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Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:30 PM

 

Can someone explain a "general strike" to the self-employed?


Does one just say to one’s customers, “I’m not doing the work you paid me for?” Do you keep their advance payments, or return them? Would issuing refunds on advance retainers be “working”?

Asking for a friend.

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Reply Can someone explain a "general strike" to the self-employed? (Original post)
jberryhill Jun 2018 OP
ret5hd Jun 2018 #1
jberryhill Jun 2018 #5
ret5hd Jun 2018 #7
fallout87 Jun 2018 #16
ret5hd Jun 2018 #17
NurseJackie Jun 2018 #26
ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #2
jberryhill Jun 2018 #3
ProudLib72 Jun 2018 #4
jberryhill Jun 2018 #10
joshcryer Jun 2018 #6
jberryhill Jun 2018 #11
joshcryer Jun 2018 #12
PSPS Jun 2018 #8
joshcryer Jun 2018 #13
ret5hd Jun 2018 #20
standingtall Jun 2018 #22
joshcryer Jun 2018 #24
Hekate Jun 2018 #9
joshcryer Jun 2018 #14
jberryhill Jun 2018 #18
joshcryer Jun 2018 #21
Hekate Jun 2018 #23
LeftInTX Jun 2018 #35
jberryhill Jun 2018 #15
joshcryer Jun 2018 #25
greatauntoftriplets Jun 2018 #19
applegrove Jun 2018 #28
applegrove Jun 2018 #27
jberryhill Jun 2018 #29
applegrove Jun 2018 #30
jberryhill Jun 2018 #31
applegrove Jun 2018 #32
jberryhill Jun 2018 #33
applegrove Jun 2018 #34
meadowlander Jun 2018 #36
GeorgeGist Jun 2018 #37
dembotoz Jun 2018 #38
Tipperary Jun 2018 #39

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:49 PM

1. If you don't want to join, just say so and be done with it.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #1)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:58 PM

5. And tell those dialysis patients to just hold it in for another day

 

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:00 PM

7. Just say "No not me" and stop whining.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:21 PM

16. How about you

 

stop attacking people who cannot do this and still support their families?

Just tell them to go be homeless and stop whining.

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Response to fallout87 (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:22 PM

17. Just say no. I don't see what you're going on and on about.

Is all you're wanting is everyone else to agree with you?

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:50 PM

26. Nobody is whining.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:51 PM

2. You work for the man, so strike against yourself!

I want to know when this general strike is going to occur.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:53 PM

3. Which man would that be?

 

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:55 PM

4. You! You tha "man"!

Actually, I found this general strike site: https://www.usgeneralstrike.org/

I don't know if this why everyone keeps going on about it.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:07 PM

10. Okay

 

That site says “no purchases - prepare in advance” presumably to mean simply shifting purchases one would otherwise have made, thus having zero net economic impact.

Then it says “purchase local” presumably from persons who are not likewise striking?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 10:59 PM

6. Wouldn't that just be you refusing to work under the market rate anymore for a service?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #6)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:09 PM

11. Well it would certainly mean other people losing their rights

 


Sorry Judge, I’d love to defend my client today, but that’s just not happening.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:14 PM

12. I think the judge would just send you to jail for contempt...

...and replace you with someone else in that case, heh.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:03 PM

8. It's an obsolete idea, at least in the US

Back when there were unions and most people had hourly jobs in a factory or an office, such a thing might be possible and have an effect. Today, there are no unions and we have a "gig economy." Real life isn't like the movies.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #8)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:15 PM

13. Wildcat strikes are illegal in the US, banned since the NLRA was created in '35.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:24 PM

20. Unions ( as an organization) are. Members can do what they want

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:26 PM

22. Not sure that is accurate there two different variations of a wildcat srike

One is where union members go on strike without the permission of the leadership of the union. The other is for workers without a union to go on strike. Would never happen in America, but if there were a massive general strike it would make a significant impact.

If just a hand for of workers go on strike especially the ones without a union they would just get fired and that would be the end of it.

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Response to standingtall (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:41 PM

24. Therin lies the rub.

You need the union to call for the strike (obviously as a last recourse) and all members should comply.

The ruling about not having to pay dues makes it so that the unions power to call for such a strike weaker and weaker. They won't be able to get word out to everyone, they won't be able to organize events, etc. Without people increasingly having to pay a disproportionate share. At some point the union won't be able to operate and its effectiveness will weaken.

If you could convince every Wal-Mart employ to walk out tomorrow they could easily negotiate a pay raise. It doesn't matter what the law says, the logistics of hiring hundreds of thousands of new employees is simply impossible, and not worth it given the money lost in such an act.

An aside: if that were to happen Wal-Mart would just go full automation and get rid of the people entirely. The days of dreaming about the workers rising up are long over. Automation is coming.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:05 PM

9. What no one has ever explained is how to get Americans to actually go on a General Strike...

It seems to be a European thing. Have we ever had one here?

How does one organize such a thing? I know how to organize a march in my hometown, and I have a good idea how a March on Washington is put together -- but how do you get the whole country to agree to go on strike, walk off their jobs, and all that?

How do the French do it? Is there something magically in the air, and a secret password is announced over the radio, and poof! They all leave their workplaces?

In all the years I've been here I've never had any of the people calling for a General Strike in the US ever explain how it is supposed to come to pass.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:18 PM

14. You just get fired if you strike.

With zero recourse. So no one does it because it means 100% that you lose your job and you probably won't work in that job again.

Some teachers did do a strike in the US this year and it resulted in their pay being increased and the kids getting vacation. But their jobs were kind of irreplaceable so just as a matter of reality, as long as you get together, you can make change happen.

If they could've been replaced though they would've been.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:23 PM

18. You know why teachers have good unions?

 


For the same reason they are teachers.

It’s because they are smart, and we should learn things from them.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:25 PM

21. Yeah, but now they don't gotta pay dues.

So there's that.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:31 PM

23. Pretty much what I thought. In the 21st Century, there is no job security and workers ...

...are interchangeable units. The gig economy is one of the most destructive ideas I have ever seen put in place in my lifetime.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #14)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 01:21 AM

35. How do you convince Republicans to go on strike??????

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Response to Hekate (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:21 PM

15. In general

 


There are countries in which unions are certainly more institutionalized, and in which unions will operate in solidarity.

These actions also have a definite goal in mind, and are not usually a mass expression of being pissed off in general.

Completing the sentence “We aren’t going back to work until _______” is typically helpful in determining whether the strike has been successful in accomplishing its goal.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:49 PM

25. You may be interested in "Comparisons in Labor Law: Sweden and the United States"

I was wondering, after the latest decision, why it is that Scandinavian countries have 90%+ union membership and the US doesn't. From my reading it simply boils down to how the US does it administratively, and how the NRLB gives American workers more control over management and other details of a companies operation (Labor Management Relations Act). In Scandinavian countries the unions can only negotiate wage, hours, and strictly economic matters.

It seems good for a union to be able to meddle in non-economic matters in theory, but it obviously hasn't worked in practice. I think I have an idea why but I can't put my finger on it. It seems to me that it causes reason for conflict between the union, its members, and the companies. And it seems naturally American that we had to set up a conflict prone system.

If you don't want to read the whole thing just search "management" in the document... really cool overview: https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1100&context=bjell

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:23 PM

19. I'm retired.

Should I got on strike from doing nothing?

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Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:56 PM

28. Just don't shop.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Jun 27, 2018, 11:56 PM

27. Maybe the self employed like that pre-existing conditions are covered under

Obama care. You could explain that to your clients.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #27)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 12:14 AM

29. Certainly.

 

In fact, I would not have insurance otherwise.

But I think they might be curious to know why not doing what they paid me for has any connection to keeping my health insurance.

In what way does not doing their work prevent the prospective loss of my health insurance?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #29)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 12:26 AM

30. You are fighting for your country. And your life. They should understand.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #30)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 12:41 AM

31. Explain this to me like I'm five years old

 


So, I refuse to do their work, which generally involves protecting their legal rights, on the premise that by refusing to do their work, it will somehow impact the probability of keeping my health insurance?

An 81 year old man decided to retire, therefore a general strike will meaningfully change the results of that fact how?

And the strike continues until what condition has been satisfied?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #31)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 12:48 AM

32. It is a strike for a day. It is the principle. And yes Trump and the GOP

are talking about going after Medicare and Medicaid. I assume you have a family who you want to have healthcare available to them in all the eras of their lives. Try that.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #32)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 01:04 AM

33. And not working for a day prevents this how?

 


I guess I’m not asking the question clearly.

I could understand something like “donate a day’s income” to an organization or political campaign that would have some meaningful connection to and impact upon those policy outcomes.

I do not understand how a general strike alters those policy outcomes.

When I was in the single digit grades, a court ordered a desegregation plan for our county schools. The situation in our county was that school districts were based on historically discriminatory housing and real estate practices. A sizeable group of white students at my school from obviously racist families took umbrage at this, and determined to stage a walkout. I didn’t understand at all why they believed that walking out of school had any meaningful connection to their dissatisfaction with the court decision, and I still don’t.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #33)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 01:15 AM

34. Shows the corporations the people have the ultimate power in the end.

That people can organize even though the levers of power seem to be in one sides hands. A nightmare situation for any corporation is losing half their customer base which could happen. They can then pass that information on to the politicians they partially control.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 01:38 AM

36. It's the same as a general strike to anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_strike

"A general strike (or mass strike) is a strike action in which a substantial proportion of the total labour force in a city, region, or country participates. General strikes are characterised by the participation of workers in a multitude of workplaces, and tend to involve entire communities." [Emphasis added]

If you can't, or don't want to, participate, you don't have to. It's more about showing the 1% that if they choose to hijack the government for their purposes, the 99% of the population that gets things done can effectively shut the economy down.

If you want an example of how it works, look at the events leading up to the general strike in the Czech Republic during the Velvet Revolution:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

The nurses walked out, then the students, artists, media figures, then the other unions, then the rest of the population. One month in, it was supported by 75% of the population.

It just takes a few unions, allied with students, allied with the free press to get the ball rolling.

And there have been general strikes in the US in the past, notably Philadelphia in 1835, St Louis in 1877, New Orleans in 1892 and 1907, New York in 1909, Seattle in 1919, San Francisco and Minneapolis in 1934, Oakland in 1946. The problem is that the history of the labor movement isn't taught in schools.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 02:38 AM

37. Tell your friend ...

It's not about him.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 05:21 AM

38. Just take the day off..one of the reasons I am self-employed

My calendar is mine

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2018, 07:27 AM

39. Is a strike planned?

I guess I missed the memo.

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