60 Minutes is covering Big Pharma

[Honeycombe8]

As one mayor put it, "Why is health care so expensive? Because the fix is in." He was referring to the astronomical prices of pharmaceuticals. One company even buying a competitor; that drug's price has gone up 100,000% in the last 50 years or so.

This is what I'll be looking for when voting. Someone who is not only willing to do something about drug prices, but has DONE something to show she or he is serious about it.

[elleng]

1. and MONOPOLY!

[StarryNite]

2. The Evils of Big Pharma Exposed

"What’s wrong with America is what’s wrong with Big Pharma. And what’s wrong with Big Pharma is what’s wrong with America. This circular reality is aimed to be thoroughly covered in this presentation. This is the story of how Big Pharma seeks enormous profits over the health and well-being of the humans it serves, and how drug companies invasively corrupted the way that the healthcare industry delivers its vital services. This is neither a new nor unique story. In fact, the story of Big Pharma is the exact same story of how Big Government, Big Oil, Big Agri-Chem Giants like Monsanto have come to power. The controlling shareholders of all these major industries are one and the same. Big Money belonging to the global central banking cabal own and operate all the Fortune 500 companies in addition to virtually all national governments on this earth. The Rockefellers privatized healthcare in the United States back in the 1930’s and has financed and largely influenced both healthcare and Big Pharma ever since."

[link:https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-evils-of-big-pharma-exposed/5425382|

[Honeycombe8]

10. Excellent article. Said better than I've ever heard it said. nt

[Archae]

15. "globalrearch.ca" is a far-right Canadian news source, it's even worse than Fox.

[Exotica]

22. Looking at their articles I would say that is not at all accurate.

They are simply not right wing.


Trump Disregards Caravan Migrants’ Legal Right to Apply for Asylum

Trump Administration Hired Israeli Intelligence Firm to Discredit Obama Officials Who Negotiated the Iran Nuclear Deal: Report

Recalling Pete Seeger’s Controversial Performance on the Smothers Brothers Show 50 Years Ago

Dial T for Tyranny: While America Feuds, the Police State Shifts Into High Gear

[Archae]

23. Information about "global research"

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch

[Exotica]

24. that only shows that they are not "RW" as you laid out,

and Rationalwiki is also a slanted website, hardly a definitive source, so colour me utterly unconvinced with your original attempt.

I am not saying everything they (Global Research) post is legit, but I find actual factual error with your initial characterisation, that is all. Many of GA's stances are the exact opposite of the rot Fox pushes. GA overall is also very anti-Trump, so there is that too.

BTW, do you think that "big pharma" is a huge problem or not?

[Archae]

25. So we should use "Infowars" and Faux "news" as sources too?

If the article originally posted is legit, it will be at another more credible source, not a right-wing wack job site.

As to "Big Pharma" I saw a segment on "60 Minutes" last night regarding how they jack up prices by huge amounts.
And it is quite wrong.
But do we label *ALL* large pharmaceutical companies "evil" or "greedy?"
Obviously, no.

BTW, how is rationalwiki "slanted?"
Besides being toward actual facts, not just accusations?

[Exotica]

28. I never said "all" pharma companies were evil or greedy, so that's a non sequitur

You still have not shown how GR is "right wing" in a Foxian way, which is the positing that I engaged you with. I was very specific on that. As for RationalWiki being slanted, just read it, lol. It certainly is not a neutral debunking site. It seems we will just have to disagree on that part. They are not my cuppa.

Btw, I am an atheist and a post grad student who believes in science with all her core, so I am not coming from any sort of angle from those ends.

[Archae]

31. I'll give you just one example...

Mike Adams.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/author/mike-adams

Many articles by him there.

Mike Adams is the "Health Ranger" who runs "Natural News," the quack web site and Adams is a vicious anti-Semite and buddy of Alex Jones, filling in for Jones at times.

Anti-science, anti-vaxxers, "9-11 Truthers," Birthers, anti-Semites, Chemtrails, etc.

[Exotica]

32. like I said, I never claimed Global Research was anywhere near 100% legit

Adams is a wingnut on many things, but you still have not addressed the false Fox-RW labelling, as a lot of what GR puts up is antithetical to the Fox News-induced hive brain.

I would personally never use GA for a citation. I will leave it at that.

[Honeycombe8]

38. It's an anti-Trump, anti-discrimination, pro-environmental site, looks like.

If that's far-right in Canada, Canada must be very very progressive.

[safeinOhio]

3. Drop your prices or we

Nationalize. Take it or leave it.

[dalton99a]

4. +1

[Blue_true]

5. A better route would be to tie patent durations to the fairness of drug pricing.

A drug should be expensive only because it is expensive to make.

[safeinOhio]

6. That industry paid millions lobbying

to extend patents longer. In return they’ve made billions.

[Honeycombe8]

11. +1. nt

[Ilsa]

7. I saw that segment.

Our laws permit them to screw us over, and the penalties are peanuts compared to the profits.

[Ferrets are Cool]

8. And they pay large amounts of $$ the people who WRITE the laws

Until we fix the campaign finance laws, this country is screwed.

[YOHABLO]

9. Oh you mean like ALEC and K street?

[Honeycombe8]

12. Yep. THIS is one of the problems. Some of the politicians go to work in Pharma when they leave.

They get big fat juicy jobs in Big Pharma, where they do nothing but use their political contacts to push the company's business plans.

In the meantime, people suffer and die from not being able to buy a drug they need.

[ooky]

13. They write the laws themselves and hand them to their shills.

[Hoyt]

14. Something needs to be done about drug prices, but drugs are only about 10% of healthcare

costs.

[Honeycombe8]

20. I read it's about 20% of the cost. To the person who needs it, it's everything, though.

It depends on whether you need a drug for pain or to stay alive. To those who need it, a drug isn't just 20% of his/her cost that year. It's everything. And it's priced unfairly in many instances. Sometimes violating antitrust laws possibly to wipe out the competition, so it can charge unreasonably high prices.

It's the fairness of it. Not that it's 20% or 80% of total costs.

There are many things in health care a person can do without or use a substitute for. It's harder, when it comes to drugs. And there's not much competition.

[Hoyt]

30. Definitely agree with second sentence. 2016 government report says 10%. But, point I'm making is

Point I'm making is that even if you cut it in half or totally eliminated the cost of drugs, healthcare would still be enormously expensive without other changes.

I believe it is time for government regulation of drug costs, but that will likely reduce innovation to some degree. Expensive drugs like what is essentially a Hepatitis C cure, are well worth its cost in terms of lives saved, reduction in hospital stays and other treatments, better quality of life, etc. But, everyone has to have affordable access to it. But to provide EVERYONE with affordable basic care, I think we are going to have to forgo some innovations and treatment that are just too high for the "value" they bring to society overall. Of course, if we cut the military budget, we's be fine . . . . . for awhile.

[BobTheSubgenius]

16. When a pharma giant is doing well, it has SO much money to throw around, it's ridiculous.

A very good friend of mine works in Regulatory at one of the very biggest pharma corps. She has told me about the largess that is spread around when they have a small handful of profitable drugs still under patent protection.

When they have, say, a half-day seminar, the catering is outrageous. Every custom coffee concoction known to man and every pastry you can imagine, plus healthier options like several kinds of muffins, bagels, fruit. You name it.

That's the morning coffee break. Lunch is a full-on catered affair.

Has a company you've worked for ever held a blood drive? Where every employee that donates blood gets a nice sticker or a lapel pin to commemorate their gift? When their company does it, each donating employee gets, for example, a designer label jogging suit.

THAT is how the hoi polloi are treated. Imagine upper management. They probably get cars.

That is also partly why a drug that costs 85 cents per pill to manufacture costs several hundred dollars for a 10-day course of treatment.

[Victor_c3]

17. That's what happens when you depend on private industry to run healthcare

Corporation come in, control everything, then they have to figure out how to keep getting growth year-after-year for their stock holders.

Innovations and productivity boosts and cutting labor costs only go so far. After a while they have to turn to straight-up fraud.

I watched a good documentary about big pharma on Netflix recently (it was one of the episodes of the show “dirty money”. Basically, the company ramped up prices on a drug and people with insurance don’t notice the rising costs as their copays remain the same. The people without insurance or those who lose health insurance get royally screwed when s drug that used to cost $16 now goes for over a $250 (or more). Also, the costs paid are eventually passed to all consumers - so we are all being frauded by these greedy companies.

I don’t have a problem with someone being a millionaire if they are actually doing something to earn it, but artificially jacking up prices of medications at the expense of all Americans for no reason other than to increase your profits for your stock holders is just plain evil. It’s not like medications are something we can live without. If it was being done by a shoe company I wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow. I’d just buy my shoes from someone else. You can’t do that with meds, many of them are controlled by patents and whatnot.

Everything medical needs to be nationalized for the good of our nation.

[LisaM]

18. I know John Edwards blew it, BUT...

before he quit the race, one of the last issues I remember his mentioning was regulating pharma company ads. I always have had a sneaking suspicion - and I am not defending him - that his whole messy affair might have been a serious up.

[mitch96]

19. "Why is health care so expensive? Because the fix is in"

Little jerk Martin Shkreli pulls the same move and get's 7 years... Big Pharma??? nada.
They paid for good legislation (for them) to get away with this the way they did...
Either control it better or use free market capitalism to regulate it... ?allow imports?

m

[Honeycombe8]

21. Well, Shkreli IS pharma, and what he did was legal.

He was jailed for defrauding other rich guys...some sort of money scheme. Probably like Trump pulls.

[mitch96]

29. Same happened to Martha Stewart

Got nailed for lying, not the crime...
m

[democratisphere]

26. Some Democrats are owned by BIG PHARMA and should be scrutinized for that relationship.

[dalton99a]

27. +1

[DFW]

33. It's not only pricing

It's also the forbidding of certain drugs that work far better than anything on our market. An American friend of my wife had serious digestion problems after a long period of antibiotic medication that she needed to combat a particularly nasty infection. My wife sent her an over-the-counter medication they have here in Germany that treats the internal imbalance caused by the extended period of antibiotic treatment. She was fine within ten days.

The most flagrant example I know of was shown to me by a co-worker from Brazil. We were both working on an assignment in London, and I had developed horrible lower back pain. It had gotten so bad, I had started seeing a chiropractor for the first time in my life. Even he didn't make much progress. When my Brazilian colleague noticed I was having trouble just getting up and sitting down, he asked what my problem was. I said intense lower back pain."Oh, that," he commented as if I said I needed a Kleenex. He gave me a pin pill, and said, "here, take this before you go to bed." I was so desperate, I didn't even ask what it was. So, I took it and lowered myself into bed. The next morning, I woke and started to very carefully get up. But I didn't need to be careful. The pain was gone, I mean, not just better but COMPLETELY gone. I couldn't believe it. I was scared I would get addicted to these things, no matter what they were. But no, not only did I not get addicted, I didn't need another one.

These pills come in boxes of 30 pills each, and cost $30 per box, or $1 per pill. And they WORK. We had a gardner over on Saturday, and he had complained before of horrible back pain. I said, no wonder with all the strenuous stuff you do. He is in hie early forties, and looks ten years younger. I gave him one of these pills about a month ago when I had last seen him, before I went to the States. He told me that he had naturally been rather skeptical of my glowing praise of this medicine, but one evening he said the pain was so strong, he was willing to try anything to suppress it. He finally took the little pink pill from Brazil. Like everyone else, he woke up the next morning (and the next four weeks after that) pain free. He could once again do anything. He said he immediately went to the internet to find out where he could get some here in Europe. After all, this was the INTERNET!! You can get ANYTHING over the internet, can't you? Well, no, apparently not. These pills are sold ONLY in Brazil. End of story. He even contemplated blowing off a long-planned trip with his girlfriend to Myanmar to go to Brazil instead. I said, don't do that, she'll kill you. As it turns out, my colleague is going home next month for a family visit, and will bring back a few packs of these things. I will save a few for our gardener, although, so far (a month later now) he hasn't needed another one.

Now if there is a wonder pill out there, that cures muscular back pain with a $1 dosage, with no side effects and lasting effect, wouldn't you think that pharma industry would be out there trying to buy up the patent and sell them in America and Europe for $50 each (or, if you are Martin Shkreli, $750 each)? Hell if I know, but I have never seen or heard of these things being offered for sale outside of Brazil, a place where I have never been. I'm sure Big Pharma knows about this pill, but if they can sell 150 pills at $10 each that work about 5% as effectively, and get orthopedists to prescribe them as the strongest thing they can prescribe, what interest could they POSSIBLY have in selling a pill that does 100% of the job, and for $1 (even if they ell them for 50 times that)?

And there lies our (the patients') problem.

Anyone for a trip up the Amazon, with a stop at the local pharmacy before returning home?

By the way, if anyone IS planning a visit to Brazil, the pill is called TANDRILAX, and comes in red boxes of 30 pills, and costs the equivalent of $30 per box.

Boa viagem!

[MineralMan]

34. Tandrilax - here's some information

What is Tandrilax?
Tandrilax Tablet is used for Back pain, Sprains and strains, Headache, Bronchopulmonary dysplasia in premature infants, Rheumatoid arthritis, Frozen shoulder, Dislocations and fractures, Joint pain, Toothache, Ear pain, Periods pain, Fever and other conditions. Tandrilax Tablet may also be used for purposes not listed in this medication guide.

Tandrilax Tablet contains Caffeine, Carisoprodol, Diclofenac Sodium and Paracetamol as active ingredients.

Tandrilax Tablet works by increasing the pain threshold and increases the blood flow across the skin, heat loss and sweating; reducing the substances in the body that cause inflammation and pain; altering the signals from spinal cord and brain thus relaxing muscles; antagonizing the adenosine receptors;

https://www.tabletwise.com/brazil/tandrilax-tablet

Bottom line is that the active ingredients include an NSAID (diclofenac sodium) and acetaminophen (paracetomol), along with a muscle relaxant and some caffeine.

These days, a lot of physicians are recommending a combination of ibuprophen and acetaminophen for pain, and it produces excellent results. Carisoprodol is sold here under it's chemical name or as Soma, a brand name drug. It is a prescription medication, though. Caffeine is caffeine.

If you can handle aspirin, Extra Strength Excedrin has all but the carisoprodol. It's also an effective pain relief combination.

Or, you can choose to take ibuprophen and acetominophen together with a cup of coffee. You won't get the muscle relaxant, but the combination might work just as well without it.

As with all NSAIDs, side effects, including gastritis and other stomach problems are fairly common.

[DFW]

35. The beauty of Tandrilax was that I needed only one, and that did the trick

It was so with every one of our friends that tried it, too. Granted, the 30 or 40 people we gave one to is a small test group, and surely not representative of the population as a whole (most were Germans), but in that small test pool, not one said they had experienced any side effects whatsoever.

Now, if one were to take one Tandrilax a day for a week, I can imagine some side effects would pop up eventually. However, we never had anyone tell us they needed more than one. It HAS occurred that some people had back problems pop up again six months or a year later. However, one Tandrilax was again enough to not only alleviate the symptoms, but make them disappear altogether. And THAT is what probably scares the living crap out the pharmaceutical companies. I would surmise that their CEOs want their bonuses paid in cash, not praise.

[MineralMan]

36. I understand. But, it's not a miracle drug.

You can duplicate it with cheap, over-the-counter medications, except for the muscle relaxant, which probably isn't an essential part of the good effects, anyhow. Soma never did much good for my back pain. But Advil and Tylenol worked very well when combined. The caffeine is also not essential, although it does seem to help with the benefits of the other two.

That combination is being recommended more and more here by doctors. It's effective, non-addictive, and most people tolerate it very well. The NSAID in that Brazilian combination is also available in the US, but requires a prescription. It can be too harsh on the stomach, too often, for it to be OTC. Is it more effective? Possibly, but the ibuprofen and acetaminophen works very well in combination.

[DFW]

37. That could all be. I wouldn't know

I only took my pill about 3 years ago, so I'm still waiting for the effects to wear off.

Like I said, the beauty of Tandrilax, is that you don't need to combine anything. Just the one pill is enough. Again, though, I can't say of it works as well for everyone, or if nobody would ever have zero side effects. You'd need a much bigger test pool for that. Maybe if there is a Brazilian FDA, they would have some statistics?

[MineralMan]

39. That pill is not still working. All of the ingredients were dealt with by

your kidneys and liver withing 48 hours. What actually happened is that the pill relieved your pain right away and your body relaxed and healed itself. I've had back problems myself. Pain so bad I can't stand up straight at all. If I can deal with that pain using OTC pain relievers and sleep through the night, the next morning I'm a lot better and have no problems until the next time.

The ingredients in that Tandrilax pill solve the immediate problem with your pain, and then were excreted and gone from your body within 48 hours, if not sooner. Your body relaxed and your muscles were no longer in spasm mode.

The substitute ingredients I mentioned would have done the same thing, exactly. If you add Soma or its generic equivalent, you'd have had exactly the same results. Any urgent care doctor would give you a prescription for Soma or the generic. The NSAID and acetaminophen are over the counter, very inexpensive medications. Caffeine is available at any place that sells coffee.

It wasn't an amazing pill. You just happened to have a problem that could be resolved with a single dose. But everything in that pill was out of your body within 24-48 hours.

[DFW]

44. I realize that the ingredients were gone quickly

However it was so effective that it relieved the pain and relaxed the tense muscles all at once. Maybe once can do the same with the combination you listed, but if so, there are an awful lot of people out there (and definitely here) who don't know it, and aren't told it by their doctors. Can one get all the necessary ingredients in the USA for $1?

[Honeycombe8]

41. It sounds like it removed inflammation.

The pill's substances wouldn't still be in your body. But if it removed inflammation, that can stay removed for many years, if the person doesn't do something to cause it to inflame again.

I know, because that happened to me. I had sacroiliac pain really bad off & on for 2 years, after straining the area doing something. Finally went to dr. He said it was inflamed and gave me a 10 day regimen of Naproxin. I had to do the full 10 days, even after the pain went away, to be sure and knock out the inflammation. I did the regimen. The pain went away and did not return for 10 years or so (I may have had a twinge or two in the intervening years).

[Honeycombe8]

40. Thanks. I'm going to write that down, for when I need it.

I'll give it a try.

[MineralMan]

43. Since it's OTC stuff, it's worth a try.

Follow package dosages and take ibuprophen with food to minimize gastro issues. However, if you don't get relief from the combination, off you go to the doctor. Seriously. OTC self-medication is often a good way to start with an acute problem, but if it doesn't work soon, you need to be looked at by a doctor.

We humans have weak backs. Back pain is one of the most common problems we experience. Doctors often don't have an answer, either. Normally, a typical back problem will resolve itself in a week or two, or even less. If it doesn't, then it's time to start looking for more answers, but many people have recurring acute back pain that resolves with rest, heat and OTC medications.

When my back gets into spasm mode, I take the ibuprophen and tylenol in generic forms. I drink coffee anyhow. I also use topical stuff like Ben-Gay or a heating pad. A bad episode might last a week, but if I catch it as soon as it begins, I'm often OK by the next day. Rest is crucial. Find a position that is the least painful and stay in it, and the body will normalize itself. The medications do help to find that minimal pain position, though.

On the other hand, back pain caused by disc problems or more serious spinal issues will not resolve on their own. Then, it's time to visit the doctor.

There's no magic answer for everyone. But, an acute back pain thing is usually self-limiting. If it's not, then more investigation is needed.

[DFW]

45. An mportant distinction for sure

Disc pain must be treated by an orthopedist. No pill will do the trick with bones.

[MineralMan]

46. Yup.

Most back pain is soft-tissue stuff, though, especially in people under 50 years old.

[DFW]

47. Our orthopedist here said:

This model has a shelf life of 60 years. Anything over that is a bonus, but won't last.

He was talking about our bodies.

[MineralMan]

48. Pretty accurate.

I'm 72. After walking a mile, now, my hips hurt. Not badly enough to seek hip replacement surgery yet, but it won't be too long.

I'm slower, weaker, and less able than I once was, physically. So far, though, my brain's still working at full capacity. For now.

[Honeycombe8]

49. Yeah...like yu, I get the regular inflammation back pain sometimes.

I went to a dr years ago. He told me it was inflammation, to take naproxyn for 10 full days to knock it out. I did, and it did. That sort of really bad pain has never come back. But it'll flare up in a less severe way now and then, so that it hurts for a few days or so.

I usu. take ibuprophen or Aleve. But truth is, I try not to take any medication at all. I drink a lot of caffeine (French ancestry...I grew up on coffee).

Thank goodness I don't have spinal issues (knock on wood). That's bad news.

But when my back flares up again, I'll try the combination you described and see how that works. If it means I can take fewer meds, or it works more quickly, that would be great.

Thanks so much!

[budkin]

42. It's called FREEDOM

God Bless America

/sarcasm

[hunter]

50. My pharmacy bills are about $300 a month. That's with insurance.

If I don't take my meds I eventually end up in the E.R.. That will blow our $8000 deductible really quick. And it's never really $8000 because of the hospital charges our insurance rejects.

One of my brothers has similar health issues but he lives close enough to Mexico that he can buy his meds there for considerably less.

I'd ask him to buy me drugs and mail them, but he got onto some kind of U.S. government shit list for buying medicines outside the country. He didn't like being treated like a criminal. This even happens sometimes to people who buy meds on the internet from Canada.

None of the drugs me and my brother have prescriptions for are the fun sort. They have unpleasant side effects. Nobody would take them for fun. But the alternative of no meds is worse.

Recently when I picked up my prescriptions the clerk suggested I go beg for some kind of manufacturer coupon program.

Funny how that even with the coupons, the medicines still cost less outside the U.S.A.., no coupons, no insurance.

Maybe if the pharmaceutical companies didn't spend all that money on shitty consumer advertising we could have reasonably priced drugs for those unfortunate enough to need them. Obviously shitty consumer advertising and buying corrupt U.S. politicians is highly profitable.

[Honeycombe8]

51. And yet, many want to leave Mexico and its cheap medications to come here...

where they can't get them? Or do they maybe continue to get them from family in Mexico? Maybe that.

Is it legal buy medications in Mexico?

[hunter]

52. There was a little shop in our town catering to farmworkers...

... that was busted for selling Mexican over-the-counter medicines. Trouble was they were not labeled for sale in the U.S.A., and some of them are not over-the-counter here in the U.S.A., or legal to sell at all.

Our CVS sells many familiar Mexican over-the-counter meds, with required U.S. labeling, most of which have an equivalent here.

Tijauna clinics and pharmacies are a huge business. Most care about their reputations (you can look them up on yelp, for what its worth...) and don't deal in anything sketchy. Most of their customers are U.S. Americans, a lot of them retired people with limited incomes.

People also use Canadian pharmacies. Something to beware of, some international pharmacies will imply they are Canadian when they are not. And one big Canadian pharmacy was recently busted for selling counterfeit drugs.

I'm in no way advocating this trade except to illustrate how haywire prescription prices are in the U.S.A..

Here's an official FDA scare sheet:

https://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm143561.htm

[Honeycombe8]

53. Wow. Lots of information. Thanks.

I heard about that "Canadian" pharmacy selling counterfeit drugs in recent years.

Yeah, it's so screwed up. And no politicians are even interested in fixing it. They're all in Big Pharma's pockets, either now or hoping to be.