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Sun Apr 8, 2018, 12:39 PM

If We Don't Act Now, Fascism Will Be on Our Doorstep, Says Yale Historian.

Posted with no comment.

https://www.alternet.org/activism/if-we-dont-act-now-fascism-will-be-our-doorstep-says-yale-historian

How close is President Donald Trump to following the path blazed by last century's tyrants? Could American democracy be replaced with totalitarian rule? There's enough resemblance that Yale historian Timothy Snyder, who studies fascist and communist regime change and totalitarian rule, has written a book warning about the threat and offering lessons for resistance and survival. The author of On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century talked to AlterNet's Steven Rosenfeld.

-snip-

We think about democracy, and thatís the word that Americans love to use, democracy, and thatís how we characterize our system. But if democracy just means going to vote, itís pretty meaningless. Russia has democracy in that sense. Most authoritarian regimes have democracy in that sense. Nazi Germany had democracy in that sense, even after the system had fundamentally changed.

Democracy only has substance if thereís the rule of law. That is, if people believe that the votes are going to be counted and they are counted. If they believe that thereís a judiciary out there that will make sense of things if thereís some challenge. If there isnít rule of law, people will be afraid to vote the way they want to vote. They'll vote for their own safety as opposed to their convictions. So the thing we call democracy depends on the rule of law. And the things we call the rule of law depends upon trust. Law functions 99 percent of the time automatically. It functions because we think itís out there. And that, in turn, depends on the sense of truth. So thereís a mechanism here. You can get right to heart of the matter if you can convince people that there is no truth. Which is why the stuff that we characterize as post-modern and might dismiss is actually really, really essential.

- snip-

The same thing goes with Mr. Trump. The things that he might do that some people would like, like building a wall or driving all the immigrants out, those things are going to be difficult or slow. In the case of the wall, I personally donít believe it will ever happen. Itís going to be very slow. So my suspicion is that it is much easier to have a dramatic negative event, than have a dramatic positive event. That is one of the reasons I am concerned about the Reichstag fire scenario. The other reason is that we are being mentally prepared for it by all the talk about terrorism and by the Muslim ban. Very often when leaders repeat things over and over they are preparing you for when that meme actually emerges in reality.

-snip-

TS: Yes. The point of the book is [that] we are facing a real crisis and a real moment of choice. The possibilities are much darker than Americans are used to considering. But at the same time, what we can do is much more important than we realize. The regime will only change if the gamble of the people in the White House is right: That many of us despise many others of us and that most of us are indifferent. If it turns out that there are emotions and values that are more numerous and more vibrant than indifference and hatred, things are going to be okay. That depends on us. That depends on us making certain realizations. It depends on us acting fast. In that sense itís a test, not just collectively. Maybe thereís no such thing as a collective test. But it is a test for us individually.

Most Americans who havenít been abroad haven't been faced by something like this. And hopefully they wonít be faced with it again. But we are faced with it as citizens and as individuals. And I think, five or 10 years from now, no matter how things turn out, weíll ask ourselvesóor our children will ask usóhow we behaved in 2017.

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Reply If We Don't Act Now, Fascism Will Be on Our Doorstep, Says Yale Historian. (Original post)
N_E_1 for Tennis Apr 2018 OP
dalton99a Apr 2018 #1
lastlib Apr 2018 #16
notdarkyet Apr 2018 #26
smirkymonkey Apr 2018 #2
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #3
Initech Apr 2018 #5
Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #7
elocs Apr 2018 #13
MariaCSR Apr 2018 #31
Hayduke Bomgarte Apr 2018 #11
Initech Apr 2018 #4
erronis Apr 2018 #17
Initech Apr 2018 #18
DFW Apr 2018 #34
kentuck Apr 2018 #6
triron Apr 2018 #8
StevieM Apr 2018 #21
Kurt V. Apr 2018 #24
Poiuyt Apr 2018 #9
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2018 #10
defacto7 Apr 2018 #12
Meowmee Apr 2018 #14
shadowmayor Apr 2018 #15
jalan48 Apr 2018 #19
notdarkyet Apr 2018 #29
Locrian Apr 2018 #23
Kurt V. Apr 2018 #25
yonder Apr 2018 #20
Locrian Apr 2018 #22
Anon-C Apr 2018 #27
dameatball Apr 2018 #28
coeur_de_lion Apr 2018 #30
appalachiablue Apr 2018 #35
rownesheck Apr 2018 #32
hedda_foil Apr 2018 #33

Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 12:52 PM

1. 1922, NYT:



He is credibly credited with being actuated by lofty, unselfish patriotism. He probably does not know himself just what he wants to accomplish. The keynote of his propaganda in speaking and writing is violent anti-Semitism. His followers are nicknamed the "Hakenkreuzler." So violent are Hitler's fulminations against the Jews that a number of prominent Jewish citizens are reported to have sought safe asylums in the Bavarian highlands, easily reached by fast motor cars, whence they could hurry their women and children when forewarned of an anti-Semitic St. Bartholomew's night.

But several reliable, well-informed sources confirmed the idea that Hitler's anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded, and that he was merely using anti-Semitic propaganda as a bait to catch masses of followers and keep them aroused, enthusiastic, and in line for the time when his organization is perfected and sufficiently powerful to be employed effectively for political purposes.

A sophisticated politician credited Hitler with peculiar political cleverness for laying emphasis and over-emphasis on anti-Semitism, saying: "You can't expect the masses to understand or appreciate your finer real aims. You must feed the masses with cruder morsels and ideas like anti-Semitism. It would be politically all wrong to tell them the truth about where you really are leading them."

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #1)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:42 PM

16. This book is a MUST-Read!! GIANT K & R!!

Snyder lays it all out--if we allow Dwump to continue on his path, democracy Will. Be. DEAD! IMPERATIVE that we toss him out on his fat ARSE--ASAP!!

Also encourage reading this: The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism Lawrence Britt identifies the traits of fascist ideas through recent history, and EVERY. One. of them fits Cheetolini to the tee! It's on our doorstep, folks--we MUST fight it here and now, tooth and nail! Those who do not FIGHT this enemy ARE the enemy!

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Response to lastlib (Reply #16)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:51 PM

26. Good link.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:09 PM

2. K&R

People always say it can't happen here. I say it can and it will if we don't stop it. This is not a drill people. This is serious stuff.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:17 PM

3. Almost as if we have to vote for ANY democrat, NO MATTER WHAT

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:24 PM

5. Ding! Ding! Ding! Vote like your life depends on it!

Otherwise Russia will do it for us!

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Response to Initech (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:29 PM

7. But I am a person who votes for ideas, not people, so I cant promise



so SICK of that SHIT

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #7)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:28 PM

13. So how has that worked out out for us? Because it sure helped give us Trump.

The GOP depends on the Left breaking off from the herd in the general election.
The time to change the direction of the Democratic Party is during the primaries, not the general election. I ALWAYS vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election.

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Response to elocs (Reply #13)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 07:23 PM

31. And then their dumbasses counter with

 

"Using fear to try and manipulate me won't work".

Ugh.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:03 PM

11. I arrived at that conclusion

30 years ago. A "bottom of the barrel Dem" is far more preferred that the "best rethuglicon", what ever best means.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:22 PM

4. Its already here! Fox News is practically state run TV at this point.

And they talk directly to Trump, since they know he's watching 24/7 and pretty much live tweets whatever they say.

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Response to Initech (Reply #4)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:46 PM

17. The link between fux and dump is much more direct. They are both getting orders

from the same handlers.

While donnie-boy needs to be given visual cues (blonds) to understand the real news and then to twit about it, the rest of the upper-level apparatus is already in tune.

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Response to erronis (Reply #17)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:57 PM

18. Yeah I wonder who is feeding Fox News.

What kind of sick assholes Rupert Murdoch set us up with. This is a direct bullshit pipeline. If we were to cut it off at the source I don't think it would stop the bullshit but it would certainly have an impact.

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Response to Initech (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 09:02 AM

34. Roger Ailes was the last surviving member of the 1968 Nixon "Dirty Tricks Team."

These people have been at this game a long time, and they adapt to new situations and technology very rapidly. Our having better ideas and bigger numbers will not always win out over that unless our numbers are too overwhelming for their fraud to overcome.

The "you-can't-make-me-vote-for-Hillary" crowd may have a point, but the time to make it is before the primary season is decided. Once the outcome is obvious, it is time to adopt a for-or-against stance, because it's all that stands between us and the end of our system of government as we used to know it.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:24 PM

6. I worry that the rule of law will disappear....

Totally.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:33 PM

8. 2016 was a corrupted election.

Putin installed Trump.

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Response to triron (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:21 PM

21. With more than a little help from our own FBI. (eom)

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Response to StevieM (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:41 PM

24. help indeed. after the comey letter is when Clinton's polling numbers started to change.

 

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:52 PM

9. Fascism, A Warning by Madeleine Albright

https://www.amazon.com/Fascism-Warning-Madeleine-Albright/dp/0062802186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523209721&sr=8-1&keywords=madeline+albright+fascism

Coming to a bookstore near you on April 10.

"A personal and urgent examination of Fascism in the twentieth century and how its legacy shapes todayís world, written by one of Americaís most admired public servants, the first woman to serve as U.S. secretary of state"

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:59 PM

10. Past week: 1. Database of journalists & bloggers. 2. Concentration camps on military bases.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:23 PM

12. Major K&R

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:28 PM

14. Fascism

Is already on our doorstep

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 02:39 PM

15. We're not fighting its arrival

It's been here for decades. Our real fight is to undo the Wall Street - Military Industrial Complex, neo-liberal economic model espoused by Thatcher and Reagan. It's already here, few like to admit it, and we need to fight the good fight to undo that which has slowly permeated the fabric of our republic. The wars we are engaged in are fought without protest, and our teachers have to protest to simply get their fair share. And now we're putting soldiers on our border again.

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Response to shadowmayor (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:00 PM

19. Our inability to confront the size of our Defense/War apparatus is a huge problem for our nation.

Money that could be used for social ills in our country is being gobbled up by the MIC. These powerful, entrenched interests seem to remain regardless of which party is in control of the government.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #19)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:59 PM

29. And going into a black hole nobody knows where. I always have thought it a crime and a sin.

Another of Orwellís warnings. Money would be wasted on expensive military weapons, so it could not be used to help the people.

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Response to shadowmayor (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:38 PM

23. yes - those are the real powers

They love how trump is destroying the gov and weakening opposition, normalizing chaos and corruption.

Even when trump goes, there is still a gigantic war to be won.

The fact that is has to be so blatant of a power grab with trump before people wake up (and some not) - makes me really nervous about the chances for success.

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Response to shadowmayor (Reply #15)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:46 PM

25. Exactly. tRump just made it an emergency. GOTV!

 

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:06 PM

20. K&R!

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:37 PM

22. and it's not just trump

The level of support he has (dismal as the numbers are in general) is still astounding.
High levels - massive corruption, loyal brownshirts.

It DEFINITELY can and will happen if we do nothing.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:54 PM

27. Kicked, Rec'd! nt

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:54 PM

28. There are any number of two-bit wanna be dictators in this country.

We have been fortunate enough over the decades that most of them failed to get elected and those that did were curbed by more patriotic members of other areas of our government. Things have changed. We have a Republican controlled Congress that allows the ongoing coup and a right-leaning SCOTUS that is either illegally or immorally tied to corporate interests.
It is up to us to defend and rehab what is left of Democracy.

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 07:16 PM

30. Fascism is way past the doorstep

He's sitting on the sofa watching faux news and he just made himself a sandwich.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 11, 2018, 04:58 PM

35. +1 Amen.

K & R

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Sun Apr 8, 2018, 10:14 PM

32. I'm still hoping

for a Jonestown type situation for the orange assmunch and his 30 percenters. I would volunteer to clean up the mess. Nice way to thin the herd as well. We're overpopulated as it is. The collective IQ of the nation would immediately spike. Go on kool aid man. Crash through that wall. Oh yeah!

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Response to N_E_1 for Tennis (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 08:51 AM

33. It's not just at the door. Fascism has opened the door and crossed the threshold.

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