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Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:25 AM

Bernie cannot come to the cookout. Sorry, not sorry.

http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2018/apr/04/opinion-mississippi-womens-activistbernie-sanders-/

Martin Luther King Jr. was many things but he was never a man who was flexible about human rights. He died working for economic and racial justice. He certainly wasn't a man who didn't understand intersectionality even before we had a word for it. The Poor People's Campaign is an intersectional vision.

Bernie Sanders' so-called "revolution" of mostly white people is not any such thing. As I write this, I am confused and insulted that our city and our mayor whom I've supported would bring this man to honor one of the most revered black leaders in our history. We're supposed to believe that Bernie Sanders has insight on the economic legacy and vision of Martin Luther King Jr. when he doesn't even understand the racism of white people and intersectionality?

184 replies, 7548 views

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Reply Bernie cannot come to the cookout. Sorry, not sorry. (Original post)
LexVegas Apr 2018 OP
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #1
LexVegas Apr 2018 #3
Anon-C Apr 2018 #5
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #6
Cha Apr 2018 #25
yardwork Apr 2018 #46
heaven05 Apr 2018 #53
Tipperary Apr 2018 #24
Adrahil Apr 2018 #4
David__77 Apr 2018 #27
CentralMass Apr 2018 #78
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #82
Adrahil Apr 2018 #104
Adrahil Apr 2018 #103
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #120
David__77 Apr 2018 #124
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #130
Adrahil Apr 2018 #138
David__77 Apr 2018 #141
Adrahil Apr 2018 #145
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #154
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #160
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #161
George II Apr 2018 #179
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #163
Gothmog Apr 2018 #133
JCanete Apr 2018 #107
David__77 Apr 2018 #113
NCTraveler Apr 2018 #13
George II Apr 2018 #74
Mad_Mongol Apr 2018 #17
kcr Apr 2018 #20
yardwork Apr 2018 #45
heaven05 Apr 2018 #54
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #122
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #81
yardwork Apr 2018 #85
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #87
JCanete Apr 2018 #110
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #126
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #165
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #140
yardwork Apr 2018 #143
kcr Apr 2018 #166
sheshe2 Apr 2018 #167
Gothmog Apr 2018 #178
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #123
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #127
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #153
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #155
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #157
obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #172
betsuni Apr 2018 #55
Me. Apr 2018 #168
Cha Apr 2018 #170
NurseJackie Apr 2018 #173
LexVegas Apr 2018 #176
Me. Apr 2018 #2
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #7
LexVegas Apr 2018 #8
The Polack MSgt Apr 2018 #9
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #10
David__77 Apr 2018 #28
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #33
heaven05 Apr 2018 #59
betsuni Apr 2018 #65
David__77 Apr 2018 #115
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #125
David__77 Apr 2018 #129
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #152
David__77 Apr 2018 #156
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #162
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #149
heaven05 Apr 2018 #180
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #158
sheshe2 Apr 2018 #169
pnwmom Apr 2018 #34
yardwork Apr 2018 #47
whathehell Apr 2018 #51
heaven05 Apr 2018 #57
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #94
David__77 Apr 2018 #112
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #151
David__77 Apr 2018 #116
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #128
yardwork Apr 2018 #35
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #41
yardwork Apr 2018 #43
TheSmarterDog Apr 2018 #37
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #48
heaven05 Apr 2018 #61
heaven05 Apr 2018 #56
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #58
heaven05 Apr 2018 #60
betsuni Apr 2018 #63
heaven05 Apr 2018 #69
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #64
Adrahil Apr 2018 #105
WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2018 #11
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #12
yardwork Apr 2018 #36
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #83
yardwork Apr 2018 #88
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #95
yardwork Apr 2018 #100
Hortensis Apr 2018 #44
heaven05 Apr 2018 #62
greatlaurel Apr 2018 #14
Gothmog Apr 2018 #15
sheshe2 Apr 2018 #16
JCanete Apr 2018 #18
David__77 Apr 2018 #31
WhiteTara Apr 2018 #32
LiberalFighter Apr 2018 #66
shanny Apr 2018 #67
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #76
shanny Apr 2018 #90
yardwork Apr 2018 #91
shanny Apr 2018 #93
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #97
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #96
JCanete Apr 2018 #102
heaven05 Apr 2018 #68
roscoeroscoe Apr 2018 #77
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #89
JCanete Apr 2018 #106
heaven05 Apr 2018 #135
JCanete Apr 2018 #146
yardwork Apr 2018 #80
shanny Apr 2018 #98
yardwork Apr 2018 #101
sheshe2 Apr 2018 #171
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #183
sheshe2 Apr 2018 #184
Sam McGee Apr 2018 #19
lancelyons Apr 2018 #21
yardwork Apr 2018 #38
CanSocDem Apr 2018 #79
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #131
lancelyons Apr 2018 #22
MineralMan Apr 2018 #23
yardwork Apr 2018 #39
MineralMan Apr 2018 #84
yardwork Apr 2018 #86
Cha Apr 2018 #26
PaulX2 Apr 2018 #29
yardwork Apr 2018 #42
heaven05 Apr 2018 #70
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #108
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #132
GaryCnf Apr 2018 #139
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #144
heaven05 Apr 2018 #181
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #182
David__77 Apr 2018 #30
yardwork Apr 2018 #40
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #49
David__77 Apr 2018 #118
BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #150
betsuni Apr 2018 #50
heaven05 Apr 2018 #52
Tom Rinaldo Apr 2018 #71
heaven05 Apr 2018 #75
MaryMagdaline Apr 2018 #72
yardwork Apr 2018 #92
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #99
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #134
BeyondGeography Apr 2018 #137
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #148
Sancho Apr 2018 #73
JCanete Apr 2018 #109
ucrdem Apr 2018 #111
JCanete Apr 2018 #114
ucrdem Apr 2018 #117
JCanete Apr 2018 #121
ucrdem Apr 2018 #175
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #136
JCanete Apr 2018 #142
Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #147
Sancho Apr 2018 #164
PubliusEnigma Apr 2018 #119
NurseJackie Apr 2018 #174
Gothmog Apr 2018 #177
underthematrix Apr 2018 #159

Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:34 AM

1. This divisive tripe has already been posted and removed

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:40 AM

3. I don't find the voice of this African American female activist local to the area to be divisive.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:44 AM

5. Right! Its fair commentary to be discussed on its merits.

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:44 AM

6. Knock yourself out

It has already been hidden once. We shouldn’t be able to re-post articles that have been judged inflammatory for one reason or another, but I don’t run this place.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 02:53 AM

25. That doesn't matter when you consider

the source.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:41 AM

46. You find it "inflammatory" for a black woman to speak?

There's a lot of historical precedent for that view in the U.S., and none of it is good at all.

I have some advice for you. Read some history on the experience of black people in the United States. Read closely the response of white people when people of color speak out.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #46)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:54 AM

53. yep

 

always has been that way...we are supposed to accept a pat or rub on the head and keep quiet when a white person tells us to be....I knew that

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Response to LexVegas (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 02:08 PM

24. I do not find her opinion to be divisive either.

 

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:42 AM

4. How DARE a black woman speak ill of Saint Bernie. NT

 

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:08 AM

27. How dare a Jewish man speak in Mississippi.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:29 AM

78. I think that you are onto something there.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #78)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:42 AM

82. What exactly do you think they're "onto" ?

Don't be coy - come out and say what you mean.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #78)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:07 AM

104. Do you think I'm Antisemitic?

 

Put up or shut up. Point out my Antisemitism.

Otherwise, I expect an apology.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:05 AM

103. Oh yes, I was OBVIOUSLY being anti Semitic.

 

Ridiculous.

When a black woman criticizes Bernie on Holocaust Remembrance Day, you'll have a point.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:43 AM

120. So Black people who don't like Sanders are anti-Jewish?

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #120)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:45 AM

124. So people who disagree with Laurie Roberts are racist?

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #124)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:54 AM

130. David Clarke is an idiot

Does that mean I’m trying to silence all black men?

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Response to David__77 (Reply #124)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:25 PM

138. How about this....

 

Don’t try to silence black people when they are talking about issue that affect them. At the very least, Sanders showed poor taste in pushing his vision of justice which subsumes racial justice into economic justice at an event honoring a figure incredibly important in black civil rights movement. Even those who disagree with her opinion on Sanders should recognize the importance of that opinion being expressed. It’s not like this hasn’t been an issue that many African Americans have with Sanders.

The tone deafness of Sandernistas on this issue continues to astonish me.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #138)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:30 PM

141. I am not advocating for anyone to be disinvited to cookouts.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #141)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:35 PM

145. Im okay with it.

 

You can only hear someone tell you that your issues are really the same as some poor white dude in West Virginia ( who would just as soon see you swinging from a tree) before you don’t want to hear from them anymore.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #145)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:53 PM

154. Boom

Certainly, we have some issues in common. But the problem is that Sanders doesn't think the issues we DON'T have in common - and that are often directly in conflict with them - are important or worth addressing.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #154)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:11 PM

160. He has 100 percent ratings from the ACLU and the NAACP

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #160)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:22 PM

161. So do 42 (NAACP) and 17 (ACLU) other Democratic Senators and scores of Democratic House Members

The NAACP and ACLU ratings score Senate votes, nothing else. The ratings don't tell us much more than how he votes in the Senate.
And we all agree that Sanders has a good voting record in the Senate, along with most other Democratic Senators. That doesn't mean he should be president or a party leader.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #141)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 09:24 AM

179. There were "cookouts" in his home state on April 4, too, where most members of Congress....

....spent that historical day.

My two Senators were here, as well as my Congressman.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #124)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:30 PM

163. Nope...not at all.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #27)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:00 PM

133. As a Jew, this claim is so silly that it is funny

Sanders is really not popular at my congregation. Jews had been in the front lines in the battle for civil rights. I still remember the gripes that I heard during the breaks for High Holy Day services about sanders speaking to Jerry Falwell's school on a High Holy Day a couple of years ago.

I was a delegate to the National Convention. I remember a sanders supporter wearing a cross yelling at delegates going into one of the Jewish caucus meetings that we were bad Jews for not supporting sanders. It was a really strange experience. My daughter saw this same guy doing this at another event

BTW there is a great Jewish community in the south. One of my friends' dad is at a good Jewish firm in Alabama.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #4)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:17 AM

107. Straw-man...argument that you'll have to prove exists in the mindset of those with complaints about

 


this article. Totally though, had this been a white person writing this, I would have agreed with every word....

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Response to JCanete (Reply #107)


Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:16 PM

13. There is an alert button.

 

It is used in place of comments when one wants a post removed.

The op is linked to commentary by Ms. Roberts with respect to Bernie Sanders. Yours is about DU'ers.


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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:24 AM

74. +1,000,000

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:07 PM

17. Divisive?

Is that what the Bernie Bros calls a Person of Color speaking out their truth? Our conservative Republican friends use the same word for the same purpose, no?

What do you mean by it?

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:58 PM

20. Really? Wow.

That's outrageous. Hope that person contests it.

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Response to kcr (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:37 AM

45. This OP was alerted on as well. It is outrageous. Censoring a black female columnist.

I'd say it was unbelievable but it happens all the time.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:56 AM

54. Bravenak

 

a very fine representation of rreal revolution...was banned for speaking up and somehow offending white people with the truth. Happens all the time.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #54)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:45 AM

122. I like her so much and miss her.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:41 AM

81. My OP linking to the same article was alerted and hidden

Glad to see this one survived the swarm

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #81)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:50 AM

85. I hope you will appeal that hide.

This is very wrong.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #85)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:51 AM

87. I did. But so far, just crickets

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #87)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:24 AM

110. appealing as far as I can tell is entirely pointless. I'm sorry you got a hide. That is frankly,

 

a bullshit tactic no matter who is doing it. I'd rather discuss these things than shut them down.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #110)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:49 AM

126. I agree

I have no problem with posts that personally attack DUers or express racism, bigotry, etc. being hidden. But hiding posts because we don't like someone's opinion is beyond the pale. And being hidden for violating a DU rule while another, identical post remains visible is the very essence of arbitrariness.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #110)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:49 PM

165. I agree but you should always appeal an unfair hide. I believe that those administering these things

at DU want it to be a fair system...now I have received hides I deserve and have no one to blame but myself.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #85)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:29 PM

140. The appeal was just granted and the OP was restored a few minutes ago

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #140)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:34 PM

143. Good!

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #140)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:05 PM

166. Glad to hear this

That was the right decision.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #140)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:32 PM

167. Excellent news, Effie!

Brava.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #140)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:48 PM

178. Yeah

Great thread

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #81)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:45 AM

123. You should appeal.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #123)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:50 AM

127. I did. No response.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #127)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:52 PM

153. It takes time...a day or two usually and it is the weekend.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #123)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:53 PM

155. It was just restored

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #155)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:59 PM

157. Excellent news.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #81)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 05:13 PM

172. Yup. and it is starting even earlier than I thought

I thought it wouldn't start until at least July or so.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:59 AM

55. ...

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:33 PM

168. And Replaced

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 05:21 PM

173. Check again! The link you provided works FINE for me.


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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:35 PM

176. The OP you posted is active.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:38 AM

2. Such A Good Read

“What MLK never did that Bernie Sanders has repeatedly done is say that class concerns override racial issues. That isn't true.”

“A coalition means I can come to the table and be fully present as a black woman with needs and concerns for my community. So, too, can every other community, and we all move forward together with everyone's needs in mind. What it doesn't mean is doing what Bernie has done repeatedly—throwing people of color under the bus in order to make white voters comfortable by denouncing "identity politics" and saying that racism didn't really influence white Trump voters. It was just "economic anxiety," he tells us.

#It doesn't mean appeasing those who think abortion is icky by saying it's OK to be flexible on abortion rights. They are rights; what is there to be flexible about? There is no economic justice without racial justice and reproductive justice”

“Sanders needs to make up his mind if he's "in for a penny in for a pound" as the elders say. So far he's just playing the hokey pokey with social justice and, frankly, black people and especially black women don't need any more white so-called allies who do that.”

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:46 AM

7. Views from POC are apparently once again unwelcome on DU.

Sigh.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:47 AM

8. Divisive, it seems. nt

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:50 AM

9. Excuse me for pointing this out, but you used "once again"

Pretty sure you meant "still"

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Response to The Polack MSgt (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:55 AM

10. Well it's a matter of degree

...where there are ebbs and flows...

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:11 AM

28. Perhaps the voices of Jewish people are also unwelcome on DU.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:11 AM

33. Perhaps they are by some on this political site

But this is a discussion board and opposing opinions can and should be aired.

So when the subject has to do with issues that impact the black/POC experience, the commentary from those who are part of that community should not be presumptuously and summarily marginalized or dismissed by those who are NOT part of that community. One might listen to the suggestions and take from them what they like, but to expect that community to bow down and wholesale give up their identities or independent thinking. Just. Because. Well that ain't happening.

It would be facetious for me to tell a Polish Jew like Sen. Sanders (who has chosen not to embrace or practice any religion), that what he, his parents, and ancestors experienced is irrelevant or unimportant because I know what is best for him, his family, and his community, and I alone know what the focus should be for his life and that of his community. It would be insulting.

No other community outside of blacks and Native Americans have been surreptitiously forced to accept being defined and lectured by others regarding who they are and what they should do and not do.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:11 AM

59. excellent response

 

and truth that is unequivocally a representation of how things have always been in ameriKKKa and especially the last two sentences.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:28 AM

65. +1

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:35 AM

115. I get that some people dont think anti-Semitism is racism.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #115)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:49 AM

125. Explain how the MLK issue is an example of anti-semitism.

One can disagree with Sen.Sanders and not be a bigot...I did not even know he was Jewish...and I might add my Dad's family was Jewish and every member except for the branch in the US died in during WWII. I can assure you I am not a bigot and I find Sen. Sanders remarks about the party and President Obama troubling.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #125)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:51 AM

129. I am glad that youre not anti-Semitic.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #129)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:47 PM

152. How could I be? I am half Jewish. I was shocked to find out my entire family that lived in Germany

was gone...no one talked about it when I was a child. Later I found out that Grandma tried to get the family out during the 30's but there was a ban on Jewish immigrants at the time. I wasn't raised in the Jewish faith...but when I looked at the pictures of all of those who most likely perished in various death camps...I know some in Auschwitz...I felt a kinship. My brothers, sister and I (also our children) are the last living descendants of what was a large family living in Germany...two families really because both of my Great Grandparents families perished in Europe. We have never found any relative still alive. My Grandmother had three brothers but they didn't have children and passed at a young age many years ago. She had a child out of wedlock which was shocking to me. I only recently found out. But he died without children either and was raised with my Dad. The story was he was adopted. Families are complicated.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #152)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:53 PM

156. Thank you for sharing that.

I really appreciate it.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #156)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:28 PM

162. Thank you for listening.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #115)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:42 PM

149. In the simplistic and nonsensical trinary construct of "race" in the United States

that had been enforced by law (dejure) up until about 50 years ago (where it is now defacto), what "race" do "Semites" identify as?

(and remember, I am talking "United States" and being forced into one of 3 groups - "black", "white", "yellow", where "red" and "brown" were not really considered a "race" but were "honorary white" )

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #149)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 09:27 AM

180. ++100

 

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:01 PM

158. +1000 excellent post.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #33)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:34 PM

169. As always...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:13 AM

34. Why do you say that? n/t

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Response to David__77 (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:50 AM

47. Point me to an instance of a Jewish columnist being censored on DU.

I promise I will help raise hell.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #47)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:48 AM

51. "Censorship" is done by governments -- Websites do moderation.

If you think a post has been unfairly deleted, you have recourse through the Administrators. That's about the beginning and end of it.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #28)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:05 AM

57. I have never

 

seen that happen if a jewish person speaks up forcefully on some subject. But a POC speaks in such a manner, while we are invited to the table, we are to not offend the sensibilities of certain people with the truth as a POC lives it in this racist fucking society....period or we are gone!!!!! Seen it time after time in many a forum or venue. Believe it.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:06 AM

94. Well remember

"White" is "universal". "Jewish" or "Christian" or whatever, is secondary.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #94)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:30 AM

112. Anti-Semitism IS racism.

I get that some disagree.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #57)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:37 AM

116. I know of a certain Jewish man who is told to shut up or go take a nap.

...

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Response to David__77 (Reply #116)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:50 AM

128. You are deflecting...no one on this board disagrees with Sen. Sanders because he is Jewish, but

because he talks badly about the Democratic party and most recently Pres. Obama. Nice try.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:13 AM

35. Apparently, black women aren't supposed to say anything but praise for white men.

Where have we heard that before? Seems familiar somehow.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #35)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:28 AM

41. In America

"white" is "universal".

So like so many times when I was in college, one of only 400 blacks on a campus of 25,000 whites, when I was asked while in the dining hall - "Why do black people always sit together"? All I could do was look around me at the hundreds of whites all sitting together at tables nearby, face palm and then ask "Why do white people always sit together"?

Silence.

The scotoma that some have to reality is real.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:35 AM

43. I know. I've seen it. It's all through this thread.

The hypocrisy of censoring a black female voice while posturing oneself as ultra-progressive doesn't even register with so many posters in this and so many other threads.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:21 AM

37. +1000

 

Very sad. especially since POC are the ones who are going to be running things in the next few years.

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Response to TheSmarterDog (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:53 AM

48. I think the issue is bigger than that

This country put into effect, and reinforced via laws and centuries of cultural institutions, a certain hierarchical environment based on race, ethnicity, and religion. And the critical and supreme part of that triad is "race" - mainly because if you are visually able, it is the very first thing you encounter when meeting someone. So unless that person is wearing clothing that denotes their religion or ethnicity, you would have no idea what those other things are until you delve deeper. AND this includes the even more bizarre practice that impacts those who may not appear to be of a certain race (bi-/multiracial), who find they are treated one way until such time that it is determined that an ancestor is of a specific race, and then the entire perception of that person suddenly changes.

And that "race" factor had been fed with a number of stereotypical definitions, assumptions and misinformation, and was (and still is) passed on to generations of people who have immigrated here later in this country's history. It is dangerous and it is insidious and it has been an overlay that cannot be summarily dismissed because certain recommendations for solving problems will not be found to be applicable to those who are impacted by this system.

And what is the saddest part of this is that what is rarely discussed (but actually came up "literally" and "symbolically" with the film "Black Panther" ) is the uneasy relationship that many in the black community ("of old" ) have had with our "brethren" from the Caribbean and the African continent (and the rest of the diaspora). Each of us having an entirely different life, historical, and cultural experience, but each eventually getting that convoluted American "racial overlay" imposed on us no matter where in the world we came from.

When many from those countries come here and look at the antecedent black community, it's basically like we get a "What is wrong with you people?" remark from them. But once they are here long enough, they (often painfully) learn the what and the why. See the Haitians.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:19 AM

61. +++nt

 

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:59 AM

56. only if they

 

ruffle feathers of the usual suspects....

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #56)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:06 AM

58. Well now that is an interesting observation.

At least of late. Although since the time I registered here back in 2008, it was ODS all the way.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #58)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:17 AM

60. I just remember

 

how Bravenak was stalked by people on this site because she did not respond in a manner deemed appropriate or civil enough for some. She was alerted on constantly for telling many truths about ameriKKKa. And........

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #60)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:23 AM

63. Because of my time zone I saw her posts removed in the middle of the night U.S. time.

Shame.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #63)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:42 AM

69. shame, lots

 

of that to go around continuously and constantly in many forums and venues these days.....for sure.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #60)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:27 AM

64. Yes

and the stalking - particularly in the AA forum - was (and still is) a disgrace.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #7)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:08 AM

105. Nope.

 

Many of us, most of use, I think, welcome comments from POC, especially on this subject.

I think the Sandernistas are a noisy minority.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 11:59 AM

11. K&R.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:12 PM

12. Oddly

 

I see nothing in anything Ms. Roberts has posted indicating that she sees herself as a "black voice" except to the extent that she invokes the term "intersectionality." She self-describes as the head of the Mississippi NOW, and advocate for choice, and an advocate for LGBT rights.

As such, I appreciate hearing her opinion, however, describing those who disagree with her as trying to silence a "black voice" might be seen as an inability to produce anyone other than previously-identified Sanders critics to support the b.s. claim that we as a community were any more offended by Sanders' comments than we are any other white politician's on the same subject.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:17 AM

36. You don't get to tell Ms. Roberts how to express herself.

What you just wrote is mind-blowingly condescending. Black voices, female voices, gay voices - each individual gets to decide how we will express ourselves. You don't get to decide what sounds black and what doesn't.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:46 AM

83. And yet that is exactly what

 

has happened since the moment this "outrage" was manufactured.

Voices like mine or like Chokwe Lumumba or like the tens of thousands of black voices who were so uninspired by our party's current message that they didn't bother to fight through the obstacles they joyously overcame in 2008 and 2012 are dismissed as not black enough or not black at all.

The voices of the scant handful of black people who actually buy into this endless blame fest (that is trying to whitewash the mindless abandonment of core Democratic constituencies that has been the hallmark of Establishment Democratic politics since poor blacks were LITERALLY sacrificed during the 1992 campaign and black and white working class were sacrificed soon after) are elevated to our spokespersons.

While each of that handful are powerful in their own right, and may well be rightfully called spokespersons for other oppressed peoples - as Ms. Roberts clearly is - they are not spokespersons for the vast majority of black people I have encountered who don't want any part of what is really two groups of white folks fighting for power while we are fighting for our lives.

Go ahead and have your battle. Just don't act like we care.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #83)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:56 AM

88. Nobody is suppressing your right to post your opinion here.

Excuse me if I naturally give more credibility to a person who publishes columns in her real-life name, with her photo and affiliations, than I give to any anonymous poster on an internet board.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #88)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:25 AM

95. No excuse needed

 

I don't fault you at all for that. I commend it. I made a conscious decision to remain anonymous knowing that.

When a person chooses anonymity, it's the strength of their arguments and the verifiable facts they offer in support that determine their credibility. If I have failed in that, I blame no one but myself.

I appreciate your response.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #95)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:55 AM

100. You're welcome. I too choose to be anonymous online.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:35 AM

44. Ms. Roberts is a leader of the Mississippi NOW state group

and is co-founder and head of the Mississippi Reproductive Freedom Fund.

She also has a blog for people who like those, https://feministuppityandblack.com/ .

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:21 AM

62. ????

 

really????????

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:26 PM

14. Great read. Thanks for posting!



That was very insightful article that helps me expand the way I think about these vital issues. The use of race has been used to divide and conquer in the US for far too long. Ignoring the elephant in the room, now, is to assist those who wish to divide and conquer.

Thanks, again.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:34 PM

15. Great article and thread

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 12:41 PM

16. Thank you, LexVegas.

That was a great read.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:25 PM

18. Well, Sanders did get to come to the cookout. He was invited to the cookout, so ...

 

kind of a weird point. And Sanders recognition that some places are so right wing religious that it is impossible for them to hear anything if you first put pro-choice on the table is totally understandable to me, although, I agree, not where I want him to go. Its not helpful even if it is an attempt at pragmatism(you have to crack that nut in a way that it can actually be cracked), but then here you are, getting "proven" to be willing to support women's oppression. So, because it had the potential to fracture those of us on the left, I think it was a bad move, although his support for one candidate who has done a mea culpa on this issue entirely, stating that he regretted his earlier stance on the issue, is not exactly supporting that oppression. I have to look back up the other candidate's details, and I know it was slightly more troubling, and I'm not sure whether his explanation was adequate.


The article is dissapointingly lacking when it actually comes to proving some of her most dire accusations, like sanders not understanding the racism of white people or intersectionality. She just states those things as fact, without a lick of support.
Well...I'm sold.

And saying that Our Revolution is mostly white people, I have no idea what the numbers are, but that is a great attempt to try to keep it demographically associated. Sanders certainly has cross-over appeal, and his likeability with people of color is higher than it is with white people. I think there's a definite possibility for growth here, and using current numbers AS the critique, even though they go uncited, is not an effective argument in my opinion.

And how does she know what they are going to talk about? Has she seen the last economic justice town hall with Warren and Darrick Hamilton? Some of the issues she's lamenting aren't included in this discussion WERE included in this discussion. So what is really going on here?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:27 AM

31. There certainly is a lot of political sleaze.

...

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:07 AM

32. would you cite a source for this statement?

Sanders certainly has cross-over appeal, and his likeability with people of color is higher than it is with white people.

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Response to WhiteTara (Reply #32)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:28 AM

66. I found that odd too.

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Response to shanny (Reply #67)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:26 AM

76. Written by

Symone Sanders -

Symone D. Sanders is a Strategist for Priorities USA, a CNN political commentator and the former national press secretary for Bernie Sanders' presidential run.




And as a note - I have absolutely nothing personal against her and she has a right to express her opinion and promote the man she worked for. But she does not speak for me nor many other AAs who are part of my family and circle. And I think the vote tallies are pretty telling regarding the actual facts. If anything, most folks (no matter what race or creed or ethnicity or other descriptive) are NOT intimately invested into politics and political discourse like those who post here, so they are probably somewhat neutral to political figures in general - particularly outside of election season.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #76)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:01 AM

90. article cites several surveys

 

the request was for any evidence

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Response to shanny (Reply #90)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:04 AM

91. And the surveys are being misstated, as I note upthread.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #91)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:05 AM

93. I'm on my phone...upthread where?

 

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Response to shanny (Reply #90)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:29 AM

96. "Surveys" have nothing to do with a result that happened from actual "votes".

And at this point, none of these people are running for office for the top of the ticket at this time. When they are actually running, then the stakes are higher. And it is a fact that AAs vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, and do so in the range of 90+% anyway.

Again - the majority of Americans are generally apolitical outside of election season because they have better things to do with their time or are forced to deal with things in their lives that eschew focus on politics. I myself post on hobby & weather forums outside of this forum and that is generally why I don't do that many OPs here and try to nurture them because I am trying to get my garden together or other stuff.

So to try to force a "popularity contest" onto a community is just nonsense.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:39 AM

68. well it certainly

 

seems like the door is open the other way and he won't be invited again to something like a remembrance of Dr. King, with whom bs marched with ONCE. To turn something as a celebration of Dr. Kings life into an attack on President Barack Obama and blaming President Obama as being the main reason the Democratic Party has "failed", his word, for the last 15 years in fighting the GOP. We have held our own and had a POC as our standard bearer. He was maligned and hated as a POTUS by white ameriKKKKans from under every rock and from every swamp in ameriKKKa along with dainty suburbanites just because he had brown skin.

The intellectualization of this hate was turned into an art form that included the present potus being a 'birther' along with his complete family.

President Obama and the First Family were a representation of america at its finest form and all white racist ameriKKKans could do was to continually sully and attack, in an unprecedented fashion NEVER experienced by a modern POTUS this fine man and his family. One situation stands out to me to show the danger and animus brown skin has as a companion in this racist culture.....the vacation destination of Malia and Sasha was surreptitiously announced by someone in the MSM and repthugliKKKan party. Never happened to any other POTUS in my experiences of dealing in a racist culture and society.

Oh and Warren and Hamilton ARE NOT B.S. nice try.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:28 AM

77. Good stuff

Like your comments

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:01 AM

89. THIS

and notably this part -

President Obama and the First Family were a representation of america at its finest form and all white racist ameriKKKans could do was to continually sully and attack, in an unprecedented fashion NEVER experienced by a modern POTUS this fine man and his family.


The literal tightrope that this family had to balance on as they walked the gauntlet and navigated through the landmines around them, for 8 years, was truly unprecedented. Case in point being what got elected after they left and how his behavior has been the polar opposite - and without the sheer oppressive weight of the American people and American media to overwhelm him with negativity.

And what made it the more remarkable, that few outside of the black community realize or see or even appreciate, is how this same family ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS "dipped into" the black community via a shared "cultural experience" - whether through black-focussed magazines like Essence or Ebony, through interviews with black talk or entertainment hosts on television or radio, or through the church (including spontaneous singing of "Amazing Grace" ). This family's ability to provide a consistent and powerful cultural infusion, is what helped bolster our community through the trials and tribulations, and reinforce to our youth, that yes - you can run for office and win. It ain't gonna be easy (it's never easy for most running for office) but it can be done - all the way to the top of the ticket.

%3Fitok%3DCRTilcrF&w=700&q=85



What this did was to tell "us" -

"Yes, I have to go along with what this country expects for me to do, how it expects me to do it, how I am supposed to act and dress and talk, and to whom, but I'll never forget that I'm still "from the 'hood'"

And this is with the irony that although Michelle is literally "from the "'hood" and Barack is not, America imposes a cultural "expectation" that pretty much requires one to "identify" and this means often escaping to that "'hood" in order to emotionally survive the onslaught. And in the case of Barack, having grown up with a white mother and grandparents (and learning that culture), in the midst of a native island people (and their culture), with an Asian step-father and half-sister (and that culture), as well as an African father and his relatives (and their culture), he really is a rounded kind of guy when it comes to what this nation evolved to be about.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:14 AM

106. Well he didn't do that. Your interpretation, based on his words? or on tweets about his words? is

 


not itself fact. Whether or not he will be invited again, are you the person who decides this or are you just pretending you have any idea?

Or I missed it. I invite you to point out the part where he said Obama is why we failed or even drew that connection. If I am wrong I'll say so .

No, Warren and Hamilton are not BS, but we are talking about what these town halls are about. Somebody who says these are the issues that need to be addressed, well, they were at that town hall, so assuming they won't be at this one seems like an intentional oversight to me.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #106)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:04 PM

135. oh?

 

okay. Oh it was a metaphorical phrase on him being invited again. His faction will be making noise enough to at least stay relevant within the Party itself, I'm sure.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #135)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:35 PM

146. are you referencing an official statement? Like I said maybe I missed something. Or are you really

 


saying you were being metaphorical? I'm not sure I follow that.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:35 AM

80. Your statement is incorrect.

I think you have misunderstood the data, as cited in the Washington Post article linked below. The data actually said this:

African Americans gave the senator the highest favorables at 73 percent — vs. 68 percent among Latinos, 62 percent among Asian Americans and 52 percent among white voters.

In other words, when a sample of African Americans were asked to rank their favorite politicians among a small group (which didn't include President Obama, Hillary Clinton, or many other politicians), 73% of the African Americans polled chose Sanders from the small set of options. Only 52% of white voters chose Sanders.

This is not surprising, since African Americans are more progressive than whites, and thus more likely to choose a progressive than a conservative from the small array of choices presented.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #80)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:47 AM

98. So the "small group" didn't include politicians who aren't running/can't run?

 

And somehow this means that Sanders is not popular with African Americans? um, OK

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Response to shanny (Reply #98)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:57 AM

101. Why don't you list the choices that were offered here.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #101)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:54 PM

171. I had to check.

The poll that is lauded, the Harvard Harris internet poll. It has been debunked many, many times.

That just figures.

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #183)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:10 PM

184. Oh my...

Lol~ Thanks for that link. Hilarious.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:53 PM

19. Letter from Birmingham Jail

 

I'm preparing a Sunday School lesson for my church's adult class this Sunday; I'm using MLK's "Letter from Birmingham Jail" as support of Christ's message.

For those of you not familiar with the Letter -- read:
1. An Appeal to Law and Order and Common Sense, January 1963
2. Statement by Alabama Clergymen, April 1963
3. Letter from Birmingham Jail, August 1963

The background.

King and his supporters were in and out of Alabama, mainly Selma, Montgomery, and Birmingham with marches, protests and other non-violent civil disobedience. An ecumenical group of senior Alabama clergy took issue with King, arguing that, yes, segregation was bad but instead of "outsiders" roiling the waters in Alabama, things should be settled by Alabamans black and white using the courts -- that's the topic of 1 and 2 above. King replied to them in a letter written, from memory, over a period of days, on scraps of paper smuggled into and out of the jail.

King's letter is the most powerful statement ever written of how faith motivates politics.

Bernie and the Bernistas should read it. As should Ms. Roberts.

The rest of us, too.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 01:58 PM

21. While I think the Bernie side causes problems for the democrats sometimes

 

While I think the Bernie side causes problems for the democrats sometimes, I have never seen Bernie as a guy who just talks to white people. I think his message is fairly color blind.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #21)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:22 AM

38. His message is that racism doesn't matter. Many of us disagree.

I am a white woman who disagrees with Bernie, based on my personal observations and reading over 5 decades. I think that racism matters a lot. Quite a few people of color seem to disagree with Bernie too.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #38)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:29 AM

79. Where does racism come from...?

 



Of course it matters but unless you were born with an aversion to the color of another's skin, you had to have been taught this somewhere along the way. Recognizing this would make it prudent to focus on the social, cultural and judicial environments that allow this to happen.

Education is the key.

.

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Response to CanSocDem (Reply #79)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:55 AM

131. You can't as my dear old Dad said legislate morality. But you can legislate the hell out of

intolerance in the work place, apartments and home sales, schools etc...because racism breeds poverty. Sen. Sanders has it backwards. Poverty does not cause racism...it is the result of racism.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)


Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 02:05 PM

23. We'd better listen closely to Black Voices, I think.

We fail to do that at our extreme political peril.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:23 AM

39. Considering that black women's votes are winning Democratic elections.

I think that we should listen to black women in particular. But their voices are censored on DU.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #39)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:47 AM

84. Yes. I agree.

It's a pity that we're not reading what they have to say here on DU.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #84)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:51 AM

86. It's time for white Democrats to wake up and stand up.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:01 AM

26. Mahalo for posting this, Lex!

Important to know what POC are thinking about this show of BS' on the Anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:19 AM

29. So Let Me Get This Straight

 

Bernie should spend less time taking on the billionaires and more time taking on the racists or else......

I'm so sick of these threads I wanna puke.

Our planet is being destroyed by greedy scum and some think the race war should be the most imporant war for everyone.

I think I'm gonna be sick.

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Response to PaulX2 (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:30 AM

42. If Sanders wants to campaign in Mississippi on the anniversary of MLK's murder,

then people organizing the events in honor of MLK are going to expect their guest speaker to acknowledge racism. M'kay?

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Response to PaulX2 (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:49 AM

70. try to make

 

it to the toilet please. There are medicines to combat you sickness and you should get some because ALL POC don't agree that economic injustice is a more important priority for the AA community than trying to dodge the bullets, literal and figurative, of racist police and citizens. He has not spoken out in a way that shows he cares about the murder/executions of so many AA men, women and children, since 2008.... When he has, he had to be prodded to do so.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #70)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:18 AM

108. I won't argue with this at all

 

because Sanders has been no more vocal on black genocide in our urban communities than any other white politician. I'll even add that, while Marxism is a necessary component of full black liberation because no other economic structure can return the $60 trillion stolen from us, Sanders has not even hinted that this is among the reasons he supports socialism. Yes, though I support him, Sanders is most definitely white as hell.

Here is my problem with your perfectly valid criticisms. You are joining hands with the same people who were behind the politically-motivated torture and execution of Ricky Rector, the Crime Bill which is as much a weapon in the black genocide as blue on black murder, the AEDPA which insulates southern states' racist, the punitive welfare reform bills which destroy poor urban families, the bi-partisan destruction of ACORN, the marginalization of BLM, and the utter silence on black issues during every presidential campaign beginning in 1992 that didn't have Barack Obama at the top of the ticket.

I have no problem with calling out anyone, and that includes Sanders, for not speaking out on issues that are important to us, BUT to focus on his failures alone and NOT the what borders on open hostility I just described is something with which I just can't agree because it chooses sides between two groups of white people who are not fighting for us instead of demanding that one of them does.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #70)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:57 AM

132. There is less inequality in Briton and France but racism is rampant.

and those targeted by the racism still experience economic inequality.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #132)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:27 PM

139. Good illustration

 

Socialism or Marxism as an economic model, which is what Sanders talks about, is not an effective tool to promote racial justice. Marxism, as a mechanism to redistribute wealth from one group to another, as, say, to return trillions of dollars of stolen wealth, is perhaps the only tool.

I support Sanders, but the idea that socialism of the type he advocates will level the economic playing field across racial lines is incorrect.

Put another way, Sanders' socialism is not Seale's Marxism.

On the other hand, I'm not hearing anyone opposing Sanders for not being Bobby Seale.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #139)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:35 PM

144. I see your point. I agree with you.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #132)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 09:41 AM

181. I have no problem

 

with the term 'economic inequality' as it is related to american culture with systemic, institutional and religious systems that are racist. Where if I see a POC murdered by a police officer or citizen, in most cases, a white police officer or private citizen, I am supposed to remember that more money, gainfully made by perp and murdered, in the pocket, is the cure for that bullet being shot into that unarmed persons body by a racist? To me more money means a richer racist. Marxist socialist economic policies WILL NOT stop racism in ameriKKKa or even make it lessen. Does that sound off base?

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #181)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 11:29 AM

182. Nope the people whom are targets of racism will not share in any economic prosperity until racism is

dealt with.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 03:20 AM

30. Anti-Semitism is racism.

Jewish people do not benefit from the presence of white supremacy.

I think this bears pointing out in the context of this article.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:27 AM

40. Then why doesn't Our Revolution bring that up?

I get their weekly emails. I don't recall receiving one that expressed concern about the rise of white supremacy.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, to which I regularly contribute, has published about the dangers of racism and white supremacy for decades. Takes the violent ones to court, too.

Can you cite a single instance where Sanders has ever acknowledged the SPLC?

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Response to David__77 (Reply #30)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:13 AM

49. As I posted to you above

Senator Sanders has consciously chosen not to identify with his birthright religion and that is certainly his right. Far be it for me (or anyone else for that matter) to impose such on him.

<...>

Mr. Sanders, those who know him say, exemplifies a distinct strain of Jewish identity, a secular offshoot at least 150 years old whose adherents in the shtetls of Eastern Europe and the jostling streets of the Lower East Side were socialists, anarchists, radicals and union organizers focused less on observance than on economic justice and repairing a broken world. Indeed, he seems more comfortable speaking about Pope Francis, whose views on income inequality he admires, than about his own religious beliefs.

Rabbi Paley, who worked with Jews in central Vermont when he was a Dartmouth College chaplain, recalled once talking with Mr. Sanders about “non-Jewish Jews,” a term coined by a leftist biographer, Isaac Deutscher, to describe those who express Jewish values through their “solidarity with the persecuted.” Mr. Sanders seemed to acknowledge that the term described him, Rabbi Paley said.

But the secular image that Mr. Sanders casts is also complicating the way American Jews regard the historic nature of his candidacy.

When Joseph I. Lieberman, an Orthodox Jew who spurned campaigning on the Sabbath, was Al Gore’s vice-presidential running mate in 2000, many Jewish voters saw it as a breakthrough. While Mr. Sanders’s surprising run for even higher office is eliciting many strong emotions, religious pride is usually not the main one. “Joe was an observant Jew; Bernie is marginal,” said Morris Harary, a lawyer who lives near Mr. Sanders’s childhood home in Brooklyn. As a history maker, he said, Mr. Lieberman was “much more of a big deal.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/25/us/politics/bernie-sanders-jewish.html

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:39 AM

118. Anti-Semitism is racism.

Some don’t get that.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:29 AM

50. K&R

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:51 AM

52. truth

 

always hurts and it seems a lot of people are offended by THIS TRUTH!!!!

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:57 AM

71. I have no reason to believe these views are not quite sincerely held by many - including the author

Last edited Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Strongly anti-Hillary Clinton views were no doubt sincerely held by many also during the 2016 campaign. While if pressed I can still defend what I feel were some legitimate criticisms of Hillary Clinton at the time, I know that malicious agents were pouring sewage into our political debates, turning some arguably (debatable) less than ideal aspects of her political identity into a grotesque caricature of political malevolence

What does election meddling actually mean? At root it means stirring the pot, any pot that can be made to boil over. It means inflaming sore points that quite often are legitimate in origin, until they become infected and ultimately toxic to the body politic.

I am a strong backer of Black Lives Matter. I credit that movement with helping to open my own eyes to a horror that I as a white man did not sufficiently recognize prior to it's emergence. Black Lives Matter is not "too extreme". Black Lives Matter is not intrinsically divisive. Black Lives Matter is fucking right and was decades overdue. That does not make it immune from attempts to exploit it by some with ulterior motives.

There are forces in this world that want nothing more than to see Americans divided, and they will play any angle, mimic any position, and assume any identity needed to pursue that agenda. And very good people, very good Americans with justifiably strong grievances, are not immune to attempts at manipulation, That means all of us, myself included. It is important that we all be vigilant against efforts to unjustifiably turn ourselves against each other. That fits into a different agenda than the one that animates our true passons.

Here is a cautionary tale. I will simply leave it here for reflection:


Russian Trolls Stoked Anger Over Black Lives Matter More Than Was Previously Known
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/russian-trolls-hyped-anger-over-black-lives-matter-more-than-previously-known/

"...In data collected over a nine-month period ending in October 2016, the UW team found clearly defined left-leaning and right-leaning clusters—about 10,000 accounts in each sphere—tweeting about police shootings and including the three hashtags related to #BlackLivesMatter. Two of the Russian accounts found were among the top 12 most-retweeted accounts overall across all 20,000 accounts. “This suggests that troll content was relatively widely broadcasted in the contexts of this network,” the research team wrote in their findings. “On both sides, we see troll accounts gaining traction in polarized, audience-driven discourse.”

“It’s striking how systematic the trolls were,” says Ahmer Arif, one of the researchers on the study. The operation, he says, was sophisticated enough to exploit both sides: “The content they’re sharing is tailored to align to each audience’s preferences.”

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #71)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:25 AM

75. +++nt

 

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:04 AM

72. What is truly sad for us Democrats

Bernie probably went to Mississippi to court minority voters since he did so poorly in the South last time. He ended up offending many people of color. Not good. Not good at all. For any of us.

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #72)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:05 AM

92. I don't see this as a problem for Democrats.

It's a problem for one politician, who is not even a member of the Democratic Party.

We have lots of other good candidates.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #92)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 10:48 AM

99. Oh it is a problem for Democrats

when they let their feelings get in the way of their ability to think clearly. If you want to change things you’re going to have to work with and support people you might not like. It’s called democracy. The amount of energy expended here parsing Bernie Sanders, who is your natural ally if you care about a whole host of progressive issues, including racial justice, is rather pathetic. Especially as much of it is grounded in pure intramural partisanship.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #99)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:02 PM

134. He is not an ally of the Democratic Party and has spoken repeatedly about Identity politics.

He votes with us because we align with his view more than Republicans. but he is not an ally.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #134)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:16 PM

137. When he was in the Senate with Hillary

They voted the same way 93 percent of the time. One thing they disagreed on was IWR. There were issues where she was on the right side of history as well. See how that works?

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #137)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:41 PM

148. I am not talking about voting although that is important. He voted on what was introduced mostly. I

am talking about his low opinion of the Democratic Party. I don't think you can deny that this is so and it bad to criticize the party or Democrats during a make or break election...I don't like it anytime but this year is particularly bad for it as 20 will be. We are in the midst of a national emergency. If we don't win, I don't see how progressive politics survive the takeover of the courts and the terrible policy that will be rammed through.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 09:12 AM

73. Honestly, I would have agreed with this article years ago...

Jackson, let's really talk about economic justice and how it's tied to reproductive justice, gender justice, disability justice, racial justice, birth justice and criminal-justice reform. Otherwise, the discussion is incomplete. Bernie Sanders isn't the person who can have that conversation.


My observation growing up in the South, plus the many times I heard Bernie as he ran for President is consistent with this excerpt from the last paragraph. My own view is that justice is not confined to $s, and Bernie is focused primarily on the financial system as the key to almost all reforms. The linked article makes the case personal and focused on the MLK holiday, but the premise is correct.

One reason I prefer some other politicians over Bernie is his rather narrow view that has not changed much in many years. As a listener to Thom Hartmann I had picked up on Bernie's views long ago. It's not that I'm against economic fairness or reform, but it's a matter of putting the cart before the horse.

For many people in the US, their concern is true equality and justice. The overwhelming focus of money pervades our society to the point that it substitutes as a "goal" for real reform. I can identify with the author's opinion.

Maybe the key to the next election is the energy of Bernie combined with a better message that captures the values of POC, "me too", "march for our lives", and other aspects of justice without compromise. MLK should be honored for his profound vision.

(For me, it's a distraction from the message of the OP to debate rules and jury decisions).

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Response to Sancho (Reply #73)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:21 AM

109. I disagree with your order. YOu can't get equality and justice if you let economics continue to be

 


wedge used by the rich to divide people. That is just insurmountable. You can't do social justice without economic justice as far as I can tell, but if somebody wants to actually explain how it can be done in that order, I'm all for hearing you out.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #109)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:25 AM

111. Helping torpedo the TPP was not doing economic justice.

And the vitriol and anti-Barack sloganeering was frankly, well, let's just say it surprised even me. Those "No Fast Track" rallies for example -- who do you think those were directed at, and why?

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #111)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:33 AM

114. TPP and Nafta aren't about economic justice. Interesting that you think otherwise.

 

American workers was the target of Sanders argument. That seems like the right place to direct this message. the why of it is that it is American workers, and frankly workers elsewhere, who ultimately suffer. The big guys, they do great. Some American companies will kill some small foreign companies, and some foreign companies will kill some small American companies, and all is in perfect harmony.


Other speakers at this rally...

Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Al Franken (D-Minn.), and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Reps. Donna Edwards (D-Md.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.).

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Response to JCanete (Reply #114)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:39 AM

117. No that's a pernicious myth. 58% of Americans support free trade, including 71% of Hispanics.

"No Fast Track" was indeed directed at a certain target segment but it had little to do with justice.

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/27/free-trade-agreements-seen-as-good-for-u-s-but-concerns-persist/

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #117)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:45 AM

121. Is that why these people were involved and spoke at the rally?

 



Loretta Johnson,
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), Al Franken (D-Minn.), and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), and Reps. Donna Edwards (D-Md.) and Keith Ellison (D-Minn.).


Look, a poll about what people like does not mean they are right, and I assure you, when I cite polls it will not be about whether or not I think those polls themselves prove an idea as correct. It simply means that that is capturable energy, or that there are apparent misconceptions about who actually is in favor of one politician or issue. It doesn't have any bearing on whether these people are right. You citing that people were down with free trade doesn't mean anything to me, except that they probably don't have all the facts, and outreach like that event are needed. Neither do I, and my opinion may change as I get more, but currently, until I'm shown to be wrong, I think that I have a better handle on this than the larger population.

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Response to JCanete (Reply #121)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 07:21 PM

175. It wasn't a rally, it was a campaign. And if you like tariffs get ready for a feast. nt

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Response to JCanete (Reply #109)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:06 PM

136. I think racism breed inequality myself.

And when a Black man is shot 27 times in his Grandma's backyard, we have to deal with the racism that causes this. They called out a huge number of cops for a few broken car windows-there are reports that there was a damn swat team called and why? It was a black neighborhood...no amount of economic reform can fix this. We need both economic reform and social justice.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #136)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:32 PM

142. racism existed of course, but there was a real need to institutionalize a sense of inferiority

 


when slavery needed to be justified, reinforced, perpetuated, it takes thinking of others as immoral and unintelligent and inferior to exploit them so savagely. As to our policing, it isn't a whole lot different. There are economic elements fed by racism and then in turn racism fed by economic elements. At this point it is a vicious cycle. Rich or upper middle class white people have an idea of what black people represent, and primarily, past a ridiculous safety concern, security in their property, etc. they don't want black people in their neighborhood because they think it is a devaluation of their wealth. The police protect and serve the people with money. The reason a racism in policing can persist so unchecked is because their job description between the lines is to simply keep unwanted elements out...to make them so uncomfortable that they have to move on or have the sense not to show their face in a certain neighborhood again. In the inner cities, police-work continues to be about oppression. It doesn't matter that we hire racist cops from that standpoint because hell, if that's going to be their job, that's actually what they need to be.

But as a case in point that it is not simply racism that is occurring, black and Hispanic cops also abuse their power, and they tend to abuse it against the same groups of people. That could be an internalization of the racism at these institutions, which is totally understandable as a survival mechanism, but it is also the fact that marginalized groups are the easiest to exploit without consequence. If people in the police force are capable of murder, they may still care about whether or not they get away with it. It helps to not think of your target as human, but that only matters if you aren't a sociopath.

And if people are simply reacting to black people differently because they think they are more dangerous, because they are more other to some of these cops and because a bullshit reputation precedes them from media propaganda, this is again, a matter of horrible training, which IS a matter of what the police force is actually about. Again, what the police are actually about is making the people who have power in the cities they work happy. If that is their concern, and not the well-being of the citizen, this is where we will continue to remain. We need to take that influence out of the equation.

But YES. We need both economic reform and social justice. Who is focusing on those two things together?

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Response to JCanete (Reply #142)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 12:38 PM

147. I am not sure anyone is focusing on economic justice and social justice. I agree with everything you

posted. I think Republicans especially TV and talk radio have ramped up the fear of POC...and I can't argue about anything you posted as I agree with it...now don't faint from shock or anything!

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Response to JCanete (Reply #109)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:44 PM

164. That's where we disagree....

think about the black MD who is still banned from the Golf Club (on TV this weekend), or the minority symphony conductor who is steered away from neighborhoods (real story here in my town).

When pools were integrated in the 60s, there was a boom in backyard pools in the Southern suburbs. Schools here in Florida are still segregated! http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2015/investigations/pinellas-failure-factories/. It's not economic gain, but pure prejudice that is driving the GOP haters.

It goes on and on. To me, economic opportunity for minorities, women, immigrants, and everyone else is a subset of real social justice for all. Laws supporting integration, special education, disabilities, and sexual orientation are a protection at a minimum, but the American society cannot continue to chase the almighty dollar at the expense of real change. Economic inequality is a wedge issue, but not the primary issue for many of those who live with oppression every day.

If every economic reform that Bernie proposed was enacted, most or all of the injustice and prejudice and discrimination would remain. That's what I've seen happen over the last 60-70 years in the South - blacks, hispanics, and women can get an education and sometimes make a good pay check - but they still are second class.

From some viewpoints, the bank account is low on the list of social justice. Just treat all people as equally loved and respected. That is the MLK message to me. I agree with the Memphis sanitation workers, "I am a man." Not a rich "man", but recognized as an equal person of equal worth.

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 11:42 AM

119. Bernie is a divider, not a uniter. More ego than accomplishment.

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Response to PubliusEnigma (Reply #119)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 05:28 PM

174. If I wanted to find out what his major legislative accomplishments were, where would I look?

Is there a specific government web page that lists those things for each senator? (Would his wiki page have that info?)

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #174)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 08:47 PM

177. I am also curious

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Response to LexVegas (Original post)

Sat Apr 7, 2018, 01:01 PM

159. Bernie was born in 1941 which means Bernie will be or is 77 years old

and will never ever be president. Why do y'all keep giving him air? Stop using him as a magnet for your feelings. Take your power and use it to get DEMOCRATS elected who have the heart of a public servant, a moral compass, believe in the rule of law, and whose life exemplifies what is best about America.

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