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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSolly Mack
(90,761 posts)And for people to to question past presidents instead of her, because she was only following orders and she followed those orders with integrity.
Snort.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)in the history of ass cracks.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)to be clean as a whistle.
And she shouldn't be punished for following the orders of a president.
spanone
(135,802 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Long memories can be lonely.
spanone
(135,802 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)for her war crimes?
I'm a female and I don't see how it helps women to name a war criminal as head of the CIA. What? Now both male and female war criminals are equal?
Really?
Really?
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Haspel did her job. Blah, blah, blah.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)in this capacity in the Obama administration or just W?
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)And Director of the National Clandestine Service in 2013.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)I suppose the more guilty she is of torture the more Bolton loves her.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)But let's be honest, if anyone who could get her fired actually objected to torture, she would have been fired, at the very least, long ago.
She deserves to be in prison. Not just her, but certainly her.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)there was probably torture going on illegally during the Obama administration that wasnt cracked down on because these type of people managed to convince the chief that it was necessary OR they simply did it and hid it.
I am thinking if it did continue under Barack he did not know because I know for god damn sure Obama knows as we know torture DOES NOT WORK.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Speaking of the threat of rogue states.... yet a country that tortures IS a rogue state. She won't be commenting on that though.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)Appointing known torturers just makes that worse.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)It seems a lot of people surrounding the torture the US government committed are more worried about appearances rather than the actual war crimes, so you'd think Haspel getting a promotion would be seen as a bad thing.
But watching the hearing, and from things said over the years, a lot of people enjoy pretending torture isn't torture. So..how could she be guilty of it?
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)LMAO
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)what I've said since Shrub was president. America doesn't really care that the government committed war crimes. If it did, those war criminals would be in prison and not walking about free and they for damn sure wouldn't be up for promotion.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Even after the examples of Nixon and Reagan-Bush, where crimes went unpunished because of a misguided desire to "move forward," the Obama administration quickly moved to look forward to the future in 2009. So, we get to see the likes of Haspel, Bolton, Yoo, and Rice creep back into the political scene when every one of them should be behind bars.
It's disgusting, demoralizing, and unworthy of a nation that styles itself as a bastion of freedom and liberty.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)It set our country back by allowing them to get away with it, and now were saddled with Trump, who thinks he can do anything.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)And people did die from torture.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)and, golly gee, we learned lessons on what not to do because, you know, prior to that moment in time, no one knew torture was illegal and inhumane.
leftstreet
(36,102 posts)She makes me sick
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)And pretending that all this was long ago as to not really matter anymore.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)and illegal.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)It's funny because of all the emphasis being put on transparency and trust.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Claims fear the tapes would be leaked. Wants us to know she wasn't on the tapes. Wanted to adhere to the law but wanted to protect the guilty (she said the agents involved in the torture)
Claims there was no legal requirement to retain the tapes. ( the General Counsel of the CIA, Scott W. Muller, advised the CIA director, George Tenet, to not destroy the tapes on the CIA's authority..which goes against what she is claiming - and there was also a court order saying to NOT destroy the tapes, as well as the WHY saying not to destroy the tapes)
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Now she is saying they would comply to the decision the US made to not torture even though she did torture when it was already illegal.
The CAT was under Reagan, so....she lies.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Wanna bet? Some of us actually do have a strong moral compass.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)CrispyQ
(36,437 posts)It's a nightmare. He should be polling at 12%, not hovering at 40.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)He shouldn't be in the oval and she should be in prison.
malaise
(268,844 posts)I just want to know who approves her in the end
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)it might be wise to pay them some attention.
gademocrat7
(10,649 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)She was in charge.
Said she'd answer in closed session. (Snort)
madaboutharry
(40,199 posts)She is one of those people who has the ability to put parts of herself in little boxes so that she can convince herself that she isn't responsible for her own behavior and decisions.
People like her are the people who cause pain and misery in the world.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Because, you know, (again) no one knew before they tortured that torture was illegal, wrong, and bad.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)even though all our laws said otherwise.
She was being asked if she thought (at the time) if torture should be continued (once she too over a black site (torture site) - and she won't answer directly with a yes or no.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I've heard all my life that folks, particularly in the military, are not required to obey illegal orders. But how is someone supposed to determine an order is illegal? In the heat of a battle, if the commanding officer tells an underling to blow up a building full of civilians and there's a very good strategic reason for doing so, do you think the corporal manning the howitzer is going to say, "Sir, with all due respect, that would be a war crime"? Not on your nelly. But you know who's going to stand for the court martial when the shooting is over.
Here we have a big shot like Haspel torturing prisoners because someone somewhere (and we're not allowed to know who that was because something, something classified, something national security) told her torture was legal. Was she duty bound to disobey an illegal order? If some low-level military person is supposed to know, why isn't Haspel?
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Your point is dead on.
One of the reasons they went for the "few bad apples" BS.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)she was "read into it" when taking over a black site then how can she be responsible.
And you can bet your sweet bippy Haspel is letting her.
Haspel won't "judge in hindsight".
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)fear, so you can't judge us or blame us...or blame anyone who tortured people.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)decided to not do it anymore because torture is bad so they stopped.
Because - once again - no one knew torture was illegal before Bush (and, in point of fact, was STILL illegal under Bush).
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)short memories - that manual was changed under Bush to allow techniques that are torture under the Geneva Conventions, Article 3.
In the Army Field Manual, see Appendix M. Don't have to believe me - research it yourself.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)And this hearing is a farce. All a farce.
Rule of law - a farce
No one is above the law - a farce
America as a champion of human rights - a farce
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)which lets you know truth isn't a part of this hearing.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Being asked about all those who told them not to destroy the tapes...she can't recall.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)for Haspel and her choosing to torture people.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Fear, fear, fear!
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Cotton is a boll weevil.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)As in, this person liked Clinton and they said you didn't do anything wrong...so if you did, it's somehow Clinton's fault?
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)away with it.
What does that say about American values?
They got away with torture.
Bluepinky
(2,268 posts)I like Kamala Harriss questions.
Direct and demands a yes or no answer.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Haspel goes on to say she believes in the ("now" ) higher standards we hold ourselves to - completely ignoring that the US has for years and years made torture illegal.
Those standards were already in place when she chose to torture - she simply chose to ignore them.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)and that 911 is forgotten.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)LMAO
Asking if Trump asked for loyalty.
Haspel claims her loyalty is to the Constitution.
mia
(8,360 posts)Roughly, I might add.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Claims she would never support the inhumane treatment of CIA personnel.
And she sees no correlation between her waterboarding/torturing al-Nashiri and a CIA agent being tortured.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Because we're all too fucking stupid to remember, I guess.
Obvious setup for Haspel to justify torture...which she is doing.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)I won't be apologizing for that.
And fuck anyone entertaining the notion that I should apologize.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)LMAO
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)saying, Haspel shouldn't be held accountable for a small piece of agency history.
For those with short memories, the war on terror wasn't the first time the CIA tortured people.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)Love that transparency they were bragging about earlier!
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)quartz007
(1,216 posts)she gets confirmed. Sen Paul will be the only republican to vote no. Sen McCain is too sick to vote.
Solly Mack
(90,761 posts)America has a sickness.