Is it reasonable to declare a suspension of Godwin's Law?

[Stinky The Clown]

The rise of nationalism and - yes - facism is real and growing.

The parallels to Hitler's rise are frightening striking. To be sure, this isn't a repeat, but it IS comparable. Different forces and different issues, but similar to a great degree.

[FBaggins]

1. Sure... as soon as Trump gases a couple million people

And/or conquers Mexico or Canada.

Until then... no.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. In your view, how long until we get there?

[FBaggins]

7. Never

This isn’t post-WWI Germany... and he isn’t close to Hitler

[lame54]

8. You're right...

Hitler didn't have nukes

[mythology]

18. And Germany didn't have a stable government

And Hitler while obviously insane at least wasn't comically inept.

People are too quick to leap to hyperbolic comparisons. Trump can be a piece of trash without needing to say he's just like Hitler. If I said FDR was like Hitler because of internment camps, I'd be ridiculous.

[lame54]

20. So, should we call him FDR?

[bronxiteforever]

3. Cheeto is fanboy

According to a 1990 Vanity Fair interview, Ivana Trump once told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that her husband, real-estate mogul Donald Trump, now a leading Republican presidential candidate, kept a book of Hitler's speeches near his bed.

"Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed ... Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist," Marie Brenner wrote.

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8

Note this is a 2015 article.

[smirkymonkey]

11. The Nazi's didn't start out by throwing people into gas chambers.

How far do we have to let things go on before we sound the alarm?

I am sick of people thinking they are so clever by throwing out "Godwin's Law" at every comparison to Nazi Germany. No, it is not exactly the same, but it is pretty damned similar - even survivors have said so - and we ignore the similarities at our peril.

Donald Trump's biographer Tony Schwarz even said that if Trump ever got the opportunity to become a murderous dictator like Kim, Hitler, Stalin or Mussolini he would do the exact same thing. Don't think it can't happen here because it can.

[FBaggins]

13. Doesn't really matter how "sick" you are.

You aren’t entitled to your own reality.

The current situation is in no way like that of Nazi Germany.

MANY years before they were gassing people, Hitler was writing about gassing Jews being a solution to their problems. He was also writing about invading and conquering their neighbors. He was already on record re: how he would deal with “lives unworthy of life”.

It’s also worth noting that these writings occurred while he was in prison for treason. Treason that consisted of trying to overthrow the government at the point of a gun (a coup attempt that involved thousands of armed man and more than a few deaths).

[LanternWaste]

16. Lots of people are indeed, wedded to internet memes

"Until then... no."

Lots of people are indeed, wedded to internet memes and pretend they are in fact, critical thought rather than, well... simplistic memes.

[FBaggins]

17. Hitler had German Shepherds

Lots of DUers are just like Hitler.

[marylandblue]

4. The problem is we have only two classes - normal and Hitler

In between there are a lot of graduations of evil. Trump is a corrupt authoritarian populist. He is closer to Berlosconi of Italy.

We need to be more precise in our attavks, or we just look silly.

[asiliveandbreathe]

5. Fur sure he still keeps the book handy - in the oval office...what I find

interesting, HE READS..but then, I knew someone who didn't like to read, until he was given a Sports Illustrated subscription..

Guess it all depends on what your interests are...

[Yonnie3]

6. Godwin's Law is a prediction, not a rule.

From Wiki:

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"

It is still valid. Godwin himself said it is appropriate to compare White Wingers at the Charlottesville rally to Nazis.

People often attribute other meanings to the Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[Caliman73]

9. Correct! Too many people misconstrue Godwin's statement.

Just like when people say, "1st Amendment" or "Free Speech" when a person from a private company gets fired or has some kind of social consequence. NO, the 1st Amendment is about government interference in free speech.

Godwin did not say that if you bring up Hitler you "lose" or "look silly". He merely said that the likelihood of Hitler being brought up in a discussion increases as the thread continues, regardless of the initial topic.

[Yonnie3]

12. Thanks! It was back in the Usenet days I first heard of it.

Poe's law is a much more recent one.

It is also much more applicable today than when it was proposed. Its generalization seems to have become very applicable too.

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake for the genuine article". The original statement of Poe's law referred specifically to creationism, but it has since been generalized to apply to any kind of fundamentalism or extremism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

I find myself far too often wondering if it is The Onion or The Borowitz Report someone is quoting.

[Cha]

10. It's already been Suspended!

[Wounded Bear]

14. Long past time...

long past.

[GusBob]

15. Gosh, no it's a sacred internet creed whose sanctity is inviolate

Because nobody has been gassed, man

They can kill people by taking away health care, letting gun deaths run wild, having cops gun down citizens, putting lead in water in Flint, or letting folks perish in hurricanes

But no gas, so Godwins law is absolute.

[smirkymonkey]

21. Try taking that up w/ FBaggins.

See how far you'll get with him.

[FBaggins]

22. As if gassing is the only difference

Trying to draw connections between failure to agree that government should pay for healthcare for everyone... and lining people up next to the mass grave you had them dig... then shooting them...

Well... even trying to make that comparison makes clear the total lack of rational thought involved... or indicts our education system for a total failure to teach history.

[GusBob]

24. Must be hard for you these days

The Nazi comparisons are literally everywhere.

Speaking of education, I went to work in a lumber camp after 8th grade so.

I have read Milton Mayers book "They Thought They Were Free"

Have you?

[LAS14]

19. It doesn't need suspending. It's an observation, not a rule. Of course...

... we should be carefully watching comparisons. As they become more numerous, it gets scarier. It's irrelevant whether there are counter-balancing arguments. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight back at every similarity as it appears. Such as purposefully filling the air with lies so the populace no longer knows what to believe.

[gratuitous]

23. Let's look at the record . . .

Trump supporters have staged political rallies where they chanted about "blood and soil" and killed a citizen with the temerity to oppose them in public.

At the G-7 Conference, Trump skedaddled early to go meet with Kim Jong-un in Singapore. I think he did that thinking that the conference wouldn't issue a public statement about the meeting without him present as a signatory. He was wrong, and the G-6 issued a statement that the Trump administration didn't like. Both Larry Kudlow and Peter Navarro characterized that statement as a "stab in the back," a curious locution with ominous echoes.

The administration is incarcerating and detaining applicants for asylum without due process or access to counsel, and pinning numbers on children's clothing.

Numerous times over the last couple of years, Trump has made some statement about a very disturbing thing he says he wants to do. When people push back, we're assured that Trump is considering doing no such thing or his comments were taken out of context or how dare you think that Trump's bald statement is to be taken for its plain meaning, and what he really meant was something totally anodyne and inoffensive. Later, when Trump does the very disturbing thing he was contemplating, his supporters chide anyone objecting as snowflakes and reminding that Trump said he was going to do what he did, so you can't pretend you're upset about him doing it now. This same tactic was used by folks defending the author of Mein Kampf: He outlined this program years ago; he's just delivering on his promise!

But until persons are loaded onto actual freight cars, kids are being tattooed instead of just getting labeled, and windows are smashed in the financial district, I suppose there's nothing to be concerned about. There's plenty of time. Nothing really, really bad has happened, at least to me personally. There's no uptick in the disturbing things that are happening, at least nothing we can't eventually undo.

So, yeah, nothing to worry our pretty little heads about.