General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSome Folks Said - 'All We Need Is More Progressive Candidates'
Well, there were a bunch of those running in the primaries this past Tuesday. They were supported by the people who told us that if we ran true progressives we'd be sure to win.
Guess what? Every last one of those progressive candidates lost. Every candidate who was endorsed by Our Revolution, the best known alternative progressive organization, lost. None of them will be on the November ballot.
Here's my idea: Let's put our energy and efforts into a massive GOTV campaign for the November General Election. Let's elect the Democrats who win their primaries and take back majority control of the House, Senate and state legislatures. Let's argue about who is more progressive than whom after we accomplish that crucial goal.
How does that sound?
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)MineralMan
(146,285 posts)Wwcd
(6,288 posts)MineralMan
(146,285 posts)But, I'm an old fogey. Maybe all that work on election GOTV efforts was a waste of time. I don't think so, though.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)MineralMan
(146,285 posts)It's just that we desperately need to win in November. If we don't, we may not get another chance. Just saying...
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)We can talk about the importance of GOTV without implying that progressive = loser/bad/negative.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)Oh, well...
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)And it's completely unnecessary. Of course GOTV for Democrats is hugely important. There's no need to frame the discussion the way you did, though.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)If these candidates are so popular, then why are these candidates not winning?
I will be supporting the Democratic candidates who are the ballot in November
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Gothmog
(145,107 posts)Have you seen any of Nina turner's comments lately?
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I don't give a rip what Nina Turner says. I'm certainly not going to cede the term "progressive" just because Nina Turner wants me to. Are you? Why give Nina Turner exactly what she wants? Why encourage the narrative that says there are "progressive" Democrats and then there are "mainstream" Democrats?
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)That group is hurting the term progressive. What are you going to do about it?
hueymahl
(2,488 posts)That, to me, was why it was framed that way, despite the denials.
The rest of the OP's points are valid.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)The OP points out that voters are not voting for these candidates. The candidates dndorsed by Our Revolution have bot been winning. As a party, we need to support the candidates who are the ballot in November
I will be in the war room of the local county Democratic party on the day of the Texas Democratic primary runoff to help protect the vote.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Gothmog
(145,107 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)But I won't.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)I was a Clinton delegate to the National Convention. We had a great whipping infrastructure and so I knew before it was reported on MSNBC that Nina would not be speaking. My son called me and I told him about the warning that I had received from my whip twenty minutes earlier.
I also knew that the Sanders delegates were going to boo John Lewis twenty or so minutes before this planned stunt occurred
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)There are "progressive" Dems and there are mainstream or establishment Dems. It's a bullshit narrative, yet so many of the very people criticizing Turner are unwittingly playing into her hands.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)I did not like Turner at the national convention and locally the Our Revolution attacked a very progressive candidate because he was Asian and not "one of us." Luckily the Our Revolution endorsed candidate lost. I have also donated to two candidates who are running against Our Revolution endorsed candidates. I really like Lizzie Fletcher and a Dallas lawyer running against Pete Sessions.
I had fun taking the candidate who was attacked by the Our Revolution group to the local Democratic Lawyers Association two mnths in a row. I enjoy watching a good Democratic candidate get to work a room full of Democratic lawyers.
George II
(67,782 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)"Some Folks Said - 'All We Need Is More Progressive Candidates'
Well, there were a bunch of those running in the primaries this past Tuesday. They were supported by the people who told us that if we ran true progressives we'd be sure to win.
Guess what? Every last one of those progressive candidates lost."
Now, how does that not associate "progressive" with loser? How does that not give "progressive" a negative connotation?
Our Revolution does not own the term "progressive."
George II
(67,782 posts)....not "progressives". And unless I missed it nowhere does he even use the words "bad" or "negative".
Note, he refers to those who lost as "those progressives", candidates endorsed by Our Revolution - not any or all progressives.
Some progressives won this week, but none were endorsed by Our Revolution.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)One doesn't have to use the word "negative" to give something a negative connotation. In fact, that's the point of connotations or implications.
George II
(67,782 posts)....based on recent results, progressives can and do win, but if you check Our Revolution's own website, it appears that their endorsed candidates for the most part lost their elections. Of sixteen candidates on their site in 2018, two won and fourteen lost. This isn't my data, this is directly from their website:
https://ourrevolution.com/results/
Harvey Epstein
New York
Election: April 24, 2018
State Assembly, District 74
WON
Brian Pine
Vermont
Election: March 6, 2018
City Council, Ward 3
WON
Sue Spicer
Indiana
Election: May 8, 2018
U.S. House of Representatives, 7th District
LOST
Dennis Kucinich
Ohio
Election: May 8, 2018
Governor
LOST
Kyle Earley
Ohio
Election: May 8, 2018
State Representative, District 10
LOST
Yvonka Hall
Ohio
Election: May 8, 2018
State Representative District 12
LOST
Steve Holecko
Ohio
Election: May 8, 2018
State Representative, District 14
LOST
Mary Ann Claytor
West Virginia
Election: May 8, 2018
State Senate, District 17
LOST
Lizette Escobedo
California
Election: April 10, 2018
Whittier City Council
LOST
Steve Dunwoody
California
Election: April 3, 2018
Assembly District 54
LOST
Daniel Biss
Illinois
Election: March 20, 2018
Governor
LOST
Marie Newman
Illinois
Election: March 20, 2018
US Representative, 3rd District
LOST
Derrick Crowe
Texas
Election: March 6, 2018
US Representative, 21st District
LOST
Carina Driscoll
Vermont
Election: March 6, 2018
Mayor of Burlington
LOST
Brianna Westbrook
Arizona
Election: Feb. 27, 2018
U.S. House of Representatives, District 8
LOST
Tim Burns
Wisconsin
Election: Feb. 20, 2018
State Supreme Court
LOST
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Say "Our Revolution" candidates when that's what is meant.
George II
(67,782 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I am also a realist. People that are beyond a certain political line CAN'T win in some parts of the country, whereas a more moderate democrat can.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I don't see the sense in trying to turn somone's realism and honesty into some sort of "attack" or smear. Why so overwrought? Facts are facts. We need the numbers. We need a majority. What do you have against that? What good purpose does it serve to twist a positive message into something that's negative?
ck4829
(35,042 posts)There are people here in this country I am sure would rather see their children dead than identify as liberals or progressives.
We've got to face that hard reality, I think that's why Democrats are so baffled, it seems surreal, like something out of a dystopian novel. Like, it can't be possible, right? But no, it is.
I don't have high hopes for the political situation of the US anymore. We could get Democratic majorities in the House and Senate tomorrow, and it won't reverse the toxicity of politics today and the normalization of delusions, psychosis, and outright sociopathy just to "own the libs" and other extreme actions just to prevent us from getting a seat at the table.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)Just less practical; more idealistic; and they don't play well with others.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)That's what they keep saying...
We need to win, not lose. So, I guess there's something to learn here.
dawg
(10,624 posts)Either their "progressive" policy positions just got rejected by primary voters, or else maybe it was just them, personally, who got passed over.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)part of the equation. Otherwise, what's the point?
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)He's a firebrand - a passionate speaker.
But I'm supporting the other candidate, not because I like him more than Salazar (though I do) but because I think he is more electable.
Colorado MUST maintain Democratic party control over the offices of Governor, Attorney General, and Treasurer.
AND, we've GOT to get rid of the Republican Secretary of State - he actually sent all our names to the Trump Administration over numerous objections. We have a really good young, fiery candidate for this office - an actual voter rights attorney!
Pretty exciting lineup, I'd say, and Dems have decent candidates all the way down the line. Coffman may well lose his seat this time, the snake. Buck...well, I'm not holding my breath, but there are two good candidates facing off in the primary against him.
Gardner, unfortunately, is not up for reelection until 2020.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)lark
(23,091 posts)Winning and playing well with others is very important and too many at OR are just purists. Purists helped get drumpf elected with their votes for Stein and will continue until they decide that survival is more important than perfection.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)That's part of the problem. A big part.
lark
(23,091 posts)i'm sure Vlad loves Susan Sarandon almost as much as Stein.
JI7
(89,244 posts)11cents
(1,777 posts)There's no reason to think of this organization as anything but ratfuckers and Putin pawns. I mean -- promoting Dennis Kucinich, for god's sake.
I don't know that Bernie Sanders bears any responsibility for what "Our Revolution" is up to at this point. But if that's the case it's incumbent upon him to cut ties, because they're acting in his name.
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)messaging is magic? That as soon as a progressive runs that person wins? That person still needs to reach people. That person still needs to be known. That takes time and money. The question shouldn't be did these candidates win, it should be did they have more presence than they would have had they not been endorsed by Our Revolution? Did they get more votes than they would have?
Do you have an answer to those questions?
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)Again, Sanders' whole campaign was based on a magical voter revolution where millions or billions or trillions of new voters would rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable and force the GOP to adopt these policies. There has been no magical voter revolution earlier and the defeat of so many Our Revolution candidates show that this magical voter revolution has not yet occurred
Again Sanders was clear that his policies could not be adopted without a magical voter revolution. I can cite his exact quotes again in you want. The defeat of so many Our Revolution candidates in Democratic primaries tell me that the magical messaging is not working and there will be no magical voter revolution.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)to promote one person and his ideas. We need more diversity.
Great thread.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)posted in GD about him and it wont ever stop.
pwb
(11,259 posts)Progressive and liberal are seen as more of the fringe of the Democratic Party that get a lot of bad press from talk radio and fox types. Right wingers have more or less made both swear words. I love both liberals and progressives but I think they need to identify more as democrats if they want to win. Unite and win! Call yourselves Democrats.
Fat ass Rush Limbaugh made liberal and progressive four letter words long ago.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and opportunity for the forces against us, though, is political vocabulary. You bet Republicans of mostly made liberal and progressive into swear words.
The Democratic Party's mainstream, and most of the rest, is overwhelmingly liberal and progressive in ideology. Our liberal founding fathers mostly won out over conservative founders of that day, which is how our nation was formed as a liberal democracy.
Yet because of propagandizing, the right has defined both terms negatively, always but especially ever since the Gingrich days of "radical liberal Democrats."
At the same time, a dissident left group tries to differentiate itself iby casting mainstream Democrats as corporatist quasi conservatives and themselves as America's only true progressives. In the process offending many with their rejection of all whose opinions differ even slightly, intolerant obstruction often coming across as fringie/radical and even extremist. The right, of course, pushes those behaviors, and others from the genuinely extreme left, few as those are, as representative of liberalism and progressivism.
So both have projected the wrong idea of what liberals and progressives are, inflicting great damage.
After all, progressive means using the power of government to tackle big problems and create advances that individuals and business cannot, or will not. In this era, the Republican Party believes government progressivism is harmful and wants to leave all to individuals, private groups and business.
And every progressive advance America has ever had was created by liberals. Radical ideas such as unemployment insurance and universal healthcare are a very different thing from radical personality that rejects compromise and cooperation. There is nothing liberal about that.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)I do not care about the progressive label
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)majorities we would need to implement a liberal agenda.
peggysue2
(10,828 posts)Win first, then we get to yowl like barn cats over the best way forward. But at the moment, as Dems we have no power to speak of beyond trying our best to pinch some of the Trumpsters worst instincts.
We win in November? We can neuter The Donald and his enablers, start repairing the damage, and then lean into a 2020 win for the White House.
Otherwise we fall off the cliff as a country. It's that serious.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)I've always been down with that.
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)For shame, MM.
The Bernie Bros will never relent, not even at the end of the world (which may happen soon for lack of pragmatism).
Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)I suppose I could give an opinion about why they all lost, but it wont matter, my friend, to the people who are going to NEVER STOP bashing mainstream Democrats like Kamala Harris, Kennedy's, etc.
The bashing and minimizing of their value will continue unabated.
pnwmom
(108,973 posts)Based on her voting record, Progressive Punch says she's the #1 most liberal member of the Senate.
http://www.progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
Hekate
(90,637 posts)aikoaiko
(34,165 posts)Let Democracy work its magic.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)That's the issue.
sheshe2
(83,729 posts)MineralMan
(146,285 posts)mwooldri
(10,302 posts)After the primary... GOTV on general election day.
America has this weird primary process. Elsewhere the local political parties choose from within, with their most active, dues-paying members. But then it is easier to get on the ballot elsewhere too. It would be interesting to see a race where people can choose between Democratic Party and Republican Party, but also between Green, Monster Raving Loony, Save our Healthcare, or even for Sister X, Nun of the Above. That, along with single transferrable vote.
But back on topic... doesn't matter who won the primary election. Get out and vote the Democratic Party candidate into office.
This time, your life may depend on it.
DinahMoeHum
(21,783 posts)Don't sit home and pout because your candidate did not get past the primary.
And while we're at it, encourage those candidates to seek other offices, more local offices.
Often, those offices offer greater impact among the constituents.
It all starts at the local level.
And the more progressives you can get into the rank-and-file of the Democratic Party, the more the state and national Democratic orgs will take notice and look at things your way.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)There are a couple of Our Revolution endorsed candidates in the run offs. Luckily in my county the Our Revolution candidate did not make the run off and Our Revolution is not endorsing anyone in this run off. The poor babies at Our Revolution could not come to endorse an Asian candidate who is not "one of us" and is one of "them" and now the other candidate is a major Clinton bundler/Hillraiser who is now claiming to be Muslim. This will be a fun run off
BTW, I had fun. I have taken Sri Preston Kulkarni to the local Democratic Lawyers Association. I truly enjoyed watching a congressiona candidate work a room full of Democratic lawyers
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Said, on one side
Grab em by the midterms
The other side
Vote like your life depends on it
Vote for a Democrat, were all basically on the same page. We can sort through discrepancies after we have control otherwise its futile whichever way we swing....
mcar
(42,300 posts)I'm in!
Cha
(297,123 posts)Gothmog
(145,107 posts)I have the afternoon shifts on Primary day in the local county war room for voter protection. Even though it is a primary, we will have a fully staffed war room
Cha
(297,123 posts)Mahalo
calimary
(81,199 posts)The label Progressive seems to be a turn-off. I dont know why and I dont think it should be. Maybe too many voters - a critical mass - arent comfortable with change that they perceive as too radical or too big a step or too extreme a step? Or theyre alienated by Bernie? Or they somehow wrongly embrace the misbegotten assumption that progressive = socialist = Communist?
I do not know.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Thank you, MM. We need to, we MUST, take at least the House, hopefully the Senate, and several Governorships, as well as local Congressional elections.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)We need to stuff Washington full of Democrats. That's mission number one through one hundred.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)idahoblue
(377 posts)We need democrats who can win in their district. No litmus test. Any democrat is better than a repig, a Democrat who votes progressive half the time is better than a repig who never votes for our values.
MineralMan
(146,285 posts)we cut our own throats. I don't like Manchin or Lipinski, for example. I like their Republican opponents much less, though. I'm not going to attack any Democrat who wins a primary, until after the general election. That's a rule for me. I support Democrats in general elections. No exceptions. We need to win as many races as possible.
jes06c
(114 posts)I've heard some Sanders supporters brag about refusing to vote for Clinton, even if it meant a Trump presidency.
It's like a football coach bragging that he never punts or kicks a field goal on fourth down, even if it costs him the game.
CrispyQ
(36,453 posts)I guess we're okay with that, now, too.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)We need to GOTV and work to elect the democrats who are the ballot
Great post
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)The Dem Party is backing independents in outlying places, like Alaska, where the indies have a good chance of winning, and no one with a "D" by his/her name has a chance of winning, and the Indies are reasonable in their ideologies. The idea being to WIN against the GOP. To at least get some people in office who will side with the Dems at least some of the time.
This is at all levels: local, state, national.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)and we can also encourage Democratic candidates to support progressive policies.
I think that having progressive policies just might help Democratic candidates get out the vote.
Not sure what your point is, here. that progressives shouldn't run in primaries? that they shouldn't be supported?
that's up to their constituencies to decide. And when that process is over, we GOTV and crush the traitors.
Gothmog
(145,107 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The name progressive carries way too much baggage. Too many young Democrats think it is a recent term that came about to oppose centrist Democrats.
But it has a 100 year old spotty history.
And too often today it is more about support for a person rather than a defined set of positions.
And I will never stop reminding people on DU that 2 years ago I watched with my own eyes as the elite of the progressive movement booed John Lewis at the Democratic convention. How anyone can self identify with people who do shit like that boggles my mind.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)The only thing that can save America is a massive dem blue wave in the midterms.
LiberalFighter
(50,865 posts)But the reality is that is too much for people. The key imo is first to elect as many Democrats as possible and second to be more active AFTER the elections. Nudging them by staying in contact with elected Democrats and pushing for more progressive action.
still_one
(92,122 posts)Howard Deans fifty state strategy understood this
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,669 posts)Like it or not, some districts will support progressive candidates; some will not. My congressman, Keith Ellison (MN CD-5), could not possibly get elected in MN CD-7, Colin Peterson's district. Colin Peterson drives me nuts because he so often takes positions that are barely distinguishable from Republican. But the 7th CD is rural and conservative, and could easily be taken by an actual GOPer if Peterson starts to drift left. Conversely, Peterson would have a tough time in CD-5, which Ellison has been winning easily every time. Usually I don't even know the name of the GOPer running against him. So although I don't like Peterson, he counts as a Democrat for the purpose of who has the majority in committees and overall, and that's important.
I agree with MM. At this point the goal has to be electing enough Democrats of all stripes to acquire as much power and control in Congress in possible. This isn't a good time to quibble over ideological purity.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,865 posts)All of the energy shouldn't be just at the top level. There are township, county, and other local elections that need help. Getting Democrats elected there creates a minor league of sort collection of Democrats.
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)pandr32
(11,577 posts)JI7
(89,244 posts)Took money from questionable groups and defends trump.
And refuses to show his taxes.
The actual progressive candidate won the nomination there.
KPN
(15,642 posts)read anything by anyone about running true progressives would guarantee victory. To me, I think the basic statement has been that labor, economic justice need to be stronger pieces of our party's overall message. And seems pretty clear to me that is happening and happened during these primaries.
Overall though, I agree, we need to GOTV. Nothing wrong with debate within the party during primaries, but Dems need to get behind the nominee 100% once the primary is over.
MarkEzra
(27 posts)CA 45 I'm voting (today by mail) for Dave Min. I'm not voting for Dave because he is endorsed by the CA Dem's. I'm voting for him because he has the BEST shot at winning. He has a great law and business background and a fire in his belly to beat Mimi.
The Republican incumbent, Mimi Walters, is an early Trumpist who now keeps a very low profile. It will not be easy to unseat her.
There are two progressive Dems running alongside Dave min. I'm sure they are both qualified and talented people. Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren support one. The other worked for President Obama. So talented and experienced. I pledge to work for whomever becomes the Democratic nominee. I won't turn my back and tut, tut... I didn't get my way, as so many feel the burners did. I'll work hard for the candidate.
I ask Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and all progressives in CA45 to work just as hard as I will if Dave gets the call. PLEASE!
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)Left of Center Progressives are the life blood of democracy, imo.
It is a challenge when trying to understand why my fellow Americans are trying to destroy the foundation of freedom by heading willingly into slavery. So F'em and feed them a bit of revenge served cold , GOTV, . As always, just my opinion.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)If everyone started rallying around the candidates they have, instead of the ones they tell themselves they want...what would that lead to??