60 Minutes just did a number on Allegiant Air

[mobeau69]

Flyer beware? 60 Minutes' Allegiant Air investigation

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flyer-beware-60-minutes-allegiant-air-investigation/

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. They have an old fleet of MD-80s

A great old plane... if you keep them up

[DemoTex]

9. I flew captain on the MD-80 series jets.

I enjoyed this little refresher. It has been almost 17 years since my last MD-80 flight. And I, too, loved the quiet cockpit and the higher flap/slat extension speed. And the MD-80 is very easy to land. Quirky airplane, for sure, in a Douglas way (it is, after all, just a DC-9 (-80)). But I enjoyed my time flying the Mad-Dog.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

12. Im glad you enjoyed it!

They didn’t look that ancient when I got a tour of the cockpit when I was in high school ... and college when I was getting my private license. I used to fly AA back and forth to Oklahoma almost every weekend. Most of the times it was an MD-80. My dad worked for the airline so it was nothing to come home on the weekends.

That guy’s YouTube channel is pretty cool. His dad ran an airline. There is some video of him and his dad flying their DC-3.

[Blue_true]

18. I flew a lot on MD-80s. Never felt unsafe.

Some pilots landed them better than others ( some bounced them after first wheel touchdown, some had the wheels smoothly stay in touch with the runway), but the takeoffs were always smooth.

[Major Nikon]

22. I wonder if Allegiant Air picked up its MD-80s from American

[itsrobert]

25. They said they got them from mostly European airlines

n/t

[Major Nikon]

26. That could mean they were predominately used for shorter hops

Shorter hops means more take offs and landings per hours on the airframe which translates to more wear and tear.

[George II]

42. I worked in the aerospace industry dealing with Boeing and McDD (Boeing) aircraft...

...my last 16 years before I retired. I always referred (mostly jokingly) to every variation of that airframe as a DC-9. They were:

DC-9
MD-80
MD-81
MD-82
MD-83
MD-87
MD-88
MD-90

(there were also a number of dash numbers, too)

The last one was the Boeing 717, most of which were built at the Toronto plant. Years ago my uncle was the General Manager of that plant.

The DC-9 was introduced in 1965, so some may be more than 50 years old!

[tonyt53]

37. They have at least ONE A320. I've been on it TWICE and ready to go, only to have to deplane.

Had to wait for a couple of hours for an old MD-80, then re-board.

[lkinwi]

2. That was scary!

I’m glad that I now have the time to take Amtrak.

[TexasProgresive]

3. I guess Allegiant can have the nickname of the defunct Allegheny Air

Agony Air.
Trans Texas was Tree Top Air.
Southern was Slovenly Air.
Anybody have some more?

[gopiscrap]

4. Cascade Airlines was Crashcade or Casket Airlines

[mercuryblues]

11. US Scare

When my sis worked for them, that is what they called it.

[Tribalceltic]

31. US Scare was originally ...

Allegheny Airlines... I remember a lot of jokes about it when i was growing up

[BobTheSubgenius]

33. My one and only experience flying US Air was awful.

From the time I left my hotel in Bellingham WA to the time I put my feet on the ground in NY was 32.5 hours.

One of the hare-brained delays that made me miss a connection out of Las Vegas was US Air giving me a boarding pass meant for someone else. The TSA agent was less than amused...and I got to go start all over again at the US Air counter.

[Bavorskoami]

14. TTA nicknames

Trans Texas Air (TTA) - also heard "Trying To Arrive". I flew that one out of and back to San Angelo, TX, over the Christmas/New Years holidays of 1968/69. On the flight out of San Angelo the stewardess had some people change their seats due to balancing the weight within the passenger cabin. Seems they had replaced the engines on that plane it changed the weight distribution.

[cab67]

27. Sabena

(now defunct Belgian company) was said to be an acronym for "Such A Bad (or Bloody) Experience - Never Again."

[marked50]

30. America West I called America Worst

Refused to business travel on them with my company.

[gay texan]

36. TACA

Take a chance airways

[Bob Loblaw]

38. Al Italia

Always Late In Takeoff Always Late In Arrival

[yortsed snacilbuper]

44. I used to fly from PGH to Morgantown, WV, Allegheny Airlines,

on a DC 3, it flew over my home town, I was in the service!

[doc03]

50. How long was that flight 30 minutes? I flew Piedmont Air

from Wheeling WV to Washington DC a few times back in the 60s in small prop jet plane with maybe 15 passengers. I think Allegheny and Piedmont merged into US Air, didn't it?

[superpatriotman]

5. The FAA guy was oily

The epitome of an unfeeling, company-owned toadie.

[lkinwi]

7. That is exactly what a friend and I texted each other during the segment.

[Marie Marie]

40. This is the guy that is supposed to keep us safe??

He was a joke - and not a funny one.

[Ccarmona]

6. Add Its Miserable Safety Record to Its Nickel & Dime/Bait & Switch Fares

It’s a wonder Anybody flies on Allegiant.

[doc03]

8. Have used Allegiant a few times, cheap flight if you have no luggage.

I flew from Pittsburgh PA to St. Petersburg FL recently for $59 but a carry on was $20 extra and a checked bag was $25. You have to pay extra for any seat unless you take whatever they give you. They even charge extra if you want water or a 4 ounce cup of Coke. Every time I have used Allegiant I have had severe ear pain on landing for some reason. All the planes I have been on were Airbus models. Flying any airlines today pretty much sucks.

[cagefreesoylentgreen]

10. Everyone who works at LAS knows how scummy they are

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. That looks like ValuJet all over again.

Back in the 1990s the airline deregulation thing was still in full swing, and the FAA had a hands-off attitude because of what was then the statutory dual mandate of ensuring safety while promoting the airline industry. ValuJet was a new, low-fare airline that bought a bunch of old DC-9s from foreign airlines, and outsourced most of its maintenance. After the crash in the Everglades in 1996, which was preceded by other accidents and incidents, some heads rolled at the FAA on account of their lax enforcement, and ValuJet ceased operations but was resurrected as AirTran. The FAA also tightened up its inspection and enforcement procedures. But now it looks like the same thing all over again. And I remember the FAA administrator at the time of the Valujet accident came across just as weaselly as the guy in the 60 Minutes report.

I used to work for an airline that had a number of older airplanes for quite awhile, but significant malfunctions were almost unheard-of because the planes were well-maintained; they were eventually retired because they were gas hogs with obsolete navigation systems, not because they were unsafe. If this 60 Minutes report is accurate, Allegiant is just asking for a bad accident if they don't abandon that dangerous old ValuJet model. It was kind of shocking that they apparently didn't learn anything from that accident.

[dflprincess]

16. According to 60 Minutes the current CEO of Allegiant (Maurice J. Gallagher, Jr)

was involved with ValuJet and they mentioned the Everglades crash in connection to that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. I noticed that.

Apparently the guy has a short memory.

[dflprincess]

21. Or just so callous he figures he'll have made off with enough money

that the eventual settlements or lawsuits won't hurt him.

[Major Nikon]

20. There could be more or less to this story

Allegiant Air has an older fleet and can be expected to have more mechanical problems than with newer jets. So comparing them to airlines with more modern fleets is not exactly a fair comparison. If the number of failures is still relatively low there may be no real issues. That being said airlines are increasingly sourcing out their maintenance to foreign shops where FAA oversight is more difficult and with the budget for FAA inspectors always getting cut, the train wreck may be just around the corner. Until that happens it's a safe bet Trump and the rest of the GOPhers aren't going to increase the oversight budget.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. It seems like they have a ridiculous number of malfunctions

given the size of the airline. Our old DC-9s (and there were a lot more of them than Allegiant has) seldom had significant problems, but they were well-maintained, mostly by in-house mechanics. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of malfunctions I knew of that were significant enough to require a diversion or a return to the airport. The fact that their planes are older isn't a very good excuse; their operation can be safe with adequate maintenance and inspection.

[dflprincess]

24. BTW a mutual friend of ours just pointed out on Facebook that one of Allegiant's former officers

(Jude Bricker) is now the CEO of Sun Country....Which I heard has gone downhill since it's sale. The evening news did a piece on a number of people stranded in Mexico because their Sun Country flights back to Minnesota were canceled because of the weather and Sun Country has no intention of rescheduling their flights, they've been told to find other airlines.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. I am expecting Sun Country to go to hell in a handbasket before long.

It was a pretty good little airline for awhile (I know a pilot and a dispatcher and a few other people there), after it recovered from being driven into the ground by the LaMacchias in the '90s. But it's been bought out by a private equity fund, Apollo Global Management, which "specializes in leveraged buyout transactions and purchases of distressed securities involving corporate restructuring, special situations, and industry consolidations." So we can see where that's going.

[spiderpig]

15. TWA was Twenty Wobbly Airplanes or Try Walking Across

United was Untidy.

And back in the day, Allegheny was Agony Airlines.

[dflprincess]

19. Because I have friends & family who have flow Allegiant between Minnesota & Arizona

I posted it on my Facebook page, hoping they will see it.

As I scrolled through feed I found a picture of my nieces' cousin (other side of their family) posted of her family waiting to board their flight to Orlando... and there sat an Allegiant plane - though I couldn't tell if it was a MD80. Hoping she doesn't see my post as they are now in Orlando but have to fly home next weekend.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. That's an MD-80.

Or maybe not. I was looking at the photo from the 60 Minutes show. If it looks like that, though, it's an MD-80.

[Frustratedlady]

32. I flew Allegiant to Florida a month ago and had no major complaints.

My only problems were the added charges and selling stuff on the flight, like credit cards, plus a rude seat mate.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. You get what you pay for.

Passengers want cheap flights. But airlines are expensive to run, so those cheap fares will come at another price. You just hope it's not maintenance.

[dflprincess]

39. I really miss the days before deregulation.

When all the airlines could compete with was service.

While I don't fly often, when I do, I stick with Delta. I'd rather pay their prices with the reasonable expectation that they will get me to my destination and back with few or no surprises.

[Major Nikon]

46. Or pilot standards and training

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

47. Which the FAA has to sign off on, in great detail, as to every event.

[Major Nikon]

49. There's still a lot of room for bad pilots to slip through the cracks

The more money for oversight is cut and the more self-certification that happens, the greater that risk becomes.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. The major airlines have FAA people assigned to their flight training departments

and they watch every aspect of the training programs and events like hawks - that was my experience, anyhow. But this tv show suggested that the FAA has recently started emphasizing enforcement less in favor of negotiated, cooperative agreements about compliance. To some extent that's not a bad thing because it encourages people not to hide mistakes and violations and to accept retraining. They have been taking that approach for quite awhile, and in general it works pretty well. But if they seldom enforce the regs at all, which sounds like what's been going on at Allegiant, that's a recipe for disaster. The big airlines pour tons of money into their training programs; the regional airlines and the budget carriers, which tend to have pretty thin training programs anyhow, are the ones the FAA needs to watch carefully, and evidently they aren't.

[Major Nikon]

52. I think it's only a matter of time before the big airlines start farming out their training

Part 142 already has the framework you describe and I'm sure the smaller airlines are already doing it. Move it out of the country and it gets cheaper while costing the FAA more to regulate.

[shadowmayor]

35. And the regulators

Fail to regulate again.

[Demsrule86]

41. My son was in the plane four hours...before takeoff in Ohio.They have since left.

[question everything]

43. That the founder of Allegiant also founded ValueJet said it all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Airlines

That was the case that clearly illustrated the dual and, often conflicting roles of the FAA: promote aviation and promote safety.

And, for my money - you get what you pay for, though I realize that many here will disagree.

[George II]

45. About 10 years ago, around the last time I traveled regularly before retiring (this is long)....

....I had a flight from Hartford to Columbia, South Carolina, on Delta Airlines, connecting through Atlanta. I was due in to Columbia at about 9:30 AM. The connecting flight was on a local "partner" (wish I could remember the name now, for some reason I'm thinking Southern Air)

The flight from Hartford to Atlanta was uneventful, we arrived on-time shortly before 8:00 AM.

When I got to the connecting gate in Atlanta, the aircraft we were supposed to be on wasn't there, there was a substitute (2nd aircraft).

After a short delay, we boarded, but before leaving the gate they announced that there were "mechanical problems" that they were working on. An hour or so later they announced that they couldn't resolve the problems, we needed to deplane, and we needed another aircraft (3rd aircraft).

So, we waited an hour or two and they sent us off to a different gate, where there was a dual prop Dash 8 waiting for us. This time we boarded, left the gate, and taxied to the runway for takeoff. While we were still climbing, the pilot announced that "there's a mechanical problem with the left engine and we're returning to the gate" - I looked to the left - the engine FAILED and the prop was merely spinning from the air speed.

So we circled the airport and approached for a landing. As we were landing, I noticed that the runway was lined by fire trucks and ambulances on both sides - VERY encouraging, never saw that before!

After arriving at the gate we were told there would be a "slight delay" while another (4th) aircraft was prepared. Screw that, I immediately went off to the car rental counters to find a car to drive to Columbia (only a 3-hour drive). I got the last available Hertz car (apparently lots of others had the same idea as I had), and drove to Columbia. I got there at 7:00, about 11 hours after I should have if that crappy commuter airline wasn't so pathetic.

PS - when I got back to Atlanta after my meetings, I checked in and was told I would have to pay an extra $XXX because I didn't use the second leg of my incoming flight. I told the woman to check the "history" of that second leg, she did, and said "oops, never mind".

[cwydro]

48. Thanks for posting this!

[mr_lebowski]

53. I'm lucky enough I can just fly Southwest everywhere I'm likely to go ...

I've tried Allegiant, they very obviously pack the seats closer together than Southwest, and in BOTH directions Height and Width ... As a tall dude, I just cannot deal. And 6 years ago I flew them and they had a 5-seat wide cabin, next time I flew them 3 years ago the same plane model (pretty sure) had a 6 wide cabin. The narrowness of the seats on top of how close the seats in front of you are was just ludicrous.

Combine the ridiculously cramped quarters with the rude flight attendants and ridiculous upcharges for EVERYTHING, and even though they flew out an airport that was 50% closer, and with a much cheaper parking lot and quicker security than the one SW uses in my area, I decided it's really not worth flying that airline over SW. You don't save enough (and if you have 'luggage', you save really little) to make the experience 'worth it' to me.

Also, even though I've flown them for only like 8 flights (4 round trips), they are the ONLY airline who ever cancelled a flight on me, and made me go stay in a hotel for the night. That's never ever happened to me w/any other airline.

Rather go with 'what I know', and that is that Southwest is a damn solid airline that I never have a bad experience on.