Over the moon with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Morning Joe this morning. She was superb.

genuine charisma and vibrancy.

Medicare for all, abolishing ICE... it's not your grandparents Democratic Party anymore!!

She works in HER district but would get crucified in many purple districts. If we're not a big tent, we're done.

Don’t fight the establishments, render the irrelevant, obsolete....

is the only reason the ACA was passed. Stop the bullshit of trying to divide us. Anyone doing that these days brings nothing but scorn and suspicion to me.

if the ACA included a public option / Medicare buy-in or some such? Actual progressive policy instead of warmed-over Heritage Foundation / rMoneyCare? Do you think it would have been more popular? Do you think it would have been so easy to attack?--the mandate, the lack of cost controls, the byzantine details that insurance companies could and did still exploit? Do you think Democratic enthusiasm would have tanked like it did in 2010?

I don't and of course we will never know, now. But it seems to me proposing and then when you can enacting laws that people--and especially your base--actually want is a good thing.

and saw it would have NEVER PASSED. You would never have gotten all the Dems to vote for it. We would have lost the house by even a bigger margin. Any other questions?

then we need better Democrats.

What part of purple districts is too difficult for you to understand. ONE terrific candidate won in a true blue district because the incumbent ignored his constituents and now you want to pull the party to the far left - I hope the party isn't that stupid.

Let me break it down.

We have the right to run for office and vote in this country. If we feel that we or someone else can do a better job it is paramount for us to exercise our right to vote to express that opinion.

Pretending that we need to be republicans to get elected assumes that our values are unpopular. They aren't. Pretending that increased participation in the process is a bad thing is ludicrous.

If anyone should "Just fucking stop it" it should be you with your anti-democracy rhetoric.

see it much yet in Florida where your moniker indicates you're from. This is nothing new. It has nothing to do with "pretending that we need to be republicans". These one-size-fits-all accusations against Democrats are futile. That is not even close to what happened last night.

Who said don't run? Don't put words in my mouth because I disagree with your take on the very minor shakeup that happened last night.

Yes, there are far left positions that ARE wildly unpopular. Like disbanding ICE.

There is nothing anti-democracy about pointing out the result in ONE DISTRICT THAT IS TRUE BLUE means a seismic shift in the party.

I remember when it was a complete shock that Latina Loretta Sanchez beat a white male old GOP'er in Orange County, CA --- about a decade ago. I have to laugh that some don't realize this is inevitable, especially in places like New York, as well.

I believe otherwise.

All I can do with someone as dishonest as to shove words into my mouth is put you on ignore. You're not with my time.

If Democrats cannot vote for our own ideals, we should replace them. Anything less than that is settling for GOP lite. This is what you are inherently advocating when you say the things you did. Hiding from me and this truth won't help you.

Harpooning the public option really helped. Didn’t it.

We did it your way.

Without Pelosi and the Democratic establishment YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANYTHING. Honestly, that was a truly juvenile argument you made.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but she’s not the speaker of the house anymore

if the bill had been further left and many people who now have coverage (at the moment), those who have pre-existing conditions - NONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE HEALTH COVERAGE. Pretending if there was a public option we would have held congress is moronic.

You are correct!

If Democrats won't vote for their own issues, we should replace them with Democrats who will.

We gave them their free market solutions to healthcare and they still called it commie socialism and kicked us out of office anyway

YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN NOTHING are you people having trouble with? Forget the 2010 election. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE ACA PASS - no coverage for pre-existing conditions, no subsidies, NO NOTHING. I'm tired of the purity fucking police screwing up everything - ESPECIALLY TODAY.

And we still would have taken the same beating in 2010.

With a public option, DEMOCRATS IN RED STATES WOULDN'T HAVE VOTED FOR IT. I swear, it's like you're being intentionally dense.

If your platform is to never compromise and only propose single payer, then that is your position. Changing it only to blame Democrats for working within the system as we know it is disingenuous.

And a Medicare buy-in for people who are over 55.

Actually, Bill Clinton proposed letting people buy into Medicare back in the 90s. I think Gore may have even mentioned it in his 2000 campaign, but I am not certain.

I am not certain how much longer the filibuster will last. But I am pretty sure that Democrats won't hesitate to go through budget reconciliation anymore to pass legislation with 50 votes.

In any event, the only way to get more progressive legislation through Congress is to elect more liberal Democrats to the marginal swing districts. That has nothing to do with lawmakers like Joe Crowely, Nancy Pelosi or Chuck Schumer, let alone who is in the White House.

You cannot change the political reality of that timeframe.

Medicare for all, as Bernie has been advocating for years, is the ONLY option!! Alexandria picked up on the same position, along with eradicating ICE, rejecting dirty corporate PAC money, and a whole host of Progressive issues to take down the establishment favorite. They laughed at Alexandria "the waitress" who had campaigned her heart out for Bernie... they're not laughing anymore!! SO damn proud of her!!

can rest on its laurels. It does many good things, but any establishment simultaneously divides ITSELF off from the people. The reason we have a free press and a democracy in the first place is to address grievances.

Besides, THE ESTABLISHMENT should take a deep breath, note the enthusiasm for Cortez, and join HER. The Establishment should join in the healing and the rebuilding. Together, the left, right and center of the Democratic party will defeat the corruoted Republican Party.

ONE bright blue district where the incumbent took his win for granted and didnt' even show up for the debate and you're pretending some seismic shift happened to the country overnight. She should join US - the people who have been in the trenches for decades and learn that what works in her district would be suicide in a purple district.

Cortez got a great victory because she practiced good, solid grassroots politics - and she knew her district.

Just like Conor Lamb did in PA. Did you call for the Democratic Party to be more moderate after his fantastic win.

This is one district. One. I congratulate her but calls for the Party to fall in line is just silly.

on your side. Not to mention, some people are BOTH. Ted Kennedy was a key person in creating ACA. Yet a few years before in the 109th Congress, when the Republicans controlled the Presidency, the Senate and the House, he introduced a single payer plan.

If only the Kennedy wing of the party supported ACA, it would not have passed. In 2009, Baucus, who chaired the Finance Committee and Harkin, who replaced Kennedy as chair of the HELP committee, had to put forward a plan that could get 60 votes. Even though many Republicans actually co-sponsored similar legislation in the past with Bob Dole and others, the Republicans clearly had a caucus wide rule not to vote for the legislation. Not being able to get any Republican votes, they needed every Democratic vote. This gave enormous power to people like Lieberman, Nelson of Nebraska and Lincoln of Arkansas.

I agree with you that the establishment was needed, but in fact, the entire spectrum of the party had to be united to pass the best bill they could get the votes for. Credit goes to everyone -- including people like Baucus and Reid, who DU criticized as they worked to thread the needle to get something that could pass both Houses. Then, after they got a bill passed in the Senate, Scott Brown won the MA seat. This meant that rather than the norm - a Senate/House conference and votes on their compromise bill, the House passed the Senate bill as is - creating ACA. Then, as part of a package, they passed a second bill that made some corrections and fixed problems in the college loan program.

The ONLY reason the ACA passed is because care was taken to make sure those in purple districts and red states could vote for it. So it wasn't a perfect bill. That's what governing looks like. I simply wish that people here would stop pretending that one great candidate in a true blue district (where the incumbent was so lazy and stupid he didn't show up for the debate) means some seismic shift happened in the Democratic party last night.

I think he was not so much lazy or stupid, but insufficiently concerned that he could lose. It may be that he felt that he was well known enough and popular enough in his district that he could blow off the challenge. He actually was in his district at another event at the time of the debate.

One parallel was a similar loss on the Republican side a few years ago. Eric Cantor, was a media favorite, strongly pushed to be a future Speaker -- when he lost to Representative Brat, a tea partier, who argued he spent little time in his district and was more interested in moving ahead in the party.

I hope I conveyed the respect that I have for Reid/Baucus who really threaded a needle there and were able to pass legislation - even though there was only a narrow interval of 4 months where we had 60 Senators -- and only because Kennedy wrote asking the MA legislature to change the law changed in 2004 to allow Patrick to immediately pick an interim Senator and Kerry argued for it before the MA legislature which changed the 2004 law. Otherwise that seat would have been vacant for those 4 months.

that. When will she be calling for him to build over his position and attacking him for that? It would be interesting to see them debate that issue, lol.

Good grief! Oh yes, it's a fucking groundswell! I wonder how she'd do in West Virginia?

Oh, please! This isn't the earth-shattering event that you're trying to make it out to be. I have to let you know that it's not all that you're imagining. It's local, and it reflects changing demographics.

Ooo! How exciting! Clap harder! Clap harder!

that. Bernie's position is presumably because of his focus on white working class voters, mostly those Reagan Democrats who don't like identity politics and only want to talk about their jobs and their own immediate needs.

It would be interesting to see Ocasia Cortez debate Bernie on that issue. She goes on the Jimmy Dore show, so maybe they can debate on Thom Hartmann or Jimmy Dore's show...

In fact, her own ad explained her biography as someone who was of the community and had faced challenges like theirs. Her argument was that she could better represent what that district had become.

She clearly is unusually charismatic and worked very hard for this victory, but it is possible that she might not have won had Crowley taken the challenge more seriously. I have no idea if it had an effect, but the NYT oped criticizing him for not coming to a debate, but sending a surrogate could have been a major blow. I suspect that the district changing to majority minority population and the low approval rating of Congress as it is also hurt. Yet, if she won for being seen as one of "them" in Queens, she clearly would not be seen as someone like the people of West Virginia.

One issue that may resonate everywhere is that there is too much money that "buys" elections. While she criticized her opponent, the problem is the system which essentially forces Congresspeople to raise a lot of money to fund there campaigns. This has been an issue for decades. You can find comments from people like Feingold, Kerry and Wellstone when McCain/Feingold was passed (Kerry/Wellstone was a stronger bill) that spoke of the problem of big money buying access (if not control) to legislators. This was the topic that Kerry chose to spend the most time speaking on when he gave his last Senate speech when he was leaving to become SoS. This is NOT "just" a Bernie Sanders issue.

This issue and the growing economic inequality are both big issues. Again, this is not JUST a Sanders issue. Over the last decade or so, almost every mainstream Democrat has spoken against the various tax cuts for the wealthy.

We can not let the fact that Trump dishonestly used those issues - which should be Democratic issues, Republican issues - against Clinton. If we allow that history to distort the fact that it has been the Republicans, who cut taxes on the wealthy including the estate tax ... and allow the idea that the increasing income inequality to be labelled as a fringe, democratic socialist, Sanders idea, we lose what should be an issue that favors us. I don't know how we heal that wound, but it might be by Hillary Clinton speaking on both the campaign financing and the income inequality issue. This would be good to heal the rift in our party. Of course, this should be done saying only things Hillary Clinton believes.

I think we will hear elder statesmen like Obama, Kerry and Biden speak on these issues that have always been things they spoke about.

No one has been accused of saying those words. But it's very clear that's what the subtext is behind this "in-your-face" and "take-that!" type of disproportionate celebratory enthusiasm. There can be no other interpretation when people are gloating (warning?) that it's "not your grandfather's party," and expressing desires that we need more of her nationwide, as if she's the prototype savior of the Democratic party. (We've seen that before and it didn't go very well.)

she speaks for the forgotten middle class. Schumer and Pelosi better be paying close attention... this was a seismic political shift... about damn time!!

And, yes, Medicare for all... damn straight! Gee, I wonder why all serious candidates are adopting Bernie's position on healthcare as a human right and now pushing for Medicare for all... hmmm.

Oh, as for ICE, yes, it's time to abolish that terrorist organization run by Nazis who kidnap children and place them in internment camps... it's disgusting!! Absolutely time to take down ICE... good for Alexandria, leading the way on that issue!!

Yup, I'm clappin alright...

HA! :-D

No it wasn't.

Oh brother! Clap harder! Clap harder!

If such a thing ever happened, that would guarantee that the seat would be won by ANY Republican challenger.

All I'm saying is that Vermont-style and NY-liberal politicians don't play well in West Virginia. It's absurd to think otherwise... and anyone who makes such a claim only damages their overall credibility and how people perceive their judgement and intelligence.



PS: Psssssst! --> https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10794734

especially those living in low socio-economic areas like West Virginia. Otherwise, you're playing right into the Rethugs' hands.

Oooo goody! Clap harder!! Clap harder!!

No I'm not.

What's actually "playing into their hands" is when someone thinks it's a good idea to hand over the seat to the GOP by indulging in their own vanity... by running the most "ideologically perfectly pure" candidate who can NEVER win an statewide election.

But hey... clap harder! I'm sure there's a lot of self-satisfaction and pride to be had for being able to vote for the purest candidate who loses the election to the Republican. Never mind the loss of the seat... at least people got to send a message (that will be promptly ignored or forgotten by the winner.)

new and different....just said with a different voice and fresh face. I personally feel experience matters.. esp when it comes to the dangerous times we are in. A big CONGRATS to her and I wish her well in her future endeavors but im not discounting the tried and true. Experience matters. Experience REALLY matters. Especially now.

the positions Alexandria had smartly taken after being mentored by Bernie. But, glad at least you believe all Democrats think that way... they should!!

Solid showing by Ocasio. No need to make fun of those acting like she just saved the world. She has a promising future.

My bad for reading you wrong.

What does any of this have to do with her race? Seems some are still shocked when a competent POC achieves something. They must be Presidential like.

Sorry you took such offence.

woman of colour, and its is not that I am surprised at all, it just is very satisfying to see more of us enter into the American political arena. I also am 23, so it is really energising to see someone near my age make a run at, and probably win a House seat.

All day long, when I watch American telly from abroad (I am back and forth between Sweden, Denmark and London), read this chat-board, read news articles, all I see is racist knobs and Trumpkins and hate and murderous coppers. I wears on my soul, so I take cheer in whatever small positive moments I see.

...keeping a positive attitude, a sense of possibility, despite the naysayers. (Not to sound patronizing, but the naysayers need hugs and a few more exposures to that Cortez smile and laser focus.

We need youth and vitality. Not a bunch of has beens whose major concern is if their Depends are going to hold.

a low-level, dead-end House position... yeah riiiight! Oh, and let's not forget, she needs to be properly "groomed" and "mentored" before she's ready to assume higher office. Guess Obama should have waited too?! I think NOT!!

Alexandria was working as a server/bartender part time just 7 to 9 months ago, although she does have a lot of community organising experience. Give her time. I am totally FOR her, I just do not expect a 'just add water and microwave' POTUS (she is 7 years too young to even run for POTUS atm).

You are beyond your ken on this one, I am afraid, but feel free to disagree with me.

Cheers

that she beat Crowley. There are many here. I am thrilled she won.

Politics are local, she is more in touch with the current demography of her district.

I am simply saying give her time. She certainly cannot be a Senator before 2028. Is going to beat Shumer in 2022 when he is hopefully THE LEADER OF THE SENATE?

Or take on Gillibrand who is the most LW voting Senator atm? Gillibrand is the ONLY Senator who voted against every Trump nominee. Ocasio-Cortez would be committing electoral seppuku.

She has set an example for how the Democratic Party should conduct itself... I predict this OUTSTANDING young Latina politician, who PROUDLY expouses a pro-Progressive line, WITHOUT APOLOGY, absolutely WILL be President one day!! Count on it!!

I see what you are doing.

Agree. She should be President.
Cannot be in 2020, but she will qualify in 2024.

Expect her typical mocking post with 20 soon.

this day...family too. She will be lucky to re-elected...very tough district...run by old time bosses for years...yeah it was surprising she won but according to my family...she is going to do something about unaffordable housing...that is so not happening in Washington and in two years there will be many vying for her seat. Now I am not predisposed to like her because I hate Sarandon and OR who endorsed her, but I don't live in this district and a Democrat replaced a Democrat. I sincerely hope she and all Democrats do well. We need more not less of every kind of Democrat to stop the Trump monster attempting to destroy our country. Hopefully, she will be a unifying and hardworking member of our party and do great things.

and, thus, will get reelected EASILY... but, obviously, only time will tell. I trust, based on her fervent Progressive politics, that she will represent her constituents well, with honor and distinction.

She knows she's party responsible for getting donnie elected by giving him all that FREE airtime. It wasn't until donnie insulted HER personally (the facelift tweet) that turned her and joe around. Screw them.

I'm starting to think she's jealous.

But idiot Mika kept trying to grab all the attention, and, of course, bash Democrats.

so confusing

They didn't have to book her on the show but they did! All morning long they were promoting NON-STOP that her appearance LIVE, ON SET would be coming up!

When she was on the set, they genuinely welcomed and congratulated her! They asked her thoughtful questions, and gave her all the time she wanted to respond.

Mika was very impressed and said this young woman articulated in 30 seconds a great message that other Democrats should learn from. Mika said she was "bad-ass".

They even brought on Steve Kornacki as an analyst specifically for her segment! Everyone on the set was smiling, congratulating her and wishing her success. The national exposure 'Morning Joe' gave her is priceless!

But for some, it's never fucking enough. It's all or nothing. Gotta have purity. 'Cuz Mika might have said something non-complementary about Hillary at some time. That's about as stupid as but...but...what about her emails.

pisses me off...

...but if she feels she wants to appeal to the third way, conservative Democrat types who watch that show to convince all the hand wringing cowards that she's not some radical extremist monster then good for her.

women and minorities.

Link to tweet

Guess I missed that

And no, as a presidential candidate, campaigning on abolishing ICE would have unwise. That order would politically need to originate in congress, and she would have been called an autocrat for proposing that. She did, however present a very comprehensive immigration plan to the left of Obama.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/

Her statements that "women's rights are human rights" distinguishes her from other politicians who eschew "identity politics."

A presidential platform does necessarily differ from any congressperson's platform in that the tactics to get to the *goals* are different.

Pretty much everything else there - yes, HRC goals - debt free college, green jobs, paid family leave, green energy by 2035.

but I think you already know that

And yes I know that.

LOL

Universal Health Care Coverage is the goal.

Defunding Planned Parenthood wins big in GOP primaries. That doesn't mean that it's based in good health policy analysis.

https://www.urban.org/research/publication/sanders-single-payer-health-care-plan-effect-national-health-expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending

It just means that it's a great slogan that gets people enthused, when they don't really understand health policy, which is complicated. It's good political marketing.

And "Medicare for All" as per Sanders isn't really very much like Medicare, especially in terms of how it's funded, and not what voters are actually supporting.

https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/voters-who-like-medicare-for-all-may-not-like-single-payer.html

Medicare for All...even if we had the votes for the 60 we would need as it would be too big to be done in reconciliation...we have the courts...right wing courts who will make sure that we don't get any sort of health care. We are years aways from the majority needed to pass medicare for all...and will lose the ACA... which will kill thousands perhaps millions in the end...we made a huge mistake in not fighting for the ACA and putting Medicare for all on the back burner to be done incrementally-first a public option...it was our only chance for universal care.

ICE was formed from different agencies, and serves other functions than enforcement of illegal immigrants.

"The agencies that were either moved entirely or merged in part into ICE included the investigative and intelligence resources of the United States Customs Service, the criminal investigative, detention and deportation resources of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Federal Protective Service. The Federal Protective Service was later transferred from ICE to the National Protection and Programs Directorate effective October 28, 2009. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement

ICE also handles customs, investigation of human trafficking, counterterrorism, processing green card applications and student visas.

One would have to rehouse those other agencies, and keep border security in some form. Contrary to what the GOP says, "open borders" is not the only alternative to reforming the immigration situation.

I'm sure that there wasn't room on the flyer for her to go into how she would manage all this, or what her plan was past the election, but I hope that she has done far more research and consultation with non-partisan experts who work in the area of immigration, customs and visa than was done for Medicare for All plan in its current form.

for every woman on the Democratic Ballot this August and November.

And it's proven again and again with impressive primary wins by progressives.

When Barack Obama announced he was going to run for President, way back when, I remember reading on message boards- I wasn't a member on DU- but I was member on other message boards. I remember other folks saying he was a Junior Senator- not enough experience - He needs to wait his turn and let Hillary have her shot, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah .
This wringing of hands and regarding her win.
is troubling to me. I don't get this entitlement

.

of a large and powerful part of the Democratic Party. She represents the potential for new growth.

Recommended.

Congratulations to her.

...and people wonder why we fail to generate excitement.

What would it hurt any of these people downplaying or outright demeaning her victory to just shut the fuck up and be happy that we will have a more liberal representative of a solidly blue, liberal district? Especially since they are all the same people who lecture us about how we need to be nice to the conservative Dems in red states and red districts?

If you're not happy about it because it puts the smallest of chips in your third way, neo-liberal armor then too fucking bad.

It's just amazing how the "DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT DEMS AFTER THE PRIMARY IS OVER!!!!" crowd changes their tune right quick.