HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Can we talk about alcohol...

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:20 PM

Can we talk about alcoholism and Anthony Bourdain?


I didn't know Anthony Bourdain, but felt like I did in one small important way. In him, I saw a drinking alcoholic with a front-stage vigorous attempt to do it successfully. His was a fantastic life-embracing show, with drinking taking a prominent role in the joie de vivre, and sometimes that made it hard for me to watch.

When he threw back shots, indeed got wasted, I saw a fellow alcoholic living dangerously whereas most viewers, I imagine, saw “a man who knew how to drink, knew how to live.” His state of mind will be called depression, and who can argue with that in the wake of his suicide. But can we please, people, start connecting the dots to alcoholism (also a disease of the mind), at least when it is screamingly evident?

Perhaps I should not presume to think I know, but I can at least invite the conversation where it is uncomfortably and amazingly absent. Did alcoholism (which brings depression or ineffectively “treats” depression) ultimately take down Bourdain?

Alcohol is a drug. “Drugs” and “alcohol” remain separate in conversations about addiction, like a “bad sister” doing outrageous unthinkable things while the “good sister” quietly nurses a prom hangover and shame from a blackout.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-alcoholism-anthony-bourdain-drinking-suicide-0622-20180621-story.html

42 replies, 3354 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 42 replies Author Time Post
Reply Can we talk about alcoholism and Anthony Bourdain? (Original post)
pbmus Jun 2018 OP
dhol82 Jun 2018 #1
applegrove Jun 2018 #2
mitch96 Jun 2018 #18
applegrove Jun 2018 #20
Docreed2003 Jun 2018 #3
IluvPitties Jun 2018 #4
Loki Liesmith Jun 2018 #5
oberliner Jun 2018 #6
FreeState Jun 2018 #13
pbmus Jun 2018 #25
Tipperary Jun 2018 #37
monmouth4 Jun 2018 #7
shanny Jun 2018 #28
Tipperary Jun 2018 #38
blue neen Jun 2018 #8
yallerdawg Jun 2018 #9
Fred Sanders Jun 2018 #10
yallerdawg Jun 2018 #12
FreeState Jun 2018 #14
eissa Jun 2018 #22
LiberalLoner Jun 2018 #11
irisblue Jun 2018 #15
H2O Man Jun 2018 #16
gollygee Jun 2018 #17
Freddie Jun 2018 #19
Crutchez_CuiBono Jun 2018 #21
Kaleva Jun 2018 #23
Major Nikon Jun 2018 #24
Eyeball_Kid Jun 2018 #26
Major Nikon Jun 2018 #31
pbmus Jun 2018 #34
Major Nikon Jun 2018 #42
smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #35
grantcart Jun 2018 #27
ecstatic Jun 2018 #30
pbmus Jun 2018 #32
smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #36
dvan Jun 2018 #29
pbmus Jun 2018 #33
MoonchildCA Jun 2018 #39
pbmus Jun 2018 #40
Vinca Jun 2018 #41

Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:24 PM

1. I do think that drinking is a form of self-medication for depressed people

It’s a way to blunt the pain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:25 PM

2. He said he only drank on the road. That he abstained when back in the US.

Food for thought though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to applegrove (Reply #2)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:01 PM

18. I read that also

I just saw in the news that the French Authorities said he had no drugs in his system accept for a prescribed medication in the therapeutic range.
m

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mitch96 (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:18 PM

20. Yes. After a heroin addiction it must be hard to find a happy normal. Even years

later. Maybe he was being given advice to quit alcohol. Or go on meds for depression and did not want to. I'm sure his mental health professionals have a better picture. None of our business but we public did think we were a part of his adventures and thus his life. Not many public figures so personally lived their lives on camera. I do remember the scene in Sicily when bourdain was diving for seafood as the locals seeded the sea with dead seafood. Anthony's reaction was something to the effect of 'just let me die now' it was so cynical and depressing to him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:29 PM

3. Interesting take, for sure

The only thing I would say is that take is purely through the lens of his TV shows and not from the perspective of a person who knew Bourdain.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:30 PM

4. Worthy conversation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:31 PM

5. "Perhaps I should not presume to think I know,"

Article coulda been a lot shorter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:32 PM

6. Was thinking along the same lines

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:27 PM

13. +1 n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #5)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 11:28 PM

25. Apparently you were not watching Anthony with any knowledge of....

Alcoholism....or addiction....

Just watch his first year and his last year....it is obvious....he was an admitted addict...and depression had taken over his life .

I am still personally reeling from his decision but am professionally confident
in my diagnosis ....and wish i could have had a personal relationship
With Anthony

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 05:11 AM

37. This.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:32 PM

7. I saw a picture of him once and he was very, very thin. Alkie was my first thought.

RIP dear Anthony..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to monmouth4 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:27 AM

28. Alkie was your first thought from "very, very thin?"

 

Every alkie I have known is bloated and pasty. Not a dearth of calories but a surplus of useless ones.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to shanny (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 05:12 AM

38. I found that odd too.

 

Sadly, i know an alcoholic. She is overweight, not morbidly so, but a far cry from the way she used to look.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:33 PM

8. Conversely, depression brings the alcoholism.

Yep.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:44 PM

9. We watched him drink on TV for 18 years, starting with "A Cook's Tour."

He gave up so many of these vices, including smoking after his daughter was born, maybe his drinking didn't register as just another addiction?

Was he a high-functioning alcoholic who slept nights between silk sheets - possessed by the same alcoholic demons haunting skid-row winos?

Ending up more a Hemingway than a Bukowski?

Quite possibly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yallerdawg (Reply #9)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:11 PM

10. His show in Chiang Mai, Thailand had me scratching my head. Most of the show was a constant

stream of drinking...the many charms of the city and area were mainly overlooked as Tony set off to some farm to drink all day and night...my first realization there was something very wrong,

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:21 PM

12. And any show with his Russian buddy Zamir.

Of course, there's just so much you can do with borscht.

Lot of drinking in Ireland, too (haggis).

No drinking in Nambia (raw warthog anus)? Muslim nation?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:29 PM

14. Chang Mai has amazing food

I saw the same episode and didn't have the same reaction. When I was there we spent most of our time eating and drinking too (as did a lot of other folks).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:34 PM

22. His San Francisco episode was similar

So many amazing restaurants in this city and he primarily focused on bars.

I adored Bourdain; have all his books, even managed to get one autographed when he gave a talk in my city. But his drinking always made me raise an eyebrow. Knowing his issues with addiction, I always wondered if his drinking was a substitute for it. The link to depression certainly makes sense. Hope he’s at peace now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:12 PM

11. I thought the same thing.

Grew up with family alcoholics. He looked like an active alcoholic to me. It was hard for me to watch without wishing someone would rescue him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:34 PM

15. The article reads like it is written for an AA group local paper nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:38 PM

16. Interesting.

Thank you for this.

I wasn't familiar with him when he was alive, though one of my sons loved his show. But this article is interesting, in a very sad way.

Recommended.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:38 PM

17. People with mental illness often fall victim to drug and alcohol abuse

but the base problem is still mental illness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:16 PM

19. My son is a recovering heroin addict

Now working at a rehab facility doing some counseling (among other things) and hoping to go to grad school for counseling or to be a social worker. He's been taught that if your brain is prone to addiction, it doesn't matter what your "vice" is - opiates, cocaine, alcohol - you will become an addict. Alcohol is just harder to OD on (it takes longer).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:22 PM

21. dt brings on alcoholism too.

and depression, and suicide. Outside influences matter. How much is a person supposed to take?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:42 PM

23. He was a former heroin and cocaine addict but never heard that he was an alcoholic.

"Anthony Bourdain's Addiction Report Card
Anthony Bourdain has been through a series of addictions—how's he doing?

Posted Feb 08, 2014 "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-in-society/201402/anthony-bourdains-addiction-report-card

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:54 PM

24. Speculation regarding possible alcohol addiction does no good

Bourdain admitted to drug addiction, but I’ve seen nothing about him admitting to alcoholism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:00 AM

26. I think that the creator of the thread was inviting discussion on the more general issue.

It's nearly irrelevant whether or not Bourdain was an alcoholic.

But there is nevertheless merit to the notion that many former heroin addicts continue to self-medicate with alcohol. It's an issue that chemical dependency clinics deal with all the time. And yes, both alcohol (dependency or) addiction and heroin addiction are part of a DSM dual diagnosis with various kinds of depression, including "alcoholism depression".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:58 AM

31. I didn't get that out of the OP

Virtually the entire article was about Bourdain. So while the topic of alcoholism may certainly be worthy of discussion, it's pure speculation as to whether Bourdain even was an alcoholic, much less whether it played any role in his suicide. I just don't see the benefit of injecting him into the discussion when the author clearly doesn't know what role alcohol played in his death if any at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #31)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:28 AM

34. Anthony drank major amounts of alcohol in almost every episode...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Reply #34)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 04:33 PM

42. It takes weeks to film an episode

Only 9 or 10 are filmed each year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:29 AM

35. Basically, if you are an addict, you will replace one addiction with another.

He probably gave up the drugs and substituted with alcohol. It's pretty common. It sounds like he was a functional alcoholic, but he was still self-medicating an underlying depression. Anyway, it's a very sad story.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:13 AM

27. Just yesterday The Atlantic published a review of advances on diagnosing alcoholism

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:45 AM

30. That was interesting. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:19 AM

32. Thanks for a very informative article...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:33 AM

36. Interesting article.

Thanks for posting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:36 AM

29. Alcohol is a drug.

Heroin addicts who take up drinking are playing with fire. Substituting one drug for another is just continuing the addiction. I’ve seen way too many addicts take up drinking because they thought alcohol was different than other drugs. Most ended up right back where they were before, usually worse. Addiction is a progressive disease. I speak from personal experience. It’s not the substance, it’s the disease of addiction that causes the problems. Think how absurd it would be if you heard someone say, “Yeah, I’m an alcoholic, but I can use heroin with no problems!” It’s all the same, street drugs, Rx drugs, alcohol, etc. He was an addict in active addiction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dvan (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:24 AM

33. Thank you for your experienced perspective...

And Welcome to DU

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dvan (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 11:10 AM

39. I agree an addict is an addict.

My father was an alcoholic. He joined AA in the mid 50s, at close to 30 years old, before he was married, and before he had kids. I always said we “grew up in AA.” He and my mom were very involved, it was a whole social network—meetings at our house, churches, retreats. He always identified as an alcoholic, even though he never drank. He was “sober” 50 years.

I saw it though. I had glimpses of my father, the alcoholic. In later years, he had many back and neck surgeries. He was in chronic pain, and I saw the behavior with prescription meds. He could not control it. He would go through a bottle of Vicodin or other pain meds like they were candy. It was pretty bad. He would never admit it to himself, or others. He had a reputation to uphold—he was a respected “old-timer” and a sponsor to so many.
I loved my father, he was a great, wise, kind man, my liberal lion. But he was more than an alcoholic, he was an addict.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:23 PM

40. Thank you for your honest post....Addiction is a disease...

and we are getting closer to successful treatments....

And Welcome to DU...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pbmus (Original post)

Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:28 PM

41. That's something I hadn't considered about Anthony Bourdain, but it makes a lot of sense.

For some reason I can't get past being mad at the guy for killing himself. It makes no sense to me since I didn't personally know the man. Wonder if I've subconsciously associated the booze problems from closer to home with Bourdain. Something to think about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread