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BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:25 AM Apr 2018

HuffPo: White Americans Say The Starbucks Arrests Were An Isolated Incident.

Black Americans Say They Were Part Of A Pattern.

04/23/2018 12:48 pm ET Updated 15 hours ago

White Americans Say The Starbucks Arrests Were An Isolated Incident. Black Americans Say They Were Part Of A Pattern.

By Ariel Edwards-Levy

White Americans who’ve been following the arrest of two black men at a Philadelphia Starbucks are most likely to think the story represents an isolated occurrence, according to a new HuffPost/YouGov survey. Black Americans see it as part of a pattern.

Among those who’d heard at least a little about the arrests ― the vast majority of those surveyed ― 48 percent of white Americans said it was an isolated incident, a third that it was emblematic of a broader pattern in how society as a whole treats black people, and 6 percent that it was a reflection of a broader pattern in the way Starbucks treats black people.

A 57 percent majority of black Americans, by contrast, saw the controversy as rooted in broader societal problems, with 19 percent considering it primarily an indictment of Starbucks, and just a tenth believing it was an isolated incident.

<...>

Most Americans, regardless of race, say they don’t often worry about being perceived as doing something wrong while out at a restaurant or store. But white Americans are 24 points likelier than black Americans to say they don’t worry about being suspected of wrongdoing in public, 18 points likelier to say they’d be comfortable using a restroom without buying anything and 26 points likelier to say they’d be comfortable waiting for a friend without making a purchase. The gaps between white and Hispanic Americans on those questions are 15 points, 18 points and 24 points, respectively.



<...>

More at link.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/white-black-americans-starbucks-survey_us_5addf928e4b0b2e81131de51
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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HuffPo: White Americans Say The Starbucks Arrests Were An Isolated Incident. (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 OP
HuffPo: Equal percentages of Whites and Blacks report having been asked to leave a store oberliner Apr 2018 #1
Did you ever consider why that might be? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #5
The fact the the percentage of Hispanics that reported being kicked out was 20% seemed significant oberliner Apr 2018 #7
Remember that "Hispanic" is not a "race" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #10
i can see people being asked to leave if they were speaking another language JI7 Apr 2018 #13
Yup - I posted the infamous example of that right here in Philly in post #12. nt BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #14
The majority of Hispanics in the U.S. are proficient in English. They are still called Hispanic. thesquanderer Apr 2018 #30
It depends on which ethnic group you are talking about BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #35
That is the what the survey used in the OP you posted oberliner Apr 2018 #44
Yes BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #45
Understood oberliner Apr 2018 #48
I agree BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #49
This White American Doesn't say that at all. Cha Apr 2018 #2
Hey Cha! BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #8
Isolated? ashredux Apr 2018 #3
And to underscore that BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #17
Actually, a slight majority of white Americans said the opposite. yardwork Apr 2018 #4
Other than the last question, the answers were fairly equal among races. 7962 Apr 2018 #6
Note they left out that "dirty" term that may be impacting the answers BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #16
Also the percentage who reported being kicked out of stores was the same for Whites and Blacks oberliner Apr 2018 #9
Hispanic is a "language group" as noted in my earlier post to you. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #12
So the fact theres a please on the mountain grammy Apr 2018 #20
That's the problem BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #22
So it was up all during the Obama presidency? mountain grammy Apr 2018 #33
Yes BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #36
Still won't go there. And their sandwiches - meh. GoneOffShore Apr 2018 #21
LOL BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #24
And much better sandwiches. GoneOffShore Apr 2018 #26
My BIL is a Dalessandros fan (which is in Roxborough). nt BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #27
I'm responding to the info contained in your OP oberliner Apr 2018 #43
Hopefully my post #45 clarifies BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #46
Perception of being illegally here? treestar Apr 2018 #40
That pretty much sums it up. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #42
Even if it was isolated Sherman A1 Apr 2018 #11
As food for thought (as I posted in #5) BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #15
of course heaven05 Apr 2018 #18
See this BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #19
Surprised that your link isn't higher up the charts. GoneOffShore Apr 2018 #25
as long as this is ameriKKKa heaven05 Apr 2018 #32
You got that right BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #41
Most White Americans Have No Actual Frame of Reference for Institutionalized Racism dlk Apr 2018 #23
I totally agree. UncleTomsEvilBrother Apr 2018 #29
Not this white American DownriverDem Apr 2018 #28
My town is 0% black erlewyne Apr 2018 #31
How ironic. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #37
As if that makes it ok Fullduplexxx Apr 2018 #34
People with an interest in believing the Starbucks incident to have happened in isolation... Orsino Apr 2018 #38
48% means the headline should not be stated that way treestar Apr 2018 #39
It is BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #47
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
1. HuffPo: Equal percentages of Whites and Blacks report having been asked to leave a store
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:31 AM
Apr 2018

for not making a purchase.

Hispanics, however, report a percentage that is double the number for either Whites or Blacks.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
5. Did you ever consider why that might be?
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:08 AM
Apr 2018

Hint: That Starbucks here in Philly with the issue that made the news is located in a neighborhood within Center City that is only 3% black.



 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
7. The fact the the percentage of Hispanics that reported being kicked out was 20% seemed significant
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:21 AM
Apr 2018

It was double the percentage of White and Black respondents (9 and 10 percent).

What do you think accounts for those results?

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
10. Remember that "Hispanic" is not a "race"
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:27 AM
Apr 2018

it is a language group, with individuals descended from multiple Spanish-speaking countries of multiple "races". So you have "black" Hispanics (e.g., Brazilians) and "white" Hispanics (e.g., Argentinians) and "Asian" Hispanics (e.g., Filipinos).

And as a note, "brown" and "red" is not a "race" either.

This is the convoluted system that the U.S. put in place a long time ago and is why other countries that adopted our racist systems (like South Africa) found it so bizarre that they created a 3rd group "colored" to simplify and implement their versions of oppression.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
13. i can see people being asked to leave if they were speaking another language
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:31 AM
Apr 2018

there are a lot of "speak english" idiots out there and for some reason they get angry if they hear others speaking in another language.

thesquanderer

(11,953 posts)
30. The majority of Hispanics in the U.S. are proficient in English. They are still called Hispanic.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:33 AM
Apr 2018

So saying it is a "language group" isn't entirely accurate. In fact, there are many (especially U.S. born) Hispanics who speak English as well as anyone, they still identify as Hispanic.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
35. It depends on which ethnic group you are talking about
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:21 AM
Apr 2018

and how long they have been here.

In the U.S., the term, does reference members from or descendants of people who lived in mostly Spanish-speaking countries/territories that were former colonies (regardless of "proficiency" in the language), and including descendants of Spain.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
44. That is the what the survey used in the OP you posted
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:53 AM
Apr 2018

I am only responding to the info presented in the article - the survey uses those three categories (White, Black, Hispanic).

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
45. Yes
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 10:56 AM
Apr 2018

but I am giving you a reason for why you may be seeing a differing result, and I think there are several posts in this thread that also suggested this - "language" is a determinant/factor that tends to "negatively" impact "perceptions".

I have seen and experienced this personally when traveling abroad to non-English speaking countries, and believe it or not, when it comes to "Americans", "race" suddenly disappears within or between groups of "Americans", meaning "origin" (U.S.) plus "language" (English) trumps race. Sadly though, some of those countries being visited still manage to hew to the U.S. racist stereotypes.

So the often "not mentioned" but sadly often "thought about" thing here is the "fear" that when one is standing near a group of people speaking in a different language, that they are (negatively) "talking about" the non-speaker of that language. So there may be a "conscious", but probably more often than not, a "subconscious" reaction to that "fear", and that leads to mistreatment.

There is a standard joke that goes like this -

Q: What do you call someone who speaks 3 languages?
A: "Trilingual"

Q: What do you call someone who speaks 2 languages?
A: "Bilingual"

Q: What do you call someone who speaks 1 language?
A: "American"


 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
48. Understood
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 11:20 AM
Apr 2018

I definitely appreciate your insights on this topic.

That being said, I did find it interesting (and alarming) that the survey group who were labeled "Hispanic" - imprecise as that term is - reported such a high percentage of being kicked out of places for not buying anything.

The fact that that group's percentage was double the White group and the Black group seems worth examining, at least.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
49. I agree
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 01:36 PM
Apr 2018

although it might be helpful to see whether this includes "all" Hispanic nationalities (e.g., Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Dominicans, Guatemalans, Panamanians, etc) or just some.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
2. This White American Doesn't say that at all.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 06:31 AM
Apr 2018

Jeesh!

Course I get news on here that m$m doesn't talk about that much I would guess.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
8. Hey Cha!
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:21 AM
Apr 2018

You'll notice that there is a consistent 30+% of whites who know there's a lot of bullshit out there and are willing to speak out about it.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
17. And to underscore that
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:53 AM
Apr 2018

Right after this story came out, a similar incident that took place at a L.A. Starbucks was tweeted out.

It all comes down to whether someone wants to "make some noise" about mistreatment and capture the occasion for broadcast or whether they are of the mind of - "We are not going to support this business that mistreats me so I will only support one that does, and I will dissuade others from coming here by word of mouth".

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
4. Actually, a slight majority of white Americans said the opposite.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:02 AM
Apr 2018

I know that far too many white Americans are oblivious to the racism faced by people of color, but fewer than half said what the headline says.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
6. Other than the last question, the answers were fairly equal among races.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:17 AM
Apr 2018

but when you want s headline, you'll write a headline regardless of the story!

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
9. Also the percentage who reported being kicked out of stores was the same for Whites and Blacks
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:24 AM
Apr 2018

Yet double for Hispanics - which seems to have gone unexamined.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
12. Hispanic is a "language group" as noted in my earlier post to you.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:29 AM
Apr 2018

Also right here in Philly at Geno's Steaks -





Ten years later after it first went up, they finally took the sign down.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
20. So the fact theres a please on the
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:13 AM
Apr 2018

sign makes it ok? I don’t care if it’s the best food in the world, I’d leave and never return if I saw a sign like that.. I know this place is world famous, but I never read about that sign..speaks volumes about their success.
My non English speaking grandparents were Jewish who immigrated from Eastern Europe where “deportation” took on a whole new meaning.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
22. That's the problem
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:18 AM
Apr 2018

Apparently the sign finally came down just before the DNC Convention convened in Philly.

In this case, the restaurant was owned by an Italian family and what doesn't get said here is that when many Italians came here to Philly and settled in South Philly (after the Irish kicked blacks out who were there originally), then they were done in severely by the Irish and others who were here earlier. Yet if you go through parts of South Philly, Italian is still spoken (although many of the families left and moved to the suburbs like Broomall or to South Jersey).

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
33. So it was up all during the Obama presidency?
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:55 AM
Apr 2018

It’s disgusting that such a display of bigotry in a metropolitan city like Philadelphia would stay up for ten years and business thrives.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
36. Yes
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:24 AM
Apr 2018

and the ass got a lot of high fives for having it there too. The issue was taken to our local Human Relations Commission but oddly was turned down IIRC as it may have been considered a "first amendment" issue.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
24. LOL
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:20 AM
Apr 2018

It's almost impossible to even park down there.

Most neighborhoods around the city have plenty of shops that make hoagies and cheesesteaks.

GoneOffShore

(17,309 posts)
26. And much better sandwiches.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:22 AM
Apr 2018

DeNic's in Reading Terminal Market is excellent.
I miss Salumeria which had the best hoagies.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
43. I'm responding to the info contained in your OP
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:52 AM
Apr 2018

They use the categories of White, Black, and Hispanic.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
42. That pretty much sums it up.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:52 AM
Apr 2018

If you consider the cycles that have happened with Hispanics here - a sometimes "love/hate" relationship that was fostered in films and television.

When you look at someone like Desi Arnaz (with Lucille Ball) or Ricardo Montalban or Jose Ferrer, all who became breakouts, they battled and tried to neuter (through their visibility in mass media) the pervasive stereotypes.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
11. Even if it was isolated
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:28 AM
Apr 2018

And I suspect that it was not.

It was still wrong.

I don’t believe that they correct question was asked.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
15. As food for thought (as I posted in #5)
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:38 AM
Apr 2018

Consider the defacto segregation (housing) patterns over many many decades, and that means that you will also tend to have businesses that are similarly segregated.

Step into a business in a "different" neighborhood and you have potential to become a "target". In the case of this particular Starbucks, the neighborhood (which is residential as well as commercial) is only 3% black.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
18. of course
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:00 AM
Apr 2018

most white american believe...lada,lada,lada... most white americans....oohhh never mind...won't do any goodto say another word about white americans or their inherent racism and struggle to hold on to their white privilege and majority population myth...worldwide

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
32. as long as this is ameriKKKa
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:47 AM
Apr 2018

the hits, now increasing because RACIST WA finally have their hitler. He has for the last 2 1/2 years told EVERY WA they can hate any nonwhite openly and they have the dictators green light to do so, without fear of retribution. And the hits WILL increase.

dlk

(11,425 posts)
23. Most White Americans Have No Actual Frame of Reference for Institutionalized Racism
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:18 AM
Apr 2018

They've never experienced it, so it doesn't really exist or is just exaggerated by complainers.

29. I totally agree.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:29 AM
Apr 2018

I also wonder why "White Americans" always end up in the headlines when it comes to issues of racism.

DownriverDem

(6,205 posts)
28. Not this white American
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:28 AM
Apr 2018

I have a strong dislike for repub white Americans. I know lots of white Americans who think like me too.

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
31. My town is 0% black
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:42 AM
Apr 2018

About 50 or 60 years ago a farmer wanted to build a greenhouse and
the commissioners refused to grant him a permit. It would block
the view to Lake Erie. So he decided to sell land for government
housing.

The commisioners changed their vote. And we got a Nice greenhouse!

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
38. People with an interest in believing the Starbucks incident to have happened in isolation...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 09:27 AM
Apr 2018

...believe it happened in isolation.

BumRushDaShow

(127,272 posts)
47. It is
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 11:07 AM
Apr 2018

but they want to focus on a "plurality" instead.

The fact that neither me nor several generations back of my ancestors are not/or were no longer slaves is as a result of whites of good conscience who fought and died alongside POC or used the power of their positions to make it so, and this includes those who even today, continue to speak out on behalf of humanity.

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