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DFW

(54,050 posts)
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:11 PM Jul 2018

A July Fourth celebration on the Rhein River. What the Germans think about us now

Amerika Haus, e.V. is an organization founded after the war for cultural rapprochement, and for furthering understanding and friendship. I was invited to join last year after Howard Dean spoke here at a seminar they organized. They organized a July Fourth party at the Long Island Bar and Grill in Cologne on the shore of the Rhein.

There were quite a few people there, and some of them gave some great speeches. One was by the outgoing American Consul general in Düsseldorf, Michael Keller. He gave his talk in fluent German. A Thomas Jefferson fan who was born in Virginia, as I was, he is moving to Charlottesville, so if anyone on DU is involved with UVA or Monticello, look him up. He'll be there as of the fall. I shudder to think who will be his replacement. I was talking with (another German who shall remain nameless-I know Republicans troll DU). He had recently met with Trump's new ambassador, the cretin who had said he was here to promote far right movements (and caused calls for his removal all over Germany). He said Trump's ambassador was "interesting." I remarked that if I had had the chance to meet Hitler, I supposed I would have found him "interesting," too, but not necessarily pleasant. He diplomatically said, "well, you said it, I didn't."

The mayor of Köln (Cologne) was there, and she gave a great speech, too. She said our friendship and respect was stronger than anything the Trump disaster could rend asunder. She said she was saddened to hear high school kids looking forward to their high school year abroad (encouraged here in Germany) say about the prospect of studying in the USA, "no, I don't think I want to go there right now." THIS is what the Republicans have done to us.

The mayor of Düsseldorf, whom I knew from last fall when Howard and I had dinner with him, was there, too, made a few obligatory jokes about the rivalry between Düsseldorf and Köln. Düsseldorf is about 30 miles up the river.

There was also a brief performance by a German classical guitarist who had known Leonard Bernstein. I asked him if he knew a famous conductor I know, who had been Bernstein's assistant and companion for nearly two decades, and of course he did.

There were people from industry, politics, cultural organizations, quite a mix. Even a young American woman from N'awlins living in Hamburg and trying to do a tech start-up here.

Since my wife had to cancel at the last minute, I invited a friend along who had been Moscow station chief for West German Radio News for five years. He met MANY people who had either heard him on the radio back when, or knew people he did, and he had a much better time than he thought possible.

All in all, I can tell you that the broad cross-section of educated German society represented there has by NO means given up on us, and they realize that the current regime making such a mess in Washington right now does NOT represent America, not really.

It was a really positive vibe I took away from there. As we were about to leave, the cultural director said we had to stay for another 15 minutes. I said OK, and we got treated to a nice fireworks display on set up for us on the other side of the Rhein.

Afterward, my friend and I decided to walk back to the train station, as it didn't seem so far away. OOPS. It took 45 minutes, and it was the warmest night of the years as well as the most humid. The sweat was dripping off of me. I got a train back home, and I got in a little after 1:00 AM. I had to get up at 4:40 AM to make my 7:00 flight down to Zürich. I have to run down to Paris tomorrow before I crash for the weekend, but wanted to send of this brief report.

I did want to let everyone know that the Europeans, and Germans in particular, have NOT given up on us. They respect us, like us, and have every confidence that if anyone can bounce back from the dark times that have seized our land, we can.

It gave me renewed hope--for one evening, anyway. But the longest journey does indeed start with a single step.

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A July Fourth celebration on the Rhein River. What the Germans think about us now (Original Post) DFW Jul 2018 OP
Thanks for the recap! ploppy Jul 2018 #1
Thanks for the update! smirkymonkey Jul 2018 #2
I love Germany. It's one of my favorite places in the world. Aristus Jul 2018 #3
Good to hear, though it does little to lessen my guilt and grief at what is happening... hlthe2b Jul 2018 #4
It sounds like it was a wonderful--and encouraging--night. catbyte Jul 2018 #5
Thanks. I am traveling to Germany this fall. GulfCoast66 Jul 2018 #6
" the trump disaster." cwydro Jul 2018 #7
Thanks! Sophia4 Jul 2018 #8
Thanks for the great report, my dear DFW! CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2018 #9
2nd the motion (n/t) Lionel Mandrake Jul 2018 #15
Thank you -- this consoles me. fierywoman Jul 2018 #10
Your post gave me renewed hope as well. Kittycow Jul 2018 #11
Can't wait for my trip this December to NRW for the Christmas markets Mr. Ected Jul 2018 #12
"broad cross-section of educated German society represented there has by NO means given up on us" Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2018 #13
I had the same response from the French i 2005 BigmanPigman Jul 2018 #14
The French got a big laugh over "Freedom Fries." DFW Jul 2018 #38
HA! BigmanPigman Jul 2018 #39
Bush can't take credit for that one DFW Jul 2018 #40
Been back a week now LittleGirl Jul 2018 #16
This is encouraging to hear, DFW. calimary Jul 2018 #17
That's a relief. Duppers Jul 2018 #18
Thank you DFW, for your hopeful, uplifting account. yonder Jul 2018 #19
Thanks! PatrickforO Jul 2018 #20
Love this post, but surprised to read that you're from Virginia FakeNoose Jul 2018 #21
This lifetime has been sort of a blur, really DFW Jul 2018 #22
Great story and I'm glad you shared it FakeNoose Jul 2018 #47
Welcome reassurance RandomAccess Jul 2018 #23
Germans know only too well that a country can bounce back from the darkest of times. Amaryllis Jul 2018 #24
I hope we never descend to those depths, but it is clear... Hekate Jul 2018 #26
We wouldn't need as long as Hitler did to descend into hell DFW Jul 2018 #28
Thank you so much, DFW. I'm so sad and ashamed of my country; it's good to know some... Hekate Jul 2018 #25
People who know educated Americans know that there are some good eggs left DFW Jul 2018 #29
Hearing this boosts my morale: JarOCats Jul 2018 #27
Great report - thanks KT2000 Jul 2018 #30
Great stuff. BobTheSubgenius Jul 2018 #31
Thanks DFW, hope is something we don't seem to have a lot of now... N_E_1 for Tennis Jul 2018 #32
Sleep? DFW Jul 2018 #33
It is the same feeling of folks down river RocRizzo55 Jul 2018 #34
I heard about the clip but haven't seen it yet DFW Jul 2018 #36
Always glad to read your posts DFW because of their positivity. Boomerproud Jul 2018 #35
At some point DFW Jul 2018 #37
Did you get a chance to discuss what is taking place in Europe today? UCmeNdc Jul 2018 #41
Very few mentions of Russia DFW Jul 2018 #42
Oh, Okay... I must say I feel that Donald Trump and Putin seem to be coordinating attacks UCmeNdc Jul 2018 #43
They don't give Trump credit for being able to arrange much of anything DFW Jul 2018 #44
I agree with you. But I believe people both within the US and Germany (Europe) are underestimating UCmeNdc Jul 2018 #45
Trump is like Silly Putty DFW Jul 2018 #46

Aristus

(66,084 posts)
3. I love Germany. It's one of my favorite places in the world.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:19 PM
Jul 2018

The Germans I knew when I was over there were uniformly wonderful to me. I love them, and I miss them.

I can't wait to go back someday...

hlthe2b

(101,713 posts)
4. Good to hear, though it does little to lessen my guilt and grief at what is happening...
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:20 PM
Jul 2018

and how we are treating our allies. I'm glad they will give us a little more opportunity to reverse this, but it grieves me that they should have to.

catbyte

(34,169 posts)
5. It sounds like it was a wonderful--and encouraging--night.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:20 PM
Jul 2018

Thanks so much for taking the time out of what sounds like a very grueling schedule to post about your evening. Now if we can just manage to neutralize the damage enough to ensure there will be a United States to salvage after this clusterfuck...

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
6. Thanks. I am traveling to Germany this fall.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:22 PM
Jul 2018

Looking forward to it and good to here I will not be blamed.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,297 posts)
9. Thanks for the great report, my dear DFW!
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 03:29 PM
Jul 2018

I can just see and hear the company! All the great conversations and great food make for a wonderful night out.

I'm glad our mutual friend had more fun than he'd expected.

We can all use some renewed hope.

Mr. Ected

(9,670 posts)
12. Can't wait for my trip this December to NRW for the Christmas markets
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:03 PM
Jul 2018

Koeln is my mother's hometown; I used to live in Troisdorf, near the Koeln-Bonn airport, and in Elmpt, out in the fields near the Dutch border. Not a day goes by that my wife and I don't tell each other we miss it.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,786 posts)
13. "broad cross-section of educated German society represented there has by NO means given up on us"
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:04 PM
Jul 2018

I was sure this would be the case. Thanks for reporting this.

Way too many binary thinkers complain on DU "The US is Finished" or "There is no USA any more" or "It's over, move to another country", etc.

Trump is NOT the USA. Educated people in the USA and the world capable of nuance know this.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
14. I had the same response from the French i 2005
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:13 PM
Jul 2018

after they wouldn't support our war so Bush renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries in the W House cafeteria. I was nervous about what type of reception I would receive but I didn't need to be worried. The French were so wise and sage due to their country's a long history. They told me not to worry since good leaders and bad leaders come and go so the pendulum will swing back to sanity eventually. My sister travels all over the world and said that people where ever she goes do not hold us personally responsible for the US leaders and fucked up views. This makes me feel a little better.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
38. The French got a big laugh over "Freedom Fries."
Sat Jul 7, 2018, 05:01 AM
Jul 2018

Since they had been after us to stop calling them "French Fries (they are Belgian in origin)" for decades, we finally did it, and for a reason so stupid, it sounded like it came from a comedy routine.

My little political satire project, recently given a reincarnation due to the Trumpanzees, was called The Freedom Toast, after Republicans demanded that ""French Toast" be stricken from the menu at the House of Representatives, and be called "Freedom Toast" instead. They hadn't bothered to find out that "French Toast" was named after a chef whose name was "French," and that there is no such dish in France. The "insult" fell flat rather quickly, as people in France had no idea what "French Toast" was in the first place.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
39. HA!
Sat Jul 7, 2018, 03:54 PM
Jul 2018

That is another brilliant move by Bush. Who would have ever thought that he would look like Einstein compared to the next GOP rocket scientist.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
40. Bush can't take credit for that one
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:00 AM
Jul 2018

That was was strictly the Republicans in Congress.

Of course, their moves then probably look like a physics thesis from the faculty of MIT compared to the idiots that pass for Republican congresspeople today. They were praising Trump's daring and negotiating skills when he met with Kim Jugular last month. Now that the North Koreans are saying April Fool (well, OK, June Fool), I'll bet the Republicans have completely erased the "Great Summit" from their memories.

LittleGirl

(8,261 posts)
16. Been back a week now
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:24 PM
Jul 2018

Thanks for the positive report from the southern end of the Rhine, down Basel way.
Gives me hope that educated folks in Europe don’t judge us by IQ45.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
17. This is encouraging to hear, DFW.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:41 PM
Jul 2018

Thanks for sharing these details! I’m glad they haven’t given up on us. We NEED our allies! They’ve been our friends, partners, and side-by-side warriors in many international conflicts. They’ve bet on us and with us time and time again. They’ve sent their sons and daughters into wars and police actions with us. I’ve desperately hoped they wouldn’t assume trump ‘n’ comp represented all of us. Because they DON’T!!! They don’t even represent a majority of us!

Duppers

(28,094 posts)
18. That's a relief.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 04:46 PM
Jul 2018

They must not know many of us.
Thankfully you represent us in the most positive ways. And these folks know there are more progressive thinkers here than tHumpers.

What a wonderful evening you had! As always, very impressive.



yonder

(9,631 posts)
19. Thank you DFW, for your hopeful, uplifting account.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 05:33 PM
Jul 2018

It's very encouraging to know that others in the world can discount the hopefully short game here and look to the bigger picture. Your eyes and ears put a smile on this ole boy today.

FakeNoose

(32,338 posts)
21. Love this post, but surprised to read that you're from Virginia
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 06:16 PM
Jul 2018

DFW, all this time I've been reading your posts I believed that DFW stood for Dallas-Fort Worth. I had assumed you were originally from Texas and you're now living in Germany for several years. Wow do I feel silly!

But in any case your posts are always interesting and this one is no exception. Sounds like you had a great July 4th celebration. I spent my July 4th at the Hofbräu Haus here in Pittsburgh. Drinking German beer and singing "Ein Prosit."

I do understand what you mean about the German people still loving us Americans, but they understand that Trump is a huge mistake, and they're only going to put up with him for so long. Thanks for representing all of us in Germany and being such a friendly "ambassador." To be honest, I'm a little bit envious of your ideal situation.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
22. This lifetime has been sort of a blur, really
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 06:32 PM
Jul 2018

I lived in Dallas longer than anywhere else, so I still consider DFW my home airport. I vote Texan, work for an outfit based in Texas, and have carried a Texas driver's license longer than any other. It's still my U.S. residence.

But I was indeed born in Virginia. My dad was a member of the Washington print press for 50 years, and you can't do that anywhere else than Washington.

For that matter, he wasn't originally from Virginia, either. His dad was born into poverty in South Carolina, but had moved north before my dad was born. Worked his way through Harvard paying his tuition working as a janitor for the university (try doing that today!), became deputy mayor of New York City and then on the the NY state supreme court. So, my dad was born in NY, I was born back the south and my daughters were born in the German Rheinland, a place my dad was an occupying soldier on enemy territory forty years before their birth.

If there's anything constant about my family, it's that NOTHING is constant!

FakeNoose

(32,338 posts)
47. Great story and I'm glad you shared it
Mon Jul 9, 2018, 09:33 PM
Jul 2018

I have visited the Rheinland area and love it very much! I've been to Mainz, Koblenz, and Düsseldorf but that was probably 20 years ago. I've travelled to different parts of Germany & Austria 7 or 8 times, starting in 1990 when my son was a foreign exchange student for one year at University of Innsbruck. On my most recent trip in 2015 I visited the north for the first time: Berlin, Hamburg, the lakes area, Kiel, and Sylt. At the moment I don't have any more trips planned, but I do hope to get back there some day.

In Pittsburgh I belong to a German singing group, the Teutonia Männerchor und Damenchor. As you might guess, we dress in tracht and sing Volkslieder and Heimatlieder. There are a lot people with German heritage in our area, and some of our group were even born in Germany.

Thanks again for your great posts about your life in Germany. I'm very interested and a little envious.



Amaryllis

(9,523 posts)
24. Germans know only too well that a country can bounce back from the darkest of times.
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 08:31 PM
Jul 2018

Hope it doesn't take as long as it did with Hitler.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
28. We wouldn't need as long as Hitler did to descend into hell
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 05:44 AM
Jul 2018

Hitler did it as efficiently as he could, given the technical capacity of his time. Things move faster now,and we don't have ten languages to contend with.

That is why the midterms are so vital.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
25. Thank you so much, DFW. I'm so sad and ashamed of my country; it's good to know some...
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 08:38 PM
Jul 2018

...still have faith in us.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
29. People who know educated Americans know that there are some good eggs left
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 05:47 AM
Jul 2018

People who only see Trumpanzees in TV do not.

But when the mayors of two of Germany's most important cities show up, and speaking American-accented English so fluently, it could only come from having spent time in the States, and profess their confidence, it is encouraging.

JarOCats

(119 posts)
27. Hearing this boosts my morale:
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 08:46 PM
Jul 2018

"All in all, I can tell you that the broad cross-section of educated German society represented there has by NO means given up on us, and they realize that the current regime making such a mess in Washington right now does NOT represent America, not really. "

BobTheSubgenius

(11,535 posts)
31. Great stuff.
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 12:57 PM
Jul 2018

Heart-warming and hopeful. You'd think if any people know about this aberration and the road back, it would be the Germans.

In the extremely fervent hope that American rebuilding is only a fraction as hard as the German.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,593 posts)
32. Thanks DFW, hope is something we don't seem to have a lot of now...
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 01:27 PM
Jul 2018

But your report put air back into the ballon.
Always good to hear from you. Get some sleep!

 

RocRizzo55

(980 posts)
34. It is the same feeling of folks down river
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 03:25 PM
Jul 2018

on the Nederrijn as it is called in the Netherlands. My girlfriend lives in Wageningen, the home of the number one agricultural college in the world. People there are from all over the world. The Green Left Party has a large contingent in the city council. They all embrace Americans, but not those in power. They know what has happened. The same thing almost happened there, when their Donny wannabe, Geert Wilders ran for PM there, except Wilders lost.
I have been there many times, and the folks there are like people, I believe, from all over. We are all just people. The folks of Wageningen are no different. Any time I am there in a shop, or whatever, I am greeted with respect. I have many friends that I have made over there over the past four years. The local butcher even jokes about Donny with me.
I can understand people in the US who may think that our image around the world has been trashed by the Oompah-Loompah Oligarch, but they have to understand that this image is mostly in the folks in power, not the regular folks like you and I.

BTW- Did you catch the clip where Mar-A-Lago Mussolini was with the Dutch PM, Mark Rutte, and Rutte told Donny off straight away? That was not unusual, it was just another one of the traits of the Dutch, who are very direct and honest with their opinions.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
36. I heard about the clip but haven't seen it yet
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 07:19 PM
Jul 2018

And I know perfectly well where Wageningen is.

One of our best friends lives in Bennekom, and the train station I get off at is Ede-Wageningnen.

En ik kan wel Nederlands verstaan. En spreken, zelfs! Niet te geloven!

UCmeNdc

(9,589 posts)
41. Did you get a chance to discuss what is taking place in Europe today?
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:46 AM
Jul 2018

What is taking place in Europe today is, perhaps unwittingly or on purpose, a collusion of interests between the Trump administration and the Kremlin?

I feel this development is what is driving many of the ultra right movements developing in Europe. (Germany included.)

DFW

(54,050 posts)
42. Very few mentions of Russia
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:59 AM
Jul 2018

Don't forget, this was not a gathering like the ones every July 4th on the roof of the Canadian Embassy in Washington. It was put on by an organization dedicated to cultural exchanges and understanding between Germany and the USA.

UCmeNdc

(9,589 posts)
43. Oh, Okay... I must say I feel that Donald Trump and Putin seem to be coordinating attacks
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:13 AM
Jul 2018

on certain European leaders. Merkel being included. I was wondering if the average German citizen thought this new type of political arrangement between Putin and Trump was also apparent.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
44. They don't give Trump credit for being able to arrange much of anything
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:36 AM
Jul 2018

They are fairly sure there are people in the background manipulating this, much as Cheney was doing to Bush.

The interests of Trump's handlers and those of Putin happen to be similar for now. Should that no longer be the case, Trump will be calling Putin "horse-face" at his rallies in no time.

They know Putin has no use for Merkel. Even within her own party, Merkel has plenty of opposition. Few like a woman who not only can think for herself and is immune to petty criticism, but also has the interests of her country at heart, and places them above her party. This is probably why her most logical successor, Ursula von der Leyen, has little chance of being the next chancellor. The macho world of German politics does not want two women like that in a row. Merkel is too far left for the far right of her own party and not enough so for the farthest left of her coalition partner, the now-nearly-irrelevent SPD. For a middle-of-the-road country like Germany, she makes perfect sense for a country at Germany's level of stability and prosperity. Stability and prosperity are the enemies of extremists, and neither Trump nor Putin like being unfavorably compared to her.

It's ironic--the USA took a destroyed Germany after the end of World War Two, and tried to make it into a somewhat image of what the USA (at the time) thought was the ideal country and ally. Now that the effort has pretty much succeeded, some are pissed off that the experiment worked, and are doing their best to make it come apart at the seams. Sort of "they did just what we wanted. How dare they?"

UCmeNdc

(9,589 posts)
45. I agree with you. But I believe people both within the US and Germany (Europe) are underestimating
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 07:41 AM
Jul 2018

Putin's influence over Trump and Putin's influence over other political movements within Europe. Many of these "sub-ordinate" leaders within Europe are receiving money and guidance from Moscow. They may seem to act independently in their resentment of the US, but they are using Putin's spy assets to undermine stability in Germany. This activity is occurring as well within other European countries. it will be up to the average German citizen to recognize the threat to their country, just like it will be up to the average American to recognize the threat Trump is to the United States.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
46. Trump is like Silly Putty
Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:42 PM
Jul 2018

The shape of his opinion is whatever he was last sitting on (or talking to). He thought Kim Jong-Un was his best buddy after Singapore. He'll be singing a different tune next week.

Troublemakers receiving money from Moscow is nothing new in Europe. Leftist and Communist movements all over western Europe were "shocked" to hear they had been financed and manipulated by the Kremlin after the East German Stasi files (and, 2 years later, many Soviet files) became public, and showed the degree to which they been the Kremlin's puppets. The Stalinist PCF boss, Georges Marchais declared the French Communists had been "betrayed," even though he seemed to not mind a bit beforehand. He lived in a fancy villa, anyway, so his affinity for the way of life of Soviet leaders was hardly a well-kept secret.

What is new is the Kremlin figuring out that pumping up movements that one would think were hostile to them is smart politics at times. The "Rooski" haters of the Republican Party obviously love being told (by the Russians themselves, obviously) that the Kremlin didn't interfere on their behalf in the last election. Technically, if the Kremlin is as crafty as I think it is, their logical connection to the "Internet Research Agency" in SPB is being kept as quiet and as unofficial as can be, so that "the Secretary will deny all knowledge of your actions" if they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

They have been trying to undermine the stability of modern Germany forever. It was long a thorn in their side that the East Germans had to build a wall and electrified fences to keep its own people in. Gorbachev figured out that a unified Germany was no threat, and Putin has been laughing all the way to bank. He even got a former Chancellor (Schröder) to work for him. Can't get much more integrated than that. The main party of the moderate German left (SPD) has made extremely poor decisions in choosing its flag bearers, and chosen bureaucrats instead of pragmatic idealists as its leaders. Bad move in a country run by uncaring all-powerful bureaucrats that are the most disliked sector of German society. The Greens shed their members (and, mostly, whole wing) of their party that turned out to have been financed by the Soviets, and did well because of it. So who's left? The far right. Since extremists resemble each other more than they differ, the Kremlin no longer bothers to support a discredited and tainted far left here. The relatively new phenomenon of a rising far right is a more fruitful hunting ground. But the former West Germany survived such an onslaught already (check out the career of Franz-Josef Strauss, and disregard the airport named after him). Until Putin manages to infiltrate the German media, we don't have much to fear here. Strauss never survived the German media's put-down of him. If the German media ever falls under the Kremlin's sway, it'll be more than Houston who has a problem. They ARE on the lookout, by the way. After 40 years of being infiltrated by spies from everywhere (look up Günter Guillaume), they know how porous their defenses are.

The trouble with the USA is that the Republican elite doesn't care one whit who pays for their victory celebrations, and they have for the most part ALREADY bought our media. They hide behind the label of "free press," and preach the right wing line word for word to the extent that Trump, instead of thinking, finds it easier to just repeat them (like I said, silly putty). They are no more "free" than a parakeet in a cage, but they wave the First Amendment, and think they are.

I'd say that the biggest difference between the two countries at the moment is that where most Germans realize there IS a threat, a dangerous, huge minority of Americans not only doesn't see a threat, their leadership sees an ally, and their rank and file sees nothing at all.

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