DUers of Color: Tell Your Story

[EffieBlack]

There have been several discussions the past few days about the incident in which two black men were arrested for "defiant trespass" at a Starbucks on the command of a white manager because they didn't buy anything while waiting for a friend. Some of the discussions have been very interesting and enlightening, but there has also been a very troubling level of dismissal by some who have denied the existence of rampant discrimination against African Americans - in fact, some have actually blamed US for not being more compliant with the police or for unfairly blaming white people for racism where it doesn't exist.

It is clear that, despite considering themselves progressives, many Democrats just aren't aware of the racial dynamics in this country, perhaps because they've never actually experienced or witnessed it themselves.

So, I thought it would be helpful for DUers of color to tell our stories, to offer examples of how we've encountered discrimination, profiling or other indignities and to describe how this felt and/or how it affected you.

I also invite white DUers to share incidents that they have witnessed affecting their minority friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, etc.

I suggest this, not to start any kind of racial battle on this board, but to help more people understand the situation we've been trying to describe and address.

If you don't have a story to share that can help illuminate this discussion, please simply read and think about the posts without pushing back on them. Please don't step in to challenge or argue with any of us who are trying to tell our stories. This thread is not intended to start any argument or any kind of flame war. I am trying to help people LEARN.

Please let this be a positive learning experience for all of us.

So, I'll start -

I have so many examples - it could be a book - it's hard to pick one, but here goes:

A few years ago, I parked in my reserved parking spot at work. When I got out of my car, I was approached by a middle-aged white man I'd seen around the building before. He told me that space was reserved and that I would have to move my car. I politely told him that I was fine parking there, but thank you. He insisted that I move, that I wasn't supposed to be there. I again told him that I was fine parking there and started toward the building. He jumped in front of me, essentially body-blocking me and told me that if I didn't move my car right now, dammit, he was going to have it towed. I said nothing, walked around him and went to work.

When I got to my office, I picked up the phone and called his boss and told him what happened. His boss was mortified. He called me back a few minutes later to tell me that he had read the guy the riot act. "Do you know who she is?! She is MY boss's boss's BOSS!. You just rolled up and confronted the MOST SENIOR PERSON IN THE ORGANIZATION!"

Yes, this middle-level manager, about four rungs down the organizational chart from me, felt perfectly entitled to tell me, a senior executive who was parking in MY OWN DAMNED SPACE that I had no right to park there, demanded that I move and threatened me physically. No one will ever be able to convince me that he would have done this - or even THINK of doing this - to a white person, male or female. He saw my black face and it never even occurred to him that it was even possible that I deserved to be there. And he felt that he had all the right in the world to challenge me.

His boss asked me if I thought the man should be reprimanded. I told him no - he probably didn't know any better but having something this embarrassing happen to him probably got his attention. I suggest that he send him to diversity and inclusion training, which he did.

I left not long after that so I don't know what happened to him. But I do like to think that every time he remembers this incident, he cringes and is reminded not to make judgments about people of color and certainly not to wave his privilege around in our faces.

Fortunately, in this situation, I was in a position to address the situation and shut him down. Many of us don't have that advantage. But it's an example of how these attitudes affect people of color, regardless where we are on the socio-economic ladder.

Ok, y'all - YOUR TURN

[HipChick]

1. Have to commend you for handling that in a professional manner..

Corporate institutional racism is insidious..

[Glorfindel]

2. Thanks for the opportunity, EffieBlack

I'm a white man from the southern Appalachians. Fifty years ago, my favorite first cousin got engaged to be married to an Asian man. They could not get married in Georgia, but had to travel to Tennessee to tie the knot. A very small thing compared to what others have endured and witnessed, but indicative of the time and place. The story turned out well, though. Their daughter is my god-daughter, and 40 of us are going to Antigua in July to celebrate the couple's golden anniversary.

[usedtobedemgurl]

3. I hope I can ask a question without sounding racist....

Are you sure it was not a combination of you being a person of color AND a female? I know many women of color and they often tell me it is a double whammy for them to be colored and a woman.

[EffieBlack]

5. That's an excellent question

And, no - I don't think you sound racist.

I really don't know. There certainly could have been some intersectionality at work there. But in my experience, my blackness always trumps my femaleness in these situations. And I have seen that white men (and often women) are much more accepting of white women in senior positions and don't make the same assumptions as they do about black people. I also have a gajillion stories about my black male family members and friends treated this way and I have been subjected to similar treatment (although not as pervasive or often) by white women, as well. So, based on that, I surmise that his reaction was driven much more by my color than my gender, although both may have played a role in blowing his narrow mind ...

[usedtobedemgurl]

7. Thank you so much...

for answering my question and not jumping all over me. I have heard outright stories of people of color and I have heard stories where friends are sure it is a mixture.

I never know if I can ask questions because a certain subsection of friends tell me I can. Another, more militant section, tell me I should take a comment exactly as I see it and I am not allowed to ask questions or I will get figuratively jumped. I am never sure where I stand with strangers and being yelled at does not encourage curiosity.

[bettyellen]

102. I think that he would have been less bold in confronting a man if he was alone....

I feel like they’re always ready to harass a woman, but need the comfort of a group to go after a man. Unless he was very young or slight, I don’t think he’d do more than comment- from a distance- if it was a man. Not that it matters, I agree it’s about skin color. You handled that really well.

[Croney]

4. Nope, there's no racism in Baton Rouge!

White woman here. Visiting relatives in the suburbs, I lamented the lack of public transportation. "Not true! There's a bus that brings the maids out in the morning, and takes them back in at night."

[mercuryblues]

6. A teaching moment for my son

We went up to the deli counter at a store. The service clerk had her back to the counter cleaning a slicer. There was an AfAm woman there waiting when we walked up. The clerk turned around and asked me what we would like. I looked at her, pointed to the AfAm woman and said she was here 1st. The clerk's expression led me to believe she hadn't even seen the other woman there. Even though she had looked directly at her before addressing me.

Now, I would understand if she hadn't seen me, I am so white I blended in to the cheese display behind me.

[happy feet]

69. Black female here

Thank-you for noticing who was there first. As a black female, I can't tell you how seldom a person in your situation does this.

I used to let it slide but as I grew older, I always speak up for myself. I've had every kind of reaction --- from the other customer arguing they were there first (they looked at me when they walked up) TO the clerk calling me a liar with a disgusted look on their face before proceeding to wait on the other person, and everything in between. Don't worry, when they don't acknowledge the mistake and wait on me --- I have my ways of calmly but deliberately inflicting pain on the clerk, management and the establishment until I elicit an apology. Post apology I return any/all merchandise I purchased as they stand there. I'm never quiet.

It's so normal that I have to fend for myself (airports, hotels, retail stores, ticket lines, et al), I'm effusive with thanks when people do what you do. It's almost like being affirmed that I am a fellow human being. --- which when you think about it is quite a sad way to exist in the world.

So THANK-YOU for what you did.

[ehrnst]

8. K&R

[Tipperary]

9. I am white and female. I was promoted rapidly when I was quite young.

Major corporation. The same thing happened to me, and yes it was a middle aged white guy who challenged me too. I smiled, extended my hand and introduced myself (including my title). He looked embarrassed, introduced himself also, and slunk away. I still remember his name for some reason. I did not call his boss.

Just curious why you did not just tell him who you were? I know you did not have to do so, neither did I, but I found it an amusing experience. I know he would not have challenged a man.

[EffieBlack]

15. Great story - thanks for sharing it

I didn't tell him who I was because I just didn't feel like explaining myself to him.

Maybe a minute before or a minute later, I would have felt and done differently. But in that moment, I felt "I don't need to explain shit to you. Get out of my way."

Your question raises a really good point. Minorities and women always have to read every situation, constantly make snap decisions about how to address them, assess what all of the possible outcomes could be - and then, no matter what we decide to do, get second-guessed and blamed for not doing it differently. And we have to do it all right there in the immediate moment while we're still smack in the middle of the situation we're dealing with, yet keep performing perfectly without a glitch.

A perfect example of this occurred during one of the debates when Trump physically stalked Hillary around the stage. She writes in her book about how she had to weigh what to do - whether to challenge him or ignore him - and she had to do all of that calculating while answering the debate question. And she was criticized for choosing to ignore him and admitted she was still second-guessing herself for the choice she made.

This is something that white men just don't have to deal with. It's like having an extra job or having to walk around in a heavy wool coat and mittens 24-7. It's exhausting and frustrating, isn't it?

[Tipperary]

19. You are absolutely right. I am gay also, and I was never in the closet. Exhausting yes.

I have more stories lol. I am pretty androgynous looking, I suppose, and have been in airport restrooms and watched women stop and look pointedly at the restroom sign, then at me.

I ignore those moments usually, but I have a friend who rips into women who do that. You are so right on deciding how to respond, usually in a split second. Sometimes I will ignore it, only to second guess myself later. Very tiresome.

[mercuryblues]

57. You ignore them

in the restroom. So you know a bit about having to continually validate your right to be in a space, by uninformed busy-bodies. You choose not to when in the restroom, yet questioned her choice of not feeling obligated to inform the guy why she was parking in her own space.

It is like playing whack-a-mole. Yes she could have just told the guy who she was, and then tell some different person the next week, then the next week and so on. Like you said, it is tiresome.

[raccoon]

32. Yes, women and minorities are used to be questioned and challenged.

For the most part, white men aren't accustomed to that. Some of them get defensive when challenged.

[spooky3]

79. If you had been a white male, you probably

Would have told him exactly what you were thinking in the 2nd pgh. And you wouldn’t have had to worry about how you came across, etc., because he would have been horrified to see that he had offended a superior. And if course since that interaction would not have involved racism, it wouldn’t be nearly as horrify-worthy as an incident that did.

[EffieBlack]

81. True - but if I'd been a white man, he wouldn't have assumed I wasn't supposed to be there.

[BobTheSubgenius]

85. Two examples of snap decisions being required 'in the moment.'

Just a quick word about that, and I'll duck back into the shadows and just read.

Have you ever read a book titled "Blink", by Malcolm Gladwell? It is about exactly that process - and that we should develop and trust that response. His thesis is that it can be just as accurate as a considered decision, and often vastly more useful, because of being so timely.

I'm afraid I have nothing of substance to add to the general discussion, being as Caucasian as can be, and living in one of the whitest municipalities of any size that you've ever seen.

Interesting and instructive thread, though.

[heaven05]

146. bullshit

[Nitram]

10. Thank you for sharing your experience.

We could learn a lot from those who have had to endure experiences like this on a daily basis. I would like to hear more stories if people are willing to share them. Thanks!

[MineralMan]

11. Thank you for sharing that story.

For many of us, stories like yours can come as a surprise. We don't always realize what actually goes on, due to our not being people of color. Since such things do not happen to us, we don't recognize the experiences of those to whom they do happen.

On another note, I think you handled that incident very, very well, indeed.

[panader0]

12. I am white. When I was 18 in '68 I had a black roommate as a freshman

in an Oregon college. Our room became the meeting place for the Black Student Union
guys. We listened to music, got high and talked into the wee hours. Vietnam, but mostly
politics and racism. I insisted that I was not racist, but they gradually made me understand
how deep racism is intertwined in our society. My roommate and I became great friends, double dating every weekend. When Ron Karenga (now Maulana Karenga) came to speak I was asked to save the
front row in the auditorium. After most of the people were seated, the BSU guys came down
the aisle in their dashikis.
I learned so much that year, mainly that I needed to learn more.

[IronLionZion]

13. I'm constantly told I don't belong in my own country

which the worst and most direct impact happens when applying for jobs reserved for US citizens and some asshole thinks that means whites only. People make up excuses to block me from applying for security clearance jobs by saying I'm not clearable. "Well this job is only for US citizens, not you" "You won't get security clearance because your parents are immigrants, your grandparents live in India", etc. All BS. I have clearances now, but it was a long and painful experience to get here and it's pure awesome sauce now that I'm here. I have to fly to get where a 22 year old white person can just stumble into from college.

The other advanced persistent threat in my life are people telling me I don't deserve to apply for any job that has the word "Business" or "Management" in it, like Business Process Improvement or Risk Management, despite my masters degree and certifications and work experience. "You belong down in IT with the other H-1bs in the windowless basement." And I get this from educated white liberal hippies in my life who don't know why it's wrong to whitesplain to me how business is evil and I should not be applying or interviewing for business jobs. I love white liberal hippies, but they also irritate me endlessly.

Flying while brown is always an experience that whites can't even imagine. I always get selected for the completely random extra screening where they go through my bag by hand and I have to take off my shoes and belt and other stuff a second time. I have TSA pre-check. Honey badger don't care. Every single time. Flying with a group of college buddies was frustrating because these white guys thought it would be funny to joke about bombs during the security line knowing fully well that I would be the only one pulled aside for questioning, and I was.

Coming back to the United States is both amusing and ridiculous at the same time, made infinitely better now that I have CBP global entry. It was fun flying into Houston's airport and my parents and I were confronted by a middle aged white guy similar to your OP story as he white-splained to me that global entry kiosks are only for people with global entry (we have global entry) and global entry is only for US citizens (it's not, but we are US citizens). As he was spewing nonsense, we calmly walked up to the kiosks, scanned our passports and fingerprints, got our printed out passes, and walked to the uniformed guards to show them and enter our own country almost as if we were Americans(we are). This is one example where automation needs to kill off more jobs.

I love white women very much , but I dated one who was a real piece of work. She had anger management issues and was an alcoholic and chronic cheater so we would get into heated arguments and I would want to leave. She banged other guys and felt entitled to yell at me for not approving of it. She didn't like me walking away from her while she was screaming at me, so she'd threaten to call the cops and lie to them. That stopped me in my tracks and I gently tried to calm her down and listen to her emotional/verbal abuse of me. I'm dark skinned and wore hoodies at the time, cops would not be a good experience for me. Apparently she's done this before to other dark skinned guys. When I finally did break up with her for good, she promptly womansplained/whitesplained to me that ending our relationship was equivalent to female genital mutilation in Africa. It was patriarchal oppression and I've earned very terrible karma for the rest of my life and future lives.

sigh

[HipChick]

30. IronLionZion - Please do not let ignorant dolts keep you from achieving..

Thank you and need more diversity in upper management. I recently had an interview at a well known corporate entity, I don't want to name names but it is a corporation that is very much in the news right now. They flew me out to their headquarters, and I did a bunch of board interviews all day, the whole time I was there, the only POC, I saw was working in the cafeteria. The lack of diversity disturbed me.

[IronLionZion]

34. Thanks!

Sometimes we refer to it as the bamboo ceiling, but there is definitely a glass ceiling in many companies where they have a very specific type of person they have in mind for leadership roles and staff other roles based on stereotypes, not qualifications or experience.

[irisblue]

39. "I love white liberal hippies, but they also irritate me endlessly. "

yeah me too, my tie dyed shirts & sandals and all. Great line ILZ

[IronLionZion]

40. I like tie-dyed shirts and birkenstocks and activist marches and yoga

it's the judgment and guilt trips I can do without

[7962]

118. SO you breaking up with this woman was equal to female genital mutilation????

Good lord, this woman doesnt need A therapist, she needs a squadron of them.

[IronLionZion]

121. That's the brutal patriarchy we live in

and I've been enjoying my bad karma ever since

[geardaddy]

14. Thank you for posting this and sharing your story

I am white and I welcome these threads to help us all learn about each other and our troubles. Mrs. geardaddy and I volunteer at Big Brothers Big Sisters here in Minneapolis and our "little" is a 15 year old African American young man. Sometimes when we go out, I notice the looks we get. It has helped me realize firsthand (well not firsthand since I'm not a POC) how people of color are perceived in general.

K & R

[lark]

16. EffieBlack - thank you!

I know I was blown away after the Trayvon Martin incident when I talked to one of my good friends. I am white and she is black and we live in NE FL. I asked her how she was raising her son Jordan to deal with this kind of racism. She said every black mother has a talk with their sons when they are young to let them know that they could be targeted by police or others simply because of their race. That was just shocking and so sad to me, I never realized before then at a visceral level how truly racist and hate filled some folks are that it impacts good law abiding middle class black folks so severely. I knew we had a race problem, but just way underestimated the pervasiveness before that moment.

So, thank you, for giving us this sharing & learning opportunity. We still have a long ways to go, but this is a good step.

[yallerdawg]

17. I'm learning that white people make a whole lot of culturally racist assumptions.

I'm also recognizing and acknowledging how gracious and forgiving our casual targets are.

One thing is true - for all our sense of some kind of innate white "superiority" - we are extremely "slow learners."

[safeinOhio]

18. In Jr. High my class read a book,

Black Like Me. Changed my life for the next 55 years. It should be mandatory reading in all American schools.

I go out of my way to smile and great people in general and especially anyone different than myself. Be it place of birth or skin tone. I get the best reactions and biggest smiles back from those the most different than myself.

[Ohiogal]

27. I also read that book in high school

and I agree it should be required reading in all American schools.

Thank you Effie for starting this thread, I am learning a lot (and ashamed of a lot in behalf of any people of color who were treated badly).

[Amaryllis]

74. That book opened my eyes too.

[40RatRod]

20. As a young white enlisted man I bought a mobile home from an African American Sargent...

...Later, the morning after Equal Rights passed we were taking a coffee break and a white guy came in and yelled at him and asked what he thought of the new law.
I still remember his exact words. "At least when my wife and I are traveling and she needs to use the bathroom, I don't have to find a place that will let her!"

[malaise]

21. A few years ago I was shopping with a sister in north Florida a day or two before

one of the nephews graduation from UF. An elderly white women came up to me, held on to the pink blouse I was wearing (as if I were a fugging mannequin) and wanted to know where I got it. The look I gave her must have stunned her for she apologized.
She was lucky - if she wasn't obviously older than my own mother I'd have slapped her.

[FakeNoose]

91. Wow that's kind of shocking

It sounds like that woman was accusing you of stealing the blouse you were wearing?

Just .. Wow!

[malaise]

92. No she wasn't accusing me of anything - it was a lovely blouse

baby pink Indian cotton - she genuinely wanted to know where I got it, but the assumption that she could touch me was troubling. If she has asked me without touching me, I'd have told her.

[FakeNoose]

93. Sorry - I read that incorrectly

I guess she was admiring your blouse and didn't realize she was also invading your space. I know a lot of old ladies who do that, it's a little thoughtless but not really insulting. (I'm an older white woman myself.)

[malaise]

95. The way I see it, touching me when you don't know me is

not merely an invasion of my space; it is assault. If some man decided that he liked some part of my anatomy and he had the right to grab it (like Groper Don the Con), it would be sexual assault.

[Egnever]

22. An interesting story but how is it indicative of race?

Have had nearly identical thing happen to me some folks are just busy body assholes.

Racism certainly exists especially when you are looking for it.

But not every time someone pushes you is it all about race. This guy clearly did not know who you were and assumed that you did not belong there since he did not recognize you. Instead of saying actually this is my space you were flippant and dismissive and offended.

Then you made it a race thing when you have no idea if it was race at all.

Obviously there are countless examples where it is race but there is no way to know from what you related if this is. You played as big a role in that as the the man did by dismissing his concern and not clarifying who you were. It is restricted parking he is an employee that did not recognize you. Pretty much an asshole thing to do to be sure but some folks are by the book no excuse people and stuff like that bothers them.

But your first instinct is to blame it on race. Racism is a problem to be sure but blaming every time something doesn't go your way on race is a problem as well.

[LanternWaste]

23. Gladly, not one person is arguing that. In fact, you'r the only one mentioning it.

"But not every time someone pushes you is it all about race..."
Gladly, not one person is arguing that. In fact, you're the only one mentioning it... not that there's never irony in doing as such.

But I am however, quite confident in your further consistency to reduce or minimize any perceived racial aspect of our culture to anything other than a racial aspect of our culture.

[EffieBlack]

24. You are not following directions

“If you don't have a story to share that can help illuminate this discussion, please simply read and think about the posts without pushing back on them. Please don't step in to challenge or argue with any of us who are trying to tell our stories.”

[Egnever]

25. I don't do directions well

[EffieBlack]

26. Clearly you do not. That is certainly your privilege.

But i’m not going to take the bait and I urge others here not to either.

We’re trying to have a respectful conversation and your attempts to hijack it and take into another direction are not going to work.

[tonedevil]

41. You may think you recognize racism,

but your comments make it clear that you don't. More than that you don't seem to recognize the expressions of it coming from yourself.

[BumRushDaShow]

42. "I honestly just don't understand racism. It makes no sense to me."

And some will never "get it" and aren't worth the time.

[ehrnst]

62. Clearly.

[Cha]

76. That's too bad.. they would

have served you well.

[heaven05]

148. that's for sure

[Bok_Tukalo]

31. "That spot is reserved!"

"Yeah. For ME."

Conversation over.

[marble falls]

50. Congraduations. Billy Jingo will be resting with the fishes soon.

[Bok_Tukalo]

53. He was a surly cuss

<OPE>

[marble falls]

54. He surely was. He got a LOT of attention! Glad to have you back. It made a big difference for me....

when I was able to use my original account.

[JCanete]

55. Because it happens so much along racial lines...because people make assumptions about status

AND character along racial lines. Have you ever watched those videos where they have a white guy, a white girl and a black guy, all about the same age, trying to get a lock off of a bike? Would you like to guess at the varying responses?

Here's a Canadian example...

[heaven05]

149. I have seen

these. Excellent example of system and institutional racism.

[moriah]

71. Not equating being ginger to being black, but...

... why could I *never* skip a class in college without the professor commenting, even if I usually sat in back and didn't engage?

Why did it stop when I dyed my hair for a semester?

There's no scientific evidence, of course, just a case study and not a set of data upon which I could isolate all variables and come up with it being statistically significant when run through a computer....

But the connection was pretty obvious to me, as was the difference when I covered my copper.

Yeah, I might have talked too much in class, maybe Effie's treatment was because of being female or youthful-appearing. But I'm inclined to believe her experience was race-related. And if someone reading doesn't believe that it was necessarily caused by racism, they should at least make an effort to contemplate what it's like being unable to eliminate a variable in how people treat you, and to be forced to deal with things that do seem inexplicable unless race *is* a factor.

[pnwmom]

88. Right. And it's just coincidence that the two young men kicked out of Starbucks

were black.

And that the young man who was denied a code for a Starbucks bathroom was black. And the young man given the code was white.

Yup, all just coincidences. There are lots and lots of these coincidences, but no one should ever be concerned about systemic racism, because there's no way to prove that a particular act of discrimination was based on race. Maybe the people experiencing all these coincidences are just paranoid.



:

[betsuni]

89. LOLWUT

Bye-bye.

[Lazy Daisy]

108. Here's an idea

How about Mr. by the book mind his business? Was it his job to monitor parking spaces? I think not.
Unless he knew by face and name who's parking space it was (which clearly he didn't) he made an assumption that a black woman didn't belong in that space and felt entitled to tell her so.

The sad thing about it, the experience probably didn't teach him a thing.

"why didn't she just tell him who she was" - why should she have to answer to him? Again, was he the parking lot attendant? Did he have authority over parking spaces? No. He just thought he was entitled to tell another person what they can and can't do.

Nevermind the proper way SHE should have handled it, the proper way HE should have handled it was to just mind his business. If she indeed did not belong in that space as he suspected, the rightful parker would have rectified the situation when they arrived.

[Squinch]

110. I think she handled it exactly correctly. She owed him nothing in the way of explanation or

introduction. He couldn't even fathom that fact.

[heaven05]

150. ++

[Squinch]

109. What a perfectly ignorant and dismissive post. Not sure how it took so long for you to get flagged.

Glad it has finally happened.

Buh bye.

[MineralMan]

116. Well, your post is informative, for sure.

I'll try to remember it in the future for what it represents.

[heaven05]

147. you are kidding

white people when it comes to being racist contributing to ameriKKKan racism are flippant, dismissive, offended and makes it about race when dealing with POC and that has been a generations long problem. If this had been a reverse situation, you know a black man telling a white COO_CEO that she must move here car, she would have been on the phone, police would have been there inside of a minute and the black man would be dead. Your dismissal of EffieBlacks experience shows EXACTLY why racism has survived so long in ameriKKKa.

The example you cite are bullshit as to who are affected by racism. You are not. Except to, as I see it, excuse, diminish and flippantly make racism based on your experience as a white person in ameriKKKa, not a prevalent or important problem in your book. I guess any unarmed POC slaughtered by white supremacists, both 'state authorized and sheet wearers since before slavery should not make their deaths by lynching, burning or shooting about race, right?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. K&R

[forkol]

35. Yes, there are so many...

But, here's one that really stick out.

I was in a summer intern program near Chicago. One Saturday, some of the young ladies wanted to go into Chicago to go to a popular club. It was raining cats at dogs, and I didn't really want to go, but they insisted, and since I had the only transportation, I went. We went off in the club, and since I really wasn't into clubbing much, I walked around a bit. A guy bumped into me pretty hard, said something that I didn't understand, but I ignored him, thought he was just a bit drunk. (I now think they tried to goad me into a fight...) I ordered a drink and was sitting down at a table, listening to the music (big fan of Chicago house music). After a while, some guy with an earpiece comes up to me and asks me to come to the front door. When I stepped out of the door, that's when I was informed that I was being thrown out of the club! When I asked why, I was told that I fit the profile of a "purse snatcher". I was upset, and I told the guy, no I was just enjoying the music. We went back and forth, but they stated they were not letting me back in. I had left my umbrella at the table, and they would not let me re-enter to go it it, and I don't think they got it for me either. So, I ended up waiting in my car until the ladies were done in the club. I told them what happened. They could not believe it.

The next day I called the Manager of the club. Well, to keep it short, he really didn't give a damn. So, I then called the Chicago Office Of Civil Rights, which is an actual part of the city government of Chicago Ironically enough, their office was right across the street from the club! They asked me to come in and tell them my story, and recorded the information. They said they would be in contact with the club, but they told me to not expect much, because they didn't have any power to compel them to reply. They also told me they had received several complaints about that club as well.

Fast forward a year later, and I get a call from the Civil Rights Office. They had gotten citation power, and had cited the club, and the club was sending their attorney over. There were wondering if I would meet with their attorney. Since I was in Grad Studies in Georgia, but I live near Chicago, we decided to have a meeting over Christmas Break when I would be back home. The folks at the Civil Rights office told me there's probably not much they could do still, but they at least wanted to scare the club a bit. So, we had a meeting with their lawyer, where they basically took the club to task and to say that they were keeping their eye on them. I do remember the lawyer asking me what I was studying in college. I laconically told him I was studying "Advanced Purse Snatching!". The look he gave me at that point was classic. I then informed him I was getting a Master's in Computer Science.

The thing is that even though that event occurred over 25 years ago, I'm still angry about it as the day it happened. I'd often thought of going back there and ordering a bunch of food and then walking out. The club is closed now. I guess that will have to be the resolution I have to live with.

[cyndensco]

38. You never really get over these experiences.

Sure, when groups of us get together we can share experiences and even chuckle about them, but the scars remain. Thank God for "the club is closed now" resolutions.

[radical noodle]

36. I grew up white in the suburbs of Indianapolis

I had black kids in my class at school. I had never seen anything at that time that made me aware that blacks and whites were treated differently until...

There was a nice beach just outside of Indy. Our friends were going there to swim and relax on the little beach (man-made). My parents decided to go there one Saturday afternoon. When we arrived, we witnessed a black family being turned away because they weren't members. As we also turned away (because we weren't members either) the owner beckoned us to come through and pay. My mother questioned him and said, "but we aren't members either." (okay, we were naive) He indicated that the membership was just to keep n*****s (called negros in polite society in those days) out. What a wake-up call! We turned around and left.

I (much later) learned that the swimming pool that we all went to every summer did not allow blacks either. I continue to be upset that I ever patronized their pool.

While the north didn't have the Jim Crow of the south, they were more sneaky about their racism. I've since had black friends tell me they prefer the racism of the south to that of the north because at least they know where they stand in the south.

[cyndensco]

37. My story

It was finals time, my sophomore year in college and I went to an off-campus McDs to grab an early lunch and do some last minute studying for a test. After ordering my lunch and walking down the aisle to an empty table, I heard someone scream "DON'T RUSH ME MISS!" I was stunned when I realized it was an old white woman screaming at me.

She continued walking down the aisle chanting "You are just a Nigger! All Niggers Steal! All Niggers Cheat...." I was frozen. This white old woman who I didn't know even EXISTED 30 seconds earlier, and whose existence I cared NOTHING about was assaulting me. I looked around for another black face - strength in numbers - but it was early and I was alone. I did catch the eye of a white boy who I had never spoken to but who lived down the hall from me in the dorm. He looked down when he saw I had spotted him but i swear he had a smirk on his face up to that point. In my head he was thoroughly enjoying the entertainment.

I put my tray on a table and followed her into the bathroom. Only a few feet separating us, she kept chanting, loudly, the nigger shit. To my face! I wanted to hit her so bad but she was carrying a shopping bag from the expensive department store next door, was wearing what I thought was a fur coat, and I knew I still had to cross Main Street to get back to campus. All I could imagine was either this rich bitch would hit me with her Lincoln as I crossed Main St. or the cops would arrest me for assaulting a white broad. Plus, I was not a violent person. I conjured EVERY anti-white epithet my mother had shared through the years and hurled them back at her. It really wasn't enough. The experience shook me.

I left her in the bathroom, grabbed my tray and went to the counter to request a refund. I could not eat but was a poor college student who could not afford to throw away $2.35. The manager claimed s/he was not aware of what happened and asked me for details. I just left the tray and the money - I was not ready to relive it.

That night I went against family-phone-protocol and called my mother even though it wasn't the weekend. She listened to the the story, allowed our conversation to go over the usual 3 minutes, apologized that I had to experience it and told me that that woman was crazy.


Actually, I eventually did get some satisfaction: In my jr. year I saw the old woman at a city bus stop. She was carrying a (the same?) shopping bag and sporting a black eye. She had run up on the wrong (right?) person.

Years later, I was on the bus going to work and I heard a woman shout, "I'm not moving over for that Nigger." It was her and she refused to let a young black, pregnant woman sit in the open window seat next to her. The bus was FULL of us - even the bus driver was black - and this broad kept with the nigger shit. My mother was right - that woman was crazy.

[RandomAccess]

43. A few experiences

When I was in high school, back in the mid-60s, there were a few black students in my St. Louis suburb school, and they pretty much kept to themselves, near as I could tell. I mostly remember the boys, who had a good time together, cutting up and having fun. There was one black girl in band with me, a year ahead of me. We both played clarinet and were both pretty good. We had fun together, joking and laughing, and I wanted to be friends beyond that, but she subtly discouraged it. At the time it hurt a little. Later, when I figured out what was going on, it hurt more -- but not for me.

1970. I'd gone to college for a year, quit and worked for several years, got married to an Army guy on his way to Vietnam. When he got back we moved to Atlanta. I'd gotten us involved in a discussion group that met in a woman's home who was going to be out of town for the next meeting so I offered to host at our apartment in Marietta. One of the members was a beautiful human being who was related to Willie Mays. He told me he couldn't come. I don't remember any exact words, but I was insistent, and so was he. He finally made me to understand it would be dangerous for him to come.

A year or so later. We moved into Atlanta and I had to go downtown to put a deposit down for electricity. I got there a little before the offices opened and there was this dear, tiny, somewhat shriveled African American woman sitting on one of the benches in the lobby next to me. I tried to make conversation to pass the time, but she didn't have much to say, and would always answer "ma'am." Here I was maybe all of 22, and this lovely woman who surely was 90 or close to it was calling me ma'am. So wrong. Tears still well up in my eyes about that.

30 or so years later. My second husband and I moved back to Georgia, this time to Stone Mountain. He was in management for a fast food restaurant chain and when he got into the stores was told that under no circumstances can they hire blacks for store management positions because the KKK would assault them. A year or so later my son and I are driving into the tiny village of Stone Mountain and just on the outskirts of town was a large sandwich board announcing a KKK rally. We were both appalled. His idea: let's steal it on the way back (so no one else would even see it). Unfortunately, the rally being over, the sign was already gone when we came back through.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. Did you live in Stone Mountain?

I lived in Lithonia. Of course, Redan is right there too, but Stone Mountain is a very small town, so I was just curious, not many people know there is an actual town associated with the physical thing.

[RandomAccess]

45. I didn't live in the village, but in the larger postal area

known as Stone Mountain. Not at all far from the mountain itself in one of the many subdivisions in the area.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Neat. I haven't come across anyone who lived there since I lived in GA.

We used to go to Stone Mountain all the time. I liked the petting zoo.

[RandomAccess]

47. Are you still in Ga?

[Behind the Aegis]

48. Nope. I live in OK.

I live in a small town north of Tulsa. I haven't lived in GA since I was 14.

[heaven05]

151. I lived in the valley

down from and under Stone Mountain, Ga. The second founding of modern KKK started there in 1915 or 1905 depending on source. Still very active. Huge carvings of traitors Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis.

[sheshe2]

49. K&R

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. Per my point, but she surely was driving a nice car of some sort, yet

that "economic" status didnt help her, did it.

[sheshe2]

60. No.

It did not...and that is all I will say about "economic equality".

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. I will listen for a while, thanks...But as to the garage experience, you clearly would have been

driving a car that was of some value or status yet he attacked you anyway, tossing out the NONSENSE that economic injustice is even remotely close to the same issue racism AND misogyny is.

[mnhtnbb]

52. I would appreciate DU'ers of color stopping by my thread and leaving a comment

if they choose.

I had never seen an ABC store (controlled liquor sales in NC) set up this way where customers could not browse the aisles to look at merchandise. It was a predominantly black neighborhood (and in fact I was the only white person in the store at a time when at least a dozen people were coming/going while I was there).

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210515079

[justgamma]

56. Around 1960 we took a trip

to Niagra Falls. Raised in a small, all white, midwest town. I was never taught to be racist. I was young and didn't even really know it existed. We took a tour in a 6 passenger car. There was the driver (who had an accent), a black couple, and my mom, dad, and me.
The driver told the black couple to get in front. It made perfect sense to me, but I'll never forget the look he gave my dad, like I dare you to object. (He wouldn't have). The other man said"You want us to sit in front!??"
When we were at a museum, I asked if they were enjoying the museum. He looked over my head and barely nodded.

It was years later that I realized that they never got to "sit in front" and the man was probably afraid to be caught talking to a young blond girl.

A few years later dad took us to see "Black Like Me". What an eye-opening movie!

My brother-in- law is Mexican. The first thing he said to me was "are you prejudiced?" I said no and he gave me a big hug. This was around 1982 and I didn't know people were prejudiced against Mexicans. It had never occurred to me.

People have to be taught racism.

[blaze]

61. "People have to be taught racism" but we're born with white privilege.

I'm a 62 yo white woman. I can, and always have be able to, walk into any store to shop and not worry about being followed by staff concerned that I might be a shoplifter.

I would be willing to bet that EVERY black DUer has been followed in a store.

And that is just one, pretty overt, example of white privilege. It is, in reality, far more pervasive. And I'm pretty sure I fully understand just the tip of this iceberg.

[happy feet]

72. I can confirm your thesis

Emphatically, yes.

[betsuni]

90. Obligatory posting of "You've got to be taught to know how to hate" from South Pacific:

[hunter]

64. My grandpa was white U.S.A. Wild West.

He'd run off to the big city of Cheyenne Wyoming when he was sixteen. Laugh if you know early twentieth century Cheyenne, it was no big city. He loved airplanes so he'd joined the Army Air Corps and was an officer in World War II. He was later an engineer on the Apollo Project having mysteriously acquired wizardry with titanium and other exotic metals during his military service. He honestly had black, gay, Jewish, and even a few women coworkers he treated with respect, even some he called friends.

But he lost it when I declared my intention to marry my wife. Men in his family simply did not marry, in his words, "Mexican girls." My wife's parents were both born in the U.S.A., her dad in a farmworker's tent near a small farm my parents used to own, and a ranch my grandpa had boarded his horses at.

My grandpa boycotted our Big Catholic Wedding, but to his credit he eventually accepted us and I like to think he left some of racism behind him.

[misanthrope]

68. "I didn't know people were prejudiced against Mexicans"

I never saw that in action either until I went to Texas. It just wasn't something I came across growing up in Birmingham, Alabama from the mid '60s through the early '80s. The color line that really mattered most in that place and time was the one involving liquid refreshment. "Were it 1955, which water fountain would you be drinking from, 'white' or 'colored?'" If you were Mexican, it would have been the "white" one.

I always wondered if that was part of the reason my wife's Lebanese family moved to the Deep South in the early 20th century after coming through Ellis Island. Had they stayed in NYC, they would have been in the "Arab" neighborhoods and immersed in that insular lifestyle. Down South, they drank from the "white" fountain. They already had a leg up on a significant portion of the population simply by being seen as "white."

[George II]

58. I like the way you seemed to intentionally NOT tell him who you were or that that space....

....was assigned to you. If you had that would have shut down the confrontation, but wouldn't have taught him anything.

I have a story that isn't an example of racism (I'm white) but one of class/economics (if you want, I'll delete it if it's out of place here)

About 45 years ago, after I graduated from college, to pay off some college bills I took a 3rd shift weekend job as the admission clerk in the emergency where my brother was the administrator. It's on the upper east side of Manhattan (Park Avenue) where many of the people were white, rich, snooty classists.

Anyway, one night at about 1AM some rich drunk guy came in with his head cut open from falling on the street. It was a busy night with several parents with their sick children (actually, now that I think of it there is a touch of racism, but not directed toward me) in the waiting room, most of them were Hispanic. So this guy comes in and, when I told him it would be an hour or so wait, he demanded in an arrogant superior way that he be taken in right away. I told him there were people ahead of him. He looked around, saw who they were, and again demanded to be taken in right away. I refused. So he said, "I want to speak to your supervisor", I told him the supervisor doesn't work on the overnight shift, but if he wanted to he could go see the administrator down the hallway. As he turned to go, I said to him, "but it won't do you any good, he's my brother!" He sat down in the waiting room sheepshly.

We wound up putting him in an examining room and he fell asleep for a couple of hours. Believe it or not, after he slept it off he came out and a apologized to me. That made me feel good.

[ismnotwasm]

63. Few DUers of color left it seems

Great thread though

[hunter]

65. It was TRESPASSING damn it! As a white person I can always depend upon the police to bring justice.

911 is fucking MAGIC!



I don't know where I went wrong in my life, but my experiences with the police are mixed. I always think hard before I call them, and when I do I make sure to explain the situation in great detail so there will be no misunderstandings. Even so there are sometimes misunderstandings.

I'm a white guy, therefore I enjoy immense privilege, but I'm not always right in the head or in action, so I have had some interesting interactions with police.

For example, years ago, I was returning from some field work in the desert in my decrepit old car, very unbathed, unkempt, and unshaven, when I decided to stop by my girlfriend's house in Santa Monica. Our relationship wasn't close enough that I was willing to wake her up in the early A.M. so I parked my car and slept. I woke dragged out of the car and booted to the pavement by the police like some wretched vagrant. The officers slowly came to the realization that I was something else, picked me up, brushed me off and took off, but they didn't apologize or anything.

Even if I had been some sort of wretched vagrant sleeping in my car I didn't deserve that.

[murielm99]

66. You got that right.

I wonder what happened to them?

[EffieBlack]

70. Many of us got fed up with being whitesplained, lectured to and dismissed by "progressives"

DU is not a particularly friendly place for minorities - especially minorities who raise issues of racism without permission or who don't adhere to certain views or support certain candidates ... I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for the compliment.

[qwlauren35]

67. This is a different kind of story.

I am light enough to pass. I never do it intentionally, but I know I'm getting over most of the time because of white privilege.

I remember one day I was having lunch at a restaurant in the South with my mom who is light brown. When the waitress came up to us, she asked if we wanted separate checks. I said "no, we're fine". She asked me again, and again I declined. She asked me a third time and finally I got it. I said "This is my mother." She turned and walked away. The bill was on one check.

I remember going to Iowa once and being driven to a science program I was attending. I asked if there would be any other black people there. The guy stared at me like I was nuts. I said "I'm black." And he said "I don't think you should tell anybody." I didn't know what to do. So, I didn't tell people. But I think my hair gave it away. My assigned roommate asked to move out. So, when they assigned someone else, I said "I'm black. Is it a problem?" She said no, and things were good between us. But passing sucked. There are things that white people say when there are no black people around that are just *ugly*. There was one kid there who was, I think either Italian or Eastern European. At 16 he had a full beard and could go into liquor stores without being carded. I think he felt different and wanted to fit in. Or something. So he went around saying how much he hated niggers. I did not stand up for myself. I think I would just get as far away as I could.

My father, born in 1922, grew up in segregated DC. He was also light enough to pass if he kept his hair short. When I was trying to figure out my life, I asked him about passing. He said "why should I want to go anywhere where my friends can't go." I think that has always been how I lived my life. I work very hard to make sure that people know I'm black. Mainly because I don't want to be in "all-white" space and have to listen to the filth that can come out of people's mouths when they think "it's safe."

[moriah]

73. This may not entirely be on topic, but the guy who mows our lawn...

... apparently is having some medical trouble, digestive issues.

He started to excuse himself today to leave and find a public restroom. I said if he felt more comfortable he could, but we DO have a bathroom... He seemed shocked I invited him in my home, and kept apologizing after.

I felt terrible having to reassure a person that everyone poops and it was okay.

Yes, he's black, we're in the South, he's probably had unhappy experiences when he dared to have biological needs. It just made me so damn sad for him that he apparently had been made to feel so guilty/inappropriate/scary by others for needing to go that he'd have hesitated to ask.

[Amaryllis]

75. I think of myself as not being racist, but have become incresingly aware over the years of white

privilege and how subtle it can be. What really made it click for me was when I heard a black person talking about it in a forum, and she said white privilege is when a white person is stopped by a traffic cop, they are worried about getting a ticket, paying a fine, and their insurance rates going up. When a black person is stopped, they are worried about getting shot.

This really gave me pause for thought, made me realize how pervasive it is, and wonder about all the other areas where I am blind to white privilege simply because it's outside anything I've experienced.

I have a very close friend who is a Congolese refugee who works at a progressive company that does employee trainings on this, and he talks to me about what he learns. Being African, he didn't grow up with it, but as a refugee living in a refugee camp for 13 years before coming here, he experienced living with shame. Refugees were looked down on by those outside the camp who were not refugees.

I really appreciate the perspective of those who live it. Thank you for your very thoughtful post. There is nothing like thoughtful dialogue to open hearts and minds and help us see from another's perspective.

[torius]

77. As an Asian American I was given crappier work to do

Work that was more difficult and lower status. The "higher status" work was divided up among the white workers; I had to work on ALL of it and without interaction, just sitting in a corner all day until my eyes burned and stung.

When I complained, my boss told me I was smart and industrious and could handle it, hat I did it "better and faster" than the others, but as I was "quiet" it was better if I didn't interact with the higher-ups. (This job was something like quality control, and I was good at it, but some of the others were too, and some were far "quieter" than I was, and introversion/extroversion had no bearing on anything.) Basically he said I was a smart robot and he was fine having me do all the difficult work even if I was physically suffering. Gosh, I would think doing a job better and faster might lead to a promotion.

But his code words "industrious" and "quiet" make me feel sick to this day. I am half Asian, half white.

[spooky3]

78. Im sorry this happened and have no doubt it was racism

But it was also likely to involve sexism as well. I have had similar experiences as a white female interacting with some white males who were peers or subordinates, but won’t recount any because that’s inconsistent with the purpose of the thread. I’m trying to say I agree with you.

You might be interested in the following TED talk (especially the incident starting at 5:30). The speaker is in a unique position to comment on sexism because she is transgender and has many experiences as a man and as a woman. It’s like a nearly perfect experiment where everything else is controlled. Unfortunately there are probably few if any parallels where the individual has changed perceived races or ethnicity. But my guess is that at least to some extent, experiences would be similar.

https://m.

[EffieBlack]

82. Thanks for sharing this - I'll take a look

And I'd love to hear your story. Would you share it?

[spooky3]

84. Well, here are two.

As a new professor, i was using a copy machine after hours (ie after support staff left for the day) with our department’s key. A male professor in another department removed the key and told me that only professors had permission to use keys.

Much later in my career, as a former department chair and tenured full professor, I was working in my office one day when a student without an appointment stopped by. She greeted me with “Hello, Jane, Dr. Smith suggested that I talk with you about (a certain subject).” Dr. Smith, of course, was a white male assistant professor, junior to me and in fact someone I supervised when a dept chair. I decided to gently point out to her the sexism (several aspects of it here). She became indignant and wouldn’t accept it even though it was obvious what she had done and certainly appropriate for a full professor to treat it as a teaching moment for her. If she had been more open she might have learned about what she would likely encounter once she began her career.

[robbob]

104. I had a boss who had a doctorate.

He didn’t mind being called by his first name, once you got to know him, but I remember early on I addressed him as “Mr. ...” and he immediately corrected me “It’s Doctor ...”. I heard him do that on more then one occasion.

[spooky3]

105. Thanks. But the point of the story was that the

Student, whom I had never met, used my first name, while referring to my younger and less accomplished male colleague, with whom she was obviously more familiar, by his title. It was disrespectful and sexist. She was also quite presumptuous to simply drop in and expect that I would help her, when the standard practice was to make appointments.

The fact that you did not see this at first reading should make you ask yourself if you also not seeing racism and sexism in other incidents, as the OP explained.

[lunamagica]

80. K&R for visibility.

[Afromania]

83. Welp

I'm not going to go into any particular story because my experiences and grievances aren't all that distinct from the ones a myriad of voices have already given to each of them a thousand times over. I shared one such story from when I was a child some time back where I was met with a running "discussion" from what I can only hope was a troll due to the overall tone deafness of the replies. The only other thing I can say is that each of these distinct interactions have impacted the way in which I experience just bout every aspect of my life right down to what I decide, or not decide, to post on this very site.

[tulipsandroses]

86. I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this video has been posted but this right here-

I still don't know how to embed a video so I've just linked it.
[link:https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/starbucks-arrests-highlights-disparity-of-racial-experiences-1211580995589|

[betsuni]

87. Interesting to get a little tiny taste of this if you're white when you live in another country.

As a foreigner in Japan, in the past I've been followed in stores, empty seats next to me on public transportation while people stood, older women in line for the toilet stall I've just exited get in another line rather than chance catching all my diseases, told by the neighborhood garbage police that the glass jars I was dropping off for recycling were foreign and unacceptable, given earlier times to arrive at events because everyone knows foreigners are always late (this one might be true, except for me), in general having eyes on you in public just in case you do something suspicious, my sister-in-law after more than twenty years still thinking I can't eat Japanese food. These days mostly only the older generations think foreigners are all disease-ravaged criminals, though. Whenever my father-in-law saw a murder or robbery on the news where the criminal was on the loose, he'd mutter, "must be a foreigner." Whenever there's a horrible crime I hope it wasn't done by a foreigner.

Sometimes getting paranoid. For example, it used to be a joke among foreigners in this city that middle-aged women riding bicycles would get off and walk their bikes when passing a foreigner. I'd forgotten all about that and then it happened to me a few months ago and I almost laughed out loud. No other reason for the woman to suddenly get off her bike and walk it until she was past me, get on again and ride away. Or the time I was leaving my apartment at the same time as the next door neighbor and she turns around and takes her kids back inside and as I pass hear her telling them that something was scary. Me?

But I still have white privilege. Never been stopped by the police, never had problems with visas or questioned at immigration, never had trouble renting an apartment, nobody ever thought I must be a bar hostess or illegal. If I'm the only white face at the immigration office or when I pass the factories that employ workers from other Asian countries as they get off work, I feel like there's a flashing neon sign over me saying IMPERIALIST OPPRESSOR (this should probably go in the paranoid category as well). When I go back to the States, my white privilege is incredible. Nobody gives me a second look in stores or walking around anywhere, I make no one nervous. I have the feeling I could steal a car on a busy street in broad daylight and nobody would be able to give a description, I'd easily get away with it.

The difference is that of course I can leave here any time, it's not my country or culture. Totally different to be treated as a foreigner in your own country, but getting a taste of what it must be like is extremely valuable.

[Queen of the Iceni]

94. Shit happens to me all the time.

I’m in my mid-60’s, disabled so my adult son takes me shopping. A few weeks ago we bought two shopping carts of items in Walmart, my son had the receipt. He walked out ahead of me and left me walking slowly behind because it was raining and he went to the car to unload his items and then would come back for me. When I got to the exit this old white man demanded my receipt and I told him I didn’t have it my son did.

This old man told me I wasn’t going anywhere until I produced the receipt. I asked him if I was being detained, he told me I was until I showed him I had a receipt despite me telling him I couldn’t stand up any longer and I had to sit down - now. This nasty old white man got on his radio and talked to someone and insisted that I stand there.

Meanwhile my son spots us and I hold my hand up to stop him and so he is watching the situation from outside. We both want to see where this is going. I was furious at this point and had become very loud.

After about 10 mins a huge man comes out into the lobby and without asking for a receipt he immediately tells me “You can go”. I unleashed on him about my rights, the constitution etc being held without cause - I was upset. He just blinked at me.

Just yesterday in Safeway I was with my son while he picked up a few things (he’s taken me to another store to shop) and I was sitting by the lottery machines waiting for him at the check-out. The check-out woman shouted out to me, “I need to see your ID”! I struggled to my feet walked to her and told her I wasn’t purchasing anything. I clearly look my age, mid-60’s. Her tone was extremely rude as she held her hand out for my ID. I told her I didn’t think I had any ID on me. (I don’t drive anymore). She said I could buy the beer until I showed her my ID. I told her I don’t even drink beer and I wasn’t paying for it, my son was, I was just having a sit down. Luckily I found my license tucked into my phone case and my 30 year old son was allowed to pay for his beer.

This shit happened in the last few weeks and I could come with worse stuff but I’m sick of it. I’m sick of being pushed around.

[FakeNoose]

97. Showing ID at the grocery store to purchase beer/alcohol

This happens to everyone of every age and any color. I'm an older white woman (in my 60's) and I've had rude demands to show ID to buy beer in a grocery store - only because they do it to EVERYONE. The 21-year old kid at the cash register must see ID, even though I'm older than his grandmother. It's the main reason I refuse to buy beer at a grocery store.

This is still kind of new to us in Pennsylvania. For the last 80 years (since Prohibition ended) we have purchased wine and hard liquor at the PA state stores - where I've never been asked to show ID. We've purchased beer at beer distributors - where I haven't been carded for over 30 years. Now that beer and wine can be purchased in retail grocery stores they're complete assholes about demanding to see ID. No thanks, I don't need it that bad.

The situation you encountered at the Safeway was probably not racially motivated. They are probably assholes to everyone. I believe that your treatment at Walmart was racially motivated however. Those old guys at the door are terrible, and they have no recollection of who the regular customers are. That shit needs to end.

[Queen of the Iceni]

98. But I wasnt purchasing alcohol. I wasnt even at the check-out. I was sitting down by

the lottery machines at the front of the store.

[FakeNoose]

99. Then yes, it was rude and inexcusable

Sometimes I wonder about the training these people get when they're hired at the grocery stores.

[Honeycombe8]

144. Someone was telling me recently that the store checked the IDs of everyone w/the one who was buying

the booze. She was really angry about it because it was ridiculous and she was in a hurry, and didn't know if she had her license, since she wasn't driving, etc. It's a law here in my state, someone said, to do that, because of all the instances that a group of underage people come in to buy booze, and only one of them is of age, so only one of them buys it...for them all to drink it. (The cashier obviously knew you were with your son.)

The law doesn't make a distinction about the ages, someone told me.

So that may be why it was that way in your state. Just a guess. I'd never heard of that law before.

[EffieBlack]

96. These are all such thought-provoking stories

I haven't commented much because I'm trying to stay out of the way. But I'm reading them and thinking about them - and I'm sure lots of others are, too.

I'm really glad to see people sharing their stories and hope more people will join in the discussion.

[sheshe2]

100. Effie, I was asked to post this on your thread...

This is from 1StrongBlackMan:

recommended reading: www.amazon.com/Rage-Privileged-Class-Middle-Class-America/dp/0060925949

I read the book several years ago, and can attest that I have experienced 3 of the experiences highlighted: 1) (like Effie's account) Being challenged as not supposed to be there; 2) Being mistaken for a valet; 3) and (most painfully) having to explain to my daughter why she was the only member of her class not invited to the party.

.........................

Thank you for your OP, Effie.

[NurseJackie]

111. I miss 1SBM ... he was a gem. Clever, witty...

... he didn't suffer fools lightly, and much smarter than others were willing to give him credit for.

[sheshe2]

112. I miss him here, Jackie.

Still see him around though.

[7962]

120. Why did he leave?

One thing I remember about him was even if he didnt agree with you, he disagreed with respect. A lot of folks here dont have that quality. A lot of folks EVERYWHERE dont have that quality

[Brother Buzz]

126. He was alert stalked right into 'Flagged for Review'

He didn't suffer fools lightly, and yes, he was respectful for the most part, but fools like to press buttons and the odds caught up with him.

[NurseJackie]

128. Experience and observation tells me that it's safer to not publicly discuss such things...

... and I'll just leave it at that for obvious reasons.

[EffieBlack]

130. He was constantly targeted, hounded and alerted on

[7962]

137. The new alert system sucks bigly. Guess he got caught up in it. Probably unfairly.

You get no info at all on how your vote was, you get no info on a vote AGAINST you, if you appeal an alert you never get ANY response from Admins. And there are people who will alert your post just because YOU made it.
The only GOOD thing about it is that you dont see the name of who the alert is on. Although you can still find out if you really want to.

But I still find it tough to believe he said anything worth being banned for. We had disagreements on a few occasions. And several back and forth posts on those disagreements. But if I had ever alerted on him it would've showed me to be a petty SOB because he never insulted me. But its easy to "insult" a lot of folks here.

He ought to just sign up under a new screen name and jump back into it. I could tell he was a pretty damn smart dude.

[LisaM]

101. Can I tell a story from the opposite point of view? I'm white, and used to go with my black friend

to basketball games (we're both female and she is quite tiny). The first time we went, I, with a loose coat with large pockets, was not searched at all. She, wearing a very small, tight-fitting jacket was. There was no reason for it; there wasn't anywhere she could have hidden anything, whereas I could probably have carried in two quarts of whiskey or who knows what (I wasn't, just for the record).

Later on, when we were in line to get beer, a man, total stranger to both of us, rushed up to her in line and proceeded to bore us both with a long story of how his family knew George Wallace, but that Wallace "wasn't really a racist" in his personal life, and he wished people would quit judging George Wallace. This was completely out of the blue, by the way. We weren't even making eye contact with the guy.

I was floored by this - just by attending the same event, we had to experience being treated quite differently by the people around us, and I'm telling you, that has got to be a stressful way to live. And this happened in what's considered a liberal - albeit white - city.

[smirkymonkey]

103. Thank you for this op, it is very enlightening.

I grew up in a lily white small village in upstate NY and went to college at a small liberal arts school that was probably about 98% white. I never learned to be racist because there was never anyone around to be racist toward, so I didn't grow up with hate and I thought that was enough. After college, I have only lived in large, multi-cultural, liberal cities and felt quite comfortable mixing with people of all races however, it took me a long time to become aware of my ignorance about racism.

A lot of it was just listening to people and being open and a lot of it was going to a very progressive graduate school in San Francisco that really challenged us constantly on recognizing our white privilege. I am sure there is still a lot that I have to learn, but I have come a long way in just being aware of how much racism there still is and how systemic it is. I think it's important to hear people's stories so that we can become more aware of just how prevalent racism is even today. So many white people actually think that it's not a problem anymore.

[heaven05]

106. I am a mixed race

Last edited Mon Apr 23, 2018, 10:45 AM - Edit history (2)

Man of 70 years old. I am African, German and Spanish born in or around Munich, Germany to a German mother and AA/Spanish father, a captain in the Army. His mother, a Cuban woman my grandfather met as a soldier in one of the "immune regiments" so called during the Cuban incursion called the Spanish-American War was able to marry and bring back to America. Interesting how these regiments were named "immunes". 9th-10th Cavalry, 24th 25th Infantry.

Ours was a military family going back to before the 'Buffalo soldier' and the S.W. Indian Campaigns. It is said that our family involvement in american fight for freedom from Britain and dominance against the First American nations went back to the Boston Massacre. That a relative of our lineage was part of the Crispus Attucks crowd. Was involved in the Revolutionary War, we had a service member escape the Fort Pillow Massacre 1864, in which confederate soldiers under the command of Nathan Bedford Forest MASSACRED THE UNION SOLDIERS that were mostly freed American slaves who had joined the northern blue army. Forest was the same post war white instrumental in forming the white scourge called the KKK.

Most FREE slaves who joined the Army figured it was a way to be seen as equals to the white man and that they would gain equality in the American system by fighting for it. Naw! Didn't work. AA still fighting for equality in a country that is systemically and institutionally racist. More later....I do get tired of looking at the contribution, in blood, that AA shed for an ungrateful nation of racist people.

Soldiers in 1st WW, 2nd WW, Korean Conflict and Vietnam

Okay with all that said under the ameriKKKan aparthate system, I am classified as black, I prefer mixed race. I am brown skinned. Overt racism has affected me many times. I had to use food stamps at one low time in my life. White persons in line with the same booklet, never asked for I.D. Me? Yes. I never complained. So I am ashamed no one learned anything. My sister very light skinned, always picked on in H.S. I had to come to her defense many times as she did me. Always someone in the office of the schools we attended would find out we were born in Germany and it would get out in general population. '"German Brown Baby" "mixed n*****s" we faced. My caregiver that raised me and my sister, my fathers american wife, my german mother did not keep me, always told us to shut up when my sister and I tried to raise the subject. My caregiver grew up in 20's, 30's Memphis, Tenn.

So we just took it, at school and any other place we went, which were not to many places together, as my sister, who was a year older and a year ahead in schooling could as many here recounted, pass for white. And the looks of absolute hate we received in public hurt us badly as we did not understand or get a proper explanation of why people hated us so.

Both my sister and I got our asses kicked many times on the way home and to H.S. school. When we lived on Army bases, my father was a career man, we fared a little better but someone would always make fun of us together. The public H.S. she and I attended for 3 years, after my father retired from the army and got into government work, was the worst. We did not have buses and yes, we had two miles to walk. We tried different routes, didn't make a difference. As we got older, us together caused much anger and hate. She cried a lot. I cried some, but internalized a lot of my anger. I once hit a white soldier in my unit that called me a n***** so hard that I broke his jaw and caused serious damage to his face. I just hit him once. The anger shocked me. The drill corporal took me aside soon after the incident and asked me one question, well actually two couched in one line, "why did you hit him and what did you hit him with"? I told him what he called me and with my fist. He said, "I don't want to hear anymore and get out here". Never got in trouble. The guy I hit was a troublemaker in our company. No one shed a tear for him. I lot of the other soldiers were glad to see him gone.

So anyway my sister cried a lot and given that our caregiver, my father's wife, did nothing to make us feel better we grew up with serious self-esteem/shame problems. Took me many years to like myself. My sister, she got with losers. One who finally killed her and committed suicide.

AmeriKKKan racism causes a lot more damage to people than is recognized. more later.

[azureblue]

107. this still makes me angry

Last edited Sat Apr 21, 2018, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm white. Well, half Sicilian. And a musician. I had just finished playing a night of great jazz, with my friend, He's a stellar guitar player who is black. Master's degree in music, teacher, composer, too. And his name was on the venue's sign as the headliner, like in 2 feet tall letters.

We carpooled to the gig. Great show and a great audience. Afterwards, we were leaving, but the club owner wants to chat with me for a second, so friend says he's going to step outside and smoke a cig in the meantime. Cool, then. Maybe ten minutes later, I leave the building, only to see my friend up against the wall, his guitar case emptied with a custom built guitar thrown on the grass, and two cops yelling at him, for "we know you have drugs, where are they?" The cops are being rough with him, pushing him, cursing at him, yanking his pants down, when I walk up and ask what is going on. The cops give me this BS story about how they saw him walking down the street to deliver drugs, and I tell them you are lying - he just finished playing here and that is his name on the sign right above your heads. The cops say to me, "shut the F up, this is none of your business, and we will take both of you to jail right now." Then they tell me, that I must be holding the drugs, then, and start after me. Now I'm up against the wall, but the clubowner, who happens to be Italian, comes out, to see what is up - I guess somebody told him the cops were outside. He blows his stack. He's yelling at the cops, what the F are you doing, get away from him (my friend), telling the cops this guy just played here at my club, and calling both cops by name, telling the to get off his property right now, and he is going to report them. He is seriously angry. One cop starts after the club owner, but the other cop, who knows that the Club owner has some serious weight at city hall, pulls him back. They both don't say a word back, and they got into their car and drove off. Club owner is apologizing to my friend, asking him what can he do to make it up, etc. My friend is pulling his pants up, and he says, and this got engraved into my memory," no man, it's OK. This happens all the time.". A black man, highly educated and talented. Carrying a $5000 guitar, wearing a tailored three piece suit. That I have known and played music with for 8 years, and was a great friend, seeing him treated like some piece of trash by cops, right in front of me. On the way home, I asked him if he was OK, and he said this: "Welcome to my world. I still have to deal with this shit almost every day. But let it go, ok? And thanks for stepping up." And we never spoke of it again.

[calimary]

113. I love that you did this, EffieBlack.

Many many thanks!

Such amazing, bewildering, and illuminating stories. So much we can all learn from each other!

[Iggo]

114. I'm half-white and I look white. My stories are about white privilege. (Bear with me.)

But that's white privilege from a certain vantage point.

So, I have a very dark brown Dad and a very white Mom.

My little brother has the same brown Dad and the same white Mom. Unlike me, he looks way more like Dad than Mom.

He's the one with all the being-treated-like-shit-for-being-brown stories, and they're his to tell.

But I've been there on more than one occasion when my white privilege episodes bumped up against his brown-people-getting-fucked-over episodes.

Real Short Example: My brother and I are drinking in the park at night. Cops roll up on us, point at me and say, "Take a walk."

See? Real short.

Anyway, I know that's not the kind of story you asked for. I'm just saying even though I don't know what it's like, I have quite literally been there.

[lunatica]

115. My experience is a bit backasswards to others

Racism towards others by people who look like me. I don’t think white people like me speak up enough against racial slurs. Or about them for that matter. It’s always been offensive to me that white strangers just blithely assume I’m as much of a mouth foaming racist as they are. I can’t tell you how many times a hateful white person sidled up to me and with their hand hiding their mouth they would say a disgusting racist slur. Always when There was a black or brown person in the vicinity. People who were complete strangers would do this.

These slurs are so full of hate that when I was younger I was too fearful to say anything in response but when I became a teenager in the 60s our culture, our age group recoiled from this and I was able to find my courage to fight back. I’m glad I did find a way of countering such irrational fear. I can’t be even a small part of that, no matter what race or ethnicity is being smeared. I also know that speaking out has an impact, because we all have to fight against racism, not just the victims, and if you speak out against people of your own race it has an impact that can be perceived as lessening the fear factor.

Of course misogyny has walked hand in hand with with us and is even making a strong comeback in the last few years, much to my dismay and surprised. But I do have a suggestion of a small thing that can possibly make a huge impact. It is that starting in High School, when teenagers are becoming free thinking beings in full rebellion they should be required to take American history courses which are given from the point of view of every racial and ethnic background. I was lucky enough to have taken women’s American history in college. It was an amazing course which taught me things I would never had known otherwise.

[EffieBlack]

123. That's a great suggestion!

Are you in any position to propose a plan for introduce a course into your local school's curriculum? Perhaps you could get a diverse group of parents and educators together to put something together to present to the school board?

[lunatica]

124. Unfortunately I am not in a good position

I just moved to New Mexico within the last 3 weeks. I’m so new that I literally know only 2 people who aren’t even in the state right now. I’m house sitting for them. I will buy a place but I don’t even know which city or town I’ll live in.

Thanks for starting this OP. With your influence and draw on DU maybe you can start a thread about thoughts on how to actively deal with racism.

[EffieBlack]

125. You seem to be a very good writer. Perhaps you could write an op-ed?

[lunatica]

129. I will definitely continue to speak out

and come up with solutions. I’ve always known that more important than naming a problem is to seek solutions at the same time. I do that in every aspect of my life. I was a union member at work and put my words into actions all the time. In time it was expected of me to speak up. The workers relied on me to speak for them, and the employers respected me enough to actually integrate my suggestions. It worked pretty well, but like every worthwhile endeavor it had to be kept up and carefully kept alive.

I retired this year so I’m in a whole new phase of life. Finding my new feet so to speak. But I can’t imagine I’ve changed. I might even have the advantage of being taken for a sage cantankerous old woman who is known for cutting through the Gordian knot Lickety split! There are worse things.

[7962]

117. I think you should've told him it was YOUR space & who you were.

It would have immediately made him look like a fool & taught him a lesson without the confrontation aspect. And you still could have called his boss too!

[EffieBlack]

119. The point of telling our stories is not to invite suggestions for what we "should" have done

in response to instances of bias and racism, but to help others better understand our perspectives based on our experiences.

[catrose]

122. White supremacists would love to have my DNA

All white but for 3% Native American & 3% Sephardic Jewish.

But born & raised in the South. Just a couple of stories: Senior trip in Destin, FL for our Catholic girls' school, very progressive & activist. (Yes, the Catholic Church used to be like that.) The discussion was dinner, and the black girls were wondering if they could go to a certain diner. One of the white girls gave them directions & quoted menu & prices before slithering out of the room as she understood that they were wondering if they'd be allowed in, and that such a consideration had never crossed our little white minds.

Fast forward to 2008, when I'm acting as some kind of observer for Democrats at the election. I forget what the post was called, but my job was to ask people coming out of the polls if they'd had problems voting. I was dressed in Sarah Palin drag: red jacket, black skirt, brown hair done up, wide glasses (seemed safer in the Deep South). Nobody has any problem until about 10 minutes until 7 pm (closing time). A young black woman came out, furious because they wouldn't let her vote. She'd moved recently but hadn't received a new voting card identifying her precinct. So she printed her information from the county voter rolls and brought every form of ID and address confirmation she could think of, including her marriage license. I asked if they'd offered a provisional ballot. They hadn't done that, just told her to drive across town to her old precinct and vote there (in 10 minutes). So I went inside with her and said to the judges, "This lady needs a provisional ballot." "Of course," they said, and sat right down with her. I watched from across the room as she filled it out and mused over a society where I can ask for what I want & get it without a murmur and someone who lives a few blocks from me but has a different skin color has to fight for what is legally hers. This isn't the country I learned about in my history & civics classes.

[cp]

127. Thank you

Thank you, EffieBlack, for opening this conversation.
Thank you all for your stories. I've read every one.
Thank you.

[TCJ70]

131. Why is it easier to assume racism...

...when it could also just as easily be he didn’t know who you were and saw you park in a reserved space? If you’re going to have an example, at least have one with a confirmed racial bias element.

You could say he wouldn’t do that to a white person, but you don’t know that...unless there’s more to the story.

I’ll add an example to your thread, though:

I worked at a community center on the south side of Chicago for awhile and we used to have some young adult guys come over from a neighboring area to play basketball. They were all PoC’s and our area was quite white. One evening as they were leaving they had a flat tire so they pulled over in front of a house across the street and all 5 of them got out of the car to handle it, because that’s what you do when you’re all 19-20 and have a flat tire...lol

The owner of the house came out and started yelling at them to get out of here, get away from his house, or he was going to call the police. Unbeknownst to him, my white co-worker had already come outside and was helping them out. He popped his head up and said, “Hey, they have a flat tire and no tools. How about instead of calling the police you get us a tire iron so we can fix it.” He didn’t know what to say now that my co-worker was there so he got the tire iron.

While they were changing the tire the police rolled up and asked if there was a problem. The home owner said no and the police left. He had already called the police before coming out to yell at the guys. I don’t know for sure, but things could have gone very differently if my co-worker hadn’t been there.

[EffieBlack]

133. You are not following directions

Again, the point of this thread is to invite people to share their experiences with racism. It is not an invitation to come in and challenge our perceptions and perspectives or to define for us what us and is not racist behavior - or, as you put it, limit our storied to examples of "confirmed racial bias element" (whatever the hell THAT is).

The fact that you find it easier to assume - and feel perfectly entitled to instruct me that I should also have assumed - that this must have been anything other than racism to the point that you speculate about what innocent motives drove him, is one of the primary reasons I created what is supposed to be a safe space for people to share their experiences and for others, hopefully, to learn from them.

That said, thanks for sharing your story. It's very interesting and instructive.

[TCJ70]

135. Im just trying to understand the racism you see in it

Did it ever come out that his actions were based on your race? I didn’t tell you how you should interpret anything nor did I say what it must be.

Is there more to the story?

[tonedevil]

138. Do you always hear hoof beats...

and assume they are zebras? Is hobbyist parking enforcer a regular thing in your circles? Most people don't make a habit of policing parking spaces they neither own nor know the owner of. What might have set off the parking lot avenger? The one explanation that is the most prevalent in US society is the one you need more proof of. You are couching it in a question, but you are really explaining something you can't personally experience to someone who lives with it everyday.

[TCJ70]

139. Accusations of racism are pretty serious...

...and it’s a very ugly characteristic to have to apply to someone. It’s warranted sometimes...like the Starbucks garbage or the tire changing experience. This parking lot situation? Not so clear cut.

It’s funny how you’re asking me about my assumptions when the OP made a pretty big one about the guy. Do I think the guy acted appropriately? Seems like a busybody to me. Didn’t need to be so pushy about it for sure. Maybe race was a factor but without more information it seems like a stretch to me.

[tonedevil]

141. You need look no farther...

than post #140 where EffieBlack writes with the understanding of someone who experiences it everyday. Not living that I won't presume to explain when such a perfect example is right there.
You might consider the distinct possibility you need to listen and not try to explain. In this case you have stumbled into a conversation with specific ground rules and yet you feel privileged to ignore those rules. You might ask yourself why you feel so entitled.

[EffieBlack]

140. The reason I - and most other POC on this board - have no doubt that it was racism

has everything to do with context and patterns. While someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with this might not see it, you can't view this in a vacuum.

One of the reasons this resonates with us is that it's not isolated - IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME POC. We are constantly being assumed to not supposed to be in whatever space we're occupying and if we're there, we're either there in a much more inferior capacity - often in a role where we're supposed to be serving white people. And to make matters worse, all manner of white people, whatever their status in relation to us, feel perfectly entitled to essentially demand to see our papers or to call the police on us for being exactly where we have every right to be.

So, the reason I know his motives were not innocent is because I've encountered bigots and I've encountered innocents and my antenna and spidey sense have been honed to near perfection. I know the difference and most people in my position do, too.

And even if I'm wrong, I don't owe all white people the benefit of the doubt. Yes, being wrongly accused of being a racist is not a good thing. But you know what else isn't a good thing? Being subjected to racism day in and day out. You know what else sucks? Being subjected to racism day in and day out and having well-meaning white people circle the wagons and fall all over themselves making excuses for racists and expecting ME to bend over backwards to make sure I don't offend or misjudge any white person who feels entitled to accost an African American woman who was parking in her own damned parking space when his job had absolutely nothing to do with and wasn't in any way impacted by who parked in that space and, frankly, it wasn't any of his damned business who parked where - especially since he was parking in one of MY spaces that I had allowed his department to use.

Maybe if this was the only time this ever happened to me, I'd let it slide. But after a lifetime of being expected to explain what I was doing where I was - of being followed in stores by clerks who make less in a year than I do a month, so I'm not even thinking about trying to steal anything from their effing store, of having a prosecutor assume that I was the wife of a black 65-year-old criminal defendant instead of the 30-year old attorney for the white corporate client who was pressing the charges against him, that I was an intruder stealing supplies from a law firm instead of an associate taking work home, of watching my mother being spoken to like an ignorant child because someone thought she was a maid rather than the homeowner, of watching white people over and over tell my distinguished father to retrieve their car, get them a drink, or hail them a cab, or demand to know who he is driving (because a black man driving Mercedes MUST be a chauffeur) and countless other indignities - I know the patterns and signs.

And I also know that it's consistently done in pleasant tones in a passive aggressive way, without invoking racist epithets, thereby providing cover and an opportunity to invoke a "Who? Me?!" cloak of victimization.

So, yes, I know EXACTLY what it was.

[heaven05]

153. it's worse

when on the receiving end of racism, that happens continually, constantly and hatefully. "Confirmed racial bias element". Really??????????? That's some bullshit diversion/distraction if I ever heard it. jeez

[TCJ70]

154. Why?

The OP is basing their claim of racist treatment on nothing but their own claim of having a well-honed racism sensor. If you're going to claim someone did something based on race, you should have evidence of that.

For example, the home owner in my story completely changed his attitude once a white person was present with the guys changing their tire. That's pretty blatant. The Starbucks folks who weren't the only non-paying customers in the store getting the cops called on them. That's pretty blatant.

In this parking garage incident, we have nothing to compare this guys actions with in regards to people of different races.

[heaven05]

155. Understand this

constantly, continually and hatefully. What can't you understand about the ability to pick up on racial hate, IF it is happening all the time? Blatantly overt vs not overt, but knowing a person is dealing hatefully with you because of your skin color. You don't want to see it. That's fine. A lot of people are the same way in this country. That's why racist hate continues at levels today as it was in the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and into this 21st century. You have a good one now you heah jeez....

[pandr32]

132. I am in a mixed marriage

My husband (Hispanic/Native American) and I were flying to Columbia S.C. for our daughter's graduation from boot camp and were super-excited to see her. I was next to my husband in the aisle seat. A stewardess came and whispered in my ear that there was an open seat a few rows back--that she would be happy to move me there so I could be more comfortable. I glanced back to see where this seat was (next to an older white lady) and then I told the stewardess "No thank you--I would rather sit next to my husband" and she sped off like a bullet. She never so much as looked in our direction after that.

[LenaBaby61]

134. Wish I could share ....

But my post would probably be removed (As several have been) IF I were to talk about or describe the racism my family has faced and been through. We are African-American and Native-American (Mother African-American. Father Native-American. My late Mother would be nearing 100 years old and my late Father would be 100 years old if they were alive today.

I thank you for making this thread OP

[Wawannabe]

136. My father was a racist

Hard core.
He grew up in the south before the Civil Rights Movement. He was taught this as a family value. It is not an excuse but a fact. He tried to pass along his racism to his children. He was against all persons that were not white. Spics, gooks, redskins and N*****s were the only words he used to describe the person. His Army stint did not help. The top brass at that time were the same. It was common and accepted. Again no excuse but it is a fact.

I began life as racist. I know this to be true. I gained experinces that helped me to understand that every person is different and should be treated individually. Profiling is wrong.

My example:
I look and dress more like a hippy and have been profiled as such. This is just one occasion.
I was stopped on the interstate in OK (I’m white) because of my car, my braid and a bumper sticker. I was searched and questioned about being a mule for drugs. The same questions were asked in three or four different ways to try to trip me up. No apologies were offered to me after the officers determined that I was in fact just traveling home from a vacation to the Grand Canyon.

Profiling is what the OP experienced. Be it for skin color or for being female or for NOT being a white male who the profiler expected to be parking in that spot.

The black men in Starbucks were profiled. It is unfortunately accepted, used and abused in police work.

Our country has a terrible history of labeling people. We should stop.

[caraher]

142. Thanks to those who shared, and to those who didn't, I understand

I've frequently heard from people of color how exhausting and even harmful it can be to keep educating us white people. When I lived in small town Indiana an African American colleague mentioned denial of service as a routine occurrence there. I asked him what that looks like, and he gave me some examples (sometimes stuff as petty as not handing back change but dropping it on the counter).

Not long afterward I was in the grocery store. At the far end of the aisle was an African American woman, maybe in her mid-50s, and in the middle of the same aisle was a white male employee of a similar age, stocking shelves. She was having trouble finding what she was looking for and called out to the employee, politely and clearly, "Excuse me, could you help me find something?" I heard her despite being twice as far away. She asked again, the same way; she was being completely ignored. So I said, not quite as loudly but with a voice attached to a white male 50-year-old body, "Excuse me?" He turned toward me; "Yes?" I pointed behind him. "That lady there needs help." He just stared at me, with a kind of freaky tense grin on his face. "Yes?"

I walked him down to where she was and saw to it that she found what she was looking for. Only later did someone tell me I also should have reported this to the store manager.

These things are visible once you know to look for them

[EffieBlack]

143. Kick

[gollygee]

145. Here's something that just happened this week in Grosse Pointe MI

Copied from Steve Neavling's Facebook page (and tons of people have shared this - as he intended). There are photos on the Facebook page and the two men do not look alike. They're both overweight black men of about the same age. That's it.

Hi friends, I am furious. Remember the two black men who were recently arrested at a Starbucks for politely waiting for another friend to arrive before ordering coffee? A manager just assumed they were loitering, never talked to them and called police. The two men were arrested and hauled off – for doing what many white people do everyday by getting the benefit of the doubt. But on Thursday in Detroit. something far worse went down. Just after incident, witnesses told me a respected black businessman, longtime Grosse Pointe resident and strength coach at three schools, was arrested by a Grosse Pointe SWAT team with guns drawn at his gym near the border of Detroit and GP – an area usually flooded with children. Thing is, police have the wrong man – they know it and won't release him from jail. A "tipster" told police that the business owner looked identical to a surveillance photo of a man who robbed a Grosse Point bank. The photos are clearly of two different people. But to make sure, I showed the photos to five people who know the victim, and all said the same thing: Police have the wrong man. The pictures show two clearly different people. Nevertheless, the all-white police department apparently can't tell one black man from another. I am going to be reporting this live from my house in a few minutes. The video will be live on 910am Superstation's Facebook. Have questions or comments? I will be able to respond.

[McCamy Taylor]

152. When I Was Five and We Drove Through Birmingham, Alabama

I crouched down in my seat so that no one would see that there was a child in the car. That was because I knew that in Birmingham they did this



to kids. And I was a kid.

[cyclonefence]

156. This broke my heart

An article written by a young black man who said that to try to reassure the white women standing with him on the subway platform he had taken to whistling "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik." Most of the time, they moved away anyway.

[curious_citizen]

157. DU of color discussing living while black

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I will give several nominally ridiculous recounting of my living while black and being called out negatively for it. I am a 60 yr old professional black male. I have been fortunate enough to have traveled extensively during my career.
1. On my second day at a college in milwaukee, wi, another freshman and I decided to ride our bikes around the neighborhood to get a lay of the land. Our campus was on the east side of town near Knapp street of Laverne and Shirley fame. We ride and have a great time, except the ride/walk back up the hill from the lake. Anyway we get to literally the front of our dorm and a police car fires up his siren right behind us. He gets out and proceeds to ask us for our bicycle licenses. Telling us we needed to have our bikes registered to ride them. Of course we called bs, however he proceeded to write us tickets for riding our bikes. He asked for our names and I proceeded to give him the main character from the movie Shaft's name (Richard Roundtree) and my friend gave him some other fictitious character as well. We were really trying to figure out why this guy was giving us tickets. Later on we realized that the only black persons ,other than the help,on that side of town, were Milwaukee Bucks basketball players, Kareem Jabar being one at the time. Those guys didn't ride bikes around town. Milwaukee actually never improved relative to black people, they just stopped my car instead of my bike, that is why I no longer live there. I played basketball regularly with a young man that was killed by the MPD for being black and walking down the street near where a white Marquette coed was accosted. That was the first time I marched in protest of police brutality.
2. I am traveling with coworkers to a conference in Anaheim, Ca. We signed up late so all the rooms are booked for the medium to high end hotels so we ended up in a best western. We go the check in and I just happen to be the last of the 3 or 4 of us that were staying there. The desk attendant asks to see and copy my drivers license. Now all of the other coworkers swiped their corporate AMEX cards and got their keys, but for some reason this fool wants more from me. I make a big stink as well as my co workers. The attendant and manager remain firm in their need to keep a copy of my DL. So rather than give them money I just go stay at a Marriott about an hour away for the same price and I got points. I have not stayed in a BW since then.
3. I'm in New Orleans on a vacation with my mom and sister. Its been a hot day so I go for a swim in the pool and they join me with drinks. There are about 15 or so white teens in the pool at the other end. I am just trying to relax and cool off so I swim a couple laps then get out and talk with my mom. I do this a couple of times and my sister notices that each time I get in they get out. So to test the theory, I wait until they are heavily playing whatever they are playing, get in, and just do a couple of cross laps. They get out each time I get in. My sister and I turn it into a game for about 5 or 6 times. Then we get bored. But it wasn't the first time of swimming while black. Sometime in the 70s I was visiting some friends in west nowhere colorado. There was one public pool for the whole town. I was the only black teen in the area and we decided to go swimming. In order to get into the deep end the test was two laps of the pool for everyone but me. I had to do 5. I did them but was so tired I was ready to go after that. But I made sure that for the time I was out there that I went swimming in the deep end every day.
4. Living just outside of Youngstown OH, in a burb that someone interviewed on tv stated they had not seen racism there in the 50 years they lived there around the time of the 2016 elections. What a lie. But anyway, my son was in Kindergarten and since it was just him and I we used to have reading and math sessions as well as I taught him rudimentary chess. He was the only black kid in the school system at the time and he was doing well in class. He just didn't have many friends at school. We would go to discovery zone and he would see kids from his class and they were usually at a party for someone. He would play with them but never get invited to a party. So fast forward we get near to the end of the school year and the teacher suggests that he should redo the school year because he isn't socializing well. I ask if she allows the kids to pass out party invites, she says yes. I then ask if she has ever seen him receive an invite. She stammers and then says no. So the question is how is he not socializing, he plays with the kids but they don't invite him to things. Anyway she pissed me off and I contacted a headhunter and left just before school ended.
My son, fiance, and myself were walking in a park not too far from our apartment, tossing a ball or something. All of a sudden we see this rapid movement at least a hundred yards away from us. Some white woman was running to a park bench towards her purse and fell on her face trying to get there before we did. We hadn't noticed her, her purse, or for that matter the park bench. My son laughed and I let him because she had determined that a family playing while black was a threat.
I didn't stay too far from a mall. I would get up at 6am and run around the mall parking lot, well run, pant, walk, run. But anyway after a couple of months a state trooper decided to follow me, not close but at lease a hundred yards back. I noticed him but didn't confront him. This went on for several days. So I shifted to running around my neighborhood and no problem. After a couple of weeks I went back to the parking lot, primarily because it was well lit, and as a black guy I felt more comfortable. The trooper came back and just parked his car in the middle of the lot and watched me. It was annoying but after a while I just joined a gym. No need to give him some reason for jerkiness. Jogging while black
My coworkers would invite me to go to strip clubs on occasion. One of the most ridiculous things that occurred was the stripper that would not stroll on the side of the stage where the dark guy was. We stopped at this place and watched the women perform walking on the stage, then around the bar to the other side. They would get their tips and somebody else would do the same thing. Then this one stripper would walk on the other side and return, as a coworker noticed, every time I was with them she never made it to our side. So we had an asian guy come with us a few weeks later. He sat with some folks on one side while I sat on the other side. She didn't come out while we were there but as soon as we left she came out. Her loss. Watching strippers while black
5. Upstate NY, moved to a burb not too far from my job. Really nice area, schools are good, people are ok. I drive over to another burb to visit a friend and since I'm out that way I call another friend who lives near by to see if we can stop by this bar he has been raving about to catch a game. So we decide to meet. I have find the place but have a hard time finding some place to park. While I am looking a cop flashes me because I have a light out in the back. Ok so he asks me to step out so he can show me. In my mind I know its on the right or left side and all he had to do was tell me. But I get out and as I'm getting out the cop draws on me. I'm about 6'2 and he barely made the height requirement. So now I'm pissed, this guy is gonna shoot me about a tail light. I raise my hands and ask him to lower his weapon. He does but I'm enraged at this point. He says he was sorry, he didn't expect me to be that tall. WTF??. I looked at the taillight and left. I made noise but nothing happened with local PD. I just don't try to drive thru that town.
Another time another burb with my sons on a sunday on our way to listen to a friend of mine preach at his church. A cop sees us and does a u turn and flashes me. I pull over and he says I have light out in the back. Its was a buick park avenue with a light bar and about 8 lamps. So there was no actual violation but he wanted to see why we were in town early on sunday morning with our suits on. I accepted the ticket and he was still jabbering on until my friend, the pastor stopped to ask what the problem was. I had to go to court to get the ticket canceled
Go camping mid state at a private campground we usually passed' We were on our way to drop off my son and couple of things with my parents in another state. It was sort of impromptu so we didnt have firewood and some other stuff. We setup our site and left to get the stuff we needed. When we came back, the big bus/camper that was in the from of the campground was now partially covered with a confederate flag. The kids and adults all had on tshirts with some confederate or nazi insignia on it. Now mind you we were just stopping to have a relaxing fire, cook some marshmallows, and spend time with our son before he was away for a few weeks. We had no interaction with these people or their kids. So now my wife wants to take down our camp and leave. She calms down slightly when she realizes that we were taking 2 of my dad's pistols back to him and they were in a box in the truck. So we spent the night with loaded weapons and not sleeping because we had no idea of what these idiots were up to. Nothing happened, but I now only camp at state parks and always have a weapon of some sort. It takes away the serenity of camping for me but I enjoy the change of environment.
I could share adinfinitem however I will cap it to say that in several of these burbs my wife and I used to have people clutch their children as we walked pass so often that we would assumed that our expressions suggested that we ate white flesh.

[heaven05]

158. wow

pure racist ameriKKKana. Disgusting really.

[GaryCnf]

159. This was an important post

I had a recent pm exchange with another DU member which caused me to question whether I had become, or, more accurately, whether I remained, a purist of the worst sorts regarding both oppression and liberation. After reading some suggested writings from people who I fancied in my own mind to be my predecessors, it became obvious to me that I had. I choose not to be any longer.

These voices you've collected, whether they describe untoward looks or outright violence, describe the reality that none of us are free, no matter what we've accomplished. None of them are trivial. What's more important, and what I was denying, is that we are all trying to fight back in the best way we think we can and none of us (and yes, I mean me) accomplish anything other than hurt us all when we (and yes, I mean I) set up litmus tests for whether we are "really" joined in the same struggle.

We are

And what has been done in these response shows how.

K&R

[LittleGirl]

160. Its my sister

We have different fathers, hers white, mine 100% first born Italian.
She is blond, blue eyed, I am brown eyes, hair and skin.

We never got along. You know when you have a conversation and something is said and time stops. I have no idea how this topic came up but she was telling me about the shelter behind her employers building and how at daylight everyone must leave the shelter. They might wander over to her building and since she sat at the entrance which was locked , she saw it all. She said she would push the intercom button to yell at the shelter residents to get away from the door. I was horrified that she would do that. She said, rather matter of fact, “I don’t like black people.”

My mother was born and raised in the south and is as liberal as they come so we weren’t taught this at home. I was mortified. My brother believes that affirmative action prevented him from a job in the 80s and I didn’t understand until he started to listen to Rush and watch Fox News everyday.

I fell in love with my spouse who is Asian Indian, maybe just to disown them. I don’t miss them.