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Time for change

(13,714 posts)
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:40 PM Jul 2012

Election Fraud 2012 – Voting Machine Fraud

As we all know, there are some very wealthy and powerful interests in this country who would hate to see us elect many candidates for public office who care about the interests and well-being of average Americans and are willing and courageous enough to use the power of their offices to benefit the American people. That would disrupt the status quo by reducing the power that the American oligarchy exerts over our lives.

These wealthy and powerful interests are not going to just sit by and watch democracy take its course. Recent history has shown (and not so recent history as well) that they will go to great lengths to prevent the election of candidates who are antagonistic to their interests – that is, who act in the interests of the majority of their constituents – including the rigging of our election system to elect the candidates of their choice.

These people arranged for the election of George W. Bush in 2000, and did so again in 2004. You can bet that they will do whatever is within reach of their considerable power in 2012 to disrupt the democratic process. They have many methods at their disposal for that purpose. In this post I’ll discuss election fraud mediated by voting machines.


Vote switching on electronic machines that produce unverifiable results

Electronic voting machines that record and count your vote with no intervening process (for example, voters punching holes in or making marks on ballots prior to the ballot being read by a machine) are called direct recording electronic (DRE) machines. Unless they produce a paper record of your vote which you have the opportunity to verify, there is no way on earth to verify that the vote total claimed by the machine represents a true and accurate vote total. That’s why they call it “black box voting”.

In 2012, 25% of American voters residing in 17 U.S. states will be voting on these machines, with no accompanying paper record. The owners of these machines are private corporations – most of them with strong ties to the Republican Party. Voting experts unanimously agree (including even those who don’t agree that the 2000 or 2004 Presidential and other elections were stolen) that voting on these machines represents a travesty of democracy.

In addition to the 25% of American voters who will be voting on these machines in 2012 with no accompanying paper record, another 8% will be voting on the same kind of machines, but with an accompanying paper record that the machine produces and provides the voter with an opportunity to verify. This is called a "paper trail" or a "voter verified paper audit trail" (VVPAT). The VVPAT takes many different specific forms, some better than others. But all have problems. Some problems with the various VVPAT systems include: 1) some do not provide ballots directly to the voter for verification. When that is the case, the voting machine can be programmed to produce fake electronic votes that do not correspond to the image shown to the voter; 2) evidence has shown that even when the paper vote is provided directly to the voter, many voters don’t take the time to verify its accuracy; 3) paper trails are of use only when they are recounted (i.e. audited) by hand following an election. Many states have non-existent to poor procedures for doing this, and even when such procedures exist on the books, they may not be executed.

Potential solutions
By far the best solution to this problem is to disallow the use of DRE machines to count our votes. Period. Our elections are public functions that represent the heart of our democracy. To entrust that responsibility to private corporations with their own set of interests makes a mockery of democracy. But it is too late for 2012. Voting precincts in the United States have already established what methods of voting they will use on Election Day.

In the minority of cases where a VVPAT accompanies the use of a DRE machine, procedures should be in place to make sure that voters understand how to verify their vote and what to do when their paper record doesn’t match their intended vote. An audit system of routine recounting of a statistically valid sample of ballots should be in place to verify the accuracy of the machine count. The audit should be completed before the final results are certified.

Exit polls have often been used – in other countries – to verify the accuracy of machine produced vote counts. When the exit poll diverges substantially from the official vote count, that should signify a serious problem in need of investigation. Extensive hand vote recounts should then be performed (but of course are not possible where DRE machines without VVPAT are used). The use of exit polls to act as checks on national elections seemed to work very well in Yugoslavia in 2000 and in the Ukraine in 2004. A large discrepancy between exits polls and the official vote count in Yugoslavia was used, in part, to topple Slobodan Milosevik from power in 2000. A similar large discrepancy between exit polls and the official vote count in the Ukraine was used, in part, to elevate Victor Yanukovich to the Ukrainian Presidency over Victor Yushchenko in 2004. The government of the United States was happy to facilitate both processes, using the exit poll discrepancies as a major rationale. Yet in the United States, exit polls are not seriously considered as a means of monitoring elections. When exit polls in 2004 showed John Kerry winning the U.S. Presidency, our national news media was silent about it. Instead we were shown TV graphics of adjusted exit polls, indicating George W. Bush as the winner. TV viewers had no way of knowing that these weren’t really exit polls at all, but rather they were numbers statistically adjusted to fit the machine recorded vote count. When knowledgeable people pointed out the huge discrepancies between the official vote counts and the results of the exit polls, we were told that the exit polls were wrong – with almost no evidence shown us to back up that claim. Exit polls should be used in this country, as they are in other democracies, to monitor elections.


Tabulation of vote counts

Even when voters produce paper records of their vote, the vast majority of counties in the United States tabulate the final (and official) vote count by adding up the counts from each of their precincts by machine. These machines, just like the machines that register and count our individual votes, can be programmed for fraud. And as is the case with individual DRE machines, there is much evidence that these county “central tabulators” have been used for the purpose of election fraud.

Potential solutions
In theory, the solution to this problem is very simple. Just obtain the vote count for every precinct in every county as soon as the results are posted, before the final and official county vote count is tabulated. Then, when the official count is announced, see if it matches the totals from the individual precincts. But what is simple in concept can be very difficult in actual practice. We need airtight comprehensive systems for doing this. Whatever systems were in place for doing this in 2004 did not work. Election integrity organizations were unable to obtain the original (pre-tabulator) vote counts from way too many precincts following that election.

Where paper records are produced, hand recounts of the vote can be conducted to verify the results of the county tabulated votes. As discussed above, good thorough systems must be in place for doing this.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Election Fraud 2012 – Voting Machine Fraud (Original Post) Time for change Jul 2012 OP
We all do our taxes on the same form Politicalboi Jul 2012 #1
Voice from the horrific past: Raster Jul 2012 #2
I strongly disagree with a 2 week voting window. bvar22 Aug 2012 #5
There are also some good arguments for the window Time for change Aug 2012 #6
I understand your argument, bvar22 Aug 2012 #7
republicans went after the voters and didn't touch the machines...says a lot spanone Jul 2012 #3
K&R. nt OnyxCollie Aug 2012 #4
 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
1. We all do our taxes on the same form
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:51 PM
Jul 2012

We should all vote on the same ballot. And we should get rid of all electronic voting machines. Each district should count ballots by hand, and tally them every hour. We should be able to vote for at least 2 weeks prior to election day, and make it a felony for ANY intentional election or voter fraud.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
2. Voice from the horrific past:
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 11:19 PM
Jul 2012

It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.
--Joseph Stalin

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
5. I strongly disagree with a 2 week voting window.
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 03:20 PM
Aug 2012

Voting should be one day (12 hours), and a serious National Holiday
with Penalties for employers who do not abide by the National Holiday policy,

I realize that this might inconvenience some people,
but the validity of our elections is too important to sacrifice for convenience.
If it is important enough, a way to actually BE THERE will be found.

The reason why I support single day voting is for the Validity and Efficacy of Exit Polls.
It is much harder to steal a precinct from the people who were physically THERE at the time of the vote.
It is much easier to steal if the voting is spread over a two week, or even two day period.
"Well, you just weren't there at the time when ALL those Republicans showed up."

This is the same reason I strongly oppose Vote by Mail.

Time for change

(13,714 posts)
6. There are also some good arguments for the window
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 04:46 PM
Aug 2012

One is that, while we may think of it as a matter of convenience, for some people (primarily those in the most precarious economic situations) it can be much more than that. While it is well and good to say that we should have a National Holiday for voting, even if we had one it would be very difficult to enforce. Undoubtedly there would be employers who, while pretending to comply with it, would let their empolyees know that if they chose to exercise it they would risk losing their jobs. Some employers would do that just for the purpose of aiding the more conservative candidate. As long as we have one day voting there will always be those who will not vote because of economic circumstances, and those people will predominantly be the working poor. Therefore, the more liberal candidates are likely to suffer as a result.

Another issue is that of people who show up on Election Day to vote, only to find out that they have been purged from the voter rolls. That issue alone probably cost John Kerry the 2004 election. I don't know what the voting window was like in Ohio in 2004, or even if there was one, but I believe that if it had been easier to vote early, Kerry probably would have lost a lot less votes than he did, because many who were surprised to find out that they had been purged may have been able to reinstate their voting privileges by Election Day. Illegal voter purging has cost Democrats dearly in recent elections.

I believe as you do that exit polling is very important, and should be used much more than it is to monitor our elections. There are ways that exit polling can be adjusted to account for window voting periods. There is no reason that exit polling has to take place over only a single day. And in any event, before exit polling can be used as an argument for when people can vote, we would need to have an official policy of actually using exit polls to monitor elections. In 2004, for example, they were simply ignored.

The presence of a voting window does not necessarily mean that voters aren't there at the time they vote. They can (and do sometimes) vote at the same location as everyone else. I think that whether a voting window necessarily makes it easier to steal votes is open to question. It undoubtedly depends on many factors, including what kinds of machines are used and what procedures are in place to guard against the stealing of votes.

It is a very complicated issue.


bvar22

(39,909 posts)
7. I understand your argument,
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 06:07 PM
Aug 2012

...but still support a One Day, 12 hour voting period with:

*Paper Ballots deposited in transparent boxes at the precinct or voting station

*Ballot boxes monitored by the public on location
& with live internet video feed like the Casinos

*All Ballots hand counted in public with live video feed

*Multiple Independent Exit Polls in addition to the
"I was THERE, and there is NO WAY that guy won" personal experience exit poll.

*Precinct Totals posted on the door of the voting stations.

*NO Ballot Boxes moved from the voting station or obstructed from view until the election is certified.


That type of security is not feasible over a longer period,
and impossible for Vote by Mail.

Where there is a will, there is a way.
If elections are important enough for you,
you will BE THERE,
especially when the number of lives given for our Democracy and the Right to Vote is taken into consideration.

You have a valid point about being purged.
That can be addressed with Provisional Ballots,
same Day registration (as in Minnesota),
AND good Party ground work,
including some enforcement from our Attorney General coupled to stiff stiff penalties and highly visible prosecutions.
(Why is the Democratic Party leadership SILENT about this most fundamental issue of our democracy?... Especially after TWO or more stolen national elections?)

If Liberals (Democrats) are unduly inconvenienced and "can't make it to vote",
then that is the fault of the Democratic Party,
not a 12 hour window with a National Holiday.

Lets ROLL!


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