Doors on schools that only open outward with a buzz in system for visitors would go a long way

[shraby]

toward making schools safer. Buzzing in would screen any visitors.

It would be a relatively inexpensive way to safeguard schools.

[dembotoz]

1. Never held a door open?

[Ohiogal]

2. I lived in an apartment many years ago with that kind of a system.

Residents would just put a brick there to keep the door ajar so that their friends could come and go.

[Codeine]

19. My company has a warehouse I go to occasionally.

Access is granted by a key card, which I don’t have, so I need to come in the front of the building and be buzzed in by the secretary and then enter through the conference room door.

Except, of course, in reality the door is held permanently ajar by bits of broken pallet and people come and go as they please. This is grown adults — do these people imagine that kids wouldn’t sabotage the state to make access easier?

[Blue_Adept]

3. How many of these suggestions are coming from people that haven't been to a school in years?

Or just can't grasp that a shooter not getting in will just opt to shoot those hanging around outside before the school day, or getting off the bus, or at the bus stop, or on the bus, or any other combination.

Basically, going to school should be like the TSA to get on a plane these days.

[Ohiogal]

6. Really.

Or what's to prevent a shooter from standing outside a large window like when the cafeteria is full and just shooting through the window?

The only answer is GUN CONTROL. PERIOD.

[Blue_Adept]

8. Or planning for a football game or any other host of things

Everyone gets so narrowly focused on hardening the school instead of treating the actual issue. it's like putting on a long sleeved shirt so you don't see the rash on your arms and thinking that fixes the rash.

[Wwcd]

29. + a bazillion. NRA is a global crime syndicate.

[MineralMan]

4. That would work only if they were monitored by security

at that door. Otherwise, the door would get blocked open frequently.

[Decoy of Fenris]

17. Yup. That, and any other external door capable of being blocked/jammed, et cet. n/t

[Glamrock]

5. As would making full body armor the dress code.

But at what point do we stop looking for solutions around the problem and start looking for solutions for the problem.

[shraby]

7. It would be a start until the congresscritters see fit to make a few laws to correct

horrible situation.

My guess if the congress can be flipped in November, that will be when we see some action. And then not until the new congress is sworn in.

It's better than doing nothing.

[exboyfil]

12. There is no way on this planet that you are going to outlaw

.38 revolvers and, if the shotgun was a sporting one and not a tactical one, the shotgun.

[Blue_Adept]

18. Who said that was the solution here?

Now, if the kid's parents had properly stored and locked up the weapons so he couldn't get them, that's a solution that doesn't involve banning the weapons.

[Ohiogal]

22. EXACTLY.

[LisaL]

28. I think the shootings clearly demonstrate we can't count on parents

to keep the guns away from their offspring.

[Blue_Adept]

30. Because we don't even have Wild West laws regarding proper storage and handling of guns

The wild west towns were far more strict than what we have today in that regard.

[shraby]

46. But if not, it only would be found out after the fact of dead kids.

[Bucky]

31. Of course it's not a simple problem

But honestly, I don't think we'll ever come up with a school security solution that half the determined mass killers couldn't work around.

By the way, what we don't hear about in the news is all the attempted mass shooter incidents that got planned and then foiled.

[Phentex]

9. Most are required to open outward already...

must be able to exit a building without backlog.

My kids schools elementary through high school are locked except for the start and end of the school day. I had to be let in at any other time.

[imanamerican63]

10. Blocked doors from the outside will only be good for one reason!

And I think whoever wants to get in that door will! Just saying.

[angrychair]

11. What there needs to be is less guns

And better control of what we leave like every other competent and civilized nation on Earth.

[CatWoman]

13. wasn't the kid in the last shooting a student there?

same as the Parkland shooter?

How would these doors stop them?

[meadowlander]

21. Yes, most of them have been.

Other than Newtown, I can't remember the last major school shooting where the shooter wasn't a student.

[B2G]

26. Parkland. He wasn't a current student. Nt

[mcar]

14. Schools already have that in place

At least here in my FL school district. Main door is accessible only via buzzer or by going through the main office. Visitors must go to the office and sign in with their driver license or other photo id.

Our high schools have 1500+ students. The schools, built in the 70s and 80s are open campuses with many buildings connected by covered walkways - you've seen similar with the video of MSD in Parkland and now, Santa Fe. Students being dropped off or driving themselves enter in the morning via that main locked door - unlocked at that time, of course, because it's not possible to get that many students screened and allowed to enter one at a time - on a daily basis.

Then there are the students who travel by bus. They come in via another entrance.

Students are in and out of buildings all day long. They have maybe 5 minutes to get from one class to another. It is simply not possible to have them enter, one at a time, through a locked door. 7 times a day.

Some go to the local community college for classes some days. Some go to a local environmental science academy some days. Etc., etc.

Reprising my OP from Friday on school safety issues.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210630254

[Cosmocat]

38. Anyone who thinks this is some brilliant

Idea hasn't stepped inside a school building in the last 10 years.

[mcar]

41. Yeah, the idea that they are still wide open

all the time speaks to that. I remember how sad it was when all the fencing went up around our schools. It seemed then like they were becoming prisons.

[Codeine]

15. It's a SCHOOL!!!

It’s not a prison, not a bank, not a pawn shop, it’s a GODDAMNED SCHOOL! We don’t need to be coming up with TSA security theater for fucking fourth graders, we need to keep guns away from evil little shits like Demetrios Snuffalufugus or whatever the fuck his shitty little name is.

A sane society does not countenance discussions about metal detectors and security protocols at the local K-12.

It’s just not right.

Stop normalizing it.

[Decoy of Fenris]

16. My school used to have those. Didn't work. The secretaries let anyone in if you smiled and waved.

That, and the kids kept side-doors propped or jammed for getting in and out to bypass the main entrances if you needed to get in after hours.

Your idea would work with 100% compliance only, and your heart is in the right place, but in practice, I don't see it working. Still, I suppose it's worth a crack. Can't hurt, at any rate.

[mercuryblues]

20. Many schools already have this set up

There are only 2 entrances in my kid's school. The front/main entrance and the bus entrance. All the other doors are exit only.

The Newton shooter shot his way in through the locked doors.

[Initech]

23. Nah too boring. The GOP wants the Oath Keepers and III%ers as hall monitors, snipers and vigilantes.

Now there's excitement for you!

[Iggo]

24. SAVE THE GUNS!

[sarah FAILIN]

25. My kids had this at their school

It isn't just about protecting them from school shooters, it is protecting them from anyone that could walk in off the street for whatever reason. We once had a mom come in and start yelling at a girl for breaking up with her son.

The way ours worked, the school opened 30 minutes before class started and there were teachers standing there to watch who came in. Once class started you had to get buzzed it. I really liked it because I felt like my kids were safer.

[LisaL]

27. Shooter was a student not a visitor.

So how exactly would that work?

[Hoyt]

32. Things like that should be considered. But there is more to this issue than just doors and arming

guards and maybe teachers.

[cvoogt]

33. Many schools have those already

But they should not have to. That said, reality dictates otherwise. Still, when the shooter's a student and the school has no metal detectors, it won't help. Even metal detectors are dumb because A) it will mean all those kids are lined up for screening (making easy targets) and B) There are always going to be other ways to sneak weapons in outside school hours for example. It's time to attack the source of the problem: GUNS.

The root cause is the countless guns and the easy access to them. It's a large problem to solve but that doesn't mean we as a nation shouldn't try. The nation that put people on the moon and robots on Mars has gone soft, apparently, when it comes to solving seeming insurmountable problems.

[VOX]

34. Remember the "I don't like Mondays" school shooter?

And the shooter wasn’t even on the school premises— she was in her house across the street. She managed to wreak serious havoc with a .22 caliber semi-automatic rifle. So obviously, anyone bent on shooting students doesn’t even have to be on the campus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)

The Grover Cleveland Elementary School shooting took place on January 29, 1979, at a public elementary school in San Diego, California, USA. The principal and a custodian were killed; eight children and a police officer were injured. A 16-year-old girl, Brenda Spencer, who lived in a house across the street from the school, was convicted of the shootings. Tried as an adult, she pleaded guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon, and was given an indefinite sentence. As of 2018, she remains in prison.
<snip>
On the morning of Monday, January 29, 1979, Spencer began shooting at children waiting for Principal Burton Wragg (aged 53) to open the gates to Cleveland Elementary. She injured eight children. Spencer shot and killed Wragg as he tried to help children. She also killed custodian Mike Suchar (aged 56) as he tried to pull a student to safety. A police officer (aged 28), responding to a call for assistance during the incident, was wounded in the neck as he arrived.

After firing thirty times, Spencer barricaded herself inside her home for several hours. While there, she spoke by telephone to a reporter from The San Diego Union-Tribune. Spencer told the reporter she shot at the schoolchildren and adults because, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day." She also told police negotiators the kids and adults whom she shot were easy targets and that she was going to "come out shooting." Spencer has been repeatedly reminded of these statements at parole hearings. Ultimately, she surrendered. Police officers found beer and whiskey bottles cluttered around the house but said Spencer did not appear to be intoxicated when arrested.
<snip>

[pangaia]

35. Most schools in my area do this.

Not all, but most.. well at least many...

[hunter]

36. Gun fetishes and magical thinking go hand in hand.

Personally, I'd rather believe in dragons.

[Horse with no Name]

37. They have those at my grandchild's school.

There isn’t a direct line of site from outside to in. There are cameras and they buzz you in to a holding area and then buzz you in to office and only then can you be buzzed into the school.

[Maeve]

39. Lots of schools already have that

But it easy to get around it. First, a high percentage of shooters are students, not visitors. Second, it only takes one person inside to open the door, one accomplice.

You also have a problem with the other things that happen at a school, like sports and elections. Our precinct, like many, is inside a school and we have to let the voters in (thru a propped open door, in our case). And the school is a career school that has a working hair salon, lunch counter, etc. so you have extra people coming in. And some shooters simply wait for classes to let out...

[vi5]

40. There are schools that DON'T have that?

I'm in NJ and pretty much every school I've ever been in has had that system.

[Ron Green]

42. The purpose of the school shooting / media coverage blitz:

1. Increase and maintain fear.

2. Lionize police.

3. Build the Security State.

Anything else?

[leftyladyfrommo]

43. So if you add a metal detector at the doors?

That would mean that students couldn't wear anything metal.

[Squinch]

44. This would not have prevented any shootings by students. Which are most of them.

[Me.]

45. I May Be Wrong But...

didn't they have those at one of the schools? Also...

"Many schools rushed to fortify their front entrance doors, failing to recognize that the Sandy Hook shooter shot out the glass next to the doorway, not in the actual doorway.”

http://www.schoolsecurity.org/2013/12/10-lessons-learned-from-the-sandy-hook-school-shootings/

As for the Lt. Gov. of Texas saying there are too many doors

“During the rampage at Sandy Hook, some students escaped out a back door, which may have been life-saving, said Tom Hickman, Long Beach Unified school safety chief.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/11/local/la-me-school-security-20130812

[kwassa]

47. Our entire local school system already does this.

Visitors can only be buzzed into the main office.

Roughly 200 schools, 160,000 students.

[Hekate]

48. Banning guns would go a lot further. I'm done arguing about it. Fuck'em.

[roamer65]

49. The Brits moves after Dunblane and the Aussie moves after Port Arthur have worked well.

The proof is in the puddin’.