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Thu May 17, 2018, 10:14 PM

Lecia Michelle: "If you want to call me divisive because I talk about race, I'm here for all of it."

"But if I have to accept that label, so do white people."
https://medium.com/LeciaMichelle/if-you-want-to-call-me-divisive-because-i-talk-about-race-im-here-for-all-of-it-55822d459f3a

Just so we’re on the same page, let’s define the word. This is according to Cambridge English Dictionary:

Divisive: tending to cause disagreements that separate people into opposing groups.

Yeah, that’s probably me. So from now on, when I talk to white people about race, I’m going to separate them into two groups. The first group will consist of white people who sincerely want to join the fight against racism and oppression. I’ll call them “potential allies.” The second group, I’m going to call “White people who ain’t shit.” To help you figure out which group you’re in, if you hear black folks talking about racism and you call them “divisive,” “angry” or “racist,” then you ain’t shit.
...
But here’s the deal. If I have to embrace that label, then white people, you do too. Let’s talk about that, shall we?

If a black person is talking about her experience with racism and your immediate response is to spew something that derails the conversation and centers it on both yourself and how we all need to come together as people and not talk about race, then congratulations. You’re divisive. Why, you ask? Because when black people discuss the violent nature of racism and how it personally affects us, we’re opening ourselves up and being vulnerable so that we can try to enact real change. We share our stories so that you, as a white person, can understand what we encounter in this country. We hope that you then join us in taking up the mantle of racial justice so that we can all fight against racism and white supremacy. If your answer to this is to dismiss our experiences, then you are divisive. And racist.
...
If a black man says he was pulled over for “driving while black” and your response is anything vaguely similar to “not everything is about race,” then you’re divisive. For context, I don’t know one black man who hasn’t experienced being pulled over because they fit the description of the suspect or they drive a nice car that police assume they stole — or a myriad of any other racist reasons. Do white men experience the same thing? Of course not. Why do white people think we share these stories? For attention? No. We share them for change.

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Reply Lecia Michelle: "If you want to call me divisive because I talk about race, I'm here for all of it." (Original post)
EffieBlack May 2018 OP
WhiskeyGrinder May 2018 #1
Trust Buster May 2018 #2
EffieBlack May 2018 #3
jaysunb May 2018 #7
Trust Buster May 2018 #10
EffieBlack May 2018 #13
Trust Buster May 2018 #16
EffieBlack May 2018 #17
George II May 2018 #31
flibbitygiblets May 2018 #35
Scruffy1 May 2018 #43
canuckledragger May 2018 #36
CreekDog May 2018 #40
tonedevil May 2018 #18
Trust Buster May 2018 #20
tonedevil May 2018 #21
Empowerer May 2018 #28
George II May 2018 #32
Scruffy1 May 2018 #45
tonedevil May 2018 #46
ProudLib72 May 2018 #4
brush May 2018 #6
Trust Buster May 2018 #12
tonedevil May 2018 #19
Empowerer May 2018 #41
kcr May 2018 #50
hatrack May 2018 #51
MineralMan May 2018 #57
ChubbyStar May 2018 #11
Trust Buster May 2018 #15
George II May 2018 #30
EffieBlack May 2018 #39
betsuni May 2018 #37
OneGrassRoot May 2018 #42
brer cat May 2018 #56
malaise May 2018 #47
Tipperary May 2018 #49
betsuni May 2018 #52
Empowerer May 2018 #5
MaryMagdaline May 2018 #8
tblue37 May 2018 #9
EffieBlack May 2018 #14
tblue37 May 2018 #22
betsuni May 2018 #23
EffieBlack May 2018 #25
sharedvalues May 2018 #24
EffieBlack May 2018 #26
pnwmom May 2018 #27
Caliman73 May 2018 #29
ProudLib72 May 2018 #34
SunSeeker May 2018 #33
radical noodle May 2018 #38
OneGrassRoot May 2018 #44
Fresh_Start May 2018 #48
JustAnotherGen May 2018 #53
Tom Rinaldo May 2018 #54
EffieBlack May 2018 #55

Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:15 PM

1. K&R.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:17 PM

2. More taunting and divisiveness. How lovely. As if your last 10 threads weren't enouigh.

 

Hooray for you.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:23 PM

3. Exhibit A right here

Thank you.

You can sit down now.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:28 PM

7. Take two seats !! LOL n/t

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #3)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:35 PM

10. You are being abusive. You need to stop.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #10)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:37 PM

13. Perhaps you should just put me on ignore

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #13)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:40 PM

16. Perhaps your relentless taunting is putting yourself on "ignore".

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #16)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:40 PM

17. Whatever

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #16)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:46 PM

31. Nope. Actually many here enjoy Effie's OPs, and not many of us consider it "taunting".

Here's a suggestion - introspective reflection.

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Response to George II (Reply #31)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:58 PM

35. +1. I'm with Effie.

Just listen to the message. You might learn something.

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #35)

Fri May 18, 2018, 01:18 AM

43. Me too.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #16)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:11 AM

36. You aint shit.

And are very transparent in your false outrage.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #16)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:56 AM

40. they aren't being abusive, there's not one statement there that's abusive

they are talking about race and you consider it abuse to talk about race.

this is really simple -you are just completely wrong.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #10)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:41 PM

18. You have come into this thread...

looking for a fight and you think anyone should take your crap about being abusive. You should stay away from these conversations because you are the problem.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #18)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:42 PM

20. I am free to go wherever I choose. I follow TOS rules.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #20)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:48 PM

21. That doesn't change the fact...

you came here to bully EffieBlack and then try to accuse her of being abusive. It's bullshit and a tired shtick.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #21)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:25 PM

28. There seems to be a concerted effort to swarm Effie wherever she goes

A sure sign she’s getting under people’s skin.

It sure is fun to watch them fall on their faces whenever they try to get the best of her, though. Especially when they don’t realize they keep proving exactly what she’s describing.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #20)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:46 PM

32. Yes you are, but you're not free to insult others here.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #18)

Fri May 18, 2018, 01:19 AM

45. I'm with you.

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Response to Scruffy1 (Reply #45)

Fri May 18, 2018, 01:44 AM

46. Blind Willie McTell?

I'm with you.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:24 PM

4. IKR

Not everything is about race!


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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:26 PM

6. Careful, you're on thin ice.

Ya don't wanna get categorized.

"The second group, I’m going to call “White people who ain’t shit.” To help you figure out which group you’re in, if you hear black folks talking about racism and you call them “divisive,” “angry” or “racist,” then you ain’t shit."

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Response to brush (Reply #6)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:37 PM

12. Sad the DU has come to this. I am thinking about moving on.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #12)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:41 PM

19. For the best. /nt

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #12)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:59 AM

41. Promise?

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #12)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:32 AM

50. Good idea n/t

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #12)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:33 AM

51. Cue the Countess!

?itemid=5678266

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #12)

Fri May 18, 2018, 02:34 PM

57. Bye, then...

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:36 PM

11. There is always ignore and trash thread if you are so inclined

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Response to ChubbyStar (Reply #11)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:38 PM

15. I have never used "ignore" before. That is a possible solution. Thanks.

 

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:43 PM

30. That's "taunting"? Hah! As for the last 10 threads, who's counting?





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Response to George II (Reply #30)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:21 AM

39. Boo!



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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:15 AM

37. "taunting"

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 01:14 AM

42. What you and a few others don't seem to get...

is that you prove the point, EVERY DAMN TIME.

The majority of DUers see these posts as informative.

A certain contingent see them as attacks and this response is the definition of White Fragility. I'm sure your head wants to explode from those two words, but you REALLY should step back and try to see this from a different perspective and how you are indeed exhibiting white fragility and defensiveness and victimhood...every time.

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #42)

Fri May 18, 2018, 02:30 PM

56. +1000 nt

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 04:58 AM

47. But he's right

My brother has been pulled over several times for driving a nice car

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #2)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:30 AM

49. It has become obvious, has it not?

 

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Response to Tipperary (Reply #49)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:42 AM

52. Ney, nonny no!

Men are fools that wish to die!
is't not fine to dance and sing
When the bells of death do ring?
Is't not fine to swim in wine,
And turn upon the toe,
And sing Hey, nonny no!
When the winds blow and the seas flow?
Hey, nonny no!

It is obvious.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:26 PM

5. K&R

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:29 PM

8. K&R

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:32 PM

9. You need to remove the @ before the author's name to get a link to the article rather

than to the Medium homepage:

https://medium.com/LeciaMichelle/if-you-want-to-call-me-divisive-because-i-talk-about-race-im-here-for-all-of-it-55822d459f3a

vs.

https://medium.com/@LeciaMichelle/if-you-want-to-call-me-divisive-because-i-talk-about-race-im-here-for-all-of-it-55822d459f3a

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Response to tblue37 (Reply #9)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:38 PM

14. Thanks -

I cut and pasted from the link on the page and couldn't figure out why the link came out like this!

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #14)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:49 PM

22. That *always* happens with Medium links. Twitter links also need tweaking if they are on a

mobile device--you have to delete the "mobile." from the URL to get the actual tweet to show.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:52 PM

23. I just saw something about how divisiveness will break DU and damage America: dramatic!

Because one should only speak of Teh Oligarchy? I do not know. One minute complaining about eco chambers and cheerleading and the next of dividing and breaking things.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #23)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:55 PM

25. Apparently we're only supposed to discuss things that meet the approval of certain people - and only

in the language and tone that they approve of and doesn't make them uncomfortable in any way.

But otherwise, we need to tear everything down, speak truth to power and have no fear.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:54 PM

24. Philando Castile: Horrible. But Trump is worse than any Dem

If we turn the Democratic Party into a circular firing squad, we put Republicans in office.

If we support Ralph Nader and attack Gore instead of Bush, if we support Jill Stein and attack Hillary instead of Trump, if we attack liberal progressives instead of Republicans——

That is a recipe for LOSING. That is a recipe for black people and Hispanics being held down by Republicans.


If Lecia Michelle thinks her allies are Republicans (as demonstrated by attacking progressives) or thinks she can get anything done politically by attacking both Republicans and Democrats she’s pushing the country towards disaster.

Right now, white progressives and black progressives ARE ALLIES.

Once ANYONE- white or black or any other race - attacks progressives, they are no longer my ally. They are no longer OUR allies.

American values include helping all people and making sure all people have a fair shake in life. If Lecia Michelle wants to reject that, she is dividing progressives. That is the definition of divisive. And she is hurting her own cause. We can tell her right now that she is helping Republicans. And Republicans are not going to give her anything she wants.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #24)

Thu May 17, 2018, 10:56 PM

26. Whoosh!

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #24)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:20 PM

27. The writer wasn't attacking progressives. The writer was speaking out about

the reality of racism and the importance of everyone recognizing it. No one -- but especially allies -- should be discounting or minimizing it.

It is possible -- and critical -- that, at the same time, we all fight against Trumpism AND racism. And we're not fighting racism if we say that it's divisive to even talk about it.

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Response to sharedvalues (Reply #24)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:32 PM

29. OR....This

Instead of White people being defensive about the realities of racism and systematic discrimination which has been a part of this country since its inception, they can accept and understand the experiences of people of color. When laws are written to address racial injustice or gender bias, everyone in society benefits. When laws are written only focusing on economic injustice, they can still be applied unequally to women and people of color.

Think back to the beginnings of the Labor movement. Unions were great, but they were discriminatory and Blacks and Latinos were regularly prohibited from working or joining Unions. Similarly, the New Deal was a great progressive milestone, but Black people were routinely discriminated against in terms of receiving benefits like Social Security and other progressive reforms.

Progressives of all colors should be on the line screaming about disparate treatment of people of color and women. Race should not be divisive, but will continue to be so until White people understand and accept that discrimination is baked into the system and must be taken out.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #29)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:55 PM

34. Apparently, this is asking too much

Instead of White people being defensive about the realities of racism and systematic discrimination which has been a part of this country since its inception, they can accept and understand the experiences of people of color.


Makes some people uncomfortable. Discomfort implies the conversation must be divisive.

I just don't get it. I read the OP and thought it was nothing more than common sense. I must be broken and divisive by nature.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu May 17, 2018, 11:54 PM

33. K & R

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 12:16 AM

38. Effie, you inspire me

to do better. It's disappointing that there are some on DU who are so defensive about this. Equality and justice is what the Democratic Party is all about. We keep moving forward and there's no turning back now. It has to happen for everyone or it happens for no one.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 01:18 AM

44. K&R and I echo the appreciative comments above n/t

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:28 AM

48. I welcome the discussion. We cannot solve problems that we cannot discuss.

I have always seen the discrimination and lack of respect for minorities.


We have to get better.


Thank you, Effie for being willing to bare your soul.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:45 AM

53. I love this . . .



a black person is talking about her experience with racism and your immediate response is to spew something that derails the conversation and centers it on both yourself and how we all need to come together as people and not talk about race, then congratulations. You’re divisive.


I think the only thing missing from this article is the 'but what aboutism'.


Both the concept in the OP and the 'but what aboutism' are ALMOST always about a chip on the shoulder.

It's like some people didn't get enough love in their childhood or something.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri May 18, 2018, 08:58 AM

54. It is never divisive to acknowledge genuine divides

That is called facing reality. What happens next may or may not become "divisive" in tone, but the truth is not divisive. Solving problems begins by acknowledging their existence. White and Black America (also true for other "minority" communities) frequently have different experiences of day to day reality. Some differences can be celebrated as "cultural diversity", but others involve hardships often invisible to those in the majority but ever real and present to those in a minority. Silence will not bridge that divide.

You asked in a different OP how one defines "divisive" in practice. Divisive is an effort to break up prevailing unity. It is not pointing out differences that exist. Divisive is an effort to drive wedges between people working together on the same team, causing that team to fail in its endeavors. Decisive is a tactic used to sow discord among people who otherwise show an ability to work together to advance goals beneficial to all. There is no unity, there is no team, if one grouping in that common effort shows indifference to, or clings to willful ignorance of suffering imposed on others whose support they like to assume is theirs to call upon. THAT is disunity. THAT is division.

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Response to Tom Rinaldo (Reply #54)

Fri May 18, 2018, 09:40 AM

55. You are always such an eloquent voice of reason.

Thanks!

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