Is it just me, or does anyone else object to calling the country of the USofA - America?

[erronis]

Even in the days when I could feel proud about being an "American" (post WW-II), I felt that it was not sufficiently descriptive and also seemed to include other parts of this continent who didn't want to be lumped in with the US.

Many US residents (maybe USrs - not to be confused with USSrs) seem to think that they speak for the two large continents joined by a fantastically varied isthmus of cultures. I think it is only USRs that call themselves "American". Geologists and historians probably also refer to this group as "The Americas".

So, if I were a Canadian, or a Mexican, Nicaraguan, Ecuadoran, whatever - would I want to be lumped into the crap that is happening in the USofA through the use of a common label: American?

I propose we don't voluntarily use the term "American" unless we are talking about the two continents in some logical fashion. I also ask that y'all propose a better terminology.

Next time you travel to "Olde" Europe or China or Mozambique - when they ask you what country are you from - do you answer America?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

1. Yes, not the clearest or most respectful term, but hard to avoid at this point. . . nt

[erronis]

12. It might be moot at some point. Another "soviet" in the hegemony.

The Soviet States of Middle North America, once commonly called the United States and sometimes referred to as "America".

[OregonBlue]

15. I travel quite a lot. When asked where I am from I say the USA. When asked my nationality I

always say American. If you say United States people just look at you funny until you say American and then they are like oh yeah. The only people it seems to bother are Scandinavians. The Canadians and the Mexicans and Central Americans don't seem to care one way or another, presumably because they have other names for their countries. Scandinavians tend to be very critical (for good reason of course) of US policies and politics and they are the only ones who seem to bring it up.

Trying to be sensitive we tried to use USA when people asked us but they just looked at us like we were crazy. To the rest of the world, people from the United States are Americans.

[mythology]

48. That's my feeling too

I avoid it in any formal writings, but in everyday speech tend to revert to Americans.

[muntrv]

2. I do. Peruvians are Americans too, since they live in

South America.

[Bucky]

20. Which makes Mexicans Norteamericanos

And yet they would be confused if you call them that. You got to go with the words everyone's using already. Renegotiating the language isn't a good use of your time or efforts

[muntrv]

3. I always thought we should be called New Britain since we

are based on British laws and customs.

[Bucky]

10. Not true

Sorry, but that's not really true. Louisiana laws are largely based on the Napoleonic Code. Many American Indian sovereign tribes have law codes and institutions that blend US law with Native law.

And most importantly, our federal Constitution, the sole legal foundation for our government, is entirely indigenous to the United States, based on the principles of the Enlightenment, not on England's unwritten Constitution.

[rogerashton]

49. Federalism

is sometimes traced to the Iroquois. Bit of an exaggeration, I think, but my memory is that Franklin made that connection.

[Bucky]

84. Franklin cited the Iroquois Confed. in 1757, for its military unity

There used to be memes and circular emails going around suggesting the Haudenosaunee Nations had an influence on the US Constitution. But there's no basis for it

There's zero documentation and, if anything, the Iroquois Unity Farm resembled the Articles of Confederation than the 1787 Constitution. In a very well-documented 3 months long debate in 1787, the Iroquois Constitution was not mentioned once.

[brewens]

4. No, but I hate seeing it call the USofA! LOL n/t

[erronis]

19. Think of the United Arab Emirates (UAE or AE), Russian Federation (RU) and its aspiration USSR.

I agree though with the dislike of USofA but would welcome improvements. Maybe "theRealAmerica"?

[Wwcd]

55. Me too. It's kind of a lazy way to address America.

United States of America.

There's no character limit here on DU like there is on Twitter.

[angstlessk]

5. We don't even call ourselves North Americans!

We want to claim the entire continent for ourselves!

[erronis]

9. Actually, both continents. WE (US) are the REAL Americans!

[Bucky]

37. Don't speak for me

I have exactly zero interest in doing that.

[pwb]

6. You have a point.

We are the United States.

[Spider Jerusalem]

7. I live in the UK; when mistaken for a Canadian I say "no, I'm from the States" or "the US" (n/t)

[BumRushDaShow]

35. I think "the states" is probably very much commonly used

when abroad and people seem to know what that means.

[shanny]

86. I do the opposite.

[Bucky]

8. Saying "UnitedStatesian" sounds silly

It's what people are used to saying. Arguing over the legitimacy of the etymology of what everybody in the English speaking world calls us seems like a trivial waste of time

[treestar]

11. Agree

I first came across this argument in the 8th grade, where my Spanish book had a reading making a point of this. They had come up with a term in Spanish "estadounidense," which they translated as "United Statian." Then ironically, since then, this term has passed into Spanish and is used in Spanish to describe us!

[Bucky]

16. Also in Mexico they say Norte Americano

That fits. I'm cool with that. But of course, geographically speaking, Mexico is in North America too.

Names are random things. I don't see Netherlanders getting their wooden panties in a bunch when we call them Dutch. Indians in this country are perfectly comfortable saying they're from India, not Bharat. I've never had trouble being understood buy a Chinese person then I didn't say ZhongGuo. And when a Korean says Meiguo, I know they're talking about my country.

[erronis]

24. Having known a few Walloons and Flemish and Dutch - there are a lot of heated discussions

But mostly as an excuse to try another round of great beer (non-American).

As far as Indians and other "sub-continent" (another discussion) resident, I've been corrected many times when I made a poor assumption about the provenance. Of course my brother-in-law was born in what's now Waziristan, moved as child to Lahore and then several moves within India because of the British/Allied "partition". There is a lot of very strong feelings about calling someone from India pre/post Raj. The list goes on.

Still, I try to be respectful to how people want to identify themselves. If I were from Brazil (for example), I would not want to be painted by a brush that included the US's Trump.

[Bucky]

25. "Call people what they want to be called"

Thank you. Exactly that.

[angstlessk]

14. Why do we need an 'an or ian'? The Irish aren't Irishan or Irishian

We are simply US citizens, or US visa holders, whatever our status?

[Bucky]

18. Parisians, not Parisites.

That's just how suffixes attached to place names work in the English language. I mean, do you really want to replace -ian with visa holder?

Nobody's gonna go for that

[Bucky]

13. Oh, and for the record

When people ask me where I'm from, I say Texas

Well, occasionally, and depending on the circumstances, I'll say Texas yeeeee-haawwww!!

[Orangepeel]

17. Meh

It’s short for United States of American.

When I’m out of the country, I will usually say that I’m from “the United States” or “the US” but when people ask, they ask if I’m American. That’s what most people in other countries call us.

[WheelWalker]

21. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't The Union the only nation with "America" in it's name?

The self-adopted name of the country is the United States of America, and its citizens might properly be referred to as USers to avoid confusion?

[Bucky]

22. In 1810 when Fr Hidalgo delivered his Grito de Dolores speech

And this is real important in world history, because this was the speech that began the Mexican war for independence. But when he gave his speech, he never use the word Mexico. He spoke of freedom and Independence for "America".

America back then was the name for all of the Americas.

Of course he didn't mean for Peru or New Granada. He meant for Mexico, and assumed that the other colonies would rise up if they wanted to. This was at the height of the Napoleonic Wars. Everybody was rising up.

Anyway, when it came time to naming their country, the people of Mexico did not go with America. The name was taken. History can be real random sometimes

[WheelWalker]

26. Grateful for this background. Perspective matters.

[Codeine]

23. How problem-free your life must be

that you can waste time worrying about something as utterly inconsequential as this.

[Bucky]

28. Ouch

I think the post is silly too, but I wouldn't go so far as personally insulting the original poster.

Maybe think about rewording that, or deleting the post.

[Codeine]

36. How is that an insult?

At what point does every single point of disagreement become insulting? I’ve no personal issue with the poster at all, but it really is a silly, sophomoric post.

[Bucky]

38. Friend, if you can't see "how problem-free your life must be" as insulting

Then you may need to work on your social skills a little bit.

[Codeine]

39. Oh goodness. nt

[pintobean]

57. Sounds more like a compliment.

[Bucky]

85. I think I know sarcasm & contempt when I read it.

The full post reads:

How problem-free your life must be
that you can waste time worrying about something as utterly inconsequential as this.

Yeah, I'm not seeing the hat tip here.

[WheelWalker]

30. Please be nice or disengage. Thank you.

[Codeine]

34. Im not being unfriendly in any way.

I simply find the issue beneath concern, and as this is a discussion board, I expressed that opinion. YMMV.

[choie]

74. If it's beneath concern

Then don't concern yourself with it.

[Hekate]

27. I object to calling my country "the Homeland," a post-9/11 moniker that reeks of "blood & soil" ...

...thinking not reflective of our "nation of immigrants" history.

"America" is so traditional for the USA even the Canadians use it, afaik.

[Bucky]

31. So... how do you feel about "Godsland"?

Or should we just stick with Conquertopia?

[Hekate]

41. You do know what "blood and soil" identity is? And you're picking on my dislike of it why?

Last edited Sun Apr 8, 2018, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

[greatauntoftriplets]

33. Part of the reason I don't like it is that is essentially fascist.

It's based on the German "Heimat" for homeland, which was common in Nazi parlance.

[Hekate]

46. Thank you for getting my point. Motherland, Fatherland, Homeland --these terms are freighted...

...with centuries of bloody European history.

"The people of the soil" referred not just to the peasantry, but to all those who worked land, owned land, possessed land, AND were the "right" religion and ethnicity. Other people had no right to be there except under a wary tolerance.

In Russian literature, the habit of referring to this or that character as a "rootless cosmopolite" was a none-too-veiled reference to Jews, who were not allowed to own land (though in the Pale they worked on it) and were inclined to fill economic niches in cities.

Throughout Western Europe this concept of who belonged where meant there always had to be an Other. It took hold hardest in some countries more than others (i.e. Germany).

We are different. We are Americans not solely by birth but by desire. Of course this is our home. But Dubya's sudden insertion of a term used by nations that were emphatically non-democratic, coupled with the passage of the USA PATRIOT ACT, seriously creeped me out.

[elocs]

29. I've though this for years. All the people of North, South, and Central America are Americans

in addition to their specific nationalities.

[Bucky]

32. and don't forget the people of Little America

they got rights too!

[Aristus]

40. No.

When I was in several countries in Europe, and was asked where I'm from, I always answered: "I'm from the U.S."

[erronis]

44. And I try to do the same. It's just that we at DU use "America" as meaning the US.

And, of course that's how it is portrayed by the larger media.

"America's gun problems"
"The American President said ..."
"The world looks to America to lead"

While every country on the two continents has its own variety of problems, the US is really special right now.

[Takket]

42. Northing wrong with it. It is an accepted shortening of USA.

also defined my Merriam Webster as referring to the continent or the USA

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/America

[erronis]

45. Funny how "american"-centric these references are.

I guess the winner gets to define the history and the dictionaries!

[melman]

72. Let me know when you find a Canadian

that would refer to themselves as American.

[malchickiwick]

43. How about Turtle Islander?

[rogerashton]

50. If I remember Lenni Lenape tradition correctly,

Turtle Island was the continent they came from generations before (presumably Asia) while the East-land (North America) was Snake Island.

[malchickiwick]

60. Hmm...that's not how I remember it.

Here's what wikipedia has to say:

Turtle Island (North America)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turtle Island is the name of North America according to some Indigenous groups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_Island_(North_America)

[tritsofme]

47. Are you actually serious? lol

[Squinch]

51. No, I don't object to it.

[applegrove]

52. We don't call ourselves Americans in Canada. Americans means only citizens

of the US of A. It is your name as a people. We nickname the place you come from as 'the States'.

[erronis]

54. OK - I'm guessing I'm just way too sensitive (New Age Man - Christine Lavin)

While most commentators have said the term doesn't make sense, it has been used in parlance enough to make it de-facto.

I'll go with that.

I'll also try to make sure that I'll use a term for this country (USA/USr/USofA) to define what I'm talking about. When I move to Canada (ha-ha) I'll make sure I always proudly use Canadian (or Canuck).

[applegrove]

56. You are not the first American to wonder about the issue. Nothing wrong with

sensitivity to others.

[dameatball]

53. We should just determine the latitude and longitude of our houses and just use that.

[erronis]

58. They've already figured out your lat/long, everything else. This is just about your nickname

Kidding - I hope you get this.

DU, Google, FB, security agencies, advertising/insurance/mortuary/etc. companies. They all know where we work, where we sleep, what we'll do, and how we'll probably die.

Maybe the best approach for everyone is to pick a name of their ideal Narnia.

It could be "America" and mean a land of milk and honey. (Back then)
It could be "america" and mean a place where you were being shipped by slavers.
It could be "America" and imply a refuge from the wars and hatred in Europe - if your ship wasn't turned away from the shores.

It could be Asia or the Far East - a land to be plundered
or Africa another land to be brutalized

I think that "Africa" and other European-spoiled places will rise up to be the next wonders of this planed.

[dameatball]

62. Yeah, I get it....:) I was just commenting on the absurdity of names really

As history unveils and we realize just how many peoples discovered "America" it is fascinating to see how civilizations really did spread. Not as simple as our textbooks. Which makes names just names for a particular time period.

[pintobean]

59. I'm an American.

I've never confused people in other countries with that answer. The world understands.

[erronis]

61. And as long as our brand of "American" is dominant, your world will understand

It's hard to imagine that this midriff of the Northern American continent can feel so comfortable saying "We're it. Everyone knows it".

I give. There are some people that understand a sensitivity towards claiming the name "American" as the moniker for the US.

Having watched the Washington Redskins dealing with a similar backlash as yours, it will just take time.

[pintobean]

64. The Redskins are still the Redskins

and Americans are still Americans. I think you're just going to have to figure out how to deal with it.

[GulfCoast66]

63. To me, people worried about this are looking for reasons to critique the US

Lord knows there is enough to criticize this nation for.

When we are in Europe, the wife and I are always referred to as Americans. And when asking where are from they almost always ask if we are Americans.

[erronis]

65. I'm not looking for ways to critique this country - as you say "the US"

I'm just suggesting that when we talk about "our" issues (I'm from the US, you're from the US) we use a phrase that is not indicative of everyone in the western hemisphere.

America is not the country with the highest healthcare costs and one of the lowest benefits. It is the US.
America is not the country with the highest rate of gun violence. It is the US.
America is not the country that treats education as a low-level benefit. It is the US.
Etc.

When we allow others to point at America and blame it for the ills of the US we are disparaging everyone else. But in reality it lies at the US political process and US financial interests.

[GulfCoast66]

70. Whatever, dude(or dudette).

You claim you are not looking to criticize America and then proceed to do just that!!

And all the ‘facts’ you state are pure BS.

Canada kicks our ass on most metrics. But the other nations in the ‘Americas’? Spend time in Brazil, Mexico or Venezuela and talk to me about gun violence or all the other things you mentioned.

Pretty much all the people on Earth call us Americans. On my trips to China I was an American in their words.

If you want to navel gaze and somehow feel we are the worst nation on earth, knock yourself out.

But this proud American will resist anyone who suggests that being a proud American is not a liberal value. Cause we will win no elections if we are not seen as proud Americans.

Which is what this whole thread seems about.

[JI7]

66. Everyone knows when speaking of Americans they mean US citizens

And not everyone from the entire Americas.

Even the rest of the Americas refer to US as Americans.

[erronis]

67. Everyone knows. I think I've stepped into a nest of non-scientific hornets.

And it appears that most (87.65%) are an "American" variety.

Fair enough. I didn't mean to start a pedantic war, just a suggestion for clarification.

Let's get back to bashing our non-favorite candidate/etc.

[Progressive dog]

68. No,

and I'm not going to stop using America as the name of my country and American as my nationality.
An American shortening "United States of America" to America harms no one.

Forty places around the world use America for their name. If you'd like to complain to each place personally, I've provided a link.
https://us.geotargit.com/called.php?qcity=AMERICA

[Hekate]

69. As I read thru my histories & novels of days when Europeans were glad to see our soldiers...

..."Americain" and "Amerikaner" were virtually magic words. And they specifically referred to North American United Stares citizens, nobody else.

[GaYellowDawg]

71. It's just you.

Get over it. It's not solely an American thing to call us Americans. It's pretty much what the world calls us. Because Statesians or USers or whatever else sounds stupid.

[choie]

73. No, it's not just you!

I can't stand when people say "America" as if the United States represents all of the North, South and Central American countries! Drives me Bonkers!!

[GulfCoast66]

82. Well, this American is sympathetic that you must de driven bonkers all the time...

Since the entire world calls us Americans and only a particular type of liberal has a problem with it.

[MountCleaners]

75. Frank Lloyd Wright made a similar point

He suggested we use the term "Usonian". "America" does bother me somewhat, but I know lots of Europeans and they can be pretty snippy about anything Americans do or say. Hypocritical, I think. But anyway, it's too bad "Usonian" never caught on.

[erronis]

88. How about Yankee or Yanqui?

That'll also piss of the dixies.

[hack89]

76. I am an American that lives in America. See no reason to change. Nt

[spooky3]

77. I agree with you about "America." But in my experience it is mostly people in other countries that

call our country "America." I refer to it as "the U.S." or "United States."

[guillaumeb]

78. We often referred to the US as the big neighbor.

[ProfessorGAC]

89. That's Pretty Funny!

Canada, i presume?

[guillaumeb]

90. Yes.

Big referring to population of course.

[Ferrets are Cool]

79. I've never thought about it, but you are absolutely correct in your thinking...

The arrogance we have given ourselves is incalculable. We have lost the right to be called the "greatest nation on Earth". Right now, we are the SHAM of Earth. JMO

[Marcuse]

80. Amerigo Vespucci is amused by this thread.

[Kablooie]

81. I worked with some Canadians...

And they didn’t like it.

[Codeine]

83. Im sure they didnt mind working with you

as much as you think. . .

[Raine]

87. No ... though if asked where I'm from

I usually say the United States just to shorten in it.

[Amimnoch]

91. I agree it's a misnomer, but pretty universally accepted one.

I used to think the same way you to.. pretty damned assuming to just call ourselves "Americans".

However, as I've travelled around, it's pretty universal, and nobody who you'd think might have issue with it seems to. Europeans refer to US Citizens as "Americans", Canadians refer to US Citizens as "Americans", Same with Mexicans, Brazilians, Venezuelans, Columbians etc. In all of my travels, and the few places I've lived as an Expat "American" is a pretty universal term for us.