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SomethingNew

(279 posts)
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 03:35 PM Apr 2018

Prison Abuse and Rape aren't Laughing Matters

Rape in prison is just as bad as every other kind of rape. Abuse, assault, and violence in prison is just as bad as it is out here in the wider world. Neither are laughing or casual matters.

I have seen far too many people casually mentioning how rough a time someone they don't like is going to have in prison. Gleeful references to a person being raped in prison can be found in just about every thread about a criminal. Sometimes veiled, often not.

This needs to change as part of essential criminal justice reform. That reform is part of the Party's official platform. Its right there under the category for bringing Americans together and removing barriers to opportunity.

Accordingly, I find it very disturbing that a "Democrat" reported a post on this forum calling out these disgusting instances of wishing rape on another human being. I find it very disturbing that numerous other "Democrats" voted to hide that post. It is very disturbing that anyone, especially within the Democratic Party, could find being anti-rape a divisive issue.

We need some self-reflection on this issue.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Prison Abuse and Rape aren't Laughing Matters (Original Post) SomethingNew Apr 2018 OP
Such posts should always be hidden by DU juries. MineralMan Apr 2018 #1
K&R. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2018 #2
Well said. nt NCTraveler Apr 2018 #3
We are a duty in society to ensure that prisoners exboyfil Apr 2018 #4
I agree with your point about prison rape janterry Apr 2018 #5
It's really disgusting Saviolo Apr 2018 #6
It really is NOT funny whathehell Apr 2018 #16
White women shouldnt have a monopoly on abuse issues. radius777 Apr 2018 #18
Um, who said anything about "white" women? whathehell Apr 2018 #24
White feminism is constantly trying to make the narrative radius777 Apr 2018 #26
Please show us how "white feminism is always trying to make the narrative whathehell Apr 2018 #28
Not all white women are feminists wryter2000 Apr 2018 #29
Thank you. whathehell Apr 2018 #30
Any time I've alerted those opinions, they've been hidden. Why not edit out the uncalled for... marble falls Apr 2018 #7
It's not uncalled for. SomethingNew Apr 2018 #8
More than some. Every time. Rape is not funny and it isn't condoned here as a joke or policy... marble falls Apr 2018 #20
I'm with you-- it's much more effective and efficient to hide a problem that (really) exists. LanternWaste Apr 2018 #10
Show me where its even been suggested that rape is funny or that prison rape is good policy. marble falls Apr 2018 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author left-of-center2012 Apr 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author left-of-center2012 Apr 2018 #19
One can measure a society by the acceptance of those things. byronius Apr 2018 #11
K&R geardaddy Apr 2018 #12
I am glad you brought this up with the moderators bronxiteforever Apr 2018 #13
Thank you for this!!! I 100% agree! nt USALiberal Apr 2018 #14
Thank you. Yes. TygrBright Apr 2018 #15
Agree completely, it's a human rights issue on a mass scale. radius777 Apr 2018 #17
thanks for this post cynical_idealist Apr 2018 #22
something that people forget DonCoquixote Apr 2018 #23
K&R uppityperson Apr 2018 #25
K&R Mike Niendorff Apr 2018 #27
I agree. Any post making light of rape should be hidden. Nitram Apr 2018 #31

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
1. Such posts should always be hidden by DU juries.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 03:38 PM
Apr 2018

That they are not is disturbing. They occur all too frequently here, I think.

exboyfil

(17,857 posts)
4. We are a duty in society to ensure that prisoners
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 03:43 PM
Apr 2018

are secure in their person and possessions. Extra-judicial punishment of any sort is awful, and this is particularly inhumane.

You are right that the jokes just condone it. They rate right up their with lynching jokes.

 

janterry

(4,429 posts)
5. I agree with your point about prison rape
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 03:44 PM
Apr 2018

but perhaps your post would be better if it didn't disagree with forum moderation? FWIW, I agree when these posts are hidden

I've worked with folks in prison - who have been gang raped (young men at the time). It's horrifying.

Saviolo

(3,270 posts)
6. It's really disgusting
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:24 PM
Apr 2018

People are just so ready to casually throw out prison rape jokes, and it's just horrifying to me.

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
16. It really is NOT funny
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:38 PM
Apr 2018

That said, how many of these men took rape seriously on the outside, when the majority of rape victims we're women?...How many are rapists themselves?

radius777

(3,624 posts)
18. White women shouldnt have a monopoly on abuse issues.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:05 PM
Apr 2018

Feminism and MeToo are largely white female(majority of whom voted for Trump) movements, that tend to obscure the abuse that others face.

https://justdetention.org/for-survivors-of-prison-rape-saying-me-too-isnt-an-option/

Men abused in prison are not rapists themselves, that is disgusting to even suggest that.

Men (and women, usually women of color) subject to abuse in prisons are usually those who are weaker/less street smart - and thus targeted as a result.

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
24. Um, who said anything about "white" women?
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:17 PM
Apr 2018

Answer: No one.

As for your blanket dismissal of "feminism and Me too" being "largely white female majority voted for Trump". ..Say WHAT?..
Sorry, radius, but you CLEARLY don't know white femiinists if you think "the majority voted for Trump".

Given the HUGE, highly publicized Anti- Trrumpn Women's March staged just a day after the inauguration whose participants were diverse, if mostlly white, I can hardly believe anyone could think that. .The Women's March was not only The largest Anti--Trump. protest ever, it was the largest protest of ANY kind in American history, so, no, liike the majority of white female college graduates, "mostly white women feminists" diid not vote for Trump, they voted for Hillary.

As for this meme of "Feminism being mainly a white organization", let's get clear on that -- I've been part of the the Women's movement since iit started in the late '60's and it has ALWAYS welcomed women of color..- One of their earliest, most outspioken members was an African American woman named Florence Kennedy. Beyond that, I'm guessing you've never opened an issue of the movement's signature publication, Ms. Magazine, because if you had, you couldn't help but notice that at least 50 to 60 percent of it's content is devoted to women of color and always has been. .

Again, the outreach is there and always has been If women if color choose not to join, that's strictly their decision and no one else's.

radius777

(3,624 posts)
26. White feminism is constantly trying to make the narrative
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 12:51 AM
Apr 2018

Last edited Wed Apr 25, 2018, 04:26 PM - Edit history (2)

all about them, while derailing issues of abuse that other groups face, your post was exhibit A, as it attempted to demonize and delegitimize male victims, was oblivious to the fact that this issue is not limited to men but also includes juveniles and women in detention, and attemped the typical feminist thread hijack that tries to spin a narrative where all men are oppressors of all women, when this is simply untrue, given how many white women vote for the oppressor and how many men (of color mainly, but also some white men) vote with the oppressed. The success of Feminism and MeToo owes heavily to the fact that these are movements driven mainly by middle class white women, and as such, do not address the topic of this thread, which is the widespread abuse and torture of human beings within our own jails and detention facilities.

White women as a class (who voted for Trump 53% to Hillary 42%) are the prime beneficiaries of MeToo, which is not a liberal movement per se, considering how many conservative women like LeAnn Tweeden (who took out Franken) are part of it.

For Survivors of Prison Rape, Saying ‘Me Too’ Isn’t an Option
Josephine Yurcaba
January 8, 2018
Rewire
...
Prisons and jails haven’t faced much public outrage for widespread sexual abuse problems partially because people just don’t know how bad things are. “I think a lot of myths and negative stereotypes flourish … because prisons are isolated—I think both geographically and kind of culturally,” Lerner-Kinglake said. “There’s an othering that happens with prisoners. And I think bringing prisoners into the conversation so that we see them as full people who are worthy and deserving of rights [is how we change culture].”

But changing culture—even outside of prisons—isn’t easy, and #MeToo has illuminated that. The movement has shown the extent of sexual abuse and harassment women face, and, for the most part, it’s accepted that those women don’t deserve that abuse. But those women who have become the face of the movement usually haven’t been charged with crimes. There’s an extra battle that prison abuse survivors face: The public thinks prisoners deserve what they get, and there’s a persistent belief that inmates do not have rights.

“In practice, the culture defines what these institutions actually take seriously,” Fettig said. “The fact that the vast majority of people in prison—whether they’re men or women—are poor people of color plays into how our criminal justice system operates at every single level. It plays into the fact that the larger public doesn’t pay attention to these issues, and doesn’t take them seriously.”
...


edit: clarification (bolded)

whathehell

(28,969 posts)
28. Please show us how "white feminism is always trying to make the narrative
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 10:15 AM
Apr 2018

about themselves" and how my post "is exhibit a" of this..Can you give us examples?

I gave you examples that quite credibly argue against your claim, but your post ignores those and just goes on making undocumented accusations.

The huge anti-Trump Women's March and a documened, 40 year history of feminist outreach to women of color can't be ignored because they don't fit your narrative.

No one can have a dialogue with someone who expects to be listened to, but refuses to listen themselves.


wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
29. Not all white women are feminists
Wed Apr 25, 2018, 11:34 AM
Apr 2018

Unless you have specific data about feminists, you are talking nonsense. You can't tell me feminists voted for Trump and then hit the streets in huge numbers days after he was sworn in.

Edited to add: not all feminists are women. Not all feminists are white.

marble falls

(56,371 posts)
7. Any time I've alerted those opinions, they've been hidden. Why not edit out the uncalled for...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:27 PM
Apr 2018

criticism of DU?

SomethingNew

(279 posts)
8. It's not uncalled for.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:30 PM
Apr 2018

I'm referencing a jury decision to hide a post criticizing the people who find rape funny and acceptable. Decisions like that are part of the problem.

And while you may have had some luck getting some offending posts hidden, most remain up.

marble falls

(56,371 posts)
20. More than some. Every time. Rape is not funny and it isn't condoned here as a joke or policy...
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 07:26 PM
Apr 2018

it gets hidden.

PM me with the example you have had with it not being hidden.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
10. I'm with you-- it's much more effective and efficient to hide a problem that (really) exists.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 04:57 PM
Apr 2018

I'm with you-- it's much more effective and efficient to hide a problem that (really) exists through juries. That way, we aren't forced to see, or even contemplate that which happens daily.

Response to SomethingNew (Original post)

Response to left-of-center2012 (Reply #9)

byronius

(7,369 posts)
11. One can measure a society by the acceptance of those things.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:06 PM
Apr 2018

And we're not making the grade.

Gotta say, thanks for this post. Very important issue.

TygrBright

(20,733 posts)
15. Thank you. Yes.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:30 PM
Apr 2018

There's nothing necessarily wrong with expressing the wish that someone guilty of criminal behavior end up behind bars.

It is how our culture responds to certain kinds of human toxins.

And as with the human body's immune system response to various toxins, it's not always optimal for the greater good.

But it's what we got, right now.

Wishing that cycles of cruelty, evil and violence are perpetuated by retribution/revenge is counterproductive and expressing those wishes normalizes the belief that such perpetuation is the best we can do.

And it isn't.

We can do better.

Even with loathsome destructive human toxins.

wearily,
Bright

radius777

(3,624 posts)
17. Agree completely, it's a human rights issue on a mass scale.
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 05:50 PM
Apr 2018

Rape, stabbings and other brutality should never be part of the de facto sentence of a crime, which is a violation of human rights laws as well as the Constitution's 8th Amendment prohibiting cruel and unusal punishment. It will probably take someone bringing this to the Supreme Court to eliminate this barbaric practice.

Sadly, the public is under a false impression that only those who commit truly heinous crimes (pedos, rapists, terrorists, serial killers, etc) are the ones who get raped, and thus there is some sort of twisted karmic justice to this (which I don't agree with, we either believe in court determined justice or we don't, no sense having expensive courts otherwise).

The reality is that (both male and female) prisons are controlled by gangs, and it is non-gang affiliated individuals - people who are weaker/introverted, in for minor or accidental crimes, wrongly held/convicted, young, old, gay, disabled, etc - are the ones overwhelmingly targeted for abuse, usually repeatedly.

Here is a good organization that deals with this issue:

https://justdetention.org/
Just Detention International (JDI) is a health and human rights organization that seeks to end sexual abuse in all forms form of detention. JDI has three core goals for its work: to hold government officials accountable for prisoner rape; to promote public attitudes that value the health and safety of inmates; and to ensure that survivors of sexual abuse behind bars get the help they need.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
23. something that people forget
Tue Apr 24, 2018, 08:09 PM
Apr 2018

is that rape is often a means of brainwashing; a means to make people who do not want to be in a gang vulnerable. Add some more abuse, and you have someone who, if they are not a psychopath when they got in, will be one when they get out, and they will have criminal contacts on the outside ready to make sure they are a more effective criminal.

Our Jail system might as well be a "college for crooks."

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