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Fri Jun 8, 2018, 12:44 PM

I see some illogic in Trump's self-pardon theory

The PGIC believes he can pardon himself. Hold on there a second.

Trump needs to have been convicted of a crime to be pardoned of anything (Fordís preemptive pardon of Nixon notwithstanding) and he canít even be brought to trial for corruption, collusion and...uhh, whatís the name of another crime he committed that starts with C?...while heís still president.

Unless Trump is actually a follower of Karl Lentz and Anna Von Reitz (two sovereign citizen gurus who claim a criminal can establish a court to try his own offenses) there is no way he can think he can pardon himself. The constitution allows presidents to issue pardons, not deposed criminal ex-presidents.

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Reply I see some illogic in Trump's self-pardon theory (Original post)
jmowreader Jun 2018 OP
FBaggins Jun 2018 #1
unblock Jun 2018 #2
C_U_L8R Jun 2018 #3
Crutchez_CuiBono Jun 2018 #4
onenote Jun 2018 #5
kentuck Jun 2018 #6

Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 12:46 PM

1. You don't need to be convicted before being pardoned

You just canít be pardoned for something that will happen in the future.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 12:48 PM

2. presidents can pardon anyone after any alleged federal crime is committed.

he doesn't have to wait for an indictment or a conviction, even though most pardons are issues only after all appeals are exhausted.

self-pardon is i guess an open question, but i can't see any supreme court signing on to the notion that the framers intended to create a tyrant who could even murder people with impunity as long as he's in office.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 12:48 PM

3. He's just not a very smart person

Conniving, devious and self-serving... oh yes.
Smart... clearly not.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 12:50 PM

4. Indeed

the tendencies within days to somehow normalizing everyone to pardoning..."pre-crimes" is reminiscent of books I read once.
What can we do? Should we just flash mob the WH and start protesting? Come maybe w a change of clothes bc we may be there for awhile? I know this...tyranny hates summertime bc protesters can do so comfortably and focus on legality and the message. When you are forced to protest in the winter...less people show up, if at all. Point being, maybe now is the time to start a serious discussion about that.
One thing we know for sure..dt reacts to people in numbers. (or not...see the swearing in. Americas shame...omg.)

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 01:09 PM

5. People keep repeating the myth that you have to have been convicted to be pardoned

Not true. A person can be pardoned for a specific act anytime after its commission, even if no criminal charges have been brought yet, or if charges have been brought but no trial has occurred.

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Response to jmowreader (Original post)

Fri Jun 8, 2018, 01:16 PM

6. Even in his comments, he said that he could not pardon certain individuals because..

..they "had not been convicted of any crimes".

Which clearly shows that he believes someone must be convicted of a crime to receive a pardon.

Which would further translate into his belief that he could "absolutely" pardon himself, even if he were convicted of a crime.

Also, to accept a pardon admits guilt of the charges.

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