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Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:00 PM

 

Why Can't Democrats Give Trump Credit on North Korea?

The Singapore summit actually made the world a safer place. The president’s critics won’t admit it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-kim-jong-un-summit/562934/

The irony, therefore, is nearly irresistible. In his nuclear summit this week in Singapore, Trump gave up more—and got less—than Obama did with Iran. He flattered Kim Jong Un in ways Obama never flattered Hassan Rouhani or Ayatollah Khamenei. And so, having been offered a free shot on goal, congressional Democrats are taking it. It’s satisfying to expose your political adversaries as frauds.

But the Democrats are wrong. They’re not wrong that Trump proved a weaker, dumber negotiator than Obama. They’re wrong to suggest that makes the Singapore summit a failure. In their desire to prove themselves savvy and tough, Democrats are proving myopic. And they’re making themselves de facto allies of ultra-hawks like John Bolton, who may try to derail the Trump-Kim peace process, and revive the threat of war.

124 replies, 8810 views

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Reply Why Can't Democrats Give Trump Credit on North Korea? (Original post)
quartz007 Jun 2018 OP
Squinch Jun 2018 #1
quartz007 Jun 2018 #2
lame54 Jun 2018 #23
quartz007 Jun 2018 #35
lame54 Jun 2018 #83
LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jun 2018 #86
still_one Jun 2018 #47
Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #3
quartz007 Jun 2018 #12
ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #4
Thomas Hurt Jun 2018 #5
quartz007 Jun 2018 #8
ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #9
quartz007 Jun 2018 #11
DonViejo Jun 2018 #65
Cha Jun 2018 #73
Cha Jun 2018 #17
treestar Jun 2018 #60
quartz007 Jun 2018 #69
unblock Jun 2018 #6
quartz007 Jun 2018 #10
lame54 Jun 2018 #26
Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #112
Squinch Jun 2018 #116
dalton99a Jun 2018 #7
randr Jun 2018 #13
sheshe2 Jun 2018 #34
MrsCoffee Jun 2018 #14
Cha Jun 2018 #15
quartz007 Jun 2018 #24
lame54 Jun 2018 #28
quartz007 Jun 2018 #32
JHB Jun 2018 #104
quartz007 Jun 2018 #108
Cha Jun 2018 #29
quartz007 Jun 2018 #33
Cha Jun 2018 #41
quartz007 Jun 2018 #72
Cha Jun 2018 #74
quartz007 Jun 2018 #75
rockfordfile Jun 2018 #96
tazkcmo Jun 2018 #102
still_one Jun 2018 #58
Cha Jun 2018 #71
still_one Jun 2018 #80
Cha Jun 2018 #81
Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #113
Cha Jun 2018 #115
Freethinker65 Jun 2018 #16
quartz007 Jun 2018 #76
TCJ70 Jun 2018 #18
thewhollytoast Jun 2018 #62
lsewpershad Jun 2018 #19
lsewpershad Jun 2018 #20
Hoyt Jun 2018 #21
quartz007 Jun 2018 #27
treestar Jun 2018 #64
quartz007 Jun 2018 #67
treestar Jun 2018 #68
quartz007 Jun 2018 #70
treestar Jun 2018 #106
lame54 Jun 2018 #31
leftstreet Jun 2018 #49
Hoyt Jun 2018 #53
kcr Jun 2018 #89
Hoyt Jun 2018 #93
rockfordfile Jun 2018 #94
Hoyt Jun 2018 #97
LanternWaste Jun 2018 #119
NCTraveler Jun 2018 #122
ladjf Jun 2018 #22
Kajun Gal Jun 2018 #25
quartz007 Jun 2018 #30
Squinch Jun 2018 #39
Cha Jun 2018 #42
rockfordfile Jun 2018 #95
Tarheel_Dem Jun 2018 #36
Cha Jun 2018 #43
Initech Jun 2018 #37
catbyte Jun 2018 #38
Cha Jun 2018 #45
smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #54
GoCubsGo Jun 2018 #114
samir.g Jun 2018 #40
uponit7771 Jun 2018 #44
GeorgeGist Jun 2018 #46
quartz007 Jun 2018 #77
grantcart Jun 2018 #48
mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #55
grantcart Jun 2018 #61
mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #85
Rustynaerduwell Jun 2018 #50
mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #56
rzemanfl Jun 2018 #51
ooky Jun 2018 #52
quartz007 Jun 2018 #78
Squinch Jun 2018 #117
quartz007 Jun 2018 #118
Dawson Leery Jun 2018 #57
mr_lebowski Jun 2018 #59
dawg Jun 2018 #63
neeksgeek Jun 2018 #66
YOHABLO Jun 2018 #79
Thomas Hurt Jun 2018 #82
sarah FAILIN Jun 2018 #84
shanny Jun 2018 #87
renegade000 Jun 2018 #88
quartz007 Jun 2018 #109
LanternWaste Jun 2018 #120
quartz007 Jun 2018 #123
nolabels Jun 2018 #90
Caliman73 Jun 2018 #91
quartz007 Jun 2018 #124
struggle4progress Jun 2018 #92
duforsure Jun 2018 #98
tavernier Jun 2018 #99
Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #100
BlueJac Jun 2018 #101
JHB Jun 2018 #103
quartz007 Jun 2018 #110
rock Jun 2018 #105
Stinky The Clown Jun 2018 #107
jmowreader Jun 2018 #111
NCTraveler Jun 2018 #121

Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:02 PM

1. Asinine bullshit. We stomped on an ally and got nothing in return.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM

2. This article written by Peter Beinart!

 

Not exactly a right winger.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:39 PM

23. His theory is...

Hey we can always start the military exercises again
But Trump may pull the troops out
And putting them back in would be equal to Trump admitting a mistake
Trump don't admit to mistakes

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Response to lame54 (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:53 PM

35. Yes! Trump will never admit any mistakes!!

 

I can bet my last dollar on that. However Peter Beinart makes a valid point in his article and frankly I was surprised he wrote this article.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:58 PM

83. Not valid...

This may open up trade to NK
= more money
= more nukes
Making Kim a world player is not a good idea

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:23 AM

86. Trump always doubles down when he makes a mistake.

If the deal with North Korea goes down as many us expect, he'll blame the Democrats, Obama, Trudeau (his new favorite whipping boy), Mexican rapists, and the failure of Congressional Democrats to pay for his wall.

Oh, yeah -- don't forget Crooked Hillary. He certainly can't.

Then he'll ask Kim Yung Un what else he wants from us and then try to explain to "his people" why giving the North Koreans more than they want shows what a masterful deal maker he is.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:10 PM

47. I don't care what he identifies as, he was a vocal supporter of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq

and his assessment worked out real well on that one.

As for his thesis in this OP impling that the Democrats should not say the Korean summit was a failure, perhaps he should be a little more objective and realize while some of the critique is from the Democrats, most of that of that criticism is coming from republicans in the Senate, independent foreign policy experts, along with our allies, and other independent sources.

By all indications the U.S. took our ally, South Korea by surprise by canceling the scheduled military exericises with them, did not receive anything in return, and cut off the press when they asked the reasonable question if they will have the means to inspect the dismantling of the nuclear weapons. Instead of responding with something to the effect, "the discussions hadn't gotten that far", this administration took the question as an insult, became defense, and said it was an impertinent question.

If Beinart wants to characterize that as a success, then I suggest his judgement is severly lacking




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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM

3. North Korea will not give up nukes

 

and maximum pressure can no longer be applied in the future. Why? Because North Korea has been normalized n the world stage and we no longer have the help of other nations. It's the long game that works not the short game.

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Response to Tavarious Jackson (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:12 PM

12. I have serious doubts about N Korea giving up nukes

 

That is their passport to survival and world prestige.

I am surprised Peter Beinart thinks Trump deserves credit. He has been a reliable anti-Trumper in the past.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM

4. Negative 100 recs

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:04 PM

5. WTF? Where is there any proof that the Chubby Un is still not working on his nukes? LOL.

What success? Was the proper ass kissing as success? If so, what result?

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:06 PM

8. Article NOT written by a right winger...

 

read Peter Beinart's whole article.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:08 PM

9. So what? He is normalizing the insanity that is the Rump and bashing Dems

That is what he is doing in the excerpt you posted, so fuck him!

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:10 PM

11. Frankly I was shocked Beinart thinks this way. nt

 

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:43 PM

65. Why not? He supported the invasion of Iraq....

Republicans held him up as a "good" liberal, beating up the rest of us with his "goodness."

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:54 PM

73. Peter Beinart got it WRONG with the War in Irag, too.. his tweet..

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:18 PM

17. Doesn't matter.. Beinart's CRAP shouldn't be posted on DU.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:31 PM

60. How about sticking to the point rather than who wrote it?

So he is not a right winger. That does not mean he is correct.

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Response to treestar (Reply #60)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:48 PM

69. Any article is never guarantee of being accurate

 

prediction of future. Every article is to be taken with a grain of salt.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:05 PM

6. There is no peace process. Only a p.r. process

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Response to unblock (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:09 PM

10. Well no rockets have been launched recently

 

by Kim Jong Un. But only fools will trust N Korean leaders. History is the proof of that, and never ignore history otherwise you will be doomed to repeat it.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:41 PM

26. That's because he blew himself up...

And instead of using that to our advantage Trump makes him a world player

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Response to lame54 (Reply #26)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:13 PM

112. Uh no they wrecked their underground test site

they have missile test facilities, at least 6 that are known.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:19 PM

116. You're really showing your underwear in this thread.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:05 PM

7. WTF. Give him a Nobel prize already

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:15 PM

13. Turning a monster into a hero?

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Response to randr (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:52 PM

34. Which one are you referring to, randr? nt

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:15 PM

14. Oh for fuck's sake. A position based solely on lies told by Trump about his phony meeting.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:17 PM

15. Peter Beinart's CRAP shouldn't be POSTED on DU.

He's full of shite.

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:39 PM

24. Really? I always thought of him as a reliable

 

progressive. This is the first article I ever came across written by Beinart which has something good to say about Rump.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:42 PM

28. So, now you can say...

"He's pretty good except for that one article."

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Response to lame54 (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:49 PM

32. Pretty much...I was actually surprised

 

Peter Beinart wrote this article. I guess there is always the first time.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #32)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 09:24 AM

104. Maybe the first for you, but others here remember him about Iraq.

His reasoning then bore a close resemblance to his reasoning here. Essentially "yes, it's being proposed by despicable people, but because of (assumption), (believed lie), (ignorance of important aspects), (more assumptions), and above all (wishful thinking), it will make the world safer."

In doing so, he and his fellow "liberal hawks" helped Bush sell the upcoming invasion as having "bipartisan support", undermined the people trying to stop it, and made it easier for Bush to get congress' authorization to launch that half-assed neoconservative joyride that made the wold decidedly less safe.

A little perspective on why people are reacting so negatively to the OP. We've seen Beinart with massive blinders on before.

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Response to JHB (Reply #104)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:59 AM

108. Iraq was long ago, I have no recalls

 

of What Beinart wrote back then. But There is no reason to doubt what you recall.

I have said this so many times, attacking Iraq by Bush-43 was the worst foreign policy blunder in 100 years.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:42 PM

29. This CRAP article is the one I'm talking about that shouldn't

be posted on DU.

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Response to Cha (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:49 PM

33. Check out post #21

 

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:01 PM

41. So? I already did and I ain't buying.. Check out

all the other posts who agree it's CRAP.

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Response to Cha (Reply #41)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:54 PM

72. Did you prefer what Rump was doing before the summit?

 

Do you recall the panic in Hawaii over rumors of incoming missiles from N Korea?

It is a good thing Rump is not insulting Kim anymore. But I have grave doubts if Kim will give up his much beloved nukes.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #72)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:56 PM

74. Peter Beinart Got his Support of the War on Iraq WRONG, too.

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Response to Cha (Reply #74)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:59 PM

75. Could not disagree more about Iraq war

 

It was the biggest foreign policy blunder by any president in 100 years. If Beinart was for Iraq war, he was totally mistaken.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:57 AM

96. Why post his pro trump crap?

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #75)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:22 AM

102. If? n/t

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:28 PM

58. He was a vocal cheer leader for the bush invasion of Iraq, and his judgment in

that sorry affair destabilized the entire middle east, and killed over a million people

Also, what is missing from Beinart's criticism of Democrats, is that they were not even close to the biggest critics of this non-deal. Foreign policy experts, the military, our allies, and a large number of Senate republicans were not pleased at all, and made that very clear


I could care less whether it gets posted at DU or not, plus adding that his points can easily be refuted make it a nonsensical premise



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Response to still_one (Reply #58)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:51 PM

71. Thanks for all the clarity, still_one, I appreciate it..

I wasn't clear enough.. I meant this particular piece of crap shouldn't be posted on DU.

Yeah, I do remember now.. Beinart Blew it on Iraq, too.




I sense a pattern.. seems he hasn't learn from his previous egregious "mistake".

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Response to Cha (Reply #71)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:22 PM

80. I wasn't criticizing you Cha, and actually agreeing with you that Beinart's opinion is full of

crap

Give trump credit for what?



Nothing

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Response to still_one (Reply #80)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:24 PM

81. I know!

I didn't think so.

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Response to Cha (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:15 PM

113. The Atlantic is not a rw propaganda outlet

so unless things change posting articles from there is fine, even if they are wrong.

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Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #113)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 04:13 PM

115. I didn't say it was. This piece of Beinart's is.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:17 PM

16. Successful in that Trump did NOT start a nuclear war. Ok. Sure.

Successful in that things may have calmed down for a bit after Trump fucked up earlier and escalated tensions? Ok. Sure.

Trump's negotiating skills were shown to be non-existent. Is that something to be pleased about as a nation?

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Response to Freethinker65 (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:01 PM

76. No and nope!

 

Trump's negotiating skills with foreign adversaries are a big unproven enchilada.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:20 PM

18. Credit for what?

He got a whole lotta nothing in writing, and said the important stuff they agreed to they just didn't have time to write down. That's pretty convenient. If two maniacs decide to work together I'm hesitant to view that as a good thing.

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Response to TCJ70 (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:37 PM

62. Well stated, thank you, T

 

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:24 PM

19. Sems

Sjould call bs.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:25 PM

20. Dems

Should call BS.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:31 PM

21. I tend to agree. If trump found world peace, healthcare for all, income equality, etc., he'd still

be an ignorant, hateful white wing racist/bigoted buffoon. And he is not going to do any of that, just the opposite.

But, we are better off for having the summit. trump did little if anything to get the summit or make it through, but peace -- even if short-lived -- is better than nukes flying and hundreds of thousands of thousands innocent people killed. Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea. Now, he bumbles through a summit and things have cooled down a bit for awhile, maybe just a short while.

Jeeez, people actually think because he didn't come back with a 500 page agreement -- that typically takes a year or so to negotiate -- he totally failed. That's wrong. This kind of meeting was to set some kind of lofty goal. The next steps will lead to verification, etc., and hopefully some requirements to improve human rights in NK. Bombing them into treating their people right, isn't going to work.

I know the GOPers viciously criticized Obama for every great thing he -- and the First Lady -- did. They bashed him/her on little things too, including wearing a tan suit or a sleeveless blouse. The outright racist insults were disgusting.

But we don't have to be like GOPers, just because they did it. trump did one thing sort of right, hopefully he or the next Prez can expand upon this beginning of detente and work on human rights for the good of the people in NK and the region. Maybe this moves us a few years closer to that end.

The best message we can send him, rather that yapping at everything, is to win big in November. That would be a renunciation of trump, and display a lack-of-confidence.

I despise GOPers, but rather than wasting time criticizing trump on that, maybe it would be better to just ignore the so-called "summit," and move on to things that do matter -- health care, immigration, raising minimum wage, education, human rights here, corruption . . . . .


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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:41 PM

27. Well written post...

 

Take the summit as a possibility, never a guarantee of success.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:41 PM

64. the problem with the is Orange Fuerhrer is taking credit

not for that, but for establishing world peace.

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Response to treestar (Reply #64)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:46 PM

67. Much Worse was trading insults with Kim Jong UN

 

Remember the panic in Hawaii over incoming missiles?
At least orange Fuehrer is not trading insults with the dictator in NoKo.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #67)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:47 PM

68. That's allowing him to create the problem and then solve it

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Response to treestar (Reply #68)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:50 PM

70. Yes, that is his usual M.O.

 

But the fact is harsh insults were being lobbed, and could have started a nuclear exchange. Hawaii was in panic once.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:03 AM

106. Then cooling that off was the least he could do

and nothing he should get a ton of credit for.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:45 PM

31. Taken in I see

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:13 PM

49. Aren't things just back to pre-Trump threats to nuke NK?

You make good points, but by your own observation:

Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea.


the whole thing looks like a Trump-manipulated P.R. attack on all of us

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:23 PM

53. No, it looks like we have a hard time giving trump credit for anything, me too.

Last edited Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:44 AM - Edit history (1)

We are better off with the summit. It surprised me when trump said yes, rather than going into his fire, fury, Rocketman, chest thumping routine.

Of course, one half-assed semi-accomplishment hardly makes up for the crud he’s done recently.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #53)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:57 AM

89. Seriously?

Trump's not the problem. We're just so gosh darn hard on him!

Come on.

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Response to kcr (Reply #89)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:48 AM

93. Is that all you get out of that? Hardly said trump is not the problem.

But the “summit” is not the problem. Find something real to bash trump about, there’s plenty there.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #53)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:51 AM

94. You're a trump supporter. Why are you here? Trump is a traitor.

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Response to rockfordfile (Reply #94)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:57 AM

97. I agree he's a traitor, but the summit was one semi-good thing. Apparently, you are too myopic

to see there are lots of really bad things to go after trump about. The summit isn’t one of them.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #97)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:33 PM

119. The summit was a Christmas present to NK, and Trump brought nothing back but a bill of goods.

 

The summit was a Christmas present to NK, and Trump brought absolutely nothing back but a bill of goods.

Though I certainly don't think you're an idiot, I do think your premise, unsupported by any objective evidence is.

Though I get it... holding an opinion others than yours is merely our myopia.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:39 PM

122. So much in this paragraph.

 

But, we are better off for having the summit. trump did little if anything to get the summit or make it through, but peace -- even if short-lived -- is better than nukes flying and hundreds of thousands of thousands innocent people killed. Just months ago, we were rightly criticizing trump for threatening to attack, even nuke, NKorea. Now, he bumbles through a summit and things have cooled down a bit for awhile, maybe just a short while.


Trump acts like a fool and backs down from his own rhetoric.... for a bit. WIN!

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:32 PM

22. This is one of the most inappropriate and stupid post I've ever seen

on DU. Who would be dumb enough to think that Trump deserves credit for a tacky piece of stage craft?


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Response to ladjf (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:40 PM

25. Really!

 

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Response to ladjf (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:43 PM

30. Post written by Author, not me!

 

Peter Beinart has been a respected progressive author.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:59 PM

39. And you posted it here. Shit stirring crap. Again.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:02 PM

42. Beinart BLEW IT on this one.. and you posted it.

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Response to ladjf (Reply #22)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:56 AM

95. I agree. This is the kind of crap that let Trump ,with of course Russia influence in the WH

That piece reads like Sanders crap.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:54 PM

36. Beinart should be ashamed for normalizing bullshit. Another progressive, Rachel Maddow, says....

this all came about at the behest of Vladimir Putin. We gave away the store, and got little in return, and Democrats are not "wrong" to label this little piece of Russian stagecraft "a failure".

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #36)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:04 PM

43. Yes, Beinart is an Idiot on this POS. Thank you for

Rachel's Reality Based View.

Tarheel

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:57 PM

37. Because he normalized a mass murdering dictator?

Kim Jong Un is a murderous thug and putting him on a pedestal is not a good idea. One meeting and Trump's suddenly an expert in diplomacy? Get the fuck out of here!

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 09:59 PM

38. Sorry, but this is the reality:

[IMG][/IMG]

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Response to catbyte (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:06 PM

45. Yes, Beinart was played and anyone else who doesn't

see the reality of what happened with the two Dics.



Thanks catbyte

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Response to catbyte (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:25 PM

54. This!

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Response to catbyte (Reply #38)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:21 PM

114. Exactly right.

The only thing that sack of human waste deserves credit for is suckering people like Beinart into believing he did something more than beating up the strawman he created.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:00 PM

40. Credit for a photo op with a fellow tyrant?

No fucking way.

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Response to samir.g (Reply #40)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:05 PM

44. +1

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:08 PM

46. Spoken like a true Trumplican .

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #46)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:03 PM

77. Don't think Beinart is a Trumplican.

 

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:11 PM

48. Beyond the obvious question of why would anyone give Trump credit for

a destabilizing empty photo op that is not going to increase safety because it raises expectations which North Korea will only smash down the road so that they can get more concession is the whole methodology.

One of the great achievements of the Obama administration is in reinforcing the patient stable diplomacy of multilateral diplomacy which creates a wide net of stable structure rather than the bull in the china shop of bilateral bullying.

Just as he has created chaos in unilateral trade actions Trumps go it alone method simply creates a metric for all of the crazy authoritarians who want to leverage particular advantages to carve out individual state advantages.

This same article could have been written for Neville Chamberlain. In this case not just one dictator has been emboldened but two. You have now fed Trump on glorifying the great leader like giving a crack addict a newer more potent drug.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #48)


Response to mr_lebowski (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:33 PM

61. Absolutely, surprised I used that word, would have bet $ 100 I had used "addict"



Being in a constant stage of outrage about what Trump is doing is having an impact on my ability to keep focused.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:02 AM

85. Been there brother ... not a prob ... I knew what you meant ;)

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:13 PM

50. I saw a video once of a motorcyclist riding too close to the car in front of him.

When the car braked the motorcyclist hit the back of the car. Instead of dying, the motorcyclist flew head over heels forward, flipped, and made a perfect landing on his feet on the roof of the car. Not a scratch on the cyclist, but his bike was totaled. I don't credit him for surviving.

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Response to Rustynaerduwell (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:27 PM

56. I'd give him credit for a well-staged stunt, myself ... unless proven otherwise (nt)

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:20 PM

51. I can't say what I think. I will go to sleep instead and have nightmares

about saluting North Korean generals. Jesus H. Christ. (That's my bedtime prayer, not an insult).

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:22 PM

52. Because I disagree that we are safer.

When I see a concrete denuclearization effort coming together then I will give credit for an accomplishment. I think what we saw last week was a grand, Donald Trump style production, intended to glorify Donald Trump. I'm for talking, but my opinion was this approach was all wrong. This should never have been about Trump's "greatness". But that's what it was, and always is with Trump involved. I can see a lot of ways this can blow up in Trump's face, and ours. So I need to see it play out for a while before I start to feel safer.

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Response to ooky (Reply #52)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:05 PM

78. Much to early to say if summit was a success

 

Only thing I prefer is less verbal bombs thrown at dictators.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:21 PM

117. No doubt for you it is. The rest of us are pretty clear.

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #78)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:12 PM

118. Glad you can see the future clearly!

 

Can you do us all a favor and tell us how high the DJI will be by year end?

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:28 PM

57. Because he gave up so much for little in return.

The right bashes the Iran deal but loves this Putin Stagecraft.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:31 PM

59. Writer may have a point about 'optics' but you know what? I don't GAF ... I'm post-optics ...

Then again I'm so far post-this-entire-ridiculous-shitshow that I don't even ...

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:38 PM

63. We got fuck all! And I give Trump all the credit.

Not a single missile, warhead, or even conventional piece of artillery pointed at Seoul has been decommissioned.

We gave a photo op, and we got one in return.

Yay?

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 10:44 PM

66. Give credit? For what?

The only thing that Trump achieved in Singapore is further distance from democracy.

Now I’m debating whether to stop reading The Atlantic.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:18 PM

79. Trump would auction off Ivanka if the thought it would make him look good.

 

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sat Jun 16, 2018, 11:45 PM

82. Let me add, The Pig gets credit when he gets a signed treaty approved by the Senate.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:01 AM

84. Your post is crap

Trump has done not one thing that hasn't been done before except embarrass our country multiple times and give away everything with nothing in exchange.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:49 AM

87. Hilarious.

 

trump ratcheted up tensions with his little rocket man and my-button-is-bigger-than-your-button BS. Now he's ratcheted them down again, for the sake of a photo op and a win.

And that's all this is. There is no "agreement" with NK that hasn't been agreed to before, 14 times iirc, going back to 1985. That's on their side; on our side we have colossal liar preznit doing his usual thing.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:52 AM

88. If you think the path to lasting peace is through a bunch of autocrats glad-handing for the camera..

You're pretty naive...

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Response to renegade000 (Reply #88)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:01 PM

109. Not my opinion, it is P Beinart's! nt

 

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Response to quartz007 (Reply #109)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:35 PM

120. You keep digging in with that deflection, punkin!

 

You keep digging in with that particular deflection, punkin! It seems to be working, for you if for no one else. But as long as it's working for you...

Heck, say it loud enough and repeat it seventeen times, and people may even begin to believe you're sincere in the reasons you alleged to post it here.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #120)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 04:27 PM

123. Peter Beinart is a well known and

 

Much published progressive author. I see no reason to ban his articles on DU.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:01 AM

90. Why can't we also believe in the tooth fairy?

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:20 AM

91. Because he deserves no credit. WTF did he do except give a murderous dictator legitimacy.

Democrats are not lining up with Bolton either, that is utter horseshit. You can be against One imbecile talking to a murdering shit bag without being against an actual peace process.

I suppose Beinart was all in for Neville Chamberlain too. That poor guy got a bum rap. I mean who knew Hitler wasn't trust worthy? Trump did what Trump does ALL THE DAMNED TIME. Vague promises of greatness with NO details to a guy who has been schooled by his Father and Grandfather on the skills to take actual well written documents with checks and verification methods, extend them out, then break agreements.

North Korea launched a cyber attack against parts of the US infrastructure, just days after the "historic, world made safer" summit.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #91)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 04:28 PM

124. Your post is right on points,,nt

 

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 01:41 AM

92. There's no evidence anything actually happened: he flew off to Singapore, with essentially

no preparation, signed a meaningless document for a photo-op, made his usual off-script remarks, and rushed back before his limited attention-span was utterly exhausted

International observers will suspect that the White House is a chaotic mess, that the US has no reliable analysis, and that US commitments will flutter unpredictably with the wind, especially after his bizarre performance in Canada immediately prior

Perhaps it improves US-NK relations, if by US-NK relations we mean nothing more than Trump-Kim relations, but viewed in recent immigration context, the real take-away message may simply be a further step back from US human rights postures -- and that damages US standing in the world, while also weakening US labor against goods manufactured under repressive conditions. It's hard to read that as a defeat of the thuggish interests that people like Bolton serve

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 06:06 AM

98. Because it was nothing but a photo op

Claiming something he didn't do, make us safer. If anything he made us more unsafe from Kim and Putin , and China aggression. Just like right now trumps doing nothing to prevent more election fraud from putin, doing nothing to take away nukes from sick kim, and allowed him to test enough bombs he no longer needs more testing, and now is mass producing weapons with them still having their delivery systems, and with the help of putin and China, and trump. Then pulling out our service members , and stopping military exercises for putin is a huge national security threat, and hasn't made us safer at all, just the opposite . Kim is a corrupt lying killer and trump wants us now to trust both him and kim ? lol. They both should never be trusted.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 06:17 AM

99. We do.

He owns it all.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 07:50 AM

100. it is a failure. The idea that we should count it as a success because with bolton it could be worse

is dumb...he got nothing good in that deal. Other presidents have made better deals which Korea ignored. This is no different except he gave the despot murderer, stature and that is a mistake...and without sanctions, he will be free to improve his weapons. We leave South Korea ...he invades...bad bad deal... made by the dumbest president ever.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:13 AM

101. total bullshit

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 08:51 AM

103. Credit for what, exactly? All that's been done is that photo op in Singapore.

That's all that has actually happened (as long as you discount, as he does, damage to relations with allies), but Trump is touting it as if Kim has already dismantled everything.

It did not "ma(k)e the world a safer place", and by asserting it Beinart is showing the same wishful thinking, lack of perceptiveness, dismissal of Democratic opposition as contrariness, and myopia that he had when he was one of the "liberal hawks" who supported Bush's invasion of Iraq.

This is another round of Pete-splaining how narrowly other people are seeing things, not noticing his own tunnel-vision.

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Response to JHB (Reply #103)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:05 PM

110. Yes, I do not like hawks of any feathers

 

Liberal hawks are no better than neocons on the right wing.

What all these people fail to understand, is that we are no longer the superpower we were post WWII and Korean war and even Vietnam.

To spend dollars on wars with borrowed money is as stupid as it gets. Especially since these wars are not defensive. Korea and Vietnam and Iraq did not attack us.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 09:43 AM

105. The summit was all talk

Of course, it's true, we may deliver on what we have promised, and Kim may deliver on what he promised. BWAH HA HA! Just kidding!

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 11:06 AM

107. 18.00 Sunday, 23C, Partly cloudy

Ammiright?

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Sun Jun 17, 2018, 12:06 PM

111. The Singapore Summit prob. made the world more dangerous

Problem 1: immediately before going, he alienated all America’s allies at the G7 summit.

Problem 2: he basically promised to remove the US military from South Korea. The ROK Army is better now than it was when I was stationed there, but it’s going to need US reinforcements to fend off a dedicated North Korean People’s Army invasion. And it’s going to need them right then, not three days later - we have to stop them before they get a chance to get into the hills. (MASH fans know the 4077th sometimes got hundreds of casualties from a battle over one hill...well, that’s how the real war went. And now they have ten times the manpower, a 6-million-member Reserve Force, and an active defense industry. If North Korea invades the south, there are no guarantees they won’t turn the whole peninsula communist.

Problem 3: in exchange for giving KJU everything he wanted - entry into the world of nations and defanging the military opposing him - Trump got nothing real in return.

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Response to quartz007 (Original post)

Mon Jun 18, 2018, 03:37 PM

121. Clearly stated in the first two paragraphs.

 

Fuck Trump.

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