Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:20 PM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
Can we talk about alcoholism and Anthony Bourdain?I didn't know Anthony Bourdain, but felt like I did in one small important way. In him, I saw a drinking alcoholic with a front-stage vigorous attempt to do it successfully. His was a fantastic life-embracing show, with drinking taking a prominent role in the joie de vivre, and sometimes that made it hard for me to watch. When he threw back shots, indeed got wasted, I saw a fellow alcoholic living dangerously whereas most viewers, I imagine, saw “a man who knew how to drink, knew how to live.” His state of mind will be called depression, and who can argue with that in the wake of his suicide. But can we please, people, start connecting the dots to alcoholism (also a disease of the mind), at least when it is screamingly evident? Perhaps I should not presume to think I know, but I can at least invite the conversation where it is uncomfortably and amazingly absent. Did alcoholism (which brings depression or ineffectively “treats” depression) ultimately take down Bourdain? Alcohol is a drug. “Drugs” and “alcohol” remain separate in conversations about addiction, like a “bad sister” doing outrageous unthinkable things while the “good sister” quietly nurses a prom hangover and shame from a blackout. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-alcoholism-anthony-bourdain-drinking-suicide-0622-20180621-story.html
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42 replies, 3354 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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pbmus | Jun 2018 | OP |
dhol82 | Jun 2018 | #1 | |
applegrove | Jun 2018 | #2 | |
mitch96 | Jun 2018 | #18 | |
applegrove | Jun 2018 | #20 | |
Docreed2003 | Jun 2018 | #3 | |
IluvPitties | Jun 2018 | #4 | |
Loki Liesmith | Jun 2018 | #5 | |
oberliner | Jun 2018 | #6 | |
FreeState | Jun 2018 | #13 | |
pbmus | Jun 2018 | #25 | |
Tipperary | Jun 2018 | #37 | |
monmouth4 | Jun 2018 | #7 | |
shanny | Jun 2018 | #28 | |
Tipperary | Jun 2018 | #38 | |
blue neen | Jun 2018 | #8 | |
yallerdawg | Jun 2018 | #9 | |
Fred Sanders | Jun 2018 | #10 | |
yallerdawg | Jun 2018 | #12 | |
FreeState | Jun 2018 | #14 | |
eissa | Jun 2018 | #22 | |
LiberalLoner | Jun 2018 | #11 | |
irisblue | Jun 2018 | #15 | |
H2O Man | Jun 2018 | #16 | |
gollygee | Jun 2018 | #17 | |
Freddie | Jun 2018 | #19 | |
Crutchez_CuiBono | Jun 2018 | #21 | |
Kaleva | Jun 2018 | #23 | |
Major Nikon | Jun 2018 | #24 | |
Eyeball_Kid | Jun 2018 | #26 | |
Major Nikon | Jun 2018 | #31 | |
pbmus | Jun 2018 | #34 | |
Major Nikon | Jun 2018 | #42 | |
smirkymonkey | Jun 2018 | #35 | |
grantcart | Jun 2018 | #27 | |
ecstatic | Jun 2018 | #30 | |
pbmus | Jun 2018 | #32 | |
smirkymonkey | Jun 2018 | #36 | |
dvan | Jun 2018 | #29 | |
pbmus | Jun 2018 | #33 | |
MoonchildCA | Jun 2018 | #39 | |
pbmus | Jun 2018 | #40 | |
Vinca | Jun 2018 | #41 |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:24 PM
dhol82 (8,432 posts)
1. I do think that drinking is a form of self-medication for depressed people
It’s a way to blunt the pain.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:25 PM
applegrove (98,331 posts)
2. He said he only drank on the road. That he abstained when back in the US.
Food for thought though.
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Response to applegrove (Reply #2)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:01 PM
mitch96 (7,267 posts)
18. I read that also
I just saw in the news that the French Authorities said he had no drugs in his system accept for a prescribed medication in the therapeutic range.
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Response to mitch96 (Reply #18)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:18 PM
applegrove (98,331 posts)
20. Yes. After a heroin addiction it must be hard to find a happy normal. Even years
later. Maybe he was being given advice to quit alcohol. Or go on meds for depression and did not want to. I'm sure his mental health professionals have a better picture. None of our business but we public did think we were a part of his adventures and thus his life. Not many public figures so personally lived their lives on camera. I do remember the scene in Sicily when bourdain was diving for seafood as the locals seeded the sea with dead seafood. Anthony's reaction was something to the effect of 'just let me die now' it was so cynical and depressing to him.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:29 PM
Docreed2003 (12,508 posts)
3. Interesting take, for sure
The only thing I would say is that take is purely through the lens of his TV shows and not from the perspective of a person who knew Bourdain.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:30 PM
IluvPitties (3,181 posts)
4. Worthy conversation.
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:31 PM
Loki Liesmith (4,294 posts)
5. "Perhaps I should not presume to think I know,"
Article coulda been a lot shorter.
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Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #5)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:32 PM
oberliner (58,724 posts)
6. Was thinking along the same lines
Response to Loki Liesmith (Reply #5)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 11:28 PM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
25. Apparently you were not watching Anthony with any knowledge of....
Alcoholism....or addiction....
Just watch his first year and his last year....it is obvious....he was an admitted addict...and depression had taken over his life . I am still personally reeling from his decision but am professionally confident in my diagnosis ....and wish i could have had a personal relationship With Anthony ![]() |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:32 PM
monmouth4 (7,638 posts)
7. I saw a picture of him once and he was very, very thin. Alkie was my first thought.
RIP dear Anthony..
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Response to monmouth4 (Reply #7)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:27 AM
shanny (6,709 posts)
28. Alkie was your first thought from "very, very thin?"
Every alkie I have known is bloated and pasty. Not a dearth of calories but a surplus of useless ones.
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Response to shanny (Reply #28)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 05:12 AM
Tipperary (6,930 posts)
38. I found that odd too.
Sadly, i know an alcoholic. She is overweight, not morbidly so, but a far cry from the way she used to look.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:33 PM
blue neen (11,567 posts)
8. Conversely, depression brings the alcoholism.
Yep.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:44 PM
yallerdawg (16,104 posts)
9. We watched him drink on TV for 18 years, starting with "A Cook's Tour."
He gave up so many of these vices, including smoking after his daughter was born, maybe his drinking didn't register as just another addiction?
Was he a high-functioning alcoholic who slept nights between silk sheets - possessed by the same alcoholic demons haunting skid-row winos? Ending up more a Hemingway than a Bukowski? Quite possibly. |
Response to yallerdawg (Reply #9)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:11 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
10. His show in Chiang Mai, Thailand had me scratching my head. Most of the show was a constant
stream of drinking...the many charms of the city and area were mainly overlooked as Tony set off to some farm to drink all day and night...my first realization there was something very wrong,
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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:21 PM
yallerdawg (16,104 posts)
12. And any show with his Russian buddy Zamir.
Of course, there's just so much you can do with borscht.
![]() Lot of drinking in Ireland, too (haggis). No drinking in Nambia (raw warthog anus)? Muslim nation? |
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:29 PM
FreeState (9,746 posts)
14. Chang Mai has amazing food
I saw the same episode and didn't have the same reaction. When I was there we spent most of our time eating and drinking too (as did a lot of other folks).
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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:34 PM
eissa (4,003 posts)
22. His San Francisco episode was similar
So many amazing restaurants in this city and he primarily focused on bars.
I adored Bourdain; have all his books, even managed to get one autographed when he gave a talk in my city. But his drinking always made me raise an eyebrow. Knowing his issues with addiction, I always wondered if his drinking was a substitute for it. The link to depression certainly makes sense. Hope he’s at peace now. |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:12 PM
LiberalLoner (7,930 posts)
11. I thought the same thing.
Grew up with family alcoholics. He looked like an active alcoholic to me. It was hard for me to watch without wishing someone would rescue him.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:34 PM
irisblue (24,895 posts)
15. The article reads like it is written for an AA group local paper nt
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:38 PM
H2O Man (65,455 posts)
16. Interesting.
Thank you for this.
I wasn't familiar with him when he was alive, though one of my sons loved his show. But this article is interesting, in a very sad way. Recommended. |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 06:38 PM
gollygee (22,243 posts)
17. People with mental illness often fall victim to drug and alcohol abuse
but the base problem is still mental illness.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:16 PM
Freddie (7,016 posts)
19. My son is a recovering heroin addict
Now working at a rehab facility doing some counseling (among other things) and hoping to go to grad school for counseling or to be a social worker. He's been taught that if your brain is prone to addiction, it doesn't matter what your "vice" is - opiates, cocaine, alcohol - you will become an addict. Alcohol is just harder to OD on (it takes longer).
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:22 PM
Crutchez_CuiBono (7,725 posts)
21. dt brings on alcoholism too.
and depression, and suicide. Outside influences matter. How much is a person supposed to take?
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 07:42 PM
Kaleva (26,687 posts)
23. He was a former heroin and cocaine addict but never heard that he was an alcoholic.
"Anthony Bourdain's Addiction Report Card
Anthony Bourdain has been through a series of addictions—how's he doing? Posted Feb 08, 2014 " https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-in-society/201402/anthony-bourdains-addiction-report-card |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 08:54 PM
Major Nikon (35,153 posts)
24. Speculation regarding possible alcohol addiction does no good
Bourdain admitted to drug addiction, but I’ve seen nothing about him admitting to alcoholism.
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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:00 AM
Eyeball_Kid (5,679 posts)
26. I think that the creator of the thread was inviting discussion on the more general issue.
It's nearly irrelevant whether or not Bourdain was an alcoholic.
But there is nevertheless merit to the notion that many former heroin addicts continue to self-medicate with alcohol. It's an issue that chemical dependency clinics deal with all the time. And yes, both alcohol (dependency or) addiction and heroin addiction are part of a DSM dual diagnosis with various kinds of depression, including "alcoholism depression". |
Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #26)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:58 AM
Major Nikon (35,153 posts)
31. I didn't get that out of the OP
Virtually the entire article was about Bourdain. So while the topic of alcoholism may certainly be worthy of discussion, it's pure speculation as to whether Bourdain even was an alcoholic, much less whether it played any role in his suicide. I just don't see the benefit of injecting him into the discussion when the author clearly doesn't know what role alcohol played in his death if any at all.
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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #31)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:28 AM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
34. Anthony drank major amounts of alcohol in almost every episode...
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Response to pbmus (Reply #34)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 04:33 PM
Major Nikon (35,153 posts)
42. It takes weeks to film an episode
Only 9 or 10 are filmed each year.
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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #24)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:29 AM
smirkymonkey (58,062 posts)
35. Basically, if you are an addict, you will replace one addiction with another.
He probably gave up the drugs and substituted with alcohol. It's pretty common. It sounds like he was a functional alcoholic, but he was still self-medicating an underlying depression. Anyway, it's a very sad story.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:13 AM
grantcart (51,081 posts)
27. Just yesterday The Atlantic published a review of advances on diagnosing alcoholism
Response to grantcart (Reply #27)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:45 AM
ecstatic (28,213 posts)
30. That was interesting. nt
Response to grantcart (Reply #27)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:19 AM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
32. Thanks for a very informative article...
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Response to grantcart (Reply #27)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:33 AM
smirkymonkey (58,062 posts)
36. Interesting article.
Thanks for posting.
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Response to pbmus (Original post)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:36 AM
dvan (55 posts)
29. Alcohol is a drug.
Heroin addicts who take up drinking are playing with fire. Substituting one drug for another is just continuing the addiction. I’ve seen way too many addicts take up drinking because they thought alcohol was different than other drugs. Most ended up right back where they were before, usually worse. Addiction is a progressive disease. I speak from personal experience. It’s not the substance, it’s the disease of addiction that causes the problems. Think how absurd it would be if you heard someone say, “Yeah, I’m an alcoholic, but I can use heroin with no problems!” It’s all the same, street drugs, Rx drugs, alcohol, etc. He was an addict in active addiction.
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Response to dvan (Reply #29)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 01:24 AM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
33. Thank you for your experienced perspective...
And Welcome to DU
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Response to dvan (Reply #29)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 11:10 AM
MoonchildCA (1,140 posts)
39. I agree an addict is an addict.
My father was an alcoholic. He joined AA in the mid 50s, at close to 30 years old, before he was married, and before he had kids. I always said we “grew up in AA.” He and my mom were very involved, it was a whole social network—meetings at our house, churches, retreats. He always identified as an alcoholic, even though he never drank. He was “sober” 50 years.
I saw it though. I had glimpses of my father, the alcoholic. In later years, he had many back and neck surgeries. He was in chronic pain, and I saw the behavior with prescription meds. He could not control it. He would go through a bottle of Vicodin or other pain meds like they were candy. It was pretty bad. He would never admit it to himself, or others. He had a reputation to uphold—he was a respected “old-timer” and a sponsor to so many. I loved my father, he was a great, wise, kind man, my liberal lion. But he was more than an alcoholic, he was an addict. |
Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #39)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:23 PM
pbmus (11,270 posts)
40. Thank you for your honest post....Addiction is a disease...
and we are getting closer to successful treatments....
And Welcome to DU... ![]() |
Response to pbmus (Original post)
Sat Jun 23, 2018, 12:28 PM
Vinca (45,487 posts)
41. That's something I hadn't considered about Anthony Bourdain, but it makes a lot of sense.
For some reason I can't get past being mad at the guy for killing himself. It makes no sense to me since I didn't personally know the man. Wonder if I've subconsciously associated the booze problems from closer to home with Bourdain. Something to think about.
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