CNN contributor Bakari Sellers: Bernie 2020 died 4/4/18

[Exotica]

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/cnn-contributor-bakari-sellers-bernie-2020-died-4-4-18/

Democratic political strategist and CNN contributor Bakari Sellers stuck a fork in Sen. Bernie Sanders’ presidential ambitions.

The Vermont independent dismissed former President Barack Obama as a charismatic lightweight during a speech in Jackson, Mississippi, on the 50th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination.

“The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure,” Sanders said. “People sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy.”

Sanders blamed Obama for the Democratic Party’s record number of legislative losses, and Sellers said that attack on the first black U.S. president on that historically significant date should doom Sanders in Democratic primaries.

Sanders, who eventually lost his Democratic primary race against Hillary Clinton, was criticized during his presidential campaign for a failure to connect with black voters.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Bernie Sanders: National Democratic Party Has Been A "Failure" For The Last 15 Years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=tTFE9wWf5jc

[NCTraveler]

1. His full infrastructure is in place...

And his campaign will have close to a three year head start.

It's right there for anyone willing to see.

[Exotica]

2. attacking President Obama is Democratic primary suicide

[NCTraveler]

4. Yeah. I keep hearing he is done.

It's just laughable at this point.

[brush]

18. Ahhh...he's too old.

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2018, 12:42 PM - Edit history (3)

And why is his agenda always to attack the Democratic Party?

And on MLK commemoration day? The tone deafness is astounding.

We've got a maniac repug running wild taking the country down the road to fascism and he attacks the Democratic Party's alleged failure and loss of seats over 15 years when we all know repugs have been perfecting their cheating and vote suppression during that very time.

Go after trump for God's sake, or propose remedies to combat repug cheating and vote suppression.

My God. He still doesn't get his constant attacks on the party are why he lost and will lose again if he runs.

Plenty of new, younger, actual Democrats will emerge for 2020 who don't constantly attack the party they don't belong to but want to represent.

Plus, we've been there and done that with him—and even with Hillary, who, btw, has already stated she's had enough and will not run again.

[NCTraveler]

108. Some answers.

"And why is his agenda always to attack the Democratic Party? "

That is a patently false statement with no basis reality. He spends a small percentage of his time ignorantly attacking the democratic party. It's red meat for his base. It's necessary to hold them together.

"And on MLK commemoration day? The tone deafness is astounding."

The guy yells at walls. A lot of people find it endearing. Tone deaf is nothing new for him.

"Go after trump for God's sake"

He does. Regularly.

"My God. He still doesn't get his constant attacks on the party are why he lost and will lose again if he runs."

That's just foolish. He went up against Clinton. Why are so many dismissive of her, as you are here. Clinton beat him. I will not go any further as I find your analysis of Clintons win in the primary to be questionable at best.

"Plenty of new, younger, actual Democrats will emerge for 2020 who don't constantly attack the party they don't belong to but want to represent. "

Please figure out who his base is. This is the crowd he has the best shot with.

Sanders is a train wreck for our party. Making up arguments out of thin air in order to feel better about his prospects is not the way to go.

[brush]

127. Pretty confusing. One question to you: If Sanders is a trainwreck for the party why do you back him?

[NCTraveler]

132. Where do you see me backing him?

Because I don't back Sanders doesn't mean I ignore reality and spread lies.

Again, show me where I am backing him.

[brush]

170. What was this then?

Last edited Thu Apr 5, 2018, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

"Yeah. I keep hearing he is done.

It's just laughable at this point."

That clearly sounds to me like you're backing him. If not, pls be clearer.

And this on my alleged dismissing of Hillary is also not too clear: "That's just foolish. He went up against Clinton. Why are so many dismissive of her, as you are here. Clinton beat him. I will not go any further as I find your analysis of Clintons win in the primary to be questionable at best."

How the hell was I dismissive of Clinton by stating that: "...and even with Hillary, who, btw, has already stated she's had enough and will not run again"?

I was/am a Hillary supporter and was glad she has gracefully taken herself out of the 2020 conversation and moved aside for younger candidates, something an even older Sanders has failed to do.

[NCTraveler]

177. You have made zero case that I have made any statement backing him.

Then again, look at the claims you made above.

You also shouldn't omit parts of your own quotes in order to make a differing point than was originally made.

[brush]

186. Ok, time to clear it up. Are you a backer of Sanders of not. That statement of yours...

"Yeah. I keep hearing he is done.

It's just laughable at this point."

Seems to point that way. Just be clear please so we know where you stand.

And btw, we have been there and done that with Hillary. Most of her supporters want new blood in 2020 too, and from her statements on not running again she clearly feels that way as well.

[NCTraveler]

192. This is really strange.

Take care.

[brush]

196. Why all the vagueness?

[NCTraveler]

203. There is no vagueness.

I don't spread grand lies about him as you have clearly done, and I pointed out, so I must be a backer.

You have very unique style of debating.

[brush]

206. What are the grand lies that I allegedly spread? He has attacked the party constantly during...

the campaign and continues to.

[bearsfootball516]

213. His refusal to answer a simple question speaks volumes.

[brush]

230. Agreed.

[NCTraveler]

309. I directly answered above. Clearly. nt

[bearsfootball516]

313. He asked a yes or no question about whether or not you're a Sanders backer.

You said "This is really strange."

That's not a yes or no answer.

[NCTraveler]

334. Please show me where I have ever backed Sanders.

Yes, it is a strange question.

Point to a reason for asking such a question. Otherwise it's nothing more than some enemy list bullshit. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. What if my answer is yes? I've been to every rally he has ever held. What if my answer is no?

It's pointless.

These are my quotes. They are in the conversation you are claiming you read.

"The guy yells at walls. A lot of people find it endearing. Tone deaf is nothing new for him. "

"Sanders is a train wreck for our party."

You literally jumped into this conversation and claim you need to ask me if I support him. Again, strange question. You don't think it's obvious? They were direct comments to the other poster asking the question. It's mind boggling.

[Agschmid]

551. So what if he is? Joe McCarthy is that you?

Do you have a list of 205 names that were made known to you?

[brush]

563. Why hide it and then later in the thread declare it to another poster?

No one else is hiding who they support. There's no reason for this board if everyone is vague about who they back.

[True Blue American]

141. Thank you for that post!

You mirror my feelings exactly.

[lunamagica]

207. I know what his base is not. PoC. And he keeps alienating them more and more

Sure, his hard-core base finds his tone-deafness and yelling at walls, "endearing". The rest, not so much.

I've had enough tone-deafness in the WH to last me ten lifetimes. That is NOT what we need.

[NCTraveler]

224. Fully agree. Nt

[calimary]

218. The only problem with figuring out who his base is

is trying to figure out who was a legitimate Bernie supporter and who was actually a GOP dirty trickster, a bot, or a nogoodnik from a Russian troll farm.

I hope no one forgets how the CONS were already being exhorted pushing his campaign - specifically to hurt Hillary’s prospects - as far back as June 2015 in the National Review online.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/06/bernie-sanders-republicans-myra-adams/

[NCTraveler]

236. The people at his rallies were real.

Some even voted.

Some were motivated for less than honest reasons or by less than honest players. That doesn't negate any of it. That doesn't mean it won't happen again. I don't find your point to be a reason to dismiss him. I find it to be a reason to be more concerned.

[Demsrule86]

250. We don't know that...could have been Russian or GOP plants.

[NCTraveler]

254. Where is Russia or the GOP going to round up fifteen thousand....

teenagers for a Sanders rally?



https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1EODB_enUS545US545&tbm=isch&q=bernie+sanders+rally&chips=q:bernie+sanders+rally,online_chips:crowd&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNn-mv6KPaAhVJCKwKHaoUBQcQ4lYIJigA&biw=1920&bih=949&dpr=1

[Demsrule86]

391. I am not saying all of them...but they could have been mixed in...could have been people who just

wanted to see him...he got kind of famous but never intended to support him because the votes never matched up with the rallies.

[NCTraveler]

399. I think he got more votes than you are giving him credit for.

I think he is in a stronger position than you recognize.

I don't think he can pull the same numbers. I don't think he needs to.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1EODB_enUS545US545&ei=V4vGWp2wKY6ksAWx8KrwAg&q=bernie+sanders+iowa&oq=bernie+sanders+iowa&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i7i30k1l8j0l2.3264.5742.0.5934.15.15.0.0.0.0.109.1255.14j1.15.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.15.1253...0i67k1j0i131k1.0.UHdp5Li0BFo

The guy is working it.

[Demsrule86]

617. Caucus votes are way less in terms of numbers. Well no matter what it is over. and let's look to the

future hopefully with fresh candidates for 2020 primaries. I would like to see caucuses done away with as they are undemocratic.

[NCTraveler]

618. I did not define my comment to caucus states.

He got a lot in primaries. I’m no fan of the caucus.

[Demsrule86]

620. Had the primaries only counted he would have been out way sooner.

Consider Nevada.

[NCTraveler]

630. Yes. If we remove where he did better...

He doesn’t do as well.

I don’t see any indicator telling me he would have dropped out earlier or that he won’t again benefit from caucus states.

[CentralMass]

609. I attended the rally in Portland Oregon. Due to the expected crowd I took the Max Train into the

event. The train was packed with people going to the event and as result there were lines and it took longer then usual giving me the opportunity to meet and have small discussions with quite a few people. The trains were packed like i have never seen them. As the train neared the Moda Center there was a traffic accident on a bridge that both the train and autos use and we had to be bussed via an alternate route. I think I had to wait for the 4th or 5th bus and I had to hustle getting into a line to even make it onto one that quickly. At the Moda Center (The arena where the Portland Trail Blazers play) the line to get in was 2 to 4 people wide stretched all the way around the front side of the building. I would say 1/4 to 1/2 mile long. I knew I wasn't going to make it in until a police officer told us that there was an entrance and smaller line on the other side of the building, I had to run around to other side and was in the last group of people to make it in before they hit the 20,000 seat limit that had been set. They estimate that 8,000 that could not make it stayed outside. I think they piped the audio outside and Bernie came out after the event and spoke to them.

The event was real and so were the people. There were many young people, some were high school age who were excited to vote in their first election. The ones that I spoke were really engaged, knew the issues, and were excited to be there. It was a really positive atmosphere with and event.

[Demsrule86]

615. But were they all supporters who intended to vote for him?

I suppose in terms of the sheer number of votes cast even if every single person at those rallies voted for Sen. Sanders it would not have changed the outcome. But I have to wonder knowing what we know now.

[CentralMass]

675. My educated guess is that that the vsast majority were liberal supporters.

I saw one guy out side that looked like a trumoer.

There was one woman somewhere to the left if the stage that at the beghining tried to yell out something every time that Bernie started to speak. I think it was a BLM dupporter. The PA system drowned her out and it was a nonissue. The crowd was genuinely glad to be there and applauded and cheered Bernie and his guests loudly.
He got standing ovations. Zero violence or hostility other that one verbal protester of unknown origin and intent
These were normal people and it was clear to me they were the to see Bernie.

In the primary Bernie got 56% of the vote vs Hillary's 42%.. it was a closed primary.

[Demsrule86]

701. I just hope he doesn't run. We don't need the same shit again.

We need to win or we can kiss our progressive asses goodbye.

[KPN]

263. Yeah we do. I was one.

Voted for Hillary in the GE. So did my wife. So did my 3 millennial kids after some arm-twisting by me.

[NCTraveler]

327. For some reason people want to completely dismiss this...

and the many reasons there were to vote for him.

I'm not big on him. Never supported him. It doesn't mean I must be blind to what was around me or act like I have no clue why good people would back him.

Some seem to think Clinton supporters are the only ones with anger. Guess what? I'm assuming you are one as well. As you said, you voted for her. To think it doesn't anger you and others to see Sanders smeared by RawStory like this, and that it alone won't generate more division, is to ignore reality. Then to be dismissed as a GOP plant or Russian fed troll....

Please note that I am not speaking directly for you. More in general terms.

[Demsrule86]

396. I am not saying there were not real supporters but the votes never seemed to match. I actually

as I posted before voted for Sanders in Ohio...I liked both candidates although I always though Hillary would win Ohio. My kids talked me into it. My entire family voted for Hillary in the general as well...and we literally all wept at the outcome knowing how terrible this would be. We need to win in 20. And the comments at the MLK event are not helpful.

[Agschmid]

553. Completely unrealistic based on the rally sizes.

Let’s stop being ridiculous, Bernie has real support there are people out there who would love to see him as President.

[ehrnst]

259. So were Naders'

Didn't transfer into a significant number in the General.

[NCTraveler]

261. Nader was pulling this?

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1EODB_enUS545US545&tbm=isch&q=bernie+sanders+rally&chips=q:bernie+sanders+rally,online_chips:crowd&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNn-mv6KPaAhVJCKwKHaoUBQcQ4lYIJigA&biw=1920&bih=949&dpr=1

I believe Naders largest was fifteen thousand.

And how many millions of votes did Nader get in the Democratic primary?

[ehrnst]

272. Well...this sure sounds familiar:

On Oct. 13, 2000, 15,000 zealous progressives packed Madison Square Garden for one of Ralph Nader’s super rallies. They paid $20 each for admission, evidence of their passion, since political rallies are almost always free. That year, many on the left were disappointed with the Democratic nominee for president. Al Gore was a wonky centrist and a stilted speaker who appeared to possess few core principles. For progressives, his association with Bill Clinton, icon of triangulation and political compromise, counted against him. At a time when the left was outraged over our corrupt campaign finance system, Gore was dogged by questions about money he’d received from sketchy donors with ties to foreign governments.

At best, Gore offered progressives a continuation of politics as usual. True, the Republican in the race seemed a right-wing buffoon, but Nader told his followers to vote their hopes, not their fears, and his message about citizens banding together to overturn entrenched, amoral corporate interests spoke to many people’s deepest aspirations. Bush and Gore, he said at Madison Square Garden, are “both for cracking down on street crime but ignoring corporate crime, which takes far more lives.” In response, the crowd erupted in chants of “Let Ralph debate!” Young people flocked to Nader, and hip musicians played his rallies: The lineup in New York included Eddie Vedder, Patti Smith, and Ani DiFranco, whose ’90s cool had not yet evanesced.

Nader concluded his almost hourlong speech by calling the evening “the most memorable political rally of the year 2000.” Some who were there felt they were witnessing the flowering of an epochal social movement. “The protest movement that has been growing on a grassroots level, as evidenced by the World Trade Organization demonstrations in Seattle, reached its political coming-of-age last night,” the Village Voice wrote.
......................................................................

To the Nader campaign, the super rallies were meant to force mainstream recognition of his movement’s scope. “It was the most visible way to show that we could get more people out to more rallies than the other major parties,” Nader told me in a recent interview. “That should have been a real eyebrow-raiser for the mass media. We filled the Portland Coliseum in Oregon and got almost no media. Eleven thousand people, that was the first rally, and we got maybe a squib in the New York Times.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_next_20/2016/09/ralph_nader_and_the_tragedy_of_voter_as_consumer_politics.html

[stevenleser]

282. Yep, the Demagoguery from these types doesn't change from year to year, candidate to candidate. nt

[calimary]

363. I do believe that. Maybe a few provocateurs in there, but mostly and mainly legit followers.

I dismiss him for other reasons than just this. But I totally agree that it's a reason to be concerned. And I suspect that with this so-called "administration" being (I think) deliberately asleep at the switch on this, it's very likely to happen again, particularly if all of us don't turn out and vote. Because - none of us should forget: there are more of us Dems than there are for the GOP.

[Cha]

377. Agree, brush.. and BS attacked the Democratic Party on the day

after we WON big in Wisconsin.. and we have been winning.. why didn't he mention that?

And, he went after President Obama on the Anniversary of the assassination of MLK.

Link to tweet

Why didn't he mention that? I think we both know.

[leftyladyfrommo]

448. I think Bernie's ego got the best of him.

I used to admire his spirit but I don't even like him any more.

[EffieBlack]

556. That's exactly what happened to me

[still_one]

180. Whether he is done or not isn't the point. Assuming he decides to run again, and run as a Democrat

isn't the point.

The point is that two years have passed, and the anger is still palpable, no matter which side of the fence it comes from, and that anger is a memory that will not go away.

If the Democrats want to have a united party going into 2020, they better think long and hard before resurecting echos of 2016, and seriously consider new faces for potential candidates who can unite the party, because I seriously doubt that will occur from those involved from that year.

[NCTraveler]

191. I wrote to my state party, the DNC and many other orginizations about just this.

The time is long gone for action in this area.

"they better think long and hard before resurecting echos of 2016"

Steps could have been taken to hinder another run from him.

"the anger is still palpable"

Yes, his base is furious. Some aren't able to look past their own anger. There is plenty to go around.

[still_one]

211. As you alluded to there is plenty of anger to go around on all sides, and I think it will be very

challenging to expect people to look past their own anger.

[KPN]

270. But wouldn't you say the same is true

about Hillary's base? There's plenty of anger there as well. ... And we all just better get past the anger and focus on positions/policies/priorities/messages if we are going to capitalize on our potential in 2020.

[NCTraveler]

289. Absolutely.

That is what I meant by this: "There is plenty to go around."

I should have been more clear.

I feel that anger might be split and that is my concern. I think we are going to have a number of people wanting to take Trump on. I don't think our field is going to be small. It is the Clinton segment that will be split. That is my concern and how I come to my thoughts on this.

Take this poor example.

Sanders
K Harriss
Biden
Booker


Say that is our field well into the primary. The only place for Sanders voters to go under such a situation would be Harris, and that is weak at best. What vote is being split the most when compared to the last primary. I feel Sanders only needs to hold sixty percent or so of his vote total from last primary to win under such conditions.

[Demsrule86]

401. He may run as an independent which would explain the attacks on the party and outreach to

Trump supporters that we have seen.

[pazzyanne]

647. I find the that the unity of the party is at great risk, as apparently you do.

It concerns me that the 2016 election is still being played over and over and it is almost 2 years later. No one is more disappointed than I am with the result of the last election, BUT IT IS OVER. IMHO we should be focused on the 2018 and 2020 elections that are coming up - shortly. The arguments over the 2016 elections are damaging to our party and to the future of this election. Put that election behind us and take what we have learned into the future if we truly want to win back our country. Too much is at stake to allow this petty bickering to continue! I am extremely frustrated with this conversation. In the primary, I was impressed by Bernie and his ideas. Take the good from that. I have been a Hillary supporter for years and years, and I love that woman and what she has done for this country. Saying that, I know that we need to take the knowledge gained and MOVE ON with our energy and focus to put the Democratic position in first place, which does include bringing younger members into leadership roles. If the Parkland, FL kids have not shown us that the youthful drive and commitment are things that our party needs, we are doomed. Time to look forward, not backward.

[still_one]

660. I agree with your points, and you are right about unity, but I do not believe Senator Sanders is a

unifying force, and the only way we are going to move beyond that is if we have new faces

[Demsrule86]

245. I hope he is done. He won't win and will only help the Republicans.

[Blue_true]

299. We will see soon enough. nt

[George II]

541. He's no closer to the Democratic Party nomination than he's ever been, he may be further.

Remember, by 2020 several states' Democratic Parties will have rules requiring release of about 5 years worth of income tax returns.

[BeyondGeography]

8. A terrible attack, calling President Obama charismatic

You could ride all the way to the nomination just by talking about that for 16 months.

[Exotica]

89. it was a backhanded compliment

[BeyondGeography]

98. He is a social klutz

You can relax, he won’t ever be the nominee of the Democratic Party.

But that shouldn’t get in the way of understanding why he has an audience. Sanders addresses difficult issues (the decline of the Democratic Party 2008-16 being one of them) directly, while too many politicians tippy-toe around them. And when people respond with hurt feelings instead of dealing with the substance of his remarks they aren’t hurting him a bit.

[Exotica]

107. this post below is what I fear

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10453114

[True Blue American]

143. Bernie plays on the emotional

Just like Trump.always has.

[BeyondGeography]

153. Nah...he doesnt really care about your emotions

He’s a true believer with a know-it-all problem. A bit on the monomaniacal side. He doesn’t realize how narrow his comfort zone is; equality, justice and fairness. Anything else and he tends to stumble. He’s a good soul though. I’m surprised more people don’t allow themselves to see it.

[Corvo Bianco]

200. He's loud and loves controversy among friends (democratic party)

Those are certainly Trumpian qualities.

[LiberalLovinLug]

156. One of his charms is that he is such a social klutz

He also comes off as a grumpy old man. Especially with his disheveled hair. But he's also 100% on the mark with that statement.

He doesn't always say things in the most elegant way. Unlike the former President who was smooth as silk. And that was the whole point of his statement. That Obama's own charm masked the reality on the ground. WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT TO SWALLOW FOR SOME?

And that the first steps towards recovery is admitting there is a problem. He's the evil outside harbinger though so shut your ears!

[BeyondGeography]

204. Totally agree

Every political party can use a Bernie. It might even be a necessity. Especially for Democrats, who are prone to being process-driven to a fault.

[EffieBlack]

226. He's also clean and articulate

But other than that, his eight years was a "failure."

We hear you loud and clear, Bernie.

[NurseJackie]

265. Word.

[BannonsLiver]

102. Yes, but how will it play with those who arent obtuse?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

582. Yes indeed! Nice thought!

[True Blue American]

134. As it should be!

President Obama is a brilliant Scholar, successful President!

If this does not prove what Bernie Sanders is, nothing will. A handyman until the age of 41. He managed to get elected Mayor, the Senator, where he is in the tiny state of Vermont.

His wife is under indictment for fraud!

No way, Bernie!

[sdfernando]

39. I can see it and I'm not dismissing Bernie

He has some good ideas and some not so good. I don't think it is a good idea to dismiss him.

My problem is if he is going to run for the Democratic nomination why doesn't he become a freaking Democrat?

[lark]

91. Duh, he is not a Democrat.

He attacks Democrats just about as much a he does drumpf. That is why I will never vote for him again, fool me once and all that.

[sdfernando]

120. I know he is not a Democrat, he is an independent

That wasn't my point. My point was if he is going to try for the Democratic Party nomination, why doesn't he register as a Democrat?

I don't think the Democratic (or any party) should allow non-members to get their parties nomination.

[True Blue American]

144. Lark, you are wise to see through!

[Maven]

48. He's done. nt

[NCTraveler]

52. Yeah. That's it. nt

[Maven]

60. A large contingent of Democrats absolutely despise him

and Bernie can thank himself for that. This being just the latest example of his tone-deafness and disrespect toward our party.

He'll never be our nominee and he will never be president.

[NCTraveler]

67. Agree with the second part. Not with the first.

"He'll never be our nominee and he will never be president."

I think he has to be considered the front-runner at this point. Of course there are no guarantees.

[mythology]

178. Given his lack of popularity among minorities in 2016

How can he be considered the front runner?

[Maven]

189. He's the front-runner among white male pundits. nt

[Blue_Tires]

166. Oh, so it's a shoo-in then?

[NCTraveler]

167. If that is your take. nt

[Blue_Tires]

241. I will say that for a campaign that struggled trying

to win over black folks (after initially dismissing us), Bernie's optics are... Questionable to say the least.

FWIW, I did vote for Bernie in the VA primary, so save it... And for the record I think he's a decent enough guy; just that his advisors and strategists are the worst bunch of ideological binary nutbars, trolls and Ron Paul rejects who refuse to realize the whole nation isn't like Brooklyn or Portland or whatever idyllic lefty college town they just graduated from... And yes, I can make a fairly strong argument that his campaign from a tactical standpoint was more pathetically inept than Hillary on her worst day...

So we can talk about his ready-made infrastructure and three-year head start all day, but like I said early in the primary, unless Sanders gets the loons out of his top staff and unless he reels in his more shall we say, overzealous supporters who hurt his campaign much more than they ever helped, 2020 is going to end in disaster....

[NCTraveler]

249. "FWIW, I did vote for Bernie in the VA primary, so save it"

What in the world is that about?

[Blue_Tires]

369. DUers have long since accused me of never supporting Sanders

So I have to drop that disclaimer before typing

[NCTraveler]

371. "save it" is not a disclaimer. nt

[Blue_Tires]

407. If that is your take. nt

[NCTraveler]

410. It's a fact, not a take.

"save it" is not a disclaimer.

[Blue_Tires]

525. Since you're in a nitpicky mood

My fucking *disclaimer* was that I voted for Bernie Fucking Sanders in the motherfucking Commonwealth of Virginia primary for Democratic Party Nominee in the Year of Our Goddamned Lord, Twenty-Fucking-Sixteen...

The "save it" (which seems to be the only part you read) was a truncated, add-on editorialization to the aforementioned disclaimer...

Are we clear? Or we still gotta problem here?

[DownriverDem]

174. No good feelings about Bernie

Bernie is not a Dem. I hated that he used the Dem Party just so he could run in their primaries. Then as soon as he lost he quit the party. His supporters are clueless as to the damage Bernie did.

[NCTraveler]

183. I think traitor is a bit harsh but do agree with you overall.

" I hated that he used the Dem Party just so he could run in their primaries. Then as soon as he lost he quit the party."

That is nothing new. Sanders has a history of running in the Democratic primary. I don't know how more aren't aware of that. Please not that I am not referencing Presidential primary. When he wins the Democratic primary he then declines the nomination and runs as an Independent. He should have been called out on that. Daily. Please read up on his history of doing this if you aren't aware.

[Civic Justice]

482. 100% !!!! His supporters are clueless as to the damage Bernie did.

[PubliusEnigma]

210. Is Bernie prepared to give Trump a second term? Because he is not running as a Democrat.

If he runs as an Independent, he will replace Ralph Nader as the worst spoiler in US History. And for what?

[NCTraveler]

223. Who will stop him from running as a Democrat?

He has done it for decades. There is a case that can be made that he would turn down the nomination and run as an independent. That is what he has done historically.

[PubliusEnigma]

269. He wasn't nominated when he was pretending to be in the party.

Now that he has quit the Party again, why would that result change?

[NCTraveler]

273. "why would that result change"

Nothing would be the same from the start outside of party.

I don't get you question. Why would anything change when very little from the start would be the same.

[PubliusEnigma]

702. Especially the part about Bernie actually being in the Party.

You have to be in the Party to be the nominee.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. Omg! Bernie called President Obama brilliant!!

[Exotica]

9. It was pure dismissiveness, I may be young but I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday

[ehrnst]

240. Exactly. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

31. It can be difficult to tell a back-handed compliment from sincerity

It can be difficult to tell a back-handed compliment from sincerity when one's bias depends on not seeing it as such.

[jrthin]

40. Exactly. nt

[stevenleser]

227. Yep, intellectual dishonesty comes in many flavors, particularly when someone is hopelessly biased

These are the same folks who criticized me for appearing on Fox News while complementing Bernie for appearing on Fox News, at Liberty University and similar media/locations.

Sanders isn't qualified to shine Barack Obama's shoes and if we are unfortunate enough to end up with Sanders as President, that will become apparent very quickly. He wouldn't be quite as bad for Democrats as Trump has turned out for Republicans, but he wouldn't be that far off in terms of damaging our brand due to incompetence.

[TCJ70]

232. Hmmm...

This:

intellectual dishonesty comes in many flavors, particularly when someone is hopelessly biased

Followed by:

Sanders isn't qualified to shine Barack Obama's shoes

[stevenleser]

234. Correct. And? nt

[George II]

47. That wasn't the whole thing he said.

[bettyellen]

105. He called Dems a failure. Hes going to look like an ass if he attempts to use the Dems again.

[getagrip_already]

109. and he non-endorsed endorsed clinton also.....

just saying.

He needs to leave. Just leave.

[George II]

436. According to the article, he also "dismissed former President Barack Obama....

....as a charismatic lightweigt".

Is that acceptable to you?

[DLevine]

465. He never called Obama a lightweight, and certainly did not dismiss him.

He called Obama charismatic, extraordinary, and brilliant. He urged people to vote for Democrats.

Is it acceptable to you that the article lied about what he said?

[George II]

472. If there is ever a transcript I'll read it. I believe the article.

[TCJ70]

478. Transcript:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10453345

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

581. So true & at least Bernie never falsely accused Obama of representing the interests of slumlords.

Nor suggested, years earlier, Obama would be getting him coffee.

We all know who actually DID say that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

471. That's made up bullshit. I watched the video. He said no such thing.

[George II]

473. Until RawStory issues a retraction, I will believe what they say.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

479. Lol. Alrighty then.

[progressoid]

490. No no no. He insulted all of us!!1!

He's an over-privileged white guy DERP with a messiah complex who DERP DERP who never misses a chance DERP DE DERP DERP to badmouth every DERRRRRRP real Democrat ever. DERP A DERP DERPADEE DERP!!111!!!

[EffieBlack]

497. And you wonder why African Americans are turned off by Sanders and his supporters

Keep insulting us and mocking us and our opinions. You only illustrate exactly why black folks are sick of Bernie and he'll never get more than a handful of blacks to give him the time of day.

And see how well he does in a presidential primary without our support.

[Exotica]

515. It is pure white privilege. Intellectual anarcho socialist kickabouts

are fine in a college pub, but real people, especially us PoC DIE from Republican policies and social constructions when the fuckers have power.

I get so angry I could scream.

[progressoid]

548. Didn't you tell me a few days ago that "All black people dont think alike"

And now declare (through knowledge gained via, I dunno, the psychic hotline maybe?) "Bernie...will never get more than a handful of blacks to give him the time of day." It's amazing how you hold these opposing views - that all Black people don't think alike, yet all do think alike in their hatred of Bernie.

By the way, didja know that last spring the Harvard-Harris poll African Americans gave the senator the highest favorables at 73 percent — vs. 68 percent among Latinos, 62 percent among Asian Americans and 52 percent among white voters. It wasn’t a fluke: This August, black voters again reported a 73 percent favorability rating for Sanders. Critics, such as Starr, point to the senator’s 2016 primary numbers among older African American voters to claim that his message somehow doesn’t resonate with people of color as a whole — and continue to ignore that, according to GenForward, Sanders won the black millennial vote in the primaries.

[EffieBlack]

552. Certainly, all black people don't think alike. But if you see a whole lot of black people saying

the same thing, you and your candidate might want to pay attention to what they're saying.

Just like you would do with any other demographic.

Maybe Bernie should think of us like Trump voters or white working class voters whom - although they also don't all think alike - he sure seems to believe their have opinions that matter and should be listened and catered to.

But keep on thinking the way you do and ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you about Bernie Sanders - including the black people who surely have at least as much knowledge and insight about race as you do. Keep whitesplaining to us and telling us we don't know what we're talking about. And see how that works out for you and Bernie.

Bottom line is Bernie's done - he just doesn't seem to realize it. And neither do you.

You're in for a rude awakening, but it's not like you weren't given a heads up.

[progressoid]

566. So where do you get your data from?

You speak as if you have inside access to stats. Your statements certainly must be based on factual information right? You could stop my supposed "whitesplaining" with some actual data to back up your claims that POC hate Sanders. I notice you ignored the data I posted.

BTW, It's interesting that you should assume I'm white. However, there is a Native American side to my family; my Grandfather is half Lakota. Not that it matters though. Let's face it, as a demographic, most don't really give a shit about Native Americans.

I'm not in for a rude awakening. I'm under no illusions about Bernie and his role in American politics. By 2020, I hope he, Joe Biden, Hillary, and most of the other old farts will stand aside and make room for some new blood. But I also hope my party isn't so entrenched in it's pride that it ignores the millions that he represented who wanted a new direction in the party.

[stevenleser]

616. You will see the data if Sanders runs again when the southern primaries occur

People will not forget that he was a jerk towards the first black President on MLK day.

[progressoid]

628. Soooo...no data then.

Just good old internet poutrage.

[EffieBlack]

631. Black people expressing opinions online "good old internet poutrage"

As I said, just keep talking. It's very helpful to see true colors.

[progressoid]

638. That isn't what I said.

I didn't say that this good old internet poutrage was specific to Black people only. Take a look at the many threads about him in the last few days. Are the people condemning him, only people of color?

And it seems you still can't or won't provide any actual data to support your premise that "black folks are sick of Bernie and he'll never get more than a handful of blacks to give him the time of day. "

[TexasTowelie]

652. Didn't we get that data a couple of years ago?

I doubt that things changed much since then.

From what I'm reading in various threads it doesn't appear that he has gained any new supporters in the Democratic Party to support him in a future primary run and he has also lost some support. That's why he seems focused on independents and Republicans, but will he be able to convince many of them to change their voter registrations in closed primary states prior to 2020?

From what I can gather, his best hope is to have multiple candidates run to the right to split the vote so it will appear that he is in the lead. However, the flaw in that strategy is that if he doesn't have enough delegates then it will mean that multiple ballots will be required at the national convention. At that point, the delegates are no longer committed and can organize to form a majority. I doubt that he gets many of the other Democrats to switch to his side since he will be considered as the unwelcome outsider by almost everyone else that didn't vote for him.

[EffieBlack]

533. An excellent example of the opinions of black folk being dismissed

Of course, you and some of your cohorts are taking it to another level by not just ignoring our opinions but mocking them with sarcastic posts such as this.

I suggest that you bookmark this thread so that, in the future, when y'all are trying to figure out why Bernie only managed to get 17 black votes in the next primary, you can refer back to it and refresh your recollection.

[TexasTowelie]

593. So will Bernie support or oppose superdelegates in the primary?

He was opposed to them during the primaries, but solicited the report at the end when it was clear that he lost.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

594. Wat?

[TexasTowelie]

602. Surely you remember what happened?

I figure that you know how to do an Internet search and I know when I'm being baited into getting a post hidden.

ETA: How are rhett and Warren?

[Renew Deal]

5. It was dead long before that

The sequel is never as good as the original.

[SidDithers]

6. DU rec...

He's getting roasted on Twitter.

Sid

[Eliot Rosewater]

36. Thank GOD! I am an atheist and I literally pray, daily, people will begin to GET IT

[R B Garr]

72. Awesome! Moar please!

His Obama comment is vile and just more proof that MLK was used to promote a Bernie rally.

[LenaBaby61]

427. He's getting roasted on Twitter.

I have 4 friends on there who roasted Bernie, and they HAD been big-time Bernie supporters. These particular friends were extremely dedicated--not fair weather types--But they're no longer Bernie supporters. They've really turned on him. My other Bernie-supporting friends, while still supportive of Bernie, are growing tired of what they call his anti-Dem rhetoric and increasing political tone deafness. Two other friends, still by in large Bernie supporters, are troubled that he still hasn't released his income taxes.

[Cha]

600. I know.. they know exactly what BS was sayin'

Especially the POC community twitter feeds I've been reading for awhile now.

they are not impressed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Can we please move on from Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders ?

Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation

-John Fitzgerald Kennedy

[NCTraveler]

10. It is not likely to happen as one is still campaigning from coast to coast.

This is current. Not the past.

[George II]

51. That's the problem. So, while most members of Congress are in their own districts....

....to commemorate the historic significance of April 4, 2018 (my two Senators and Congressmen were), he's in Mississippi at an event for MLK Jr. badmouthing our only Black President.

Not a winning strategy.

[NCTraveler]

54. Look at where his stops have been over the last year.

It's very strategic.

[NCTraveler]

605. It takes little more than a google search...

To see all of the campaigning he is doing. It’s targeted. I think it really is worth at least taking note of.

[George II]

627. Google search is as far as I'll go.

I'm really not interested especially in the manner that I've seen his campaigning.

I agree with you, his campaigning is targeted, but don't appreciate his "target". I don't care to read about someone who repeatedly criticizes the Democratic Party without even bothering to become a member.

I guess that's just me.

[Cha]

601. Exactly, NCTraveler..

Hillary has nothing to do with this.

[Initech]

12. Yeah seriously it's time to get some new blood in these fights.

Obama won because he was fresh, he was exciting and he was different from any other candidate. I don't know if I can take another round of Clinton V Sanders.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Remember when...

[BeyondGeography]

33. ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. This isn't like Ali-Frazier ll, Ali-Norton ll, or Leonard-Duran ll

Few are clamoring for it.

[BeyondGeography]

68. This is how the (Republican) terrorists win

Not really though. For whatever reason, this board is bonkers on this topic. Try talking about it outside the bubble and people are mostly inclined to think you're wasting your time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. I remember when the late George Harrison was asked about a Beatles reunion.

He said it was like going back to the circus as an adult. It can never be as fun.

[BeyondGeography]

76. Hillary is off the field and at the rate Bernie is going

he's going to feel like Wepner in the 15th round by the end of next year. He'll probably run but he shouldn't.

While we're at it:

In the ninth round Wepner scored a knockdown, which Ali said occurred because Wepner was stepping on his foot. Wepner went to his corner and said to his manager, "Al, start the car. We're going to the bank. We are millionaires." To which Wepner's manager replied, "You better turn around. He's getting up and he looks pissed off."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Wepner

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. Wepner also bought his wife a new negligee and told her she would be sleeping with the champ.

She asked him which room Muhammad Ali was staying in.

[still_one]

188. Just reading the comments here and other places, no matter which side of the fence they come from,

it is pretty obvious the Democratic party needs someone who can unite the party, and it is far more likely to happen with new faces

[BeyondGeography]

197. Absolutely

We are in dire need of both.

[Mr.Bill]

229. Recent special elections have shown

that Donald Trump is doing an outstanding job of uniting the Democratic party. All it takes is him endorsing the republican we are running against.

[NurseJackie]

74. Oh, please! GMAFB, will ya?

7. Can we please move on from Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders ?

So... are you proposing that loyal Democrats just stand by silently while Sanders denigrates and smears the Democratic Party and Democrats? (And, this isn't about Hillary Clinton or "the primaries"... these responses are about things that he's saying and doing in 2018.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. I am tired of the constant bickering.

Hillary will not be running again. If we're lucky Bernie will say he is doing the same. It would be nice if Bernie was only mentioned at the other site.

[NurseJackie]

117. Aw, geeze! Seriously?

78. I am tired of the constant bickering.

And I'm tired of the nonstop attacks on Democrats and the Democratic party.

Hillary will not be running again.

Aw, geeze! Seriously? This has NOTHING to do with Hillary. This has nothing to do with the primary. Why do you mention her at all? What good purpose does that serve?

You're a smart individual. Surely you understand that this is about RIGHT NOW! This is a response to the things he's saying in 2018. Are you seriously suggesting that he should get a "free pass" because at one time in the past he was competing for the party's nomination?

If we're lucky Bernie will say he is doing the same. It would be nice if Bernie was only mentioned at the other site.

No. If we're "lucky" then Bernie will remain SILENT and stop insulting and smearing and trashing the Democratic party. It "would be nice" if he would stop doing and saying things that divide and weaken the Democratic party.

The bottom line is really very simple: that kind of behavior actually benefits the GOP. So why does this "ally" of ours continue to attack the Democratic party?

Are you saying that we just just let him attack with impunity? Are you saying that loyal Democrats should remain silent? Are you suggesting that we should consent to his abuse?

You may as well be talking to a brick wall as far as I'm concerned. No amount of scolding and indignant finger-wagging will silence me. I'll ALWAYS speak up in defense of his unfair attacks and smears. ALWAYS!

I have to tell you that I'm a bit surprised that someone like you... a person who always took great pride in "standing with" beleaguered but noble causes/individuals... now appears to be willing, almost eager, to let Bernie's attacks go unanswered.

Now you're scolding those of us who "stand with" Democrats and who "stand with" the Democratic party. Why? What happened? What changed?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. I'm tired of Bernie. I wish he would go away.

During the primaries I was emotionally invested in his political demise. Now arguing about him makes me weary. I just wish he would go away.

[NurseJackie]

147. Wish in one hand...

I just wish he would go away.

Wish in one hand... (you know the rest.)

Well, I hate to be the one to break it to ya... but that's not a very realistic way of thinking. The fact is this: he's not going to "go away" simply because you wish it were so. He's not going to stop attacking the Democratic party because you want others to ignore him.

Now arguing about him makes me weary.

Okay, so you're weary. Don't argue about it then. Retreat to an emotional safe space and don't interfere (or scold) those of us who CARE ENOUGH about the Democratic Party to actually DO SOMETHING whenever it's attacked and smeared. When we defend Democrats and refute his attacks on the Democratic party, you need to STOP characterizing our response as "refighting" ... stop dragging Hillary into it. (Neither of those things apply.)

[Demsrule86]

271. I will refute his attacks. I have bent over backwards to try to heal the divisions...but I am done

with that. You are right we have to refute his attacks. It is clear he hates the Democratic Party and I think President Obama...he wanted to primary him in 12 remember. We have to refute his attacks on our party if we are to have any chance in 18 and 20. I liked both candidates and my kids talked me into voting for him in the Ohio primary (I knew Hillary would win honestly). Now, I want my vote back. We need to get behind one candidate and bury Sen. Sanders in early primary voting if he does in fact run. And I hope he doesn't.

[NurseJackie]

292. ...

[Demsrule86]

376. Hi...yours was a great post by the way.

[Exotica]

707. Good post

[kstewart33]

354. Bingo.

Bernie's going to run. After criticizing the Democratic party time and again, he will attempt to run as a Democrat for one reason: the party's $$$$$ and its other benefits.

Bernie's campaign will split the Democratic party. The split and all the vehement anger will weaken our chances to defeat Trump, and Trump's prospects of victory will brighten considerably. Trump may even win.

After the election, Bernie will remain an Independent. Bernie will not acknowledge the truth of what happened, and we, our country and the world will be under assault for four more years.

This likely scenario is the reason why the Democratic Party must fight like heck to find and support a candidate that will unite the party and beat the crap out of Trump. Bernie cannot do that. Hopefully, someone else will.

[Demsrule86]

403. We need to all get behind one candidate and get Sanders out early so as to minimize the damage.

Although, I have to wonder if he is considering an independent run.

[Exotica]

708. I honestly do not think Bernie has the jacobs to make a 3rd-party/indy run

He would be instantly hated by all the sane part of the nation for giving Trump or another Rethuglican (if Trump is removed) a second consecutive term.

I do not think he wants that on his legacy. I hope I am right.

[brush]

148. That would be nice, but he's still at it with the Democratic Party failures.

Where is Archie Bunker when we need him?

A certain senator from a small state needs to stifle on the party he doesn't even belong to.

[George II]

160. It would have been nice if, on a very solemn historic day, he spent the day reflecting....

....with his constituents like just about every other member of the House and Senate did.

Instead he's 1500 miles from home wooing voters who will never vote for him anyway.

[Demsrule86]

387. It was a campaign speech mostly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. So, so tired of his routine.

[MrsCoffee]

13. No mourning from me.

[Paladin]

14. Disappear, Bernie. You've done more than enough damage. (nt)

[getagrip_already]

411. +1 nt

[Nanjeanne]

15. Wow. Interpretation is interesting. I heard it completely differently. I

heard President Obama was so charismatic that the corporatism in the Democratic Party was not as apparent during his years.

I’m still looking for Sanders calling Obama a lightweight. Last time I looked charismatic wasn’t a synonym.

[dhill926]

20. agree....

I must be missing something here...

[NCTraveler]

21. My thoughts on Sanders have been pretty clear.

RawStory of today garners about the same respect from me. It has become a seriously shitty organization.

[David__77]

26. Sanders did not call Obama a "lightweight." This is a political operatives spin.

...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

59. Bingo. Political operative has to add words to make his bullshit framing work.

That's how you know it's bullshit.

[zentrum]

173. Double Bingo.

[Demsrule86]

414. You can't change that at a MLK event he gave a political speech and called the Democratic party

shitty...in the same year as a midterm. That is not acceptable.

[stranger81]

419. Funny -- what Sanders said about the Democratic Party sounds a lot like what MLK himself said

about the Democratic Party. He was definitely no yellow dog:

"On 11 February, King delivered "A Realistic Look at Race Relations” to an over-packed audience at Bennett College’s Annie Merner Pfezffer Chapel. In his address King stressed the importance of the ballot, while noting the limitations of the two major political parties. "I’m not here to tell you how to vote,” he said. “That isn’t my concern. I’m not a politician. I have no political ambitions. I don’t think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God, nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses. And I’m not inextricably bound to either party."

http://okra.stanford.edu/transcription/document_images/Vol04Scans/363_11-Feb-1958_Interview%20at%20Bennett%20College.pdf

[David__77]

421. That is not what he said.

...

[Demsrule86]

611. I listened to the entire thing...and it was torture. Why a person would give a campaign speech at

such a solemn event is beyond me. He did say that about the Democratic Party. It is on the tape which is on the internet.

[rainin]

85. Since when are we not allowed to criticize the Democratic

Party? That's too much like USA USA USA We're #1!!


I've had plenty of complaints over the years about my party: I think we don't fight back like we should, I don't think we protect our assets (Al Franken), I don't like "impeachment is off the table" and " look forward not back".

I think Republicans had a cohesive 50 state strategy, we're just now figuring that out. And Republicans are better at exploiting the media.

This attack on Bernie is pure bullshit.

[brush]

158. Publicly attacking the party is bullshit if you want to be the candidate. OK, he's an independent...

stay an independent then and attack all you fucking want but don't come around when it's time to run and all of a sudden want to be a Democrat.

Let him run as an independent and see how far that gets him.

I'm tired of the crap. Either join the party and work within behind the scenes to fix things and stop the constant public attacks or stay away. He's supposed to be the outreach chairman not the public attack chairman.

That's not doing anything but keeping the schism in the party going.

[Blue_Tires]

169. What's bullshit is Bernie and his cohorts

screaming FAILURE!! 1000 LOST SEATS!! ESTABLISHMENT!! FAILURE!! 1000 LOST SEATS!! ESTABLISHMENT!! FAILURE!! 1000 LOST SEATS!! ESTABLISHMENT!! FAILURE!! 1000 LOST SEATS!! ESTABLISHMENT!! FAILURE!! 1000 LOST SEATS!! ESTABLISHMENT!! While totally ignoring the sweep in VA last November (which Bernie didn't lift a fucking finger to help, by the way)

[rainin]

175. Hyperbole much? He did not do as you said.

You are doing your level best to alienate dems who support Bernie and voted for Hillary. Not smart.

[Blue_Tires]

198. Slow your roll before you try coming at me...

I busted my ass volunteering to make Northam happen and despite all the bumper stickers I see around here we never had the first Berner at any one of our meetings...

If you don't live in Virginia or if you didn't put in a shift last year, kindly keep quiet about matters you had no direct involvement in...

[rainin]

287. With all the Bernie hate I saw here, is it really a surprise to you that you didn't see

Bernie voters at your meetings? This is my point exactly. It doesn't mean they didn't vote, though. There are millions of people who voted for Bernie who ultimately voted for Hillary. Why alienate them?

If you think being divisive is a good strategy, I can't change you. I can disagree with you.

[Blue_Tires]

379. Don't you DARE put this on me

Are the Bernie voters Dems or not?

Are they capable of enthusiastically supporting Dems who *don't* have Bernie's official blessing or not?

Are they serious about fighting Trump or not? (HINT: It starts with taking back congress)

Were they serious about getting off their asses and actually DOING something or is Twitter activism, heckling from the cheap seats and Monday morning quarterbacking all they know how to do?

Because there should be no ambiguity in answering these questions at all...





Oh, and good job sidestepping my question of whatever campaign work you've been doing (strike two) along with policing my tone in the most condescending manner possible (strike three) because I'm convinced now that you have no intention of trying to argue me in good faith.

I bid you adieu...

[Demsrule86]

622. I do not hate Sen. Sanders but with all the things he has said is it any surprise if Democrats

don't like him or even hate him? What reason has he given us to like him? I see supporters twisting themselves in knots trying to change his meaning but they can't. It is out there in black and white (print) and on video.

[rainin]

311. Posted elsewhere. Read again.

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

[KitSileya]

580. Wow, he cannot even acknowledge Obama's leadership qualities.

Contrary to what people reported probably because they cannot even parse the disrespect) he doesn't call Obama a charismatic *leader*, he's a charismatic *individual*. Nor is he an extraordinary President/party leader, but an extraordinary *candidate*. The leader of the Dem Party for a good part of the last 15 years was Barack Obama, so he is saying that Obama was a failure - only the razzle dazzle of his charisma blinded people to how incompetent Obama was, I guess. (And let's not even start trying to figure out what he means by charismatic...because if he means articulate, well-mannered etc, that has greater connotations when used on a Black man that I think Bernie Sanders is aware of.)


Coupled with his erasure of Hillary Clinton's stellar civil rights record, starting with her going undercover to fight segregation, by claiming she was just popular among African American voters because of her husband (when in reality, much of Bill Clinton's popularity among that voting block was because of his *wife's* record), it shows a profound unwillingness to actually listen to the opinions of African Americans. They tried to tell him why they didn't support him, and was brushed off with claims of being the confederacy etc.

[Demsrule86]

623. So it is the Democrats and particularly Pres. Obama's fault the Mississippi is red even though it

has been red for many years...way before Pres. Obama took office. That is just a ridiculous comment and inappropriate for an MLK event.

[BoneyardDem]

193. Bernie's attacks are bullshit

Democracy...we are in the fight of our lives (literally for many), to get the USA back on track as having the government in service of it's constituency.

You think now is the time for Bernie to insult and try to revamp the only party that has a chance of putting Trump away?

I'm simply no longer buying any attempt at minimizing and dissecting and dividing the Dems. Such games play ONLY play in favor of the Reps. There is not other outcome for this type of talking point between now and 2020.

[kstewart33]

360. Bingo.

At this point, criticizing the party gets us nowhere.

We've got to save our country, our electoral system, our values, our relationships with our allies, our climate, civil rights, and many other urgent needs all of which are being destroyed by Trump and his Trumpniks in his administration.

We must win this election. And Bernie's potshots at the Democratic party only damage our cause - to win.

Reform is needed of the Democratic Party. But it pales in importance to our key objective. We must win in 2020. The future of our country and the world depends on it.

[Exotica]

694. we need to be a big tent, BUT that doesn't mean that 10% of the people in the tent

want so bad to move it to the far left side of the campground (whilst it is raining) that they just push so hard they tear a fucking hole in it and we all get wet.

I liked your reply, so I wanted to say thank you.

[Docreed2003]

437. A-fucking-men....nt

[uponit7771]

570. +1

[EffieBlack]

296. Funny how were told we shouldnt criticize white Trump supporters because we might offend them

And we’re not supposed to criticize Bernie for some reason, even when he continues to ignore and insult people of color, but Bernie can criticize Democrats, including our former president, all he wants and that’s supposed to be a good thing.

BS

[rainin]

305. Isn't it strange that not everyone heard his words the same? I didn't hear any criticism of Obama.

I heard him say that Obama was successful in spite of flaws in the infrastructure. Obama rose above it, because he was so brilliant! Sounds accurate.

People will hear what they want, I guess, but at the end of the day, it makes no sense to attack Bernie.

Attack trump supporters all you want. We don't need them to win.

[EffieBlack]

315. Maybe you didn't hear the words the same because you're not as attuned to this sort of thing as

some of us who have had to deal with this sort of thing our whole lives?

And maybe, instead of just assuming that because you didn't hear it that way that our interpretation is valid and worthy of consideration and shouldn't be dismissed as "people will hear what they want," you might want to open your mind and listen to what we're saying.

The insistence that we just don't know what we're talking about is the very essence of the problem many of us have with Bernie and his defenders.

[rainin]

318. Read the words.

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

[EffieBlack]

331. I read the words.

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. . . . He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans."


Bernie's saying he was charismatic, a great CANDIDATE, a brilliant GUY (notice he says nothing about what kind of PRESIDENT he was), but the only other thing he can find to say about him is to clearly imply that he was responsible for losses across the country.

And even worse, he told an audience of African Americans on the 50th anniversary of Dr. King's death, that a "business model" that resulted in the election and reelection of the first black president was a "failure.""

You can defend him all you want, but you sound just as tone-deaf as he does. A big part of his problem is the propensity to completely ignore black people's concerns and insist that we're just wrong and he's just right. What you're doing is even worse.

[rainin]

340. So, you're upset about what he "didn't" say, not what he did say.

And now, I'm tone deaf? I'm not agreeing with your interpretation.

Plus, did you notice that we lost seats across the country?

[EffieBlack]

357. Yes, you are completely tone-deaf

But keep it up if that's your bent. But no matter how much you love and defend him, Bernie's done. He was already a nonstarter, but his comments last night, no matter how much YOU don't get them, were heard loud and clear by African Americans. And whether you get it or not, devoted Berners aren't enough to get him the nomination - something he cannot do without strong African-American support.

So y'all can mock and make sarcastic comments and dismiss what we're saying to your hearts' content but that won't get Bernie a single additional vote from our community.

[Demsrule86]

439. Did you notice a little thing called a gerrymander?

We actually took more votes in most years during Obama's tenure.

[TCJ70]

351. You skipped a part in your ellipsis...

...ya know, the part that says this:

Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012.

Also, he said 15 years, not 10, taking us back BEFORE Obama's presidency. The subject is clearly legislative seats, not the presidency, and in no way is the election of Obama being painted as a failure. The opposite, in fact. If you're going to quote someone and cut stuff out, at least get the part you leave in correct.

There's also this part, which encourages people to vote for Democrats:

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!

[EffieBlack]

393. When you have to go through this much trouble to explain your guy's words, he screwed up

We all heard him.

And the problem facing him is that, rather than actually listen to people he offended to better understand how his comments are received, he and his defenders will continue to insist that HE is right, HE didn't say anything wrong and anyone who disagrees with him is a hater or wants to be divisive or just can't understand him - a rather foolish approach for a politician to take with people he should want to vote for him.

And since Bernie has shown no indication that he plans to stop talking, he's going to keep making stupid comments like this and won't ever learn from them because, he already knows everything he needs to know and the rest of us are wrong.

But the rest of us are the ones voting, so that approach is not going to work out too well for him.

[TCJ70]

457. Lets review what he said:

1. Obama’s great
2. Dems have faced losses due to strategic errors
3. We’ve made gains recently
4. We vote. We win.

Where is he wrong?

[EffieBlack]

470. Nice spin

But that's not what he said.

As I said, if you have to go through this much trouble to try to convince people "what he really said was ...", you've already lost the thread.

[TCJ70]

516. I never said what he really said was... I mean, youre the one who had to cut it up...

...albeit, incorrectly, to make you’re point. Here’s the whole thing in its entirety, with my summary points noted:

Host: Senator Sanders, this is for you. We saw a surge in millennials (with you?). How are you harnessing that energy to engage and sustain millennials in Jackson, Mississippi and how are doing the same to reimagine the Democratic party?

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because [1] there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, [2] over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

[4] So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! [3] It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

1. Obama’s great
2. Dems have faced losses due to strategic errors
3. We’ve made gains recently
4. We vote. We win.

No spin. Just the words spoken.

[sheshe2]

423. If Obama was doing such a fantastic job, according to Sanders.

Then why did he call for him to have a primary challenger??

[TCJ70]

454. Why not? Are primaries a good thing or a bad thing?

A primary challenge isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

[Demsrule86]

475. A very very bad thing for a sitting president...no Democrat will generally run against a sitting

president because we lose...the last one was Kennedy when Carter was president and look how that turned out.

[sheshe2]

517. So BS says he is doing a fantastic job....awesome man!

Charismatic...awesome!!!

Then....primary him. Lol! Lol! Lol!



And you think this is a good thing? Oy.

Soooooooooooooooooo................

TCJ70
454. Why not? Are primaries a good thing or a bad thing?

A primary challenge isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

[TCJ70]

521. Youre comparing something said about 6 years ago...

...to something said yesterday. We’re done here.

[sheshe2]

523. Ah.

We are done?

Question? BS walking at a march that was about Martin 50 years ago is apparently relevent, yet what he said about Obama 6 years ago is not? I call that selective reasoning and a bunch of bull.

[EffieBlack]

534. Zing!

[uponit7771]

571. Always bad for the incumbent world wide throughout human history and don't

... why people keep asking this

[Cha]

599. NOt for the reasons BS gave.. and, if he wanted it why didn't he

do it himself? Why did he want someone else to do it?

[sheshe2]

639. Primary a sitting President...

That was doing a fantastic job, well liked and charismatic....

...in Bernies own words:

there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy.

Why would he call for this President to face a primary challenger? It makes no sense.

[Cha]

643. Busted!

You win the thread..

Congratulations, she!

[sheshe2]

645. Aloha, Cha.

Mahalo...

[Gothmog]

685. That pissed me off also

[Cha]

598. Yes! I've been meaning to get BS' wanting to have President Obama Primaried in 2012

into the conversation.

BS has always had questionable comments about President Obama.

Thank you, she!

[sheshe2]

640. You are welcome, Cha.

Makes no sense to primary a sitting president when you state...

there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy.

[Cha]

644. Yeah, if those were really compliments like his

fans proclaim.

[Cha]

597. Drop the mic, Effie!

[mcar]

342. Oh yeah

And other good Democrats are criticized all the time on this board and it's just peachy.

Why is this one politician seemingly exempt from criticism?

[Demsrule86]

624. As Democrats, it is time we pay attention to the fact that without Black voters, we can't win.

They are an important demographic...mayb the most important.

[snort]

139. there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate

What a horrible thing to say.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

185. And brilliant too!!! Dastardly!!

[rainin]

306. Yes, horrible!!

[sheshe2]

429. If BS thinks that way...

Then why did he call for a primary challenger for 2012? Doesn't match with what you say he said.

snort
139. there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate

What a horrible thing to say.

So...BS actually said that Obama was charismatic and an extraordinary candidate....yet back in 2011 calls for him to be primaried because..

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders continues to argue that a Democratic primary challenge to President Obama would be “good for democracy and for the Democratic Party.”

Hmm, doesn't at all match with what you said he meant. I have no clue how one could go from primary the sitting President to....Obama was charismatic and an extraordinary candidate. Do we always call on extraordinary candidates to be primaried, or just Obama?

[sheshe2]

695. If it was sincere as you say...

Why the hell did Bernie call for this charismatic, brilliant man to be primaried? Hmmmm. I await your response. Something is a little off here.

[John Fante]

217. Obama was the leader of the party during those eight years, was he not?

Bernie basically said that Obama was so charismatic that no one noticed that the democratic party went to shit under his watch. That doesn't sound complimentary no matter how it's interpreted.

[sheshe2]

275. +1000

[EffieBlack]

320. Thank you

The reactions to this comment - and to the reactions of those of us who are offended by it - demonstrate perfectly the problem that Bernie Sanders has with POC.

[Nanjeanne]

385. 15 years or so is 2003 or earlier. Obama became Pres in 2009 so no thats not what he

was saying.

[sheshe2]

433. Well it certainly covers eight of the fifteen years.

So of the 15 years he mentioned we get to subtract the 8 for Obama because he was most certainly not talking about Obama??? What?!

[Nanjeanne]

456. Yes but what does that have to do with it? Who said he wasn't talking about Obama? He wasn't

blaming Obama or calling him a lightweight. All he was saying was that for 15 years or so (pre-Obama) the Democratic Party had been losing state and local elections even during a period with a brilliant and charismatic leader like Obama.

In answer to your What? I'd say "what" is that if you already have decided how you feel about someone so strongly - no person responding to you - nor actually reading or watching the actual words will help you understand.

[sheshe2]

466. No sorry.

Nanjeanne

456. Yes but what does that have to do with it? Who said he wasn't talking about Obama? He wasn't

It is clear the eight years of Obama is there. He stated 15 years and that includes Obama's eight. I have no clue why you say BS did not mean what he most certainly said.

blaming Obama or calling him a lightweight. All he was saying was that for 15 years or so (pre-Obama) the Democratic Party had been losing state and local elections even during a period with a brilliant and charismatic leader like Obama.

If BS truly believed that Obama was charismatic and a brilliant candidate...why advocate a primary challenge? Hm? Why?

In answer to your What? I'd say "what" is that if you already have decided how you feel about someone so strongly - no person responding to you - nor actually reading or watching the actual words will help you understand.

Back at you. Reading your post...I am the one listening. I understand the actual words he says, perfectly.

[Nanjeanne]

543. No need to apologize. Everyone deserves an opinion.

[sheshe2]

547. Lol...it wasn't an apology.

I see you were unable to answer, sad that.

[Nanjeanne]

555. Oh Im sorry. I didnt bother reading beyond the apology. I didnt think you really

were interested in dialogue. Still don’t.

[sheshe2]

560. If you didn't read beyond the title

Nanjeanne
555. Oh Im sorry. I didnt bother reading beyond the apology.

I didnt think you really

were interested in dialogue. Still don’t.

How could you possibly know the content to make an educated decision on answering or not if you did not read past my header? Hmm?

[Nanjeanne]

561. So sorry but I havent a clue what you are talking about. I think we are done now.

[sheshe2]

562. lol

night.

[EffieBlack]

545. Why even mention Obama then?

He was criticizing the Democratic Party's actions, calling the party a 15-year failure. If he wasn't also criticizing Obama, why even mention him, much less, damn him with false praise?

I think it's very clear that this was a slap at Obama - and not the first time he's done this.

And if it wasn't, Sanders needs to work on his communications skills so that he can express himself clearly without leaving himself open to misinterpretation by large segments of his listeners.

[John Fante]

455. 15 years would include 2006 and 2008.

Banner years for the Democratic party. Kerry lost in '04, but that was a narrow defeat to an incumbent whose popularity was still in the 50% range.

Pretty clear which years Sanders was keying in on, 2009-2016. Maybe that's why he wanted Obama primaried in 2012?

[Nanjeanne]

458. Okey dokey. If it's pretty clear to you what he was saying then have at it!

[IronLionZion]

219. This dark chocolate DUer agrees

It sounded like Obama was one bright success in a decade and a half of Democratic party election losses. Bernie was suggesting we need to do better in congressional elections and state legislatures and everywhere.

[TCJ70]

237. The whole transcript puts it in context which makes a ton more sense:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10453345

[betsuni]

564. Could you please give an example of the "corporatism in the Democratic Party"?

I'm not sure what this means.

[BannonsLiver]

16. The hatred and jealousy of Obama has been evident for a while now.

[Initech]

22. Yeah they're mad because Obama was 1,000,000 times better than they will ever be!

[Demsrule86]

413. I agree...Pres. Obama had little to do with the house or state legislature losses.

As often happens the midterms were a disaster and the ACA made it worse. And then the GOP gerrymandered the house seats and legislature seats because of the census. We would have had the House back otherwise. And consider that beating up the party ahead of 18 is wrong. I am so angry.

[ecstatic]

585. Yep. From both Sanders and trump. Ironically,

one particular person who could have easily hated/been jealous of Pres. Obama was just as gracious and supportive as can be. I get that that's not a trait that Americans respect or even recognize. Oh well.

[LexVegas]

19. Anyone surprised after his dismissal of southern state Democratic primaries?

[beerandjesus]

104. Didn't happen. You must not have been paying attention in 2016.

[LexVegas]

119. Yes it did. nt

[all american girl]

131. Yes he did

Some of the things he said:
called southern voters the confederacy
the south "destroys reality"
most conservative in the country (during the dem primary, who happen to be pretty liberal)

So yeah, he insulted and dismissed AA voters. Insulting Obama and the democrats during MLK50 day will not win him any AA voters. Blaming democrats and not gerrymandering, the destruction of voting rights, ID laws, etc, is insulting.

[brush]

252. Exactly...you hit nail on the head. Some have selective memory of what happened. His neglect...

of the southern primaries and AA voters there is why Hillary had the insurmountable lead in delegates and super delegates.

[Docreed2003]

445. The crazy thing is

He was offered the help of AA leaders leading up to the SC primary and refused their assistance. Mark Thompson tried multiple times to bring him into his XM radio show and was turned down. Just completely clueless and out of touch, and speaks volumes to me at least

[ehrnst]

233. It did. I was. (nt)

[Blue_true]

323. It did happen. Bernie called the southern states former slavery states after Clinton beat him

soundly there. The problem with Bernie's claim is that African Americans make up the majority of southern democrats and they powered Clinton's victories
There. Bernie's dismissal was an insult to southern Blacks, he basically said they did not matter.

[Gothmog]

673. I live in one of these state and I remember these comments by Sanders

[mcar]

348. It sure did happen

[sheshe2]

434. Oh yes he did and oh yes I was.

[emulatorloo]

574. The gaslighting is getting tiresome. Please stop it.

[Gothmog]

686. Where is the gaslighting? Sanders made the comments that are described in this thread

[emulatorloo]

690. I know Sanders made those comments. Please note who I replied to

Thank you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. We need to move on...

[Eliot Rosewater]

50. Cant when someone is actively engaged in purifying the party which will elect

more cons.

BTW, open primaries in CA and elsewhere only help GOP and progressives, not Democrats. I think we know who is behind open primaries.

[NurseJackie]

86. What's this "we" nonsense? In reality what "WE" need to do is to speak out in defense...

What's this "we" nonsense? In reality what "WE" need to do is to speak out in defense of the Democratic Party whenever people tell lies and denigrate the Democratic Party. The things he's saying are divisive. They denigrate and weaken the party. And in so doing, it strengthens and emboldens the GOP.

We need to move on...

Move on from what? Based on earlier posts from you, it's clear that you're implying "move on from the primaries" ... however, I have to be honest with you and point out that when people respond to his attacks on Democrats (ie: the things he says and does in 2018) that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the primaries.

When you tell us to "move on" you're actually telling us to remain silent and let him sully the reputation of the Democratic party. (This may come as a surprise and disappointment do you, but that type of finger-wagging is NOT going to silence people or dissuade us from speaking out against the attacks on the party.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. I have judiciously avoided attacking Bernie since the election

I have judiciously avoided attacking Bernie since the election and ignored his provocations. My fondest hope is that he just goes away and maybe by ignoring him the chances of him going away will increase.

[NurseJackie]

129. Good for you!

92. I have judiciously avoided attacking Bernie since the election

Good for you! Thumbs up! Sadly, that's totally irrelevant.

Another thing that's "sad" is the certainty that when a LIE goes unanswered it becomes perceived as the truth.

When we neglect to defend Democrats and the Democratic party against his continuous attacks and smears, then we are ALLOWING him to tarnish and denigrate the Democratic party. By doing nothing and saying nothing, we're giving our approval to his efforts to divide and weaken the Democratic party.

My fondest hope is that he just goes away and maybe by ignoring him the chances of him going away will increase.

That's unrealistic. It's wishful thinking. I suppose I can see how someone might feel superior with their decision ignore it and "say nothing" in response.

Now, I'm absolutely sure that it's much easier for some people to do absolutely NOTHING and simply indulge their "fondest hope" that the best outcome will materialize, and that any problem will "just goes away" all by itself. (Unfortunately, that approach is rarely successful. Not much good can come for allowing adversaries to walk all over you and take advantage of you.)

Nevertheless, I can assure you that no amount of finger-wagging or disapproval and scolding will deter loyal Democrats from defending our great party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

135. I'm weary. If I never saw or heard from him again it would be too soon.

I am tired of his shtick and more tired of responding to it.

[NurseJackie]

157. Okay... so don't respond to it.

I am tired of his shtick and more tired of responding to it.

Okay... so don't respond to it. Just sit there and keep quiet while the rest of us who care about the Democratic party take a moment to respond to and debunk his smears and attacks. We'll gladly defend the Democratic party.

I get it... it's tiresome. So, if you're "weary" then you should absolutely remain silent. I agree. Do that.

But, don't tell me what to do. Don't scold and find fault in others who want to defend our great party. It's really not fair for you to try and silence others simply because YOU personally are "tired of responding to it".

[lunamagica]

255. Just put "Bernie" and "Sanders" on ignore. But please, don't ask us to remain quiet

that will not happen. We will call him out whenever he attacks us.

I'm weary too. More than that, I'm exhausted, emotionally drained since Nov. '16. I don't think that just looking the other way and ignoring what is happening will help. The man will not go away. He is blind with ambition, and I see him as a clear and present danger.

[Demsrule86]

256. I am with you...constant upheaval like echoing Trump about Amazon...always something...sick of it...

if I never heard a word about him...it would be too soon. I now turn the TV off if he is on...not good for my blood pressure.

[ehrnst]

238. No amount of ignoring him will make that happen.

He will be on every media stage he can, for as long as he can.

[Blue_true]

330. I am afraid that the only way we move on is if Bernie does not run.

It is clear from this thread that if Bernie runs, there are going to be division here. Personally, I hope that neither Bernie nor Joe run, but both seem to be headed toward running.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

398. We need a new generation of leadership. I like Cory Booker.

[Blue_true]

404. Can't agree more that we need younger people. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

416. David Axelrod always says that Americans vote for a a president who is unlike the preceding one.

He couldn't have been more right about David Dennison. We need to nominate someone who is different from Trump in every way imaginable, especially character and temperament.

[EffieBlack]

333. That would be great, but Bernie won't go away.

[pazzyanne]

653. BINGO! We have a winner.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

655. My raison d'etre is defeating Trump and Trumpism.

Anything that distracts me from my raison d'etre is unwelcome. I don't even have time to assign blame.

[pazzyanne]

659. If you had read an earlier post I made

you would see that I am firmly in your camp. All of the discussion on this thread is counterproductive to what should be our goal. Namely coming together to gain back Congress in 2018 and the Presidency in 2020.

[David__77]

24. Fake news.

...

[Docreed2003]

25. Hmm...seem to remember a thread here last week

Where many of us were concerned about Bernie using this platform of the MLK remembrance in Jackson for his own means...guess that wasn't far off the mark.

[oasis]

199. "Have Bullhorn Will Travel"

[Docreed2003]

373. Lmao..truth!

[NastyRiffraff]

27. Good!

I've had quite enough of Mr. Sanders and his constant bashing the Democratic Party. Yet, he'll demand the right to run as a Democrat...again. I hope the DNC tells him to go to hell this time.

[left-of-center2012]

28. Geeze! Yet another attack on Bernie. Big yawn.

[NurseJackie]

34. Nobody is attacking Bernie.

Geeze! Yet another attack on Bernie.

[Eliot Rosewater]

55. It was Bernie attacking the Democratic Party, as I recall.

“The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure,” Sanders said.

Now if a member here called the D party a failure, would they continue here?

This is MADNESS!

HOW

MUCH


LONGER

do we have to act like this person is one of us

[NurseJackie]

62. He's certainly not behaving like an "ally" of the Democratic party ... is he?

[Eliot Rosewater]

63. No, but I dont think he ever has but then I have paid very close attention to him for years.

I listened to him weekly talk about how corrupt my party is. That is him saying that, not me.

I think my party is just fine, especially considering the alternative is NAZIS

[Demsrule86]

405. Do you think he may run as an independent?

He has to know he has burned his bridges with Democrats.

[NurseJackie]

417. Too early to tell.

I wouldn't put it past him.

[Demsrule86]

612. With all the criticism of Democrats which has increased really, it doesn't appear he is courting

Democrats for his 'run' in 20. I am quite worried about this. I think no matter if he runs as a Dem or an independent, he helps the Republicans win in 20.

[Cha]

510. Yeah, it's BS' own words that

are the subject.. for attacking the Democratic Party the day after the Big Win in Wisconsin along with all the other WINS.. and going after President Obama on the Anniversary of the assassination of MLK.

Link to tweet

Downplaying all our accomplishments.

That guy really needs to talk to Bernie if he doesn't want this to happen.

Jackie

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. Yep.

[David__77]

56. Bernie Sanders is quite popular on this site! Talking about him is all the rage.

...

[Tavarious Jackson]

69. People of color in Mississippi were offended.

Your yawn dismisses0 them

[left-of-center2012]

100. OMG !

Then please,
allow the daily attacks on Bernie to continue.

I am so sorry.

[R B Garr]

114. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Sanders image is

more important than how his words from yesterday hurt or upset Democrats??

[NurseJackie]

430. Yes. I'm getting the same message as well.

It's not just-you.

[R B Garr]

526. Yup, this completely insulting episode is not going away, either. Yahoo picked

up on it, too. Insulting Democrats, insulting Obama. It's beyond outrageous.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/barack-obama-supporters-outraged-bernie-101219437.html


Jeffrey Wright
✔
@jfreewright


Nah, no, nope...Bernie...didn't go down to Jackson...Mississippi...MLK assassination...50th anniversary...and try to drag...Obama...who ain't perfect...at all. But. Bernie...if you want more than 3 southern black folks voting for you...you TRIPPIN', 'white working class Bernie.'
https://
twitter.com/rubycramer/sta
tus/981706802990546945
…
8:50 PM - Apr 4, 2018

2,457

849 people are talking about th



Ragnarok Lobster
@eclecticbrotha
The hills are alive with the sound of white people explaining why it was OK for Bernie Sanders to travel to Jackson, Ms and shit on Obama's legacy on the 50th anniversary of King's assassination.

11:16 PM - Apr 4, 2018
3,661
1,514 people are talking about this

[NurseJackie]

542. Wow! I think he's really screwed up...

... this isn't going to end well.

[Tavarious Jackson]

345. He is running in 2020

It's fair to vet him

[emulatorloo]

576. Bernies a tough guy, not a delicate flower. Perhaps you should emulate him and grow a thicker skin

[all american girl]

126. So bernie does his usual song and dance

and attacks dems and Obama, on MLK50 day, and we are not allowed to express our opinions that we are tired of it? If bernie wants to play in the big leagues, berners are going to have to get tougher skin. We aren't going to be quiet when we think he is wrong and out of line. To attack the first and only AA president, as if he's not accomplished only charismatic, when bernie has very little accomplishments in his 30 years, he will be called out...we all heard it.

[left-of-center2012]

128. Ho hum

[all american girl]

133. Glad to see you don't care about AA voters

[left-of-center2012]

164. I love American Airlines

and Alcohol Anonymous.



Apparently I must agree with you about Bernie, or I am a racist.

Ho hum



Oh, and bye !

[EffieBlack]

343. And you wonder why African Americans are sick of Sanders

[Blue_true]

347. That kind of closed viewpoint is what we will face if Bernie runs.

I hope against all hope that Bernie does not run, but looks like by all estimates, he will and bring division with him.

[Blue_true]

341. President Obama is rated the 8th most effective President by Presidential

Historians, and Bernie dismisses President Obama as if President Obama was some ohh-shucking, tap-dancing, grinning shoeshine boy. The term "charismatic" when applied to our first Black President was a finger in the eye insult to President Obama and African Americans. If Trump had done the same thing, there would be wall to wall rage here, yet I see some bending over backward to justify what Bernie said.

[RhodeIslandOne]

546. Wow

The fact you gleaned that rather bigoted projection from Sanders calling President Obama “charismatic” says more about you than anyone else.

[Blue_true]

550. If you are right, then why are so many African Americans enraged at Sanders' language?

Take off the rose colored glasses, please.

[RhodeIslandOne]

554. No glasses to take off, I never voted for the guy

But I do object to people who seemed to revel in “having the door opened” to making rather questionable comments about President Obama.

[Blue_true]

559. You didn't respond to anything that I wrote.

I was not opening a door to anything, Bernie did that loud and clear, I was simply pointing out the asinine level of Bernie using "charismatic" in reference to our only Black President, when used in reference to Blacks, the word is a code word that means nothing good, that is why Black people that are posting online are mostly bullshit about Bernie using the term.

[RhodeIslandOne]

583. Weve now determined charismatic is a bad word

Who decided this?

Your use of Stepin’ Fechit charactization and projection is what disgusts me, full stop.

Then again the speech is a typical Rorschach test for those with an agenda on all sides, so par for the course. You’re no more odious about it than anyone else I guess.

[Blue_true]

674. You have little to no concept of American history in regards to race.

Words like "Agreeable", "Docile", "Good", "Charismatic" have a totally different connotation when applied to Black people in specific ways. Sanders used the term "Charismatic" in regards to President Obama is a leadin to a covert claim that President Obama was ineffective or incompetent when it came to preventing losses by democratic officeholders. What Bernie did not do and often fails to do when talking about President Obama and democrats, is delve into issues like republican voter suppression, and the complex economic mess that democrats circa 2009-2014 had to take very difficult votes on to right the country. But Bernie has largely ridden the coat tails of those democrats that had to take difficult votes that they would pay for politically.

[Gothmog]

688. I remember the 2008-2009 great recession

The economic collapse was real and the country was so very very close to a true great depression. The steps that President Obama took to get us out of the economic mess were amazing and were needed. These rankings by historians are a good way to judge the accomplishments of President Obama

President Obama deserves the ranking you describe.

[Blue_true]

692. I remember taking the afternoon off on Inuarguration Day 2009.

Things were bleak, I noticed almost no traffic on the roads where I lived during the mornings at a time that was usually rush hour.

I remember watching President Obama being sworn in. I remember thinking to myself "How in the hell is he going to solve these problems". I was hopeful, but pessimistic. What happened over the next two years was trully amazing. Early in 2010, I noticed more rush hour traffic as people slowly started getting jobs, by early 2011, the economy was moving along well and the world was starting to recover (Eurooe was slow to recover due an austerity craze in Britain, France and Germany, but Germany changed course in the middle of 2010 or there abouts).

[Gothmog]

698. Juanita Jean had an inauguration ball for President Obama's swearing in.

She held this event at Tom DeLay's country club. It was a great event. We had a great time

At the time,I was already seeing the signs of the business slowdown. It was painful

[treestar]

513. He is not a sacred cow

and he does plenty of attacking the Democratic party.

[left-of-center2012]

544. ...

[Anon-C]

29. I knew this was going to happen!

I personally will never ever vote for Bernie Sanders. Ever!

[True Blue American]

161. It has been obvious to me what Bernie

Is after I did the reaserch on his background.

[NurseJackie]

431. There are many people who feel the same way as you.

So it's safe to say that you're definitely not alone.

[scipan]

511. So you're saying if he won the dem nom you wouldn't vote for him?

hmm...

[mcar]

30. He chose MLK50 to dismiss our first AA President?

[Iliyah]

44. Yep.

[NurseJackie]

45. Is it that he just can't help himself? Is his contempt for Democrats and the Democratic party ...

Is it that he just can't help himself? Is his contempt for Democrats and the Democratic party so strong that the urge to denigrate us can't be controlled? Or, is he planning this... is it intentional with malice and forethought?

He's NOT helping that's for sure. That type of behavior is NOT what I'd expect from a supposed "ally" of Democrats.

All I'm saying is that he seems to lack impulse control and that the division he causes only serves to weaken us and empower the GOP. What good purpose does THAT serve?

[Eliot Rosewater]

58. He hates the D party and in fact if you listened to him and Thom Hartmann weekly for YEARS

as I did, you heard the two of them attack the D party almost as much as the R party, sometimes more.

I wish I could go into more detail but as long as he is treated like one of us here, I cant

How is that possible though, LOOK at what he JUST FUCKING SAID

“The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure,” Sanders said.

[Exotica]

61. If we want to win AND have a GREAT POTUS/VP team I humbly suggest

Top of Ticket

1 Michele Obama

or 2 Kamala Harris


and VP for either:


Adm (Ret) William H. McRaven

that ticket would CRUSH Trump or Pence or Ryan or any Republican scum left standing


I post this to you as I think I will soon be banned from here for posting this

cheers and keep up the great work!


#BLUEWAVE2018

[brush]

264. This admiral sounds interesting. Anymore info on him?

[Blue_true]

355. He managed the raid on Bin Laden's compound.

From what I have read about him, he is a thinker, but a badass that led the most elite Special Forces operations. He seems to like and respect President Obama and treasures a gag-gift tape measure that President Obama gave him after McCraven could not find a tape measure to measure the body of Bin Laden when Seals brought it in on that fateful night.

[brush]

372. Sounds like a strong VP candidate.

[Blue_true]

380. He is now a Professor at the University of Texas.

Teaching government policy and leadership. I am not sure about VP, but he would be a good Secretary of State or National Security Advisor, or Head of the CIA, or Secretary of Defense. Highly skilled guy who also is a thinker.

[brush]

392. Ok, that sounds good. I was just thinking his military background our ticket's nat'l sec. appeal.

[TexasTowelie]

678. He was chancellor.

He retired due to health issues. He is certainly worthy of consideration for many positions. I don't believe that he is looking to return to work anywhere. However, presidents can be very persuasive when they make phone calls.

[Exotica]

361. Yes, he is a retired 4 Star Admiral, was head of all Special Ops(JSOC) including the Bin Laden raid

Navy Seal (the highest level, SEAL Team Six), he was also first director of the NATO Special Operations Forces Coordination Centre (NSCC).

Awards
Defense Distinguished Service Medal (3)
Defense Superior Service Medal (2)
Legion of Merit (2)
Bronze Star Medal (2)

Untouchable military record so crushes the chickenhawk Repugs Trump and Pence

He is currently the University of Texas-Austin Chancellor (retiring in May)

Life-long Democrat, he HATES Trump, is pro-choice, for gun control, pro DACA and I think is pro Medicare for ALL

Greatest threat to democracy’: Commander of bin Laden raid slams Trump’s anti-media sentiment

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/02/23/greatest-threat-to-democracy-commander-of-bin-laden-raid-slams-trumps-anti-media-sentiment/?utm_term=.0a1086c8a75d

William H. McRaven, a retired four-star admiral and former Navy SEAL, slammed President Trump’s characterization of the media as “the enemy of the American people,” calling that sentiment the “greatest threat to democracy” he’s ever seen.

That’s coming from a man who’s seen major threats to democracy.

McRaven, who was commander of the secretive Joint Special Operations Command, organized and oversaw the highly risky operation that killed Osama bin Laden almost six years ago. The admiral from Texas had tapped a special unit of Navy SEALs to carry out the May 2011 raid on the elusive terrorist’s hideout, a high-walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, The Washington Post’s Craig Whitlock reported shortly after bin Laden’s death.

McRaven left the military in 2014 after nearly four decades and later became chancellor of the University of Texas System. The UT-Austin alumnus, who has a bachelor’s degree in journalism, addressed a crowd at the university’s Moody College of Communication on Tuesday.

“We must challenge this statement and this sentiment that the news media is the enemy of the American people,” McRaven said, according to the Daily Texan. “This sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime.”

snip


How the Democrats Can Win: Admiral William H. McRaven for President

Bernie is no Obama, but the Democrats may have an ace up the sleeve with the chancellor of the University of Texas System

http://observer.com/2015/11/how-the-democrats-can-win-admiral-william-h-mcraven-for-president/

But the Democrats may have an ace up the sleeve in the person of Admiral William McRaven, formerly of the United States Special Operations Command and today chancellor of the University of Texas System. If the name doesn’t ring a bell, Mr. McRaven was in command of the Special Ops Navy Seal team that tracked down Osama bin Laden, brought him to a quick death and dropped him unceremoniously into the sea. What is also interesting is that he became a kind of celebrity again in 2014 for a commencement speech he gave at UT Austin, which some have said was the best college commencement speech ever heard in a lifetime of listening.

It has long been rumored that he left his job at Special Ops and took the position of chancellor of the UT system to prepare for a possibe job ahead as President Hillary Clinton’s Vice President.

Listen to that commencement speech.

He is an incredibly quick study. He is an enormously appealing individual. Said The Hill when he took the job at UT:

McRaven touches a mythical cord. He is warrior unbeaten and unbroken; did not crash the plane, did not lose the battle, was not taken prisoner. A soldier who personifies an intrepid mythic legacy more in the vein of some in our mother culture; T.E. Lawrence or even Lord Nelson at Trafalgar come to mind. McRaven countervails bin Laden and 9/11, replacing the terrorist’s mythic power with his own inspired and positive karma. His myth must be seen and celebrated in that regard, as it is our myth. It is the legacy of the undefeated and one essential to the rising soul of America.

We need these archetypes. He has appeared recently with a message of some urgency in a Charlie Rose interview.

snip



Former US Navy SEAL admiral who planned Bin Laden raid praises Florida students' courage in wake of school shooting

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/admiral-mcraven-us-navy-seal-praises-florida-student-courage-2018-2?r=US&IR=T

Former US Navy SEAL Admiral Bill McRaven praised the young US citizens who marched for justice in the wake of a tragic school shooting in Florida that left 17 people dead.





Former US Navy SEAL admiral who planned Bin Laden raid praises Florida students' courage in wake of school shooting Follow @BiNordic
Alex Lockie 22 Feb 2018 5:11 PM 503

Retired US Navy Admiral William McRaven at his retirement ceremony in 2014.
SSG Sean K. Harp for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff/Flickr
Bill McRaven, a former US Navy SEAL admiral, praised the courage and drive of students who survived the deadly school shooting in Florida.
McRaven said he "learned to respect and admire their personal courage" of students who have become outspoken advocates of gun control after the tragedy.
While US politicians have remained deadlocked on gun control for years as gun violence reaches epidemic levels, McRaven said: "We adults can learn a lot from" the students.
Former US Navy SEAL Admiral Bill McRaven praised the young US citizens who marched for justice in the wake of a tragic school shooting in Florida that left 17 people dead.


"People are often surprised when I tell them that I am a huge fan of the youth of America," McRaven wrote on Twitter. "But I have witnessed the Millennials in action on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan and I have seen the nation's remarkable teenagers as they work to earn a place in our college classrooms."

McRaven is the former commander of the US Special Operations Command and helped plan the 2011 raid on Osama Bin Laden.

McRaven wrote that he has "learned to respect and admire their personal courage, their perseverance, and their sense of fellowship," but added that his respect has taken on a new character in the wake of the Florida shooting.


"When the classroom became a battlefield, these young Americans seemed to rise to even greater heights; sacrificing their lives for their fellow students, consoling the families of the fallen, inspiring a community to action," wrote McRaven, referring to students, some as young as 15, who died protecting their classmates from gunfire.

snip


President Obama's tribute to Admiral William H. McRaven, USN

[brush]

370. He sounds really strong. The perfect antidote to draft dodger trump. Let's talk him up for VP.

[Exotica]

390. I have brought him up before, I hope he is considered

My mum tipped me off to him years ago when we were talking about the 2016 elections in 2014 (she is a dual citizen like me (UK/USA) My father is hard left Labour, and not a US citizen (Brit, obviously), so cannot vote, although he loves to voice his opinion lol. The ironic thing is that he is back in California, and we are in the EU/UK for now.

[brush]

397. Pls keep posting. That's good info on the admiral.

[Exotica]

408. I will. It is buried in this monster thread.

He would lend a large amount of intangibles to the ticket and I sooooo wanna see those gutless bawbags Trump/Pence try to paint an ex Seal Team Six member and a 4 star JSOC commander who took out bin Laden as "weak".

[TexasTowelie]

588. McRaven retired due to recent health issues

so I expect that he wouldn't offer a spot on the ticket even if offered. However, I agree that he would be an excellent running mate for nearly all Democrats.

I don't believe that Michelle Obama wants to run for political office.

[Exotica]

704. yes, I see now, grrrr, lymphocytic leukaemia

Last edited Sun Apr 8, 2018, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)

fuck all round, hope he recovers

[TexasTowelie]

705. I wasn't aware of that diagnosis--just that he had health issues.

Obviously that precludes him from taking on something as monumental as being a VP candidate. Of course he is a patriot, so he would at least consider a request if it were made out of love for his country. I hope he recovers also.

[Exotica]

706. He has had it since 2010, so its not new. His hospitilisation

a couple months ago (that triggered his retirement from U-T) was due to anaemia associated with the leukaemia .

[mcar]

82. Good questions

He's certainly not helping himself by denigrating the party that gives him such support.

I would have thought it was common sense to refrain from such criticism during an event commemorating MLK.

[brush]

260. Exactamundo. I think you're right about impulse control. He just can't help himself, seems to...

go into stump speech mode and just rattles off attacks on the party automatically.

[NurseJackie]

288. Saying things that damage, divide and weaken the Democratic party is NOT...

Saying things that damage, divide and weaken the Democratic party is NOT the type of behavior one expects from an "ally".

All I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, that's not how an actual ally would behave. It really serves no good purpose for someone to say things that weaken the Democratic party. That only serves to STRENGTHEN the GOP.

It's a fair question to ask: Why would an ally of the Democratic party engage in aggressive behavior and toxic rhetoric that ultimately has the effect of benefiting the GOP?

[brush]

297. Whoa, putting it that way puts it in a whole other light. You're right. Allies don't do that.

Are we talking an ally or not?

[SidDithers]

80. Amazing, eh?...nt

Sid

[mcar]

88. I just can't figure what he thinks he's gaining with this Sid

Boggles my mind, it does.

[TCJ70]

274. No. You're only seeing a small part of what he said.

In no way was Obama dismissed.

[Demsrule86]

418. I listened to it...it is posted. I think Obama was dissed...but we can disagree on that. What is not

in contention is that the Democratic Party was attacked mercilessly in an election year...the midterms are what eight months away and basically he said that the party was shit for the last 15 years. I guess it escaped his notice that a Democrat- Barack Obama -saved our economy, enactacted Daca saved our auto industry with a carefully constructed bankruptcy that was nothing short of miraculous. He saved millions of homes with the FHA refinancing program, worked to get and succeeded in getting gay marriage, allowed Gay and Transgender folks to serve openly in the military, passed a stimulus package and got a healthcare bill...something we have been trying to do for 100 years...yeah the Democrats are just the worst really (sarcasm).

[TCJ70]

520. He encouraged people to vote for Democrats

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!

I guess he should stop that, too. I’m not sure how you missed that part if you saw/read the whole thing.

[EffieBlack]

522. He was asked how he's energizing Millennials and what he's doing to "reimagine" the Democratic party

And his answer was "So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!" and something about opening the door to Millennials.

Wow, Bernie. That's a great strategy. I wonder why no one thought of that before!

As usual, he's all talk, but has no real answers.

[EffieBlack]

528. Here's the entire quote

Now tell me what in my comment was incorrect or out of context or apologize for suggesting I'm a liar.

Host: Senator Sanders, this is for you. We saw a surge in millennials (with you?). How are you harnessing that energy to engage and sustain millennials in Jackson, Mississippi and how are doing the same to reimagine the Democratic party?

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

[TCJ70]

531. Only taking one sentence, or part of a sentence, and suggesting thats the entire thing...

...is the definition of out of context.

[EffieBlack]

540. You need to learn what "context" means

You have yet to note what the entire quote conveys that is different than the quote I cited.

Because you can't. In fact, the entire quote makes even clearer how completely bizarre Bernie's answer was. He was asked about what he was doing to energize Millennials and "reimagine" the Democratic Party and he babbled on and on about what a failure the Democratic Party was over the last 15 years, insulted our first black president and then said Democrats just need to show up and the party needs to open its doors to Millennials.

Please tell me if I left anything out anything he said somewhere in that word salad that actually responded to the question.

As I said, saying Democrats need to "show up" and open the doors to Millennials isn't exactly a game-changing political strategic plan.

[Demsrule86]

606. After calling them names? They are worthless but must win? That is akin to holding your nose and

doesn't get anyone to the polls.

[Corvo Bianco]

35. Why is this thread allowed?

One of the everlasting pillars of DU is that we cannot objectively assess Bernie Sanders.

[LexVegas]

38. ...

[leftstreet]

43. People are still grieving

or something

[Stuart G]

539. Well said!!..grieving..We thought we would win, we lost..grieving correct word..

Sad, out of sorts, mad, lost, call it what you want, or what it is...Our side won. more votes..and
We had a great candidate in 2016..look at the jerk who won?

So grieving is the correct word....the only word.

Our side lost something very important to all of us. The leader of the free world would have been a great woman, instead the leader of the United States is a buffoon..a stupid moron..a rich spoiled 3 year old..

Call him what you want, yes.. we are still grieving...and maybe that is what this is all about..takes time, lots of time............................

[getagrip_already]

112. it's news......

and, it's true.

[tonedevil]

168. Is that what this thread is doing? /nt

[oasis]

184. Yup. Members are not allowed to criticize Demo....oh wait.

[EffieBlack]

529. Am I allowed

to say that I had a post hidden for linking to an opinion piece by an African-American woman criticizing a certain person.

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Two bold lies to start with

Sanders did not call Obama lightweight, he called him an extraordinarily gifted individual. Sanders did not blame Obama for anything. He said because Obama was so personally impressive a lot of people didn't notice that the Democratic Party nationwide did not prosper while he was President - it lost 1,000 legislative seats. Which is completely true. The Presidency was healthy due to Barack Obama, which was good for America. But the Democratic Party has not been healthy. Sanders did not blame Obama. Watch the tape yourself.

[Bradshaw3]

71. Bringing clarity to another Bernie hatefest

Trying to break up all the high-fiveing isn't going to be popular here as the primary is refought over and over by some. November is just seven monts away and we need everybody in the fight. And, yes that includes Bernie, who will campaign for Democrats and vote to caucus with them in what coud come to one vote for control of the senate. But for some it's more important to attack - for things he didn't say.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

77. It's funny how that one crucial caucus vote is always ignored by people obsessed with "teh maths"

[Demsrule86]

420. Nevada again...and what would that have really meant in terms of math?

I would say more but will not rehash the primary.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

481. For people unfamiliar with politics:

Caucusing with The Democratic Party means he votes with The Democratic Party when it comes to choosing who runs The Senate.

For people not paying attention the last 11 years, that one vote has been crucial in both leadership position votes AND important legislation.

But it's only teh maths.

[Demsrule86]

607. One vote ?

I have no problem with his caucusing with us but I absolutely condemn his attacks on the Democratic Party. He is not a member and as such should restrict his comments to policy discussions.

[LiberalLovinLug]

121. Thanks for adding the adult part of the conversation

All this schoolyard taunting against the odd outsider every chance they get is nauseating. And childish.

[alarimer]

41. Sanders is correct.

Under Obama, the Democrats lost over 900+ state seats.

[StevieM]

65. Most were lost in 2010. It was a bad year. We got blamed for the fallout from the Bush/Cheney

recession. That would have happened under any Democrat, unfortunately.

[BannonsLiver]

346. Fueled by ODS

It's funny how the folks who like to shit on Obama and blame him for everything conveniently leave out Obama Derangement Syndrome wherein people lost their shit in ways never seen before because there was a black guy in the White House.

See: The tea party movement, and many many more examples.

That's not directed at you, btw. I'm just talking about some who claim to be progressives.

[Demsrule86]

435. I understand and I agree. I left out ODS...it was a factor...big factor.

[shenmue]

155. Sanders is not correct

[Demsrule86]

262. And that was because of the gerrymander...not the president's fault Sen. Sanders has been around

enough to know the first midterm is rough and when you pass a health care bill or even try as Clinton did...it will be worse. So now he is not right and to say that on a MLK anniversary in Mississippi is just awful. I wish he would go away.

[EffieBlack]

337. Largely because too many progressives got pissed off that Obama didn't give them

a pony in his first two years and refused to vote or insisted on voting third party in the mid-terms "to teach Obama a lesson." And, on the other side, Republicans were freaked out, hepped up and mobilized (remember the Tea Party, right?) precisely BECAUSE Obama had done so much in his first two years that they turned out in huge numbers in response - and, as a result, the Republicans ate our lunch and then redistricted. It certainly wasn't Obama's fault that progressives threw a temper tantrum - he tried to warn y'all.

And then Bernie said President Obama needed to be primaried.

Some people may have forgotten about that, but I haven't.

[mcar]

352. +1000!

[uponit7771]

572. Yep, it was all Obama's fault too nothing to do with gerrymandering and voter suppression kicked

... to 1 million during his term :rolleyes:

[EffieBlack]

578. ... whiny progressives bent on Teaching Obama a lesson because no single payer

[honest.abe]

42. The real failure is Bernie not recognizing who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

Dissing one of our greatest Presidents ever is beyond stupid.

Bernie.. GET LOST.

[Iliyah]

53. That and the constant racist and belittling exposure President Obama and Michelle

had to endure. The constant hatred directly at President Obama and Michelle, and the lies thereon.

[TheSmarterDog]

57. As long as supposed progressives like Sanders keep attacking Democrats & the Democratic Party

We'll never see the Republicans out of power, or a real progressive agenda enacted.

[gratuitous]

64. Yes, the Democratic party is a failure

Democrats just keep getting more votes in election after election, but have been stymied by Republican gerrymandering of districts, and outright theft of elections. Democrats are using the tools available (courts and elections) to undo some of the Republican mischief, but it will take a while because of those built-in handicaps.

If there's a faster, more effective method (short of insurrection) to fix our American system, Democrats are all ears. But boiling down a very complicated situation with myriad moving parts down to a failed business model is simply nonsense.

[Exotica]

73. Voter suppression, CrossCheck, purging, caging are the Rethugs

top weapons. Gerrymandering as you said too.

[brush]

279. Great analysis. Gerrymandering, cheating and vote suppression have been in play and for Sanders...

to chalk it all up to Democratic Party failures just shows his lack of awareness of political reality.

Does he really believe that or he just can't help himself from going automatically into stump speech mode?

Whatever it is he's just in a hole and digging deeper.

[Tavarious Jackson]

66. Bernie should have stuck to the accomplishments of MLK

His speech should have been inspirational. He should not have even mentioned Democrats or Obama, especially in Mississippi.

My 2 cents

[sprinkleeninow]

356. And I'll add my

25¢.
It was another of Sander's continuing move of indiscretion to use the Reverend King's anniversary in saying things if alone 'sincere' or mb tongue-in-cheek.

~sprink
💙🇺🇸🌊

[airmid]

75. I will vote for any person nominated by the Dems...don't care who it is. Trump must go and the GOP

with him.

[wryter2000]

79. I sure hope so

Enough of the backstabbing the Dem party

[R B Garr]

81. Wow, this is so nasty. He is implying that only he has

the “answers” for Democrats, and even a brilliant guy like Obama couldn’t get it done. What a horrible thing to say!

We don’t need this out of control ego mentality anymore! How offensive and divisive.

[kennetha]

84. Bernie basically ran against Obama (in the guise of Clinton) in 2016 primaries already

And many, many in the Democratic party supported him. In effect, they were having buyer's remorse over the last two 2 term democratic presidents... Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ... They want to go forward to ... I don't know the 1930's or something. Back to FDR or at least first term LBJ, before the war went sour .. as if nothing has changed, as if new constraints did not exist, as if wishing it were so could make it so.

That's Bernie and the Bernie Bro's for you!

Frankly I have no use for either.

[R B Garr]

103. +++Yes! I also thought he was also running against Bill Clinton

in a backhanded way with the TPP obsession — a way to kick Clinton/NAFTA. I was immediately suspicious why he never explained anything in context and never blamed Republicans for anything.

[Anon-C]

124. Bernism is the same coin as Trumpism - I fear that they are polished by the same turd! nt

[rainin]

90. This bullshit won't sit well with millions of people dems need to win elections, including young peo

[Exotica]

106. I am pretty young (23) and Bernie doesnt inspire me, he terrifies me because

he is ripping our Democratic party apart to the point were if Mueller and the Rethugs (GOOD LUCK WITH THESE FUCKERS!) do not remove Trump, we may get him again.

I am also a multi-racial PoC, an atheist,and a married lesbian, so I am a multi-minority in many ways, wide open to discrimination on so many levels,and even though I am an expat, I would someday like to live again in my country of birth. I want the thuggery and hate purged from the country at a national, political level, so all of us are not shit on and deprived of our civil rights. Trump and the Republicans will only up all the absolute negatives of decent life to levels that will take decades to repair the social fabric.

If Trump gets 1 or 2 more SCOTUS (he COULD get as many as FOUR more if he is re-elected) appointments, the nation is fucked for decades, especially if he gets to replace Ginsberg and Sotomayor (her diabetes is getting so bad ).

I truly see Bernie as a massive wedge that can make out collective nightmares come true yet again. I wish to hell he would STOP attacking our party!!!!

[LiberalLovinLug]

146. He is not "attacking" the party, he is helping them

I don't understand how someone that is the first to stand up and say that the recent history of the party in elections across the country has not been good, and we need to pay attention to finding out why. And all our losses were in some ways masked by having such a great charismatic leader at the helm during the last term....is a bad thing?!!

If you are learning guitar say, from other family members that can't themselves ever play well or win any talent contests, and after years of struggling to gain any kind of fans on YouTube, someone comes along and tells you that its because you've been doing it wrong, and shows you the right way to improve. And instead of encouraging change, the other family members shout at you "how can you listen to that outsider! He is ATTACKING our family! We know whats best for you! You must never speak to this outsider again and go back to playing how we taught you!"

Or to put it another way, Its not the person that tells you you have spinach in your teeth that is the scoundrel. Its all the people that just ignored it and let you continue on your day in the same state.

It IS all about winning. And Bernie is just concerned about that, and thinks Democrats should be as well. I don't get why anyone would have a problem with that. It called tough love.

[honest.abe]

182. He is "attacking" the party. He called us a failure.

Which is way off target. The "failures" that he states are almost entirely the result of the GOP cheating machine and RW media brainwashing the minds of the electorate. If Bernie wants to help, he needs to attack the real enemy... and its not Democrats and its for sure not Barack Obama.

[LiberalLovinLug]

258. Its not 'way off target' at all

I noticed you used the word "almost" entirely.... Can you then at least see there is some need to rethink the priorities of the party that has been slowly steadily moving away from grass root support and more toward corporate and 1% catering. And that it gives the other side ammunition to call Dems out of touch and elites? At least until the GOP cheating machine and media brainwashing has been solved?

And that before any army attacks the 'real enemy' after battle defeats after battle defeats, they better make sure their weapons are properly oiled, and they have a clear plan, a better plan, for the next battle.

[honest.abe]

285. Bernie is stomping ants while elephants are running around.

And in doing so he is giving the elephants more leverage.

Bernie needs to figure out which team he is on and fight for it.. not against it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

304. Nice analogy

Let me try.

IMO, Bernie is saying to the ants, (probably up on a stage shouting in his monotone grumpy old man voice) Stop running around trying to pretend you are elephants too. Stop just caving in to them by running towards them (tiny) cap in hand and expect different results. Organize, have a better plan. There are more of you than them. Have groups of ants march up their legs and into their ears and eyes. Maybe even listen to that rascally outsider mouse in the corner whose socialist leanings scare the bejesus out of the elephants! Because just running around the feet of the elephants, thinking that they will be 'good elephants' one day, just is not working anymore.

[honest.abe]

317. We are not the ants.

The ants are the relatively tiny "problems" Bernie is focused on while there are huge massive disasters happening right in front of him.

We have a lunatic in the WH who has ambitions to be America's first dictator. That's one big fricking elephant he could focus on right now.

[progressoid]

575. Well, we did lose a hell of a lot of seats in the last decade.

[pnwmom]

190. No, he's not. Our party won the popular vote by 2.9 million and the only reason we didn't win

the election is because we have an electoral college that was set up a couple hundred years ago to support the rural, slave-holding states -- and disenfranchised 2.9 million of us in urban areas.

And while we are stuck with the EC without a constitutional amendment, there is a solution within the power of Congress: to pass a law requiring that the state votes be divided proportionately, not winner-take-all. That ISN'T part of the Constitution and is within our power to change.

[LiberalLovinLug]

222. All well and good

But until that happens, Democrats must have a platform that is inspirational enough, and different enough, and empowering enough to attract enough Democrats to vote. Because we know that if enough Dems vote, we win. It can't be business as usual. Not based on recent history. Obama's popularity bandaid masked the injury well.

Because if we don't win much more, it will be too late.

[pnwmom]

235. We could have lost with a 5 million popular vote win. A 10 million popular vote win.

Mathematically, it is possible for someone to win 270 electoral college votes with only 23% of the popular votes.

What party platform is going to overcome that disadvantage?

With Al Gore we had a 500,000 popular vote win and lost. With Hillary we had a 2.9 million popular vote win and still lost. Hillary only had 70,000 fewer votes than Barack Obama.

What makes you think we could develop another platform that would do better than Barack Obama's?

We should ALL be fighting for proportionate voting, the end of gerrymandering, and the end of voter suppression. Those things are more important than quibbling over specific details of our platform.

[LiberalLovinLug]

291. Its not about developing another platform as it is going back to traditional Democratic party values

And if you believe that we never left those principles, then its about letting the populace know that!


and not in a meek afterthought kind of way, a forceful full on demanding and no wishy washy way. The Democrats have allowed the MSM to propagate the myth that Democrats are out of touch elites that don't care one wit about their fellow Americans, especially blue collar rural Americans. And when you dine with the same scoundrels as the Republicans, you are setting yourself up for them taking advantage of it.

In hockey there is a saying that even if the penalty was a bad or borderline call, you shouldn't put yourself in a position for the refs to make the call in the first place.

[honest.abe]

295. "And when you dine with the same scoundrels as the Republicans"

Here we go again.. Democrats are the same as Republicans crap.

[LiberalLovinLug]

310. "Democrats are the same as Republicans" That was YOUR statement, not mine

just to be clear.

I am saying just the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE we are not the same, that we must show we are not the same. and we must demand that our leaders show it as well.

[honest.abe]

324. Then dont make statements like that.. because they are simply not true.

That's exactly the kind of stuff that turns off our voters. I dont know how many times I heard last election Hillary is no better than Trump so why should I vote.

[LiberalLovinLug]

402. Which one?

going back to traditional Democratic party values?

or that when you dine with the same scoundrels as the Republicans, you are setting yourself up for them taking advantage of it.

I'll assume the latter. Ever since the Clinton era of establishing the "third way" or "triangulation" we have been losing seats. Ever since we have been courting firms like Goldman Sachs as hard or harder than the Republicans, there are forces on the left and on the right that can paint us as arrogant, elitists. Which is so whack considering that that used to be what we could paint the Republicans as. Now they, who have no sense of irony being the biggest corporate shills of any of them, can use those charges against us and spew that image over the hundreds of daytime talk radio stations and Fox fucking News to paint US as the ones trying to harm the average Joe and Jane.

IF we had definite clearly different bold proposals (as Sanders did in the primaries and became the most popular politician because of it) we will win again. We have tried the Republican-Lite strategy, lets try something else.

[honest.abe]

450. Have you learned nothing from the past 16 months of hell under complete GOP control??

Is it not utterly obvious which party cares about the things we as Democrats hold dear and which one does not???

I find it shocking that many still cannot see it.

Over and out.

[pnwmom]

326. The Democrats were making that message but they were having to fight non-Democrats

and temporary-Democrats who were disputing that message.

[pnwmom]

319. People like Bernie, a non-Democrat, are propagating that message. And he continues to do so

in the way he disparages Barack Obama, one of our greatest Presidents.

[Demsrule86]

438. Over a cliff maybe...attacking the Democratic party during must win midterm is not helping us

except perhaps over a cliff...

[pnwmom]

181. I think you are right, Exotica, about all of this. Thank you for being part of the discussion.

I am encouraged to see more and more young people actively involved, and aware of how much politics touches their real lives.

[Exotica]

512. the stakes for our nation are so so fucking high! I think half of the Sanderites think it

is one big piss take. They will just toss the toys out the pram and say oh well, at least we didn't elect a centrist or whatever slur-of-the-week they use for anyone to the right of your typical bookstore Trotskyite rambler or Green Party USA moonbat purist/secret Putie-lover.

Meanwhile Trumps second term will set the stage for decades of tyranny, hate and ruination I do not think the country has ever seen since the Civil War.

That scares the fuck out of me.

[stranger81]

293. Well, it seems like the Bernie-hating contingent thinks

they have 2018 all sewn up without the 40% of the party who voted for Sen. Sanders in the 2016 primaries. Just like before, when this board was awash in an endless chorus of "we don't need you or your votes."

I guess we'll see how that works out for them -- again. Doubling down on the same failed strategy as 2016 seems ill advised to me, but haters gonna hate, I guess.

[infullview]

93. Not Bernie. Too old, and out of touch.

I believe Barack Obama came to the White House with the best intentions. It was plainly obvious when McTurtle stated that the repugs were going to block everything he wanted - including legislation that they themselves wrote - that their goal was to knock this guy down because he was black, and brazen enough to aspire to be president. I call this systemic bigotry and it exists in the party of old, rich white men.

[jalan48]

94. Whew! Glad we have another Bernie thread to excite us. I thought it might be a boring day.

[beerandjesus]

95. Bakari is dead to me...

...and so is any other "Democrat" who thinks it's cute to pretend Bernie is racist.

Seriously. If you're playing that game, you're a liar, and you can go straight to hell.

[disillusioned73]

138. Bakari works for the network..

that helped put Trump in office.. among many other corporate networks, their "opinions" are suspect at best..

[beerandjesus]

231. It's tragic. I live in South Carolina, and I've met Bakari Sellers.

I can remember when he had a soul. It wasn't all that long ago!

[EffieBlack]

350. And John Lewis is a sellout and Jim Clyburn is, too, and blah blah blah

Yes, we know. Any black person with the temerity to criticize St. Bernie must be corrupt or stupid.

Gotcha...

[EffieBlack]

462. Yes, there I go playing that old race card in a thread about race. Sneaky me

[Fresh_Start]

96. So an elder statesman with no real accomplishments to his name

other than being charismatic to some people...wants to criticize 44 for being charismatic, intelligent, and a role model for young minorities?

So Bernie..other than being able to give a speech (Trump can also rile up his supporters, BTW)...what exactly do you have to offer?

[murielm99]

115. I don't consider him an elder statesman.

He would need accomplishments for that.

For all the years he has served in the House and Senate, he has never had POC serve on his staff. He had them on his presidential campaign, but not before that. And yet he was a towering figure of support for the civil rights movement?

And he goes to Mississippi? When he does not deign to hire POC?

Bernie's speeches are rehashed criticisms of the Democratic Party.

He does not need to travel to do his work. If my Senators, Duckworth and Durbin, were gallivanting the countryside for no good reason, I would be very critical of them.

[Fresh_Start]

125. hopefully the people of vermont will begin to demand better from him

but i wouldn't count on it

[ehrnst]

247. His rating among Vermonters went down from September 2016 and has stayed there.

As per the Morning Consult poll that is often mentioned here on DU.

[Orsino]

97. Hate Bernie if you want, but this seems to be invented spin.

Without a transcript, I'm gonna guess that Sanders didn't use the word "lightweight" nor any synonym, and that he didn't blame President Obama for anything in particular.

His old failure-of-the-Democratic-business-model line, though, isn't particularly helpful. Our failure to win majorities is well-documented, but corruption and GOP malfeasance are more to blame than is our party's neglect of the poor and middle classes. We still have the better agenda, one that looks to be getting better.

Bernie 2020 is a fantasy, and Sellers looks foolish struggling with it.

[David__77]

110. "Lightweight" is sleazy spin by this political operative, not what Sanders said.

...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

142. Yep. The video is clear as is the applause.

Some political operative adds his bullshit spin and rawstory benefits from clickbait headlines.

Say what you want about Sanders. But he isn't stupid. He wouldn't diss President Obama like that and in that venue. He didn't call President Obama a lightweight.

That doesn't mean some political operative won't spin it and lie on twitter.

[oberliner]

99. This is Raw Story stealing content from CNN and adding a click-bait headline

Seems to be working.

[Cryptoad]

101. Wish comes true,,,,,,,,,

Putin-GOP wish that this shitpot is stirred daily!

[Anon-C]

344. Yes. How convient it always is. nt

[Jim Lane]

113. I'll offer my own prediction.

I make no prediction about Bernie 2020. My prescience is less pretentious.

Here's my prediction: Even though Bernie 2020 has now officially been pronounced dead, DU will continue to see a constant stream of posts bashing Bernie about this, that, and the other thing.

Bonus prediction: Some of these threads will include posts from members lamenting that they can't criticize Bernie on DU.

But, on the optimistic side: Many DU members, whether or not they voted for Bernie in the primaries, will continue to see him (like Hillary) as being on the right side, namely that of resisting Trump in particular and the conservative side of American politics in general.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

116. I have no animus toward him but I am tired of him.

[Me.]

118. ThIs Is Pure BS

so why is anyone surprised...he's made it quite clear Dems are only there is be used by him for his benefit and after that, he and OR feel leave to kick it around as much as possible, even agreeing with the Comrade in the WH or supporting people running in Con primaries. Then there's the dunderheaded move of speaking in such an ill-considered manner on a truly important day but then we've already had large helpings of what he considers 'identity politics'.

[bronxiteforever]

122. I self edited after reading posts that this argument supports the GOP

I agree with that and I desire nothing but a united front against the GOP. Hence I believe I was wrong.
2020 is a lifetime away in Cheeto tweets. There will be plenty of time for us to discuss 2020, assuming Bolton doesn’t blow us up. So I say peace.

[disillusioned73]

130. Breaking news..

CNN contributor speaks for the WHOLE Democratic party..

[geardaddy]

136. You lost me Bernie

You lost me quite a while ago.

[Sophia4]

137. The election results in 2016 speak for themselves.

[EffieBlack]

349. You mean Bernie not even making it into the finals?

And Hillary getting three million more votes than Trump?

[Sophia4]

409. We have lost state government upon state government plus the House and the Senate.

Hopefully, we will make strides toward repairing the damage done over the last 40 or so years this fall.

The presidency is not the whole story unfortunately.

We should gladly accept criticism. Once we have won the majority of state government positions and the House and Senate, then we can be proud of ourselves. Until then, we should welcome criticism because we are doing something wrong. Democrats should be the dominant party.

[NurseJackie]

425. LOL! GMAFB, will ya?

We should gladly accept criticism.

Yeah right! Because "vote for Democrats, they suck" is such a positive and uplifting and motivating message! There will be lines of people snaking around the block registering as Democrats because Bernie's message that "Democrats are feeble and ideologically bankrupt" is the so inspiring.

That's the WINNING message that will cause people to FLOCK to become Democrats and to vote for Democrats.

Until then, we should welcome criticism because we are doing something wrong.

You can call it "criticism" all you want, but that doesn't make it true. He's not criticizing, he's attacking. There's no critique, it's just smears that divide, denigrate and weaken the party. It's fooling nobody. (Well, it's not fooling intelligent people.)

[Sophia4]

492. Pride cometh before the fall.

It's always good to be open to learning from criticism no matter how painful.

[NurseJackie]

499. Insults are not criticism.

[Sophia4]

506. The governors in 33 out of 50 of our states are Republicans.

That leaves 17 Democratic governors.

That's failure.

I expect the elections this Fall to improve those numbers for Democrats.

Still, we Democrats should listen to all criticism.

Being able to take criticism is the trait of a person (or political party) that succeeds.

Even though Hillary won about 3 million more votes than Trump, Democrats have not been succeeding for many years, decades even, when it comes to winning statehouses, the Senate and the House.

We need to open our ears, our hearts and our minds and listen carefully to all criticisms of us and then based on our values decide what changes we need to make in our Party.

I don't know myself. But our failures are pretty frightening. We need a lot of self-examination and learning.

[NurseJackie]

507. Insults are not criticism.

[R B Garr]

661. Then why can't we criticize Bernie? In the name of improvement, of course.

That's how it's easy to see your so-called "criticisms" of Democrats is really just a way to promote One Man. A man who already lost among Democrats, so you should take your own advice about "listening."

[Sophia4]

669. We should be very careful about our criticisms of all Democrats.

And we should spend our time talking about potential candidates for national and local offices who are new to the game, who have not been previously considered.

We should also talk about issues.

It's not that Bernie is a forbidden or censored topic. It's that we should not be making knee-jerk comments about any liberal, progressive, Democratic politicians.

[R B Garr]

670. Now it's apparent you are not serious. Your previous post was full of criticisms

for Democrats. What you are saying is don't criticize Bernie. My point stands about how you can't be serious of your criticisms of Democrats -- it's about One Man and how to manage his image. Your criticisms are not meant to be credible or valid.

This kind of arbitrariness about who gets criticized is very transparent and laughable at this point.

[Sophia4]

672. The knee-jerk criticisms of certain politicians here smacks of trolling.

Let's be open to new opinions, and let's accept the fact that, in a healthy, democratic society, a primary election will include many different candidates with different points of view. And then after the primary, let's be inclusive with regard to losing candidates.

If we don't do that, then we become irrelevant as a party. The idea of a party is diversity within the party. If our Democratic Party is to be rigidly one party behind one candidate, and anyone else who runs is viewed as an usurper, we don't have a party, we have a clique, and we don't get elected.

To have a healthy Democratic Party, we need diversity in our primaries. That gives us choices. We should not always have the same party choices. This is especially true in very red states. We need to make our primaries and our election candidates exciting. The nomination should be exciting and inclusive whether we are talking about a presidential race or a school board or city council race. And after the nomination, all who ran in the primaries should be respected for running and heard and included. That's the way to run a winning Party. It is not what personalities run. It is not a matter of hating one who challenges. It is a matter of being a "big tent" inclusive party. It seems to be difficult now for people to do this. But I recall that when, say Truman, was nominated for the vice presidency, he was not the first choice of many, many Democrats. Many wanted, I think the name was Henry Wallace. (I was a baby, but have heard the story very often.)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_vice_presidential_candidate_selection,_1944)

Some Democrats were very disappointed. But they came together and elected the ticket anyway.

When a losing primary candidate becomes such a hated figure, it really destroys the unity of the party. And it distracts from the important issues we all have to vote on.

I think it is very counterproductive.

What is to be gained by spending so much angry time dealing with a personality who actually agrees with us on many issues? What is to be gained by focusing hatred on someone just for running in a primary? And don't we have a lot to gain, on the other hand, by opening up our Party and making, in this specific case, Bernie supporters, but in any case, the supporters of any losing but controversial primary candidate, welcome.

The future should be the focus. There will be many primary challenges. The bitterness is tearing a section of what would be our Party away from us. This is counterproductive. It simply does not strengthen the Democratic Party. It weakens us.

[R B Garr]

699. Now I know for 200% certain you are not serious. Speaking of trolling, anyone can see

the posts on that JPR website. I've seen plenty of them, so it's rather absurd for you to be pointing fingers about "trolling."

I voted for Hillary -- you?? The reason I ask is that it's important to establish priorities about who we take advice from and who is just being a hypocrite. If you are truly concerned about being counterproductive, then promoting a group that shunned our elected nominee is what was counterproductive. It would be great if those who engaged in that destructive behavior admitted their mistake and took responsibility instead of turning that anger again towards fellow Democrats who did, in fact, vote for Hillary. It is the anti-Hillary crowd that attracted the Russians who capitalized on the divisiveness. Promoting irrational behavior like that is what is counter-productive. Voting for the Democratic nominee is not counterproductive. Blaming a protest vote against Hillary is counter-productive when it was a deliberate act to sabotage our nominee from taking the White House.

You should take your own advice about forcing primary personalities. No one should be forced to listen to someone badmouth our party or to diminish an iconic ex-President like Obama as Bernie did yesterday. That strategy lost already, and we see now that the Russian's specifically targeted gullible people who were susceptible to the type of propaganda you are promoting -- that of a constant undermining of Democrats and blaming people who are offended by comments that denigrate our party. Enough grandstanding and negativity. We don't need that. We need someone who is proud to be a Democrat and won't just use the party for resources without contributing when it is useful for them. We need commitment and common sense. Constant belittling of Democrats is just fodder for the disrupters like the Russians.

You should read the Mueller indictments. You will see there that the methodology of how Bernie supporters were targeted actually sounds very similar to your posts. I am very serious, actually. Look at what is happening now with Facebook and how they were also targeted by the Russians since they literally had access to millions more people. You should read how Facebook users were microtargeted and fed the same type of negativity and misinformation that you are promoting.

Again, your previous posts contradict this newfound direction of not criticizing anyone in the party. What you mean is that you don't want Bernie to be criticized, but it's open season on anyone or anything else. That isn't even rational anymore considering his recent TV appearance didn't go well with a large segment of a mainstay of Democratic party voters -- African Americans. Bernie needs to quit alienating Democrats. There is no excuse for it; it's damaging and really needs to stop. THAT is what is counter-productive.

[EffieBlack]

500. Unless that criticism is directed at Bernie Sanders

Then it's insulting, an attack, off-limits, etc., no matter how mild or well-intentioned or accurate the criticism.

But he can backhand our former president, trash the Democratic Party as a failure, hijack a Martin Luther King commemoration, completely and embarrassingly mangle the history of the Memphis Sanitation Strike, but if anyone says anything about it WE'RE the problem.

Gotcha.

[Cha]

596. I told her..

she ".. should gladly accept criticism.." of BS.. he's not immune to having his attacks criticized.

[Cha]

595. You should "gladly accept criticism" of BS

News Flash.. he's not immune to having his attacks criticized.

[uponit7771]

573. You mean the ones the Russians helped Trump with?

[Sophia4]

577. And before that.

33 out of 50 governors are Republicans.

That's from Wikipedia.

And the Senate and House should have mostly and most often Democratic majorities.

If the Democratic Party had a good platform and stood for its ideals, we Democrats would be the dominant, majority party in the country.

[JCanete]

140. extordinary candidate brilliant guy....ouch. And what he said is what he belives,

is this person suggesting that what Sanders should have been doing is to pander to his audience? I haven't even watched this yet, but I will now, and I'll add my thoughts, but gee wilikers...

You can appreciate somebody's positive achievements and still be frustrated with what you think they didn't do well, and it doesn't pay to pretend otherwise if this is what you actually think. This should only doom his 2020 ambitions with these voters if they think he's wrong about his assessment, not because he said it at all. That's silly.

[snort]

145. Another bullshit post.

Color me suspicious that it's being lofted by recent joins.

[Exotica]

684. I am 23, so I don't care if I am new, it's not like I cared to be posting on political

chatboards when I was 13 or 14!! (the year Obama was first elected).

[meadowlark5]

149. If Bernie is the nominee for 2020 - the only reason I will vote for him, totally singular issue

He can't be as bad as Trump and his band of thieves in the white house. I don't like Bernie anymore. I used to, but I, honestly, can't stand him. So if by some far off chance he is the nominee that is the ONLY reason I'd vote for him. However, if I were like his followers, I couldn't possibly bring myself to vote for him. But I'm not a purist and can see beyond the person and my own opinion and likes or dislikes of them. I wish that had happened in 2016.

[David__77]

358. I think lots of people voted for Clinton in 2016 on similar bases.

...

[meadowlark5]

444. Obviously not enough

[Blue_Tires]

150. Well, people have short memories but Bernie really hurt himself

I realize he isn't getting the best advice from the people around him, but his lack of optics are truly appalling and he is singlehandedly killing the revisionist narrative that he would have cruised to an easy victory against Trump...

[LisaM]

215. I believe he thrives off a divide and conquer strategy with the Democrats.....

because every time the Democrats start to get traction (e.g., the "blue wave", in particular a hugely significant victory in Wisconsin), he goes back to stir up the pot. You can practically time it.

The Democrats have momentum and have been winning elections, but it doesn't suit Bernie's narrative to have a reinvigorated and successful DNC, especially since his preferred candidate didn't get the chairmanship.

[Blue_Tires]

244. +1

[stevenleser]

290. It's interesting how recycled this is, if you read ehrnst's #272 above you can see it

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10453669

[George II]

151. Bakari Sellers doesn't pull any punches.

Sanders isn't going to be able to evade the income tax return issue this time around.

[oasis]

152. Surely, Susan Sarandon, Cornel West, Tulsi Gabbard & Nina Turner

will distance themselves from Bernie.

[muriel_volestrangler]

154. Full transcript, because Travis Gettys is lying, and you have to wonder about his motives

Host: Senator Sanders, this is for you. We saw a surge in millennials (with you?). How are you harnessing that energy to engage and sustain millennials in Jackson, Mississippi and how are doing the same to reimagine the Democratic party?

Sanders: The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

---

Sellers mischaracterises that as "dismissing" Obama, and Gettys invents the "lightweight" slur.

[R B Garr]

171. He was definitely dissing Obama. He said that even Obama

couldn’t get it done. Only his millionaires/billionaires speech will save us. It was a definite diss. It was a universal diminishment of Democrats, Obama included. This is outrageous.

[muriel_volestrangler]

176. Please post the clip where he said "even Obama couldn't get it done"

You know it's not in the clip in the OP. I typed it out for you.

I laugh at your 'outrage'. And despair, when you're so ready to leap in on an attempt by Gettys to damage the Democratic vote.

[R B Garr]

335. Where is the quote that says

I want to “damage the Democratic vote” (your words). There is none. You made that up. Anyone can play that useless word-for-word-post-a-link game. The first sentence after he stood up was to bash Democrats. You don’t get to interpret for all of us what we can see and hear for ourselves.

[muriel_volestrangler]

339. I said Gettys wants to damage the Democratic vote.

So, where is that quote?

[R B Garr]

422. Anyone can play the word-for-word-post-a-link game. You called people liars,

but no one is lying. If you don't know the Tweet he was referencing, just say so. What is laughable is that you did accuse me of trying to destroy the Democratic vote, so you're obviously fine with going off script, so it's strange you can't abide it when someone takes offense to some extremely offensive accusations about Obama.

Here's the Tweet. Obama was dismissed. That is how it was taken. You don't get to call people liars just because you don't like it that Bernie was called out on his negativity towards an ex-President and my Party.

Bakari Sellers
✔
@Bakari_Sellers


Y’all can defend Bernie all you want. On #MLK50 his lack of self awareness and arrogance in dismissing #44, is wild.

Bernie 2020 died 4/4/18.
https://
twitter.com/rubycramer/sta
tus/981706802990546945
…
5:59 AM - Apr 5, 2018

4,335

1,889 people a

[muriel_volestrangler]

426. Yeah, Gettys lied. Sellers mischaracterised what Sanders said. And I never accused you

of trying to destroy the Democratic vote.

The tweet is not what Sanders said. It's Sellers, getting it wrong, on purpose.

Here's what I said about damaging the Democratic vote:

"you're so ready to leap in on an attempt by Gettys to damage the Democratic vote"

The article by Gettys is the attempt to damage the Democratic vote. "By Gettys". Clear? You are, sadly, defending the arsehole, though. Read what Sanders said, not what Gettys wrote.

[R B Garr]

432. You keep going in and out of this word-for-word game when it suits your purposes.

Your clear implication was that I was also trying to damage the Democratic vote by "you're so ready to leap in on an attempt by Gettys." You are clearly trying to malign me by association with something you find offensive that Gettys wrote, which was a summary of someone's interpretation of Sanders' offensive remarks. What's amusing is that I didn't read the author's name, but I did agree with what he wrote which was based on the Twitter comments -- ALL offended by what Sanders' said. That is the reality. You don't get to call people liars because they are offended by offensive comments. You don't get to reinterpret them for everyone and call people names. Sellers did NOT mischaracterize what Sanders said.

I was never unclear -- just more maligning on your part. We've already been down this path too many times -- good Democrats called liars and dismissed if they don't kowtow. FWIW, I was disgusted by Bernie's first sentence on that YouTube. It was negative off the bat, and it was a horrible thing to say. No one holds him accountable for these nasty comments. I'm glad to see the Twitter universe and other writers FINALLY calling it like they see it. It's about time.

[muriel_volestrangler]

447. I'm not going in and out of anything. I'm talking about actual words used.

Gettys, however, lied. He didn't just paraphrase; he made a claim directly opposite to the explicit and implicit meaning of what Sanders actually said. You made a claim about what Sanders said, and you can't back it up.

[R B Garr]

453. I listened to Sanders. Thats my back up. Listening

to the man himself. Gettys didn’t lie. No one lied about Sanders. They said his comments about Obama were offensive.

You don’t get to call people liars for being offended by Sanders offensive comments. It’s laughable that you place your interpretations of what is offensive above all others. You are going to decide who can be offended and who can’t. Others are offended by Sanders offensive comments. His first sentence was horribly offensive. It’s on the YouTube in the OP.

[Blue_Tires]

187. So why is Bernie still dwelling on "failure"

instead of trying to spin this for the positive and use Virginia as a turning point rallying cry?? It's like his rhetoric clock is still stuck on January 2017...

And because the word keeps coming up I'm going to keep asking -- WHO exactly is the "establishment" and exactly WHAT makes a person part or not part of it? Where is the line drawn??

[kcr]

208. Uh, nope. He was pretty much spot on, there.

Not sure how you think what you post makes Gettys a liar.

[muriel_volestrangler]

277. The "lightweight" claim is a lie. Sanders said nothing at all like that.

It's such a distortion that it's a lie. It's designed to make Sanders look bad, and get Democrats to attack him. Far too many DUers have behaved as if Sanders insulted Obama. So Gettys has successfully divided DU, and probably other places that see the Raw Story article.

[Blue_Tires]

366. It needs to be said that perpetuating that "1000 seats" bullshit

was beyond irresponsible since the "OBAMA COST US 1000 SEATS!" agitprop refuses to die... Nevermind the fact that it's a cherry-picked fraud talking point originally circulated by Breitbart that the Berners have adopted as their own...

[muriel_volestrangler]

378. Democratic state legislators:

https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_composition_of_state_legislatures

before 2010 elections: 4,031
before 2012 elections: 3,301
before 2014 elections: 3,422
before 2016 elections: 3,150
now: 3,138

But, of course, Sanders didn't say "Obama cost us...". You're just falling for the spin, there. Go back and read what he said. Or listen to it.

[Blue_Tires]

395. I didn't say Bernie said that....

What I SAID was it is a very common and popular talking point circulated by Berners, even high-profile ones like Nomiki Konst. (As an aside, it's funny how Republicans never, ever denigrate their own party to the public... It's almost like they know the importance of protecting their brand, god forbid)... And my ultimate POINT is Bernie is doing us all a disservice by repeating it...

Nevermind the fact that it's cherry-picked bullshit -- I'll just leave this here for your own edification:

Link to tweet

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... We can't have that rocking the boat of the "Dem = perennial losers in constant disarray who are corrupt corporate sellouts and hate white Christian middle Americans!!!" This might fuck up the official narrative the cable media, conservative pundits, and useful idiots on the left have been married to and have found to be so very very lucrative... (Fun Fact: This is also why the usual suspects have LONG since stopped talking about Virginia in the hopes that we forget.)

[muriel_volestrangler]

424. That would be far more edifying if the explanatory tweet hadn't been deleted

Your ultimate point is that Bernie is repeating it. But he didn't say it. How did he communicate it - interpretative mime?

I don't know where "perennial losers" comes from - Sanders explicitly said that Democrats had lost seats, but that things are looking better recently. It's almost as if you ignore what he says so that you can attack him.

[Blue_Tires]

530. He didn't mention Virginia, did he? Did he not think it relevant?

If I'm wrong, please point out where he said something...

It's almost as if Sanders ignores or downplays Democratic victories he can't take credit for... Now why do you think that is??

My fault about the missing tweet, they are easy enough to find in a 10-second search:

Link to tweet

[TCJ70]

212. Context makes a huge difference in what was actually said...

...nothing to be upset about here unless you don't like reality.

Why not quote this part:

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!

- Bernie Sanders

[IronLionZion]

214. Thank you for posting the transcript

DUers are so easily baited and trolled, it's embarrassing. Bernie's comments are on the Democratic party business model and the truth that we have lost way too many seats that we should have won, not at all what the OP, Gettys, and Sellers are projecting onto him.

[jalan48]

242. One has to wonder why the reoccurring attacks on Sanders. What is his message? What groups

does he attack? My take is that powerful, moneyed interests have the most to lose if Bernie's ideas take hold with the American electorate. In this case his words were purposely skewed to give a certain impression to gullible citizens too lazy to actually read his remarks.

[stranger81]

365. It's the Goldilocks wing of the party that can't stand him.

The "moderate," "centrist" faction that believes anyone to their right is stupid and misguided, anyone to their left is a Russian plant or a fool, and that the existing Democratic Party platform is just right and could not possibly be improved upon.

[Demsrule86]

441. It is the most liberal platform in our history.

And I take exception to your characterization of Democrats.

[jalan48]

446. I think you nailed it.

[rainin]

308. Thank you. n/t

[stevenleser]

314. There is no mis-characterization there. It's exactly as Sellers said. Let's break it down

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure."

Right off the bat, who has been the leader of the Democratic Party for 8 of the last 15 years? The President of the United States is the leader of his party. So if the party has been a failure, that is an implicit attack on Barack Obama,

Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans.

Sanders' first sentence here at best suggests that Obama was a distraction from failure behind the scenes. At worst, since Obama was the head of the party while this was happening, the suggestion is that he was at fault for it. It definitely implies that either way, Obama didn't have the chops to do anything about it. By the way, this is the exact same take that the folks at Conservative Media have. I know because I have been on to address this on Fox several times and they made the same implication that Sanders has made, that this is Obama's fault. The difference was they didn't dance around the implication like Sanders did.

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up! It's not just in Mississippi, although lately we've seen Democrats beginning to show up in Alabama, but it's also showing up in Kansas and in (???), and that is beginning to happen, so what we are doing is trying against a whole lot of opposition - you know, the establishment doesn't go quietly into the twilight - but we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials.

So Sanders goes on to say why it should have been so easy to win these races we didn't win and then says we have to "show up". Oh and we are going to make the Democratic party younger, ostensibly by Sanders running for President in 2020 at age 75.

For those of us who lived through the period where the Democratic Party was losing those races and were actually paying attention, we know why we lost those races. The tea party and the demagoguery against the Affordable Care act all the while Obama was rescuing the economy.

The Republicans do a good job at demagoguery against Democrats. That's pretty much all they are good at doing. That's why we lost. This isn't that hard. It has nothing to do with what Sanders wrote and it has nothing to do with Obama. They demagogued Carter and Clinton and large swaths of the country bought that too. There was no reason for Sanders to bring Obama up except that he wanted to tie Obama and his brand to the losses.

[muriel_volestrangler]

338. You are bending over backwards to find bad interpretations

So if the party has been a failure, that is an implicit attack on Barack Obama

No, it's not. he talks about the "business model", and says it's a problem from before Obama became prominent. He makes clear he's talking about the loss of seats in states.

It definitely implies that either way, Obama didn't have the chops to do anything about it.

Only if you want to think that saying the Democratic party has had any problems over the past 15 years means blaming Obama for it. It would be ridiculous to think that way, but you want to think that Sanders is ridiculous, so you'll believe any old crap said about him.

By the way, this is the exact same take that the folks at Conservative Media have. I know because I have been on to address this on Fox several times and they made the same implication that Sanders has made, that this is Obama's fault. The difference was they didn't dance around the implication like Sanders did.

Sure, the video excerpt has actually been posted on YouTube by America Rising, an anti-Democratic PAC. They changed "business model" to "party" in their title, to try to make this look divisive. The problem is that you've fallen for it. You've been hoodwinked by America Rising.

We can see you hate Sanders, but you're going to make things worse by claiming he was attacking Obama. Don't screw this up further.

[stevenleser]

374. Nope, you are bending over backwards to exonerate Sanders. This is all very straightforward

The President of the United States is the leader of their party while they are in office. That's true whether it is Trump, Obama, either Bush, Clinton, etc.

Trump is the leader of the Republican Party right now for better or for worse. If you are saying the Democratic Party failed during the time Obama was in office, then you are blaming him. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

383. It doesn't get any more simplistic than that.

If you subscribe to the "great leader" theory of politics, you'll screw things up.

[stevenleser]

619. Its as simplistic as 2+2 equaling 4. All the gaslighting in the world wont change that. nt

[Demsrule86]

443. We also lost races due to voter suppression and a gerrymander after 10 ...and losing

a midterm in the 2nd year of a president is not unusual.

[Blue_true]

368. Your post only proved Bakari's point.

Bernie dismissed Obama as a lightweight that could not or did not know how to prevent democrats from losing seats. Democrats lost seats because they were the only ones with enough courage to make hard policy decisions at a time of vast peril to the nation. Bernie ignores how difficult the decisions that had to be made in 2009 and 2010 were, made with a Republican Party that did nothing but obstruct. Why doesn't Bernie criticize republicans?

[muriel_volestrangler]

386. "Bernie dismissed Obama as a lightweight" - false.

"that could not or did not know how to prevent democrats from losing seats" - false.

"Why doesn't Bernie criticize republicans?" Jesus fucking Christ, what's the point of a dumb question like that? He's spent his life criticising Republicans.

[Blue_true]

389. LOL. Nothing else came to mind. nt

[EffieBlack]

485. He did indeed dismiss Obama and we all heard it, even if you didn't

It's amusing to me to see a group of people who interpret any comment less fawning than "Bernie's so DREAMY!" as an attack on Sanders now insist that we view Sanders' clear and explicit slap at President Obama as not insulting.

Moreover, how can anyone look at this exchange and view it as anything but an attempt by Bernie to bash the Democratic Party without providing any solutions?

He was asked how he is harnessing the energy of millennials in Jackson and "reimagining" the Democratic Party. And instead of answering the question, he reached back to criticize the party, claimed that the last 15 years have been a "failure," dismissed President Obama as a "charismatic individual" and "brilliant "guy" and "extraordinary candidate" but offers nothing positive about his 8-year presidency and suggests that he's responsible for losing a thousand seats across the country.

And then he moved straight into talking about Republicans giving tax breaks to billionaires and throwing people off of health insurance (true, but not responsive tot he question at all) and then said that what "we have got to do is make sure that the Democrats ... show up ... and we are trying to open the doors of the Democratic party to young people, to millennials."

So he's harnessing the energy of millennials by opening up the doors of the party to them and making sure Democrats show up?

That's it?

[muriel_volestrangler]

491. I don't think you know what 'explicit' means

He did not 'dismiss' Pres. Obama in any way. You are the one demanding that Obama needs to be praised more than "brilliant", "extraordinary" and "charismatic". Do you think that's not 'positive'? And he mentions millions getting health insurance, but that's not 'positive' to you?

[EffieBlack]

496. No that is not positive at all.

Calling someone brilliant, extraordinary and charismatic followed by "but" and then blaming him for losing a thousand seats across the country is not positive. It's an insult and an explicit one to anyone with a lick of sense. Basically he said, "Obama may be an exciting candidate and great guy on the surface, but he really screwed up as president" - the type of insults that have been used against minorities for as long as anyone can remember. "Harry's a really nice guy, but he's just not right for this job." "Nikia is very sweet and she's bright, but she just doesn't have what it takes."

But you're right - "explicit" probably wasn't the right choice of word given how easily some people pretend that this was actually a compliment. So, instead of "explicit," let's say it was a back-handed swipe at President Obama couched in seemingly innocuous terms that would allow him and his defenders to deny he was saying what he definitely was saying.

You can deny it all you want. You can explain or interpret it however you wish. But plenty of people heard him and know what he was saying and know that he was intentionally insulting to the President. Perhaps since he was saying it to a predominantly audience let him to believe he could get away with it. But he can't walk away from it and you can't explain it away.

And the fact that so many of Bernie's white supporters are so quick to dismiss and whitesplain to blacks who don't like what he said, telling us that we didn't hear what we heard and that we are misinterpreting him or just don't understand or are "playing the race card," etc., only highlights and compounds the problem Bernie has with black voters and why he'll never get more than a minimum amount of support from us.

[muriel_volestrangler]

590. The 'but' was addressing what people see, not what Obama did.

"The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Barack Obama who won the presidency in 2008 and 2012. He was obviously an extraordinary candidate, brilliant guy. But behind that reality, over the last 10 years, Democrats have lost about one thousand seats in state legislatures all across this country. And you've got significant numbers of states, like Mississippi, where the governor, the legislature, the senators, are all Republicans."

People don't see that the business model (not the party, the business model) was a failure, in Sanders' opinion. He said people sometimes don't see that because they see the success of President Obama and concentrate on that. But the party needs to succeed at more than winning the presidency - it needs to win offices and legislatures in the states, and it wasn't.

The 'but' is about the party losses in states. The party, over 15 years, does not consist of Barack Obama and no one else. Sanders was not insulting to him.

[EffieBlack]

626. The fact that you have to twist yourself into knots to explain "what Bernie meant was"

is a sure sign that Bernie screwed up badly.

A man with as much time in public life, who is a former and possibly future presidential candidate, should be able to communicate clearly.

If he says things that are seen as insulting to large groups of people and needs his defenders to go out and write paragraph after paragraph to "explain" what he REALLY meant, he has a serious problem with communication.

[muriel_volestrangler]

629. I'm not twisting myself into knots at all. Again and again, I'm repeating his actual words

and explaining that things like "lightweight" were never said. It's you who has to resort to talking about "things that are seen as insulting". It's not entirely surprising that some see insults, after the spin of Sellers, and the outright fabrication of Gettys, is used to describe what he said, rather than his actual words. Gettys has fooled a lot of people.

[EffieBlack]

633. Keep talking

You’re revealing an awful lot.

FYI, blacks people are no more susceptible to “spin” and “fabrication” than you are. We’re not stupid and we’re not children. And we’re certainly not political neophytes.

But keep on telling me that we heard what Bernie Sanders said differently than you do because we’ve been “fooled.”

[muriel_volestrangler]

636. Black people? I'm not differentiating between any ethnic group here at all

I'm pointing out that many DUers in this thread are ignoring what Sanders said, and going with the Sellers/Gettys spin instead.

[EffieBlack]

646. It was black commentators who first criticized Sanders comments

And the comments were particularly insulting to black people but we've been swarmed by Bernie supporters saying that the comments weren't insulting.

You can try to argue that this has nothing to do with a particular ethnic group, but the facts are the facts.

[muriel_volestrangler]

668. What is insulting to black people in them?

The OP is about an article by Travis Gettys, whose photo on Twitter makes him look white. He quoted a tweet from Bakari Sellers, who is African American. He quoted a tweet from Ruby Cramer, who also looks white. This is not a "black commentators" thing. I do argue it has nothing to do with an ethnic group.

[BoneyardDem]

159. Bernie did it again...insults the Dem party he thinks he's going to win over...

...and made MLK rememberance all about his own campaign.

Any Bernster thinking this person is anything more than a grifter is simply fooling themselves. The rest of us have seen this for years...literally YEARS.

[KTM]

162. Say hi to Sally!!!

[melman]

172. Seriously

[BlueJac]

163. Bernie in 2020...

We need fresh ideas as we look forward to 2020. Unfortunately Bernie will be labeled a socialist.

[Exotica]

687. Bernie labels HIMSELF a socialist (democratic socialist)

so I do not know what your point is.

That said, I think he mistaken to pick that label. He is a social democrat, NOT an actual socialist, as an actual socialist wants to remove all private ownership of the overall means of production. A democratic socialist differs from a regular one in that they wish this to occur via electoral processes, not violent revolution. This transformative nature of the overall means of production is not what Bernie states he wishes to see happen.

I have live most of my life outside the US, after being born in California. In the countries I have grown up in, we absolutely do have both real socialists and also social democrats in our parliaments. Americans who have spent all or most of their lives only in the US do not seem, for the most part, (especially the RWers, but often on the left too) to grasp the nuances and the real differences between socialism, communism (especially its Marxist-Leninist or Maoist forms) and social democracy (ie. the Nordic models, etc).

It always troubled me about Sanders that he mislabels himself, and thus, in hyper-reactionary America, sets himself up for major conflict, loss of mass traction, and easy smearing.

[getagrip_already]

179. joe biden just told supporters he will run in 2020 if trump does......

That should make the primary interesting.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/joe-biden-tells-donors-hell-run-2020-74-year-old-trump-doesnt-drop-report/

[still_one]

195. While I personally would rather see someone else, the fact that Joe didn't run in 2016 was probably

a good thing, because it would enable him to be free of the divisions of 2016, and run as someone who could potentially unite the party

[getagrip_already]

216. especially since obama would be full throated behind him

Sure, obama will campaign for whoever the nominee is, but it will seem much more organic if its biden.

[lunamagica]

194. Sandes really knows how to GOTPoCV, doesn't he

Dismissing President Obama, and on MLK day, of all days?

Keep it up, Sanders, keep it up...

[HenryWallace]

201. And so it begins....

My guess is that many in this thread will not enjoy the next several years....

[link:

Link to tweet

|

PS: The full video is out there, I think some of you need to watch it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

228. thanks for that!

[HenryWallace]

266. Anytime...

As long as we are posting twitter feeds....

[link:

Link to tweet

|

What people don't get here is progressive issues are the pathway to regain the permanent majority we lost 35 years ago.

Centrism just maintains the "horse race" elections we have all become used to.

[G_j]

202. Lightweight?

where did he say that? Nothing like making stuff up..

[Texin]

205. Bernie's been staggeringly tone deaf lately. The NRA/gun issue, now trashing Obama.

I fully believe Sanders is no friend of the Democratic party. Frankly, I don't know which side of the fence he will come down on day in and day out.

[meadowlark5]

239. Same here. That's why I no longer like him

He should give no credit to trump EVER. EVER! Because anything trump might say or do that remotely resembles something Bernie would agree with is done in bad faith. Nothing trump does is for the good of the people and Bernie should know better. I don't like this "objective" game thing he tries to play because he's playing with people whose intentions are hurtful and wrong.

[George II]

209. The business model...of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure"

Someone should remind Sanders that not every politician looks at their vocation as a "business".

[Me.]

246. It's Such A Failure

He thought he could win the presidency by co-opting it

[Me.]

243. Why Should She?

She's entitled to post as she wishes as much as you

[Fullduplexxx]

298. Lol. Statement was directed at bernie

[Me.]

307. My Bad

[KG]

225. I lulz'd

again.

[world wide wally]

248. Not really a cruel things to say.... just stupid

[Tarc]

251. "over the last 10 years Democrats have lost about 1,000 seats in state legislatures"

I'm not a Bernie cheerleader by any stretch, but the man ain't wrong.

[Fresh_Start]

280. how many seats did the democratic socialists win?

doesn't seem like his party strategy is doing so hot either.

[Tarc]

567. Can you show me the time frame where "democratic socialists" hve been in party leadership?

To direct funds, campaign strategies, etc...?

Again, you ain't arguing with someone who voted for Bernie in the primaries here. He has a point that the party leadership does not have a stellar track record of late.

[Fresh_Start]

648. Democratic socialists aren't democrats

as bernie will tell you 100 ways to sunday.

So how many seats do the democratic socialists hold in the USA today?

[Gothmog]

689. Agreed

[Tarc]

693. Relocating goalposts is hard work

Try not to hurt yourself.

[ehrnst]

253. You certainly do need to be a white straight male to ignore the wins of the Democrats

in the last 15 years.

That or a Republican.

[Fresh_Start]

278. +100 nt

nt

[nolabels]

257. Correct message, wrong messenger

Too bad most will not hear it because of that. And or better yet many have already said such, possibly in better words, many times, but those that have a business or other interest in seeing things stay the same actually were only waiting for such a moment like this. Another milk-toast candidate is what will be foisted upon us and that is the intention. These conservative types want to keep people scared because they know significant change will not be in their best interests. We will never be able to change the future if don't recognize what we did in past in some way might be faulty. Change for change's sake might be bad (trump) but since we are already there how about some real change for the better

Rember the establishment is the thing that brought us where we are today so good luck with it

[RandySF]

267. You don't win the nomination by insulting a beloved Democratic former president.

Barack Obama doesn't carry Clinton baggage and he won't be on the ballot. A number will be shifting from caucuses and the Democratic Party is getting less white every year. Bernie has yet to take any active steps to reach beyond his 2016 base and it doesn't help that he changed his party registration from Democrat back to Independent. In addition, there will be a different group of candidates and some of them will pull his 2016 voters in different directions.

Bernie would probably be more influential endorsing someone than running himself. But yesterday was a huge mistake by any standard.

[TCJ70]

276. Which part was insulting? When he said Obama was charismatic, extraordinary, or brilliant? n/t

[ehrnst]

283. The part where he said it was because Obama was charismatic that we "ignored the failure

the Democratic party."

It's like saying that a singer had on a nice dress, which distracted from her singing voice.

The part about the nice dress was supposed to make the insult to her voice seem like it was a compliment.

Sort of like when Biden called Obama "clean and articulate."

Compliment, right?

Is that clearer?

[TCJ70]

294. I see a compliment (or three) to Obama and a true statement about the party...

...how many times have we seen districts that don't even run a Democratic candidate? We're making gains now because we're trying. If you don't think the losses and failures we experienced as Democrats over the past decade were a big deal then I don't know what to tell you.

There's also a vast difference between Biden's "clean and articulate" and charismatic, extraordinary, and brilliant...but I think you know that.

[ehrnst]

301. So you think that the Democratic party has been "a failure" for 15 years?

You must be a straight white man.

[TCJ70]

303. Do you think we've been successful in keeping legislative seats? n/t

[ehrnst]

312. So you *do* think that the Democratic party has been "a failure" for the last 15 years.

And you are a white straight male to be able to ignore the success of Democrats in the last 15 years.

I can see why you want to change the subject so fast.

It also takes some serious denial to ignore gerrymandering.

White male privilege is some strong juju.

[TCJ70]

325. Change the subject? That's what he's talking about! Winning legislative seats!

He literally encourages people to go vote for Democrats just a few lines down from his Obama compliments. I'm not changing the subject. You don't know what the subject is.

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Democrats - you don't win elections unless you show up!

-Bernie Sanders 4/4/2018

[ehrnst]

329. You agree with him that the Democratic party has "been a failure for the last 15 years"

Yes?

And you think gerrymandering has nothing to do with losing the house?

Marriage equality, LGBTQ rights, protecting Planned Parenthood, Lilly Ledbetter Equal Pay Act, the ACA.... All "failures" right?

Again... check your privilege.

[TCJ70]

336. I think we haven't been successful at keeping legislative seats

Gerrymandering plays a role, but we're told over and over again that it can be overcome by numbers. That's what's being talked about here. It's what's being suggested. We vote. We win.

[ehrnst]

381. You agree with him that the Democratic party has been a "failure" for the last 15 years.

Last edited Fri Apr 6, 2018, 08:01 AM - Edit history (1)

And have expressed no qualifications.


Obama and Holder are actually out here fighting gerrymandering which results in distortions between popular vote and representation, while Sanders is using legislative seats to score political points.

Got it.

[EffieBlack]

353. Let's see - In last 15 years, the Dems took back the House and Senate, won 2 out of 3 presidential

races - and actually won 3 million more votes in the third.

Some failure.

[ehrnst]

384. Indeed. (nt)

[stevenleser]

286. And his defenders in this OP think that by selectively quoting him and leaving out the parts they

don't want us to think about it will work to defend him.

[radical noodle]

268. I can't say I'm surprised

but it's definitely disappointing that he can't stop campaigning on his anti-Democratic ideas on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. The day was not about Sanders anyway, but to downplay the great president that Obama was on this day is just plain stupid.

[lunamagica]

281. So sanders is done...stick a fork and all that

I seem to remember...where did I see it...it was a chicken with a fork in it...I wish I could find it...

[Gothmog]

284. Bernie Sanders: National Democratic Party Has Been A "Failure" For The Last 15 Years

[honest.abe]

300. This makes me ill.

[Gothmog]

451. This is the video that was cited in OP

I just posted it so that people can see it easier.

[honest.abe]

452. Yes, thank you for posting that.

It needs to be seen.

[blake2012]

302. Yep

[Cha]

316. Joy Reid Tweet on BS's patronizing President Obama..

Link to tweet

[LexVegas]

321. His minimizing of Obama is fucking disgusting. nt

[Cha]

332. BS thought the best time to go after President Obama

was on the Anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King.

This is what President Obama was doing..

Barack Obama, Al Sharpton & More Recognize 50th Anniversary of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Death

http://www.ebony.com/news-views/obama-al-sharpton-anniversary-martin-luther-king

Link to tweet

[mcar]

359. President Obama was reaching out to help people...

While Senator Sanders was, once again, spending more time criticizing the Democratic Party than he ever does the Dotard Administration.

[Cha]

362. Right, and BS was attacking the Dem Party on the day after

we won big in Wisconsin.. and have been winning. Hell even Hillary won.. but it was taken from her and us.

He's wrong. he needs to wake up.

[mcar]

364. He needs to wake up, indeed

He needs to stop slamming Ds and turn his sights to Moscow on the Potomac.

[Sugarcoated]

322. Please Bernie

Do the right thing and don't run.

[SidDithers]

328. C'mon, he's just doing outreach...

Sid

[workinclasszero]

467. Yeah but for who?

[Cha]

493. I know the answer to that one..

for himself. Doesn't know he's not even going about that the best way.

working.

[workinclasszero]

495. That sounds logical Cha

Bernie always gives the back of his hand to the democratic party.

Every.damn.time.

Amirite?

[Cha]

508. When you're right you're right..

While President Obama and Eric Holder are out there fighting against gerrymandering.

Obama-tied group partners with Holder redistricting committee

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/356680-obama-tied-group-partners-with-holder-redistricting-committee

[TeamPooka]

375. So, Bernie is going to run to be leader of the party he criticizes constantly and refuses to join?

Good fucking luck with that.

[EffieBlack]

382. Why was Bernie even talking about Democratic Party politics at an event honoring Dr. King?

This was exactly what some folk warned about before the event - that Bernie would turn the focus away from Dr. King and back toward him and use it as a platform to trash the Dems and advance himself. They were told they didn't know what they were talking about and were unfairly bashing Bernie.

Well ...

[Demsrule86]

388. That is the question of the day...it sounded like a campaign speech to me.

[sheshe2]

442. It was. nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

394. He was directly asked by a questioner

"Host: Senator Sanders, this is for you. We saw a surge in millennials (with you?). How are you harnessing that energy to engage and sustain millennials in Jackson, Mississippi and how are doing the same to reimagine the Democratic party? "

[EffieBlack]

406. So, he responds to a question about how he will engage millennials in Jackson and "reimagine" the

Democratic party by calling the party a "failure" and taking a swipe at the first black president?

Did he ever say exactly how he planned to "harness that energy to engage and sustain millennials in Jackson, Mississippi" and "reimagine the Democratic party?" Or did he just do what he usually does - bitch about what he thinks is wrong and offer no solutions for moving forward?

What a missed opportunity. He was handed a softball by being asked to "reimagine" something during an event honoring the man whose two most famous speeches were about a dream and a vision. Instead, Sanders waffled and went right back to his default - bitching and moaning - and not even answering the question.

[sheshe2]

449. Boom!

[Tom Rinaldo]

463. You moved the bar

Clearly you did not like his answer, and that is well within your rights. However your reasons are a subjective reflection of your views on Bernie. "bitching and moaning" is your personal characterization of him. Some others share your view, some others do not. Accurately pointing to a statistic that reflects an area where the Democratic Party fell short can be construed as "attacking the Democratic Party" I suppose. Again that is your characterization but not mine. This was one question at the end of a program that he was asked and answered. It was not a major policy address on the future of the Democratic Party nor should it have been under the circumstances.He did allude to a solution- showing up everywhere, taking the fight to Republicans, often with youth leadership. Were you expecting a full thesis? Had he given one he would have been attacked here for delivering one at that event.

You saw a swipe at our first Black President and I did not. Since you are black and I am not I suppose that leaves me with no standing here to disagree with you. But the mostly black crowd at the event did not seem to share your reaction. (SEE added edit at end)

And even were Bernie Sanders a tone deaf self serving politician as many who jump onto these threads love to constantly accuse him of, he is a member of the Democratic Coalition in Congress. He votes with the majority of his caucus colleagues far more often than do a number of the Democratic Senators we all are hoping retain their seats in the 2018 election. He is well liked by millions of Democratic voters both inside and outside of his home state. He regularly speaks out against the Republicans as he just did against VA privatization. Democrats who view Bernie positively react viscerally to seeing him constantly trashed on Democratic discussion boards. But that matters little it seems to those who seem to view him here as the second greatest threat to the Democratic agenda for America, based on the massive amount of belittling posts about Sanders that immediately appear here whenever anyone dare mention his name positively, or the constant ongoing made effort to find something negative to post about either him or his supporters.

It should be embarrassing when hit pieces are cited that need to fabricate false context in their subject line in order to have their desired negative effect. Obama was not called a lightweight by anyone, let alone Sanders,nor was he attacked. Smears traffic in innuendos as in "we all know what he really meant *wink* *wink*.

We all have to get past the 2018 midterms before any type of honest case can me made for why one of the most popular politicians in America generally on our side of the issues (which Sanders is) needs to be torn into at every turn when in reality we need to be uniting to fight a huge common threat in November.

On Edit- I see one report cited below that the crowd was mostly white. I saw another report cited above that it was mostly black. Clearly it was mixed. I would love to find video coverage of the entire event. In the one clip I saw there were no boos for Bernie's comments which one might expect if a significant number of attendees thought he was attacking America's first black president. The only way Bernie Sanders qualifies as anyone's political villain now is if there is an explicit agenda already being pursued to block any opportunity for him to have a significant voice in political America. If so I firmly believe such a campaign is counter productive for our nation at this time when we need to jointly focus our negative attacks on the Republican Party in America prior to the November elections. We will have time for all this bickering later.

[EffieBlack]

474. I didn't move the bar at all. You gave me additional information and I responded to it

And I'm not looking for a thesis. Just an answer to the question he was asked. Apparently, he didn't really answer the question - he just took it as an opportunity to, once again, bash the Democratic Party and throw Obama in the mix.

But the fact that you feel the need to write this much to try to explain and defend him - and attack people who criticize him - means he's doing something terribly wrong. If this many people hear him and react to him the way we do but you continue to dismiss us and tell us we're just misinterpreting him demonstrates he's not ready for prime time. A politician's stock and trade is the ability to communicate. If he is so inept at communicating that entire swaths of people hear him saying things that he and you claim he's not saying, he needs to work on his message or his communications skills.

[Tom Rinaldo]

483. Effie, I've been thourgh several intense generatons of post primary wars at DU

I know how it can degrade into a team sport. I've seen tag teams at work, I've seen threads hijacked, I've seen talking points developed and deployed. I've seen attacks coordinated from closed off site groups. I've seen a lot. We all too easily can become convinced in the political morality of pursuing tactics such as those. Lord knows that was true of the Bernie or Bust folks too (the non bots among them anyway).

There is a political tactic that becomes the equivalent of "jamming", disrupting the signal of any message or messenger one disagrees with. Sometimes that is referred to as "swarming". The goal can be to make the experience of the target among those who previously were not aligned against him or her to become knee jerk negative because of "all the controversy" that seemingly always swirls up when that person is mentioned. True it becomes harder to communicate through the constant flak of jamming. I don't find that surprising in the slightest. That is the intent of the tactic.

But DU does not reflect the larger political world - just an organized facet of it. I think we are all better served by training our fire together at Trump and his real allies right now. That really is my basic point. December will come soon enough.

[EffieBlack]

488. You're right - we ARE all better off if we focus on Trump. And that's why I'm so sick of Bernie

He spends more time and effort attacking Democrats than he does on Trump. Just last week, he was agreeing with him on Amazon, which was not helpful at this time.

He's a one-note Johnny, which wouldn't be so bad if he also weren't so tone-deaf and alienating to a large segment of the Democratic base and so eager to bash the Democratic Party.

He really needs to recognize that his time has passed and go sit down somewhere.

[honest.abe]

484. +1

[lunamagica]

428. His response should have been "We are here to honor Dr King. We should concentrate on that

and leave the political discussion for another day"

[honest.abe]

486. Exactly.

But Bernie ever the opportunist to trash Democrats.

[LexVegas]

400. He just showed up, with a bullhorn and a photographer. nt

[EffieBlack]

412. And, this was a predominantly white audience of Bernie supporters. This was a campaign event.

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2018/apr/05/bernie-sanders-mayor-lumumba-have-campaign-chat-ml/

Bernie Sanders, Mayor Lumumba Have Campaign-Like Chat on MLK Anniversary

JACKSON — Cries of "Bernie 2020!" accented the conversation between U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders and Mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba at a town hall on economic justice 50 years to the night since Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated in Memphis.

#Thalia Mara Hall in downtown Jackson hosted the predominantly white audience, mostly Sanders supporters in T-shirts with slogans like "Feel the Bern" or even one that said "Don't Blame Me I Voted for Bernie," among other paraphernalia with Sanders' face on it. Some arrived an hour before the doors officially opened at 6 p.m.

Sanders told the crowd that he had come to Mississippi because he believes the Democratic Party has to become a 50-state party, which prompted enormous cheers from the crowd.

[sheshe2]

440. The ones that truly honored Dr. King...

stood with this man.



The dishonor showed to Dr. King was a pep rally for a white man campaigning for President.

[EffieBlack]

460. Indeed

[honest.abe]

461. Maybe because he doesnt really have much to say about the issues dear to Dr King?

Bernie is a one-trick pony. Its all about the economy and, in his opinion, Democrats don't get it.

[VOX]

415. That tears it. Done with Bernie for good now.

He’s just dieseling on now, bumming a career. Attaches himself to the Democratic Party like a barnacle, and then disses it as a self-serving gambit.

Voted for him in the primary, but don’t appreciate his biting the hand that feeds him. Into the flush-file you go, Bernard.

[Afromania]

459. Said the other day he needed to sit his ass down and he promptly did the exact things that led me to

making that post. Bernie has been extra special "extra" since he lost the nomination and it's become tiresome. Also said he was being an asshole and he went right on out and proved me right about that as well.

There was no need for him to show up for a ceremony honoring the works of Dr. King on the 50th anniversary of his assassination if his only intention was to use the platform as a means to put the Democratic party on blast. Bernie then topped that shit off by dragging Obama with some backhanded nonsense.

I don't know what others want to call it but I call it being a complete and utter self indulgent asshole.

[EffieBlack]

477. Yup

He did exactly everything that the people who questioned his appearing on this panel said they were concerned that he would do.

As I said in a post last week: "If Bernie listens quietly while other people talk, asks good questions intended to encourage others to share their views and then deftly guides an insightful discussion on race, I will applaud him. I will also be shocked."

[lanlady]

464. So, Bernies one-trick pony show is back in town

This infuriating grouch has spent years attacking the Dems whilst he offers nothing but a handful of principles with no idea how to get them enacted into law.

And Bernie, nice way to suppress the Democratic vote in this crucial mid-term year. I’m at the point where I want to throw something at the TV whenever you get on your soapbox.

[diva77]

468. meanwhile on 600 stations for 3 hours/day Limburger spews rethug filth; here are segment headlines

from today alone.

This is from limburger website - Don't eat anything prior to visiting (I do not recommend visiting it at all; just posted link to show where the filth comes from)

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/archives/
Public Education Needs to Be Disinfected

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: It's actually part of a much larger objective, which is simply to erase Western...
Mrs. Clinton Will Not Put a Sock in It

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: Hillary Clinton doesn't get 1% of what Sarah Palin got and continues to get....
African-American Caller on Condescending, Bigoted Liberals

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: Angela, this is a really interesting take you've got that the whole idea of...
More Great Economic News Despite the Trade War

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: It's incredible. It's a stunning turnaround from the Obama years.
California Grants Drivers Licenses to 1,000,000 Illegals

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: When you have a driver's license, you're quite a way down the road to...
I Just Hope Scott Pruitt Hangs in at EPA

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: "When you're taking a lot of flak, you must be over the target." Well,...
Trump v. Bezos: A President Can’t Target a Citizen (Unless It’s Rush)

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: I have been targeted by Bill Clinton, by Hillary Clinton, by Obama and the...
What’s That New Song in the Bumper Rotation?

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: Prisencolinensinainciusol is the title of this tune. He's an Italian, and he doesn't understand...
Trump Stops Illegals From Coming to Our Racist Country

Apr 05, 2018
CALLER: If America's such a horrible place to live, according to the Democrats, then why...
It’s a Myth That Liberals Care About People

Apr 05, 2018
RUSH: To me, it is striking how many people vote for Democrats on the premise...

[Blue_Tires]

469. The fact that Bernie feels the need to clarify after-the-fact

means deep down he KNOWS he fucked up big-time (extra credit for the backdoor shade)

Link to tweet

[Tom Rinaldo]

476. Actually I think it says exactly what it should.

And unfortunately, it needs to be said when there are those who seem more interested in finding and harping on potential wedge issues to fracture the Democratic coalition than they are on uniting to defeat the Trump Administration in the looming mid term elections.

[EffieBlack]

480. Poor Bernie - always so picked on and misunderstood

If Bernie has so much trouble connecting with and communicating with an entire demographic of the Democratic Party, maybe he's not ready for prime time. And blaming other people for his failure to communicate is a sure sign that he's got some issues.

Or do you think that black voters who view Bernie's comments as dismissive and insulting are just looking to "find and harp on potential wedge issues to fracture the Democratic coalition" than we are in uniting to defeat the Trump Administration?

I assume you're not in the "We need to reach out to and be very careful not to offend Trump supporters" camp?

[Tom Rinaldo]

487. I am in the we can not afford to fail to wrest power away from the Republicans this November camp

I write more about that in the OP I currently have up:
"You say you want a Blue Tsunami"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210452800

[EffieBlack]

489. Thanks for sharing that. It's an interesting, thoughtful post

I'm glad that you don't seem to be among those who expect us to tiptoe around the fragile Trump voter - while telling black voters who are offended by Bernie's comments to stop being so sensitive and get with the program.

[Tom Rinaldo]

527. Thank you

Even when we don't always agree I appreciate your thoughtful approach to discussions also. I have far too much respect for what oppressed people must deal with daily to ever be overly critical toward any supposed "instances of sensitivity". Sometimes I see it, sometimes I don't. When I don't I might say something about it, but I always understand that just because I can't always see it doesn't mean it might not be in full sight of others more directly effected than I.

[EffieBlack]

535. I appreciate that and appreciate your perspective, as well

I wish more folks were as thoughtful about this as you are. Seeing fellow Democrats not merely dismiss our perspective but mock it with sarcastic and downright obnoxious responses is really troubling and said.

[Blue_Tires]

501. Maybe he can do us a favor and just take Obama's name out of his mouth,

quit constantly waving every single historic flaw of the Democratic party (of which he isn't even a goddamn member currently) in our fuckin' faces and worry about his own end for the duration. Low-key dragging on Hillary is fish in a barrel since most of the left never really liked her anyway but dragging on Obama is a different ballgame altogether. Both Obama and Hillary are OUT of office so Bernie would do well to find some live dragons to slay instead of chasing ghosts from the past. And finally, maybe next time he gets invited to an MLK event he'll devote more of his remarks to THAT topic instead.

Then we won't have all these 500+ post threads on "divisiveness" and "wedge issues"... Do we have a deal?



DISCLAIMER/REAL TALK: I don't wholly believe Sanders dragged Obama, but I can't say with complete confidence that it was a compliment, either -- His words are oddly ambiguous since they could either mean Obama's popularity and charisma weren't enough to stem the tide, or Obama didn't care enough to use his popularity and charisma to stem the tide, and Bernie's follow-up tweet didn't really answer anything. The only evidence I can use to sway my verdict is to see how the Berners on Twitter took to the remark, and enough of them have been cheering Obama getting called out for losing those seats on "his watch" that I have my doubts about Bernie's sincerity. One thing that is NOT in dispute however is that Bernie Sanders has had a stick up his asshole about Obama for a long time, even before the time he tried to get that asinine "Primary Obama" campaign rolling in late 2011 -- While nobody dares admit it, a shared hatred of Obama and Hillary is what Bernie has most in common with Trump, hence their little underground mutual admiration for each other... And I fully agree we need to drop this bullshit and focus on 2018; my only hope is Bernie's actions match his rhetoric and he does more for the congressional races this fall than he did for Virginia and elsewhere in 2017 -- Because if he want to be "the man", he damn well needs to start showing it.

[EffieBlack]

504. Ding Ding Ding!

And, let's give Bernie the benefit of the doubt that he doesn't deserve (and that his people would never give anyone else) and assume he didn't mean to insult the President.

Should a guy this imprecise with his words that he would provoke this kind of outrage and disgust - and instead of apologizing and clarifying, he doubles down and insists that people are purposely misinterpreting him - really be running for president? The ability to communicate is absolutely essential to any successful candidate. If he still hasn't learned to make himself clear so that he doesn't piss off huge swaths of one the most important demographics in the Democratic Party, he needs to work on his communication skills and he's clearly not ready for the big time.

[sheshe2]

569. Full Stop.

[MaryMagdaline]

494. It's a good thing the Democratic Party does not need black voters

[Exotica]

498. his electoral strategy reminds me of the old show

[EffieBlack]

502. I know, right?

The same people who insist that we can't ever ever ever offend Trump supporters are all over this board insulting black voters and can't seem to understand why we're not flocking to support their hero.

[MaryMagdaline]

505. Nailed it!!!!

[Exotica]

518. this, unfortunately, this

[dawg day]

519. That's something that Bernie "Dems" ought to consider--

His sort of "progressive" -- focused on economic issues, which of course are important, but NOT the most important-- does not appeal to most non-whites and women who make up a far bigger part of the party than white male "progressives."
He has never felt very progressive to me as a woman. Secy Clinton is far more progressive about the issues I care most about-- and she has always worked for them. I have never liked this attitude that Sanders is the one who gets to define what "progressive" is, when he's actually not all that progressive.

[guillaumeb]

503. Heresy.

[JNelson6563]

509. In times of distress for a country

The REAL leaders will go out there and sow division among the opposition!

No surprise here about Bernie's Party of One bullshit. The only surprise is to see anyone propping this shit up. Emotional ties bind hard. So hard that it seems to become easy to disbelieve your own lyin' eyes/ears.

Sad.

[Snackshack]

532. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What Bernie said is not wrong.

[betsuni]

536. Reminds me of McCain's ad calling Obama a celebrity, not a leader, in that election.

Is Sanders saying Obama put a spell on us with his charisma? Isn't that a little like Stockholm Syndrome? That's odd.

[Exotica]

538. calling Obama a celebrity

if we ONLY knew what was coming down the pike in terms of political/celebrity intersectionality

[elocs]

537. "CNN contributor Bakari Sellers stuck a fork in Sen. Bernie Sanders presidential ambitions."

Oh, if wishing made it so.

[betsuni]

549. The funniest thing about threads like these where a Sanders quote is posted ...

are those claiming it's a groundless attack on Bernie. His words are right there, yet discussing it is some kind of "attack" out of the blue. Yet Democrats constantly have things taken out of context and cherrypicked so as to make it seem like they're not progressive, the failed establishment that is supposedly just as bad as the Republicans. It doesn't exist. As if Republicans win elections because voters look at the Democratic Party's platform and think, nope, I'm not voting for more economic and social equality, I'm going with the Republicans because their platform looks so much better. Why anyone would think Democrats are the problem is beyond me.

[EffieBlack]

557. For some folks, anything short of an enthusiastic "Bernie is awesome" is an "attack" on him. nt

[NurseJackie]

654. Many use the "refighting" accusation as an intellectually lazy way to respond to Bernie's critics...

... even though it always involves things he's said RECENTLY... or that same day... IN TWENTY-FUCKING-EIGHTEEN!!

Amazing.

[EffieBlack]

662. Amazing, isn't it?

[sheshe2]

558. Yes, his words are posted.

His spoken word, yet that is ignored and called a lie when he in fact said them in 2018. They say a quote in 2018 is refighting the primary. We are in a time warp here. Some people have to move forward to 2018. This is where we are now.

We have important primaries coming up in November. It is crucial we sweep them. If they sit back and whine and not vote then there is a chance we will lose. You and I, the rest of us will be out there voting for our lives. Sit it out and whine or vote. There choice and ours. We vote.

[betsuni]

568. It's a simple thing. All we're asking is to not help Republicans by repeating things that

aren't true about Democrats. That is NOT too much to ask.

A small miracle the OP is still here (the damn time warp).

[EffieBlack]

579. Bernie trashes Dems - hes being honest. We criticize Bernie for trashing Dems no problem

[OhZone]

565. He should be trying to improve Independents!

Not Another party!

Leave us alone and fix your own group's issues.

I'm actually serious.

Why do Independents fail so miserably all the time all over the country! WITH EVERYTHING! EPIC FAILURE every election? Over and over and over? With very few exceptions.

Why Bernie?

Why?

Address that and leave other parties alone.

[ecstatic]

584. I wish he'd go back to Vermont with his son Levy

I'm tired of him complimenting & agreeing with trump and sticking up for deplorables at every turn. He only has nasty things to say about democrats, even after being a huge spoiler in 2016. I guess it helps him to sleep at night. BTW, his model of humping the NRA for the last 15 years has been a failure. Goodbye Bernie! I'm seriously considering auto-blocking any thread that mentions him going forward.

[EffieBlack]

634. Exactly

[still_one]

586. What he has effectively done is call the first African American President an empty suit. That is a

LIE.

This was done before a group of people celebrating and remembering the life of Martin Luther King.

Sanders is a very condescending person who is not qualifed to be president

[betsuni]

587. He should throw in an Obama-needs-a-teleprompter joke while he's at it.

[EffieBlack]

635. And now his defenders are swarming the internet trying to gaslight black folk who called him on it

[EffieBlack]

637. Actually it was said to a group of mostly white Sanders supporters

Which explains a lot.

[RhodeIslandOne]

589. Which is more disrespectful?

Bernie Sanders calling President Obama “charismatic”, or about 16 Democratic Senators assisting in wiping out one of the key financial bills of his administration in an election year when half of them aren’t even running? Part of the larger point as to why the party is failing....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

592. Bingo

[TexasTowelie]

676. You do realize that the bill was written as a one size fits all bill?

The law treated small rural banks the same as the large investment banks that we are rightfully concerned about it. The law did three things:

1) Those small rural banks had to raise banking fees in order to comply with the new regulations.
2) A lot of the smaller banks either merged with other small banks or were acquired by larger banks.
3) The banks that could not raise rates high enough to comply with the regulations, or find someone to merge or acquire them eventually closed.

Because of those unforeseen adverse effects it resulted in reduced competition and the big banks gaining larger market shares of the banks they acquired. If you read the editorials in the newspapers for those communities there was praise for the Democratic senators that stood up for their constituents rather than towing the party line.

The bill should have been amended when those adverse effects became apparent. However, that wasn't possible when the Republicans took back the House and then the Senate.

It appears that a lot of people only want to present one side of the narrative while ignoring the other side of the story. Here is a brief editorial that may enlighten your perspective:

http://billingsgazette.com/opinion/letters/tester-effort-will-help-montana-banks/article_f891ae57-19ee-57f6-b126-a7bf2fa00e20.html

[Civic Justice]

603. The cause of the "Vote Split"...

When an Independent runs on the Democratic Ticket, they should embrace the Democratic Principles and Mission and its Nominee...
Sander's did not do that.... He used the Democratic Ticket for his self concerned purposes and did not bring his voters to fully support the Democratic Mission and the Democratic Candidate. He did not step aside when the Democratic Party selected its Nominee.... that's led to a damaging Vote Spilt.... and no amount of denial can void out that fact.
As a result we ended up with "Trump"...

Now the truth is showing itself... as he is absorbed in his own fanfare pursuits, and railing against the Democrats, when he should have been trying to bond and strengthen the party. If he had other ideas, he should have ran as an Independent on his own stand. The Democratic Party has to better vet anyone who wants to run on the Democratic Ticket. If they can't pledge to support the Party's Nominee 100%.. then they should not be admitted on the Ticket.

We see the results of allowing that to have happened. It tosses a win to Republicans and we've ended up with the mess of Trump's Madness.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210412020

[Civic Justice]

604. "Blind Bernie" is still blinded by his own Ego

He still does not accept the mess he contributed to.

He made a blatant denial of acknowledging the Republican Pledge to Oppose Anything and Everything Obama supported, and he FAILED to give respectful attention to the fact that Obama was dealing with a "attacked driven republican congress", while "dealing with a devastated economy".... Maybe Sander's has no idea what type of challenge that is, or what it took to deal with rabid republican and fixing the economy, while republican still attacked every measure engaged that resulted to fix the economy and get us off our knees. He did absolutely nothing to help during the Obama administrations work to advance and bring us up economically and diplomatically. He did nothing to help with the masses of people who had lost home and were made homeless, and he did nothing to stand for helping feed the masses of people who were devastated by the Bush Era Economic Crash, and now here is is again... pushing divide which by way of... emboldens Republicans. He is Subversive to the Democratic Platform and Its Goals to Help American Regain is Dignity.

Him and his Selective Amnesia is "DANGEROUS". Here we are headed toward November, and he's out throwing water on the fire of Democratic Unity.

We need More Democrat Voices to Move To Center Stage!!!!

I'd hope at least Tim Cane.. would take up the challenge and take a national stand, that speaks to Democratic Values and enlist other Democrats to speak up and put a muzzle on Sander. Sanders Does Not Represent the Democratic Party!!!!

Every one of the Republican Contender's backed their Nominee, even when they despised him, they stood together.

Bernie screwed up!!!! That's putting it in Simple Terms. "Truth" !!!!!

He still has not figured out that he drives his people to be and stand as "vote dividers"....

He's blind to the games Republican engaged with Sinclair Media to feed Right Wing madness to people across the nation, He is blind to the gaming Republican has done to collect the Evangelicals and bond them into Conservative agenda, even when the "White Evangelical and their Conservative Agenda" have created a split from the Global Evangelicals ... He is blind to the Republican stand of endorsing every madness that Trump can blurt out... and his continual getting up screaming, only makes many people who are in the middle see him as some rabid motor mouth, that has no concept of what is the make up of the Democratic Platform and how it fits with the American Ideas for a growth model that does not try to go to some extreme left, as in the things Bernie talks about. We have enough work to get America back to the center... from the far right madness that Republican have engaged and the erosion of law, the attack on government administration, and the disaster Trump has done to Allied Relations and the aim to weaken NATO and the UN.
He's an Old Man, in a hypnotized by the Camera's. until he is not paying attention to the realism of what's needed to get America back to the center as a nation that can move forward.

the only thing he has is "The push for Medicare for All" - but the ACA had already made a positive move for health care, and it required more work to move past the damages that Republicans interjected that did not allow ACA to do all that it could do.

[Vinca]

608. Am I the only one who thinks the anti-Bernie threads are less about Bernie and

more about dividing us for the 2018 midterms?? Best to ignore them all.

[Civic Justice]

610. Bernie "is" the Divider.... looks at 2016 results!!! GEEZ

[Adrahil]

613. Maybe not the only one, but you are wrong...

BERNIE is the one saying these things.

I happen to think reaction to this speech is overstated a bit. I do not believe Sanders intended to overtly insult Obama, though it wouldn't be the first time he had done so.

The problem is that Bernie STILL dismisses racism as a symptom of economic inequality. That is a classic socialist position, of course, but many people find it reductive, dismissive, paternalistic and insulting. And he doesn't ever back down from it. That's a problem.

[EffieBlack]

641. The reaction to the speech is not overstated, the reaction to the reaction of the speech is

People very rightly expressed their objection to his comments. Sellers put a a couple of tweets that were posted here and look at the reaction. Bernie supporters swarmed, gaslighting and attacking Sellers and anyone else who agreed with him. They’ve called us names, implied we’re stupid, tools, liars, not grateful for Bernie’s protest 60 years ago, etc. They’ve doubled down and attacked President Obama and the Democratic Party.

One need only look through this 600+ and counting thread to see the mass hysteria of Bernie supporters brought on by a few black people criticizing him.

[betsuni]

649. [phone]

[Adrahil]

651. I don't disagree with that...

I think the Sandernistas are entirely tone deaf on this subject.

I'm a 52-year-old white guy.

One thing I realize is that the deck is totally stacked in my favor.

And one thing I've learned is that when black people talk about their experiences, I need to LISTEN, and not lecture them on why I have all the solutions.

I find Sanders' attitude dismissive and paternalistic. And it really bothers me that so many Bernie supports seem to be SO enamored of him that they can't see this HUGE flaw. It's a huge problem.

[Demsrule86]

614. Yes you are wrong. The threads are about desperate Democrats who know that if we don't win in 18

and 20 the progressive party is over for a generation. And Sen. Sanders threatens our election efforts with his ill advised words.

[DLevine]

625. Agree, and unfortunately it is working. nt

[NurseJackie]

691. ...

[Nitram]

621. That's it. I've had enough of Bernie bashing Democrats.

[Honeycombe8]

657. Pssst: This is a Democratic Party site; Bernie isn't a Dem., as shown by his statments about "them."

He's not a Democrat, never was. So he speaks of Dems as "them," or "those others over there." Because he's not one of them. He caucuses with the Dems because he shares more views with them than Repubs.

Bernie is trying to start his own party, I think. His kickoff is to trash the other parties, of course. You have to start there. How else will he get members of a new party?

There is some truth to some things he says, but like Trump, it's the language, the degree to which he trashes "them," and his all-or-nothing statements. It's simply NOT TRUE that the Democratic Party has been a total failure for 15 years (except maybe in Bernie's eyes, since he's NOT A DEMOCRAT).

Preceding these lies, he agreed with Trump publicly trying to destroy a large company because of a personal vendetta with the owner.

I don't need any more proof that Bernie isn't good for the Democrats or the country. Do you? I'll ask you what we ask Trump supporters: How much is too much? Is there anything he can say or do that you will say "enough!"?

[we can do it]

632. Go home Bernie youre drunk 😵

[honest.abe]

642. I think Bernie is afraid the "Blue Wave" is happening without him.

The recent big Democrat wins in Republican territory are more about moderate Democrats connecting with the voters. That's not the Bernie way and its freaking him out so he steps up the Dem bashing to try to make himself more relevant. I really wish he would go back to Vermont and disappear from national politics. He is doing much more harm than good now.

[NurseJackie]

650. Yes, it is. Yes, he is.

I think Bernie is afraid the "Blue Wave" is happening without him.

Yes, it is.

He is doing much more harm than good now.

Yes, he is.

I really wish he would go back to Vermont and disappear from national politics.

Many people share that sentiment.

[Honeycombe8]

656. R.I.P.

........(politically speaking)

[OhZone]

658. Turnabout is fair play, like my uncle says -

The business model, if you like, of Independents for the last 28 years or so has been a failure. Now, what happened, people sometimes don’t see that because there was a charismatic individual named Bernie Sanders, who was the senator of a tiny little New England state and a congressman before that.

He was obviously an compelling candidate, brilliant guy, even though he failed to win the primary of another party. And even though, he got almost nothing done legislatively in all his 28 years in the congress and senate, because his goals, though laudable, were unobtainable and impractical, except in smaller practical steps. But behind that reality, over the last 28 years, Independents have won almost no seats state legislatures all across this country or on a federal level!

Now how does this happen at a time when the Republican agenda is the agenda of the billionaire class and is at war with the working people? How does it happen that a party that wants to give tax breaks to billionaires and throw millions of people off their health insurance actually wins elections?

So one of the things we have got to do, which I mentioned earlier, is make sure that the Independents who like to attack the alternate party with bullshit are put in the spot light for their distractions and indirect aid to the GOP. You don't win elections unless you show up! So when the very few high profile Independents and third party candidates concentrate on attacking a moderate Democrat, it suppresses Democratic vote and helps the GOP. Etc -

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seeeeee?

[EffieBlack]

663. Perfect

[OhZone]

671. Thank you! nt

[NurseJackie]

665. PARAGRAPH #2 in your post reveals so much. Everyone should read it...

... and just think about it for a moment. How can it be that over such a long period of time... so many years... and nothing much to show for it?

Seeeeee?

Yes I do. And so do his defenders... they get it... they know what the stakes are and what the consequences are. I think they just don't care.

[Exotica]

682. yep, they do not care, they are in a locked-down close feedback loop system

Some of it is borderline cultish, IMHO

[Cha]

700. Mahalo, OhZone!

[Oneironaut]

664. I absolutely do not see the point of Bernie making these comments.

No matter what your opinion is, did he really think anything constructive would come out of this statement?

Also, it was not Obama who failed - it was Congress (the House in particular). It’s not fair to judge him and not acknowledge how Republicans constantly tried to turn him into a lame duck. Obama would have been much more effective with a Democratic HoR.

[Loubee]

666. I don't believe there ever was a "Bernie 2020"

but it makes a convenient whipping boy against the left wing of the centrist party.

[Exotica]

697. have you seen his tour schedule, LOLOL he is hot-footing it to all

the 2020 primary hotspot sates like they are going to disappear if he doesn't set foot in them monthly.

[amuse bouche]

667. Sorry, I agree with Sellers

[Blue_Tires]

677. Jeff Weaver decides to pour alcohol on the fire...

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

679. Weaver is an idiot

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

680. Bernie Sanders spokesperson hits back against Bakari Sellers: Hes trying to sow racial division

Weaver is an idiot https://www.rawstory.com/2018/04/bernie-spokesperson-hits-back-bakari-sellers-hes-trying-sow-racial-division/

In an interview with BuzzFeed New, the Sanders’ longtime strategist Jeff Weaver said Sellers purposefully misconstrued the onetime presidential hopeful’s words to sow “racial division.”

When reached for comment by BuzzFeed, Sellers responded in kind.

“My father was shot because of racial [division],” the pundit said, referencing South Carolina’s Orangeburg Massacre in 1968. “[Weaver] should find another line of attack, because I will not dignify that.”

[Exotica]

681. wow, just wow,sad!

[Gothmog]

683. I am not a fan of Jeff Weaver and this attack by Weaver was stupid

I agree with your WOW

[Exotica]

696. I am so mad (from that article)

Tulchin, the senator’s pollster, described criminal justice and mass incarceration as relatively new issues for Sanders.

FFS, is that ALL they think about when dealing with us PoC!! GRRRRR

It is like when Bernie said something about ghettos and shit when he was asked about civil rights in 2016. Yes, of COURSE murderous police and unfair sentencing/arrest rates etc are important, BUT I NEVER here Bernie or his followers talk about helping find innovative ways to integrate the millions of us middle class PoC into a better societal/governmental structure. They have noooo problem talking about that shit to white suburbanites, or trying to reel in some Trump bigots who I KNOW would detest a person like me. etc. It was a HUGE thing I loved about Obama, he never pandered to us and used cut-out prop words and subjects.

[Gothmog]

703. The posters on JPR are upset with this thread

Good job

[BoneyardDem]

709. Perhpas this means Bernie really did screw up

and it's a very uncomfortable truth to be faced with.

[Gothmog]

710. That is my impression also