Why the heck are we not celebrating Mexico's

[busterbrown]

first leftist President who will take office on Monday. I remember so well when he ran twice before against 2 corrupt right wing con jobs..He lost twice which really upset me.. (I'm not of Mexican descent) but when he ran the 1st time I think it was during The Bush first Term.. I was desperate for good news, thought he was gonna win and sadly he lost.. I have not followed Mexico's last 2 elections.. And then I wake up yesterday and I am reading that Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, was overwhelmingly elected President of Mexico..

Am I wrong to think this huge? This shit is spectacular! Here's the Skinny!

By the way I feel he'll have his way with our idiot in chief...They've already talked

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/new-mexico-leader-in-great-first-talk-with-trump/ar-AAzv9SQ

[marylandblue]

1. He's been pilloried in the US press as a left-wing populist like Hugo Chavez

I don't know much about him, but I read so little positive that I suspect a targeted campaign against him. That's probably why a lot of people are not celebrating here. I just hope all the bad press is wrong.

[DonViejo]

3. I haven't seen that comparison, but I have seen him

described as a "left wing Trump."

[shanny]

16. It's a smear

that requires believing tRump is actually a populist instead of just playing one on TV.

[JI7]

2. Because of his lack of support for lgbt and women's rights

[busterbrown]

4. Please post some info..

concerning your response.

[Kaleva]

9. Here's a link to one article

"He has also forged an electoral alliance with a socially conservative party founded by evangelical Christians, which could end up claiming 10% of the seats in Congress. "

"But Amlo’s positions on marriage equality and abortion have stirred disquiet among the LGBT community and women’s groups. "

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/mexico-election-candidates-avoid-stances-on-same-sex-marriage-and-abortion

[busterbrown]

35. Here's another..

https://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Mexico-s-Lopez-Obrador-sets-7-5-billion-for-13049448.php

[Kaleva]

43. I don't see how that addresses the concerns of those fighting for lgbt and women's rights

[msongs]

5. maybe we should see how he governs before we get all excited nt

[MineralMan]

6. Because most of us know little

about Mexican politics, and aren't that interested in learning. Heck, most of us know little enough about our own government, frankly...

[busterbrown]

8. It seems to me that Mexico is completely unhinged..

Its frightening reading about the gangs, the corruption, crooked police the murders.. i realize that this is mostly in the impoverished areas.. but still its alarming!

What do you think? Sad that we know so little..

I was following Obrador a lot during his previous runs for presidency.. He seemed to be the real deal back then.

[sheshe2]

31. For a brief moment.

Its frightening reading about the gangs, the corruption, crooked police the murders

I thought you were describing Trump and the cronies he hires...his connections to Putin and the entire GOP party. My bad.

[greytdemocrat]

11. You are damn right.

[Thomas Hurt]

7. As with others here, I don't know much at all bout this guy...

and I am going to wait and see....you can talk big about ending corruption.......just like the Pig.

If he does take it on in a serious way....well he better watch his back.

[GulfCoast66]

10. Until just a few years ago there was real support on DU for Chavez and even Maduro

Leftist can be susceptible to demagoguery if it covers itself in language we understand.

Populism and Nationalism never ends well. Left or right. 2 peas in a pod.

Mexico’s new president? Get back with me in a year or so. Till then the jury is out.

[shanny]

13. NO. Populism does not equal Nationalism. eom

[GulfCoast66]

15. I politely disagree

Populist are nationalist in sheeps clothing.

And some our biggest populist have been awful. Wilson, Huey Long. I could add others.

FDRs most poisonous opponents were Democratic populists.

Name one populist who has added to civic virtue.

[shanny]

17. Bernie is a populist.

Please define what you mean by "added to civic virtue."

[radius777]

18. He's also an economic nationalist and isolationist

like Trump, who also mythologizes the rural white working class.

Populism and nationalism are intertwined idelogies that are basically the same thing.

[shanny]

19. not even going to dignify that with an argument

[SidDithers]

38. 'Cause you can't...nt

Sid

[arthritisR_US]

40. I was going to say the thing.

[GulfCoast66]

21. Walked into that one didn't he/she. Good response

I can’t believe all these self described nationalist/populist/progressives who have not spent even 15 minutes studying the rather sordid 130 year old history of people who self identify as those terms.

Just call me a liberal.

My dad was a Southern FDR Democrat. Huey Long gave him all the progressive/populist bullshit he ever needed.

[UTUSN]

22. *With* you!

[radius777]

26. Agree, especially since JFK, the party is less populist left

and more cosmopolitan left, in that it sees itself as part of a global context that values strong foreign alliances, wants trade as along it is fair trade, sees progress as a partnership between business/academia/institutions and social justice and labor reform movements. It values technology, infrastructure and the global village concept that works to inspire and bring people together.

JFK, Bill and Obama's presidencies all followed that same mold... it's basically what a modern-day Democrat is.

[GulfCoast66]

28. I do not disagree at all.

But that is the party FDR built. JFK was just continuing his legacy. Only a man who had experienced the depression, CCC, WPA and the huge government effort to win WWII could dream of a man on the moon.


FDR, JFK, LBJ and hell, even Goldwater all gave short shrift to populist and nationalist. They recognize the dangers they presented.

[Recursion]

36. Kingfish, unfortunately, was 100% right, which is why I distrust populism

He said "If you could limit it to the white population, America would happily be the most advanced social democracy in the world". Yep.

Populism in the US is always white nationalism dressed up as class consciousness, and that leopard never changes it spots, no matter how well-intentioned it starts out.

[GulfCoast66]

24. I agree. Bernie is a populist

[shanny]

27. Lol

Got an answer for my question?

[GulfCoast66]

30. I already have. You will find your answer in the last 8 or so post on this thread.

[shanny]

33. Your apparent disdain for common people

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2018, 01:28 AM - Edit history (1)

is noted. Remember when Rahm Emanuel called leftie positions fucking retarded (very civil of him wouldn't you say?) and wondered who else they would vote for? The 8 million Obama-to-Trump voters had an answer. Listen, Liberal.

Buh-bye

[GulfCoast66]

37. Populism has nothing to do with lefty positions

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2018, 09:27 AM - Edit history (1)

And you insinuating that populism lured millions from Obama to Trump makes my point because Obama was no populist. President Obama had no scapegoat short of bad republican policy. Populist always do. It can be Mexicans and NAFTA, Chinese and TPP, Blacks and Afirmitive Action. I could go on. Hell, it can be Millionaires and Billionaires.

Anytime a politician blames our problem any one group of people alarm bells should go off.

[SidDithers]

39. ...

Sid

[appalachiablue]

32. A couple recent threads I read implied he was the 'Bernie

Sanders' of Mexico after Greg Palast discussed his election on Thom Hartmann's program. I didn't see that.

The comments I saw weren't so favorable.

[UTUSN]

25. Around here, criticizing AMLO is considered an attack on "Populism" in the abstract.

AMLO is an actual human who has a personality, a belief system, and a track record, did not pop out of nowhere as a poster child. Will somewhat disagree withyou that "the jury is out." I, with almost all DUers, knew what was coming down the pike with Shrub in 1999 and with SHITLER in '16 (although we didn't imagine SHITLER really taking power).

AMLO is not an abstraction.

[Voltaire2]

12. I celebrated.

[shanny]

14. I celebrated too.

So did my Mexican friends. Wanna know why? Because nothing could be worse than the crap they have been subjected to. That may sound like a trumpist justification but it is not. AMLO is in fact a populist, he doesn't just play one on TV. Whether he can prevail against the headwinds is another question, but the people are behind him. We'll see.

[UTUSN]

20. Not looking for (more) Flames

Last edited Thu Jul 5, 2018, 10:24 AM - Edit history (3)

First, to clear the ground, here's a Vox article for basic information: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/6/30/17514176/mexico-2018-president-electioen-lopez-obrador

More ground to clear: AMLO is *not* an abstraction. He is an actual entity of the human variety, with a personality, belief system (giving benefit of doubt), *AND* a decades long track record. He's not popping from nowhere.

And, coming from me (not from "U.S. media" ), criticism (or just evaluation) of him is NOT an attack on "Populism" or "Socialism" or other abstract ideology: It's a critique of HIM, the same as "attacks" on SHITLER. And I love all stripes of my DU/Democratic camaraderos, including the most idealistic (of which I am one).

AND, criticizing HIM is not calling him HITLER.

He's a charismatic, rabble rousing, christ-[Messiah]identifying fellow, who thinks he can rule and fix everything by himself, like SHITLER.

Perhaps he will fight some corruption; perhaps he will dole cash like Evita PERON; perhaps, even, his heart is in the right place.

*******RECAP of news of the past few days: His Sunday night's victory speech was impressive for its nobility, saying stuff like he will not be a despot, will not tax to the skies, wants to serve everybody, fine.

Anecdotal: I'm not a Phd of any sort (specifically, not in "Latin American" studies or whatever), but know some close friends in Mexico. I learned that unlike here, with the several/few-more political parties than here, they don't do one-party sworn loyalty from birth, are Cafeteria voters for picking and choosing which party is saying things more to their current liking. When Vicente FOX (great guy) brought his PAN party to the forefront, my friends (small, but prosperous middle class business owners) voted ecstatically for him, detesting the old PRI (70 yrs in power) and AMLO with equal disdain. They considered AMLO as a wild-eyed radical. My impression was (I'm sure I will be corrected) that FOX/PAN were business/"honest", Catholic oriented (I'm a Center-Left secular humanist, not business/Catholic - PRI was secular despite corruption). After him, CALDERON (PAN) seemed similarly educated, dignified, honest, but seemed like people just didn't like him. But AMLO continued to be (spit on the floor).

So imagine my surprise, when this time around, after PENA Nieto (PRI) redux, my middle class/ business friends were WILD ABOUT AMLO!1

In my gobsmack, I asked them how they could possibly go from one end of the spectrum to the other. They said that AMLO has "changed" and "LEARNED".

So more news lately: AMLO says he is going to spend 7.5 billions in his first year on unemployed youth and the elderly, fine. That this cash will come out of cuts in the government, "even if we are left shirtless." Fine.

He also dismissed bodyguards, saying that "the people will protect me." Fine, good luck. But it fits his martyr complex.

I'm sure I will be corrected flammably here.

[roamer65]

23. He doesn't take office on Monday.

He is president-elect until 1 December 2018.

[roamer65]

29. This is just stupid on his part. Completely foregoing presidential security.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mexico-president-lopez-obrador-security-1.4732452

[Tatiana]

34. It's huge and I'm happy.

The country has been run by the PRI forever. Time for someone different.

Most importantly, he is strongly anti-Trump. We will be squeeze by our neighbors on either side, which will hopefully help us in overthrowing our own authoritarian tyrant.

[Demsrule86]

41. The fear is he will be a dictator. We shall have to see what happens.

[NCTraveler]

42. Because it was nothing unexpected.

And “populism” isn’t half as cool as people think.

I would rather work to put down the two wings of “populism” grabbing hold in this country.