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Mon Apr 9, 2018, 05:57 PM

Question for DU lawyers re. the Cohen thing

If the feds find that all the Stephanie Clifford hush money-related activity was conducted in New York, can they hand the case to the New York State Attorney General so Trump can't pardon Cohen?

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply Question for DU lawyers re. the Cohen thing (Original post)
jmowreader Apr 2018 OP
Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #1
beachbum bob Apr 2018 #3
Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #8
beachbum bob Apr 2018 #10
Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #11
jberryhill Apr 2018 #2
EffieBlack Apr 2018 #4
treestar Apr 2018 #5
magicarpet Apr 2018 #6
Gothmog Apr 2018 #7
Cirque du So-What Apr 2018 #9

Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 05:59 PM

1. It isn't where the activities took place that matters.

It is whether the conviction is for state (can't pardon) or federal (can pardon) crimes.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:03 PM

3. actually where the activities took place can have equal jurisdiction with Federal investigations.

If actions occur in New York, the State AG can have parallel investigations...but the AG of Connecticut can not...

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:26 PM

8. I don't even know where to start.

The only thing that matters, as to Trump's ability to pardon, is whether the crimes are state or federal.

Yes, there are certainly activities that could be covered by both federal and state statutes. But that wasn't the question posed. The question was whether "the case" could just be handed over to the state to avoid Trump being able to pardon him. It does't work that way.

If the activities took place in New York, Connecticut would have no jurisdiction. But again, not the point.

The only thing that matters as to whether Trump can pardon him is whether the activities constituted state v. federal crimes (regardless of where they happened).

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 10, 2018, 07:43 AM

10. a president can not pardon a state crime conviction are you saying that is not true?

I like to see where that is authorized because what I know about presidential pardons, it can ONLY go to federal convictions, so enlighten me about this

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 10, 2018, 12:40 PM

11. Umm....see my very first response in this thread.

The question was whether the investigation can be handed off to the state if all of the activities took place in New York, in order to avoid Trump being able to pardon him.

The answer is NO. The location of the activities has NOTHING to do with whether Trump can pardon the offense.

You essentially said that location might matter. It doesn't as to the question of pardon. Period. (Location matters as to which court has jurisdiction over the person or the subject matter, but not to whether the offense can be pardoned.)

The ONLY thing that influences whether Trump can pardon the offense is whether the crime is a violation of state law (no pardon - as I believe I've said at least 3 times) or federal law (which can be pardoned). Location of the activities is completely irrelevant as to the question of a pardon.

To avoid the offense being pardoned by Trump, the crimes would need to be a violation of a state law. Any state law. A New York law would do it, as would a Connecticut law. But handing off the investigation of a federal crime to New York officials does not transform a federal crime into a state crime merely because all of the activities took place in New York. Or Connecticut. Or any other state. There must be a state crime that he can be charged with. Not all federal crimes have a state counterpart. (The specific campaign financing laws he is being investigated by, for example, expressly alluded to in the OP may not have a state counterpart.)

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:02 PM

2. For the NY AG to do what?


What New York state law do you suggest was violated?

The payout to Daniels has been known for a long time, and there have been FEC and DOJ complaints on that since January.

What's relatively "new" on the Cohen front is that Felix Sater appears to have begun cooperating.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:06 PM

4. They can, but they don't have to

The State AG can take up the case independently, if they choose.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:09 PM

5. Not just because it happened there, but there could be a New York

Statute that was violated.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:15 PM

6. Wouldn't it be nice..... The State of New York slams them...

... as a continuing criminal operation under the RICO Statutes. Found guilty + long prison term + seize all assets.

_________


U.S. Code Title 21 Chapter 13 Subchapter I Part D 848
21 U.S. Code 848 - Continuing criminal enterprise

(a) Penalties; forfeitures
Any person who engages in a continuing criminal enterprise shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment which may not be less than 20 years and which may be up to life imprisonment, to a fine not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $2,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $5,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, and to the forfeiture prescribed in section 853 of this title; except that if any person engages in such activity after one or more prior convictions of him under this section have become final, he shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment which may not be less than 30 years and which may be up to life imprisonment, to a fine not to exceed the greater of twice the amount authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $4,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $10,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, and to the forfeiture prescribed in section 853 of this title.

More at link,
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/848

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 06:17 PM

7. Yes

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Mon Apr 9, 2018, 07:26 PM

9. As the cell door slams behind Cheeto Benito...

he says, 'Guard! I wanna speak to my lawyer,' to which the guard replies, 'that's easy. He's in the next cell.'

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