Vox: The solutions to gun violence aren't a big mystery

[gollygee]

The forum rule is that we are allowed to post articles about gun violence when there's a shooting that gets a ton of media attention.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts

Mass shootings actually make up a small fraction of America’s gun deaths, constituting less than 2 percent of such deaths in 2013. But America does see a lot of these horrific events: According to CNN, “The US makes up less than 5% of the world’s population, but holds 31% of global mass shooters.”

The US also has by far the highest number of privately owned guns in the world. Estimated in 2007, the number of civilian-owned firearms in the US was 88.8 guns per 100 people, meaning there was almost one privately owned gun per American and more than one per American adult. The world’s second-ranked country was Yemen, a quasi-failed state torn by civil war, where there were 54.8 guns per 100 people.

Another way of looking at that: Americans make up less than 5 percent of the world’s population yet own roughly 42 percent of all the world’s privately held firearms.

These two facts — on gun deaths and firearm ownership — are related. The research, compiled by the Harvard School of Public Health’s Injury Control Research Center, is pretty clear: After controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths. Researchers have found this to be true not just with homicides, but also with suicides (which in recent years were around 60 percent of US gun deaths), domestic violence, and even violence against police.

[appalachiablue]

1. K & R Useful info.

[BigmanPigman]

2. It is very simple and easy to comprehend

so why do so many NOT comprehend it? Answer: They CHOOSE not to. Meanwhile they often are not pro-choice for women. I can not tolerate the hypocrisy any longer.

[EX500rider]

3. Not sure those numbers hold up..

....if the US is number one in gun ownership, why are we 48th in suicides (while Japan with no guns is 26th) and 94th in homicides? Shouldn't we be #1 in both?

That sounds like a lot of "controlling for variables".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Hers a chart of gun ownership Vs homicides, not a lot of correlation visible:

[Hoyt]

4. Sounds like a bunch of pro-gun junk.

[EX500rider]

5. Facts are facts....nothing more. nothing less.

[gollygee]

6. You like the statistics from "gunfacts.info" better than the ones from the United Nations. nt

[EX500rider]

9. Feel free to point where the chart is wrong....

[EX500rider]

10. And those facts are sourced from the UN and the small arms survey.

[wasupaloopa]

7. Rules say I can't post what I am thinking

[Hoyt]

8. Chart sure indicates our homicide rate by firearms is greatest. Poster above is correct.

You guys take stats from GunFacts. A white wing -- although they call themselves Libertarian (same thing, racists white wingers).

Here's a photo of the Editor, who claims to be a libertarian (white winger, in other words) --

[EX500rider]

11. Being a Libertarian doesn't mean he is always wrong however.

"White wing"? What does that even mean? Libertarian does not equal racist.

Can't dispute the facts so you go after the source, what else can you do i guess.

[Hoyt]

12. Most libertarians are racists. Is it a surprise to you that a gun-fancier runs a white wing

gun propaganda site?

The chart shows Americans commit more gun homocides per 100K than any other country (I suspect that applies to more wounds, intimidation, etc.). It seems likely it’s because we have more guns per 100K.

You can dispute that any way you wish. But, as a gun-fancier you aren’t being honest with yourself, or you just don’t care.

[EX500rider]

13. That would be wrong also.

US by gun homicides is 16th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[Hoyt]

14. If you want to bring in 3rd World countries. I guess you've convinced yourself

that guns are good no matter what, to protect your gun obsession.

[EX500rider]

15. I didn't say any thing of the sort, not my fault you can't get your facts right.

And 3rd World is a Cold War term no longer applicable.

And there is no evidence poorer countries have higher homicide rates or Indonesia and Palestine wouldn't have lower rates then most European countries.

There is lots of evidence that violent countries have higher rates though.

And if guns drove homicide rates then the US wouldn't be 94th in homicides, we would be 1st.

[Hoyt]

18. Again, if you want to throw in 3rd world countries. Look at advanced countries.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. If you confine your inquiry to advanced industrial nations where do we rank ?

[EX500rider]

20. Well..

Europe has a homicide rate of 3.0 per 100,000 per year.
The US has a homicide rate of 4.8 per 100,000

The countries with bad rates are 60 to 100 per 100,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[gollygee]

22. Only two countries have 60 to 100 per 100,000

And Europe is not a country.

The UK is 0.92, Germany is 0.85, Italy is 0.75. Europe as a continent is thrown off by Russia, whose rate is 11.31.

[EX500rider]

28. Russia is not a European country.

The US has individual states with low rates also.

[gollygee]

38. Take another look at your list and see where Russia is classified. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. And if we further confine our inquiry to gun homicides in advanced industrial nations ?

[EX500rider]

25. So if the rates are similar but the victims are stabbed to death that's OK somehow?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. From personal experience I rather have a miscreant come at me with a knife than a gun.

From personal experience I really like my chances in the former situation. YMMV.


Surprised you didn't bring up a pencil.

[EX500rider]

29. Dead is dead.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. It's the lethality of the weapon. The more lethal the weapon the more damage it can cause.

That seems, well, axiomatic, does it not ?

[Crunchy Frog]

16. Looks like pretty much all the other countries with high homicide rates

Are unstable 3rd world countries.

That chart's a little wonky looking too, as it seems to have more lines than countries listed.

[EX500rider]

17. Which points out there are other driving factors in homicide rates..

....which drive the rate more then number of firearms.

US is 94th in homicide rate.
And I have trouble believing all 93 are unstable countries.

Is Costa Rica unstable? The Bahamas? Caymans? Greenland? Bermuda?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[gollygee]

24. Crime is closely linked to poverty

There's a lot of poverty in those countries. In some of the countries that are big vacation spots, the cost of living is so high that people who live there year-round have a very hard time making ends meet.

[EX500rider]

26. Indonesia and Palestine both have rates below the European rates..

...not exactly rich countries.

[Turbineguy]

34. England and Wales

Have over 44,000 firearm homicides per year?

[EX500rider]

35. That would be El Salvador

[Iggo]

21. If you take our guns, we'll just kill you with knives. So please don't take our guns.

[workinclasszero]

31. I have a good chance of outrunning a knife

I have no chance of outrunning a bullet fired from a semi auto firearm with a 30 round mag.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Or wresting the knife from a potential assailant, not that i recommend it for everyone.

[workinclasszero]

33. Right

But I think my feet would win the argument lol

[Iggo]

36. Striking distance is a thing, too.

[Duppers]

37. K & R

[Stuart G]

39. k and r......nt