drumpf for fear of ending up in re-education camps or worse. Sadly, I am just paranoid enough to wonder if they may be right.

[Mr. Ected]

50. No, it doesn't mean that at all

It means that we have two parties and they identify with Republicans and not Democrats. It may be generational. It may be location. It may mean their churches influence them, or their television news network, or their favorite radio station presents only their side of the argument. It may mean that they vote and then pay no attention to politics unless it directly affects them, in which case they refer to all of the points above to guide them.

I live in a rural area in Georgia. There are literally so few liberals here that to be one makes you feel like an outcast. I carry on superficial relationships with dozens upon dozens of these people. If you don't live in deep red, you can't realistically imagine how complicated it is to be a liberal here. Do I condone their beliefs? The fuck I do. Can I change minds? Could you? Could they change yours?

A fairly humorous anecdote: a local county is holding elections for county coroner. There are 3 candidates. Each represents themselves as a Republican. Their signs are hilarious: "The only true conservative". "More conservative than the others". "Lifelong conservative". Knowing that none of that matters, but it gets the voters' blood churning.

[guillaumeb]

52. At least the voters have a choice of candidates.

Right, farther right, and over the edge right. Choice is a great thing.

I agree with your first paragraph. It is educational, and cultural, and social, and media centered.

My view, as one who moved to the Chicago area at 16, is that the American civil war is still being fought on social and economic issues.

[RainCaster]

56. who says that 39% is an accurate value? Cambridge Analytica?

Inquiring minds want to know

[guillaumeb]

57. The number was referenced in numerous posts today.

But no matter the exact number, the same questions apply.