HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Democrats Still Don't Und...

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 11:53 AM

Democrats Still Don't Understand What They're Up Against

Kaitlin Byrd - HuffPo

It may seem counterintuitive that the only means of saving democracy is to jettison the civility and standards that lay at its foundations. But this mistakes civility as the source of good in democracy and not the product of a system that sees and protects the equality of its citizens. The former view ― seeing empathy, reciprocity and mutual respect as ends in and of themselves rather than tools of consensus and understanding ― only leaves the door open for abuse from those who have no interest either.

If Democrats are to change the course of events, they will need to process that they, like all of us, have been utterly betrayed.

It will be difficult. It will make our politics feel more rancorous, more hostile, less conciliatory. But it would be wrong for the Democrats to seek reconciliation while the Republican Party organizes government to recognize only its ideology as legitimate, systematically assaults Democratic constituents and actively condones the abandonment of international law and the heinous human rights abuses still happening to thousands of asylum-seekers.

There can be no peace on terms that leave this order intact. It may be that the only way to reveal the better angels of their nature is to purge them of their demons first.

78 replies, 7756 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 78 replies Author Time Post
Reply Democrats Still Don't Understand What They're Up Against (Original post)
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 OP
RandomAccess Jul 8 #1
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #7
Wwcd Jul 8 #2
tonyt53 Jul 9 #57
Nitram Jul 9 #60
peggysue2 Jul 11 #70
Maraya1969 Jul 8 #3
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #5
lapucelle Jul 8 #30
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #47
lapucelle Jul 8 #50
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #51
lapucelle Jul 8 #54
Steven Maurer Jul 11 #69
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 11 #71
Steven Maurer Jul 12 #72
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 12 #73
Steven Maurer Jul 12 #74
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 12 #75
Steven Maurer Jul 12 #77
The Mouth Jul 9 #62
LiberalLovinLug Jul 8 #35
KY_EnviroGuy Jul 8 #44
RandySF Jul 8 #4
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #6
Wwcd Jul 8 #8
lapucelle Jul 8 #39
Post removed Jul 8 #41
EndGOPPropaganda Jul 8 #31
C Moon Jul 8 #9
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #10
George II Jul 8 #14
alwaysinasnit Jul 8 #19
Susan Calvin Jul 8 #23
George II Jul 8 #46
Susan Calvin Jul 8 #53
greatauntoftriplets Jul 12 #76
JI7 Jul 8 #15
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #48
chwaliszewski Jul 10 #63
Susan Calvin Jul 8 #27
C Moon Jul 8 #28
Susan Calvin Jul 8 #29
EndGOPPropaganda Jul 8 #32
BadgerMom Jul 8 #11
workinclasszero Jul 8 #12
tonyt53 Jul 9 #58
gulliver Jul 8 #13
superpatriotman Jul 8 #16
sandensea Jul 8 #17
Susan Calvin Jul 8 #24
RandySF Jul 8 #18
EndGOPPropaganda Jul 8 #34
MyOwnPeace Jul 8 #42
lunatica Jul 8 #20
Hamlette Jul 8 #21
johnp3907 Jul 8 #22
leftstreet Jul 9 #56
certainot Jul 8 #25
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 8 #49
certainot Jul 8 #55
floWteiuQ Jul 8 #26
elmac Jul 8 #33
SWBTATTReg Jul 8 #36
pecosbob Jul 8 #37
stonecutter357 Jul 8 #38
KY_EnviroGuy Jul 8 #40
RandySF Jul 8 #43
JI7 Jul 8 #45
Bok_Tukalo Jul 8 #52
Nitram Jul 9 #59
Bonx Jul 9 #61
LudwigPastorius Jul 10 #64
Lady Freedom Returns Jul 10 #65
ismnotwasm Jul 10 #66
Nitram Jul 10 #67
SunSeeker Jul 11 #68
Nitram Jul 13 #78

Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:14 PM

1. Excellent piece -- thanks

 

It's chock full of good sense, quotable too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandomAccess (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:51 PM

7. I liked it.

You are welcome.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:22 PM

2. I believe the Democrats were well aware of what they were up against & still are.

 

It's a degrading broad brush of a title.

Exactly which part of the big Democratic tent is the author referring to?
Just asking

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wwcd (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 12:53 PM

57. I'm with you!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wwcd (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 01:42 PM

60. I didn't like the title either. Don't tear Democrats down because we are humanists,

rationalists, and believe in civil discourse. If you want us to speak out more strongly, make the case for the instead of bashing Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wwcd (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 03:11 PM

70. I agree and frankly

when I read published pieces like this I'm instantly suspicious of the intent, as in depress the voters, depress the vote.

The vast majority of Dems know or are certainly growing aware of what we're up against. This is make or break time. November is critical to the welfare of not simply the Democratic Party but the country at large. An article like this at Huffington does nothing to move the ball forward. Rather, the dark, ominous tones convey a sense of despair and futility.

Fuck that!

November is our moment. Let's not waste time or energy on brooding, please.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:23 PM

3. These two paragraphs......

The Republican Party has gotten much out of this arrangement: a compliant press; an intractable base, and a consolidation of power heretofore unseen in U.S. politics. What benefits have accrued to the Democrats from all their pleasantry and open-mindedness? They have received nothing but scorn. Republicans have spent years savaging Democratic constituents, attacking their cities, towns and cultures, denying them resources and abrogating their rights.

To further reinforce their contempt for anything other than their own power, Republicans have pursued the contemptuous myth of voter fraud, attacked the margins in elections they do lose (and win, apparently) and promoted narratives that delegitimize Democratic-run government. Despite the explicit warnings as to what Republican strategies would be, Democrats have continued to accept this treatment, normalizing attacks on some classes of American citizens and inflicting no consequences for damaging norms in pursuit of power.

Edit to add emphasis

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:49 PM

5. Those paragraphs struck me as well

I agree with the central theme - the time for civility is long past over. When we receive accusations of being "unhinged," it means we are doing it right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:32 PM

30. I reject the shaky premise on which she builds her argument.

Democrats, by refusing to defend their authority to govern on behalf of their constituents and prioritizing the sentiments and responses of Republican voters, have sacrificed the instruments of power for the perception of principle.


We understand perfectly well what we're up against, including narratives like the one she's spinning.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:07 PM

47. We understand perfectly?

"Impeachment is, to me, divisive," Pelosi said. "Again, if the facts are there, if the facts are there, then this would have to be bipartisan to go forward. But if it is viewed as partisan, it will divide the country, and I just don't think that's what we should do."


CNN. Pelosi: Impeachment is not a 'policy agenda' 5/23/2018

I'd say any notion that there is a bipartisan way forward on impeachment shows a fundamental misreading of the situation. But maybe that's just me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:26 PM

50. Impeachment would take a bipartisan effort.

I think that if there is any fundamental misreading of the situation, it is not on the part of Nancy Pelosi. She knows exactly what it would take to get impeachment through the House. There's a reason why she never lost a vote she ushered to the floor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lapucelle (Reply #50)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:29 PM

51. The Republicans knew there was no chance of convicting Bill Clinton

It didn't stop them from holding hearings and pursuing the charges.

Pelosi seems to be conceding the fight before it is started.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #51)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:52 PM

54. What she "seems" to be doing and what she actually is doing

are not necessarily the same thing. I trust her judgement on this more than that of the armchair pundits like Kaitlin Byrd.

Furthermore, waiting to act until it can be done from a position of strength is not is not the same thing as prioritizing Republican voters at the expense of Democratic constituents.

Sorry, but I don't accept the narrative that Leader Pelosi cares more about Republicans than she does about Democrats.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #51)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 02:52 PM

69. Republicans lost ground due to their impeachment of Clinton

His popularity rose significantly due to it.

Let's not make that mistake with Trump. Until the GOP is willing to jettison him, we need to tie him like a boat anchor around every single one of their necks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #69)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 04:53 PM

71. But they **won** the White House

...and kept both Houses of Congress in 2000.

Gore's re-election campaign was damaged because he felt compelled to distance himself from a popular president.

I don't know if it's still out there, but in the mid 2000s, blogger David Swanson (who's become a major jackass, of late) wrote a column about the party that impeaches, wins. He wanted the Pelosi-led house elected in 2006 to go hard after the Bush war crimes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #71)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 07:10 PM

72. No non-incumbent Democratic candidate has won after a Democratic presidency

For 150 years. Basically, since before we were the liberals.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #72)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 07:38 PM

73. You could sorta split that hair with Truman

But you are basically correct.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #73)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 07:48 PM

74. Truman was an incumbent N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Steven Maurer (Reply #74)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:16 PM

75. Barely

And he did get reelected after taking over for FDR

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #75)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 11:09 PM

77. Not "barely"...

Truman used the power of the Presidency against the GOP congress. Dewey put forward all these plans and promised about what he was going to do, and Truman was able to call bullshit. He brought the GOP Congress into special session and challenged them to actually pass a bill (which they couldn't because none of their numbers added up). When they didn't, he "do nothing"-ed them all through campaign season.

That's how he held on.

Couldn't have done it without being President. And even then, a lot of the press thought he was toast. Hence the newspapers making the famous mistake.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 05:56 PM

62. A quote I've seen on some conservative sites:


"If you're taking flak, it means you're over the target."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Maraya1969 (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:36 PM

35. Yes. This paragraph as well....

This is what it means to give good-faith scoldings about civility when the barest hint of power is turned against those who constantly wield it as a weapon. This paradigm renders civil disobedience in the face of abuse outside the bounds of society. It civilizes lying daily for the purpose of obfuscating the sins and crimes the federal executive is committing against his own population. That the previous sentence makes sense is a tragedy, yet it is a greater calamity that both national parties are defending the order of a world in which it is true.

To some degree one can blame how the corporate media covers the parties. Or did, I hope that is changing. They have been pushing the false equivalency for decades now already, that both parties are equally moral, ethical, and patriotic, both parties want whats best for the average Joe and Jane. Its just that they each have different ways to get there. The MSM promote that in order to not offend viewers of the Republican bent into believing they are not biased. Even when its transparently obvious that one party is abusing that charity to the tenth degree.

But Democratic politicians have no commercial interest with advertisers like the corporate media shareholders do. They don't even have that excuse. Its not that there is no fight coming from them, but its so pale, so 'civil', that its actually working against them.

My gawd, where is Hillary? And Obama for that matter? I would have liked to see Hillary defying all the anger from not only brainwashed deplorables, but Democratic voters who thought she, and/or the DNC, didn't do enough to win. Really, how much more garbage can they heap on her? IMO the right, and voices like InfoWars etc... can create a much more menacing monster from a vacuum, than if there is an actual living speaking intelligent person not only defending herself, but laying charges against the current administration. Who cares if deplorabes hate watching her on TV. It wouldn't be done for their pleasure.

Her expressing her anger at being cheated from the presidency, and her dismay at what the American public is now enduring would go a long way to the base. She should have come out steaming mad like an opposition leader under house arrest after an election was stolen like in many third world countries, and called the election a sham. Every stupid self-serving decision by the Orange Dotard should have had a reaction from her about how she would have made a different decision, including an explanation about why. Continuously remind Americans how much saner she would have been.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalLovinLug (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:38 PM

44. K&R for Truth. Repugs have attacked democracy and decency....

on multiple fronts for decades using simultaneous but carefully separated and orchestrated parallel battle fields:
1. The face we see with their suits and ties in speeches in Congress and in campaign ads, which appeal to emotions and pump-up people's level of fear.
2. The faces we don't see hidden behind the curtain of legislation and regulatory changes they carefully mask-over regarding harms to the public.
3. The enormous right-wing media machine funded by hard-right billionaires that pumps out lies and deception 24/7.
4. Encouraging the mechanisms by which our main-stream media companies have become profit oriented concerns, which discourage them from bucking corporate (Republican) interests. Therefore, everything political must be normalized back to the relatively civil and "working across the isle" style of the 50s and 60s.

It is instructional to observe how Republican politicians play their theatrical games, using each of those four mediums to their advantage. They create a fog of disinformation to keep the public's heads spinning at all times - a method straight our of Russia's master playbook.

We're facing an extreme uphill battle to return to economic and political equality, as well as to educate our public on how they're being played.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:28 PM

4. Thank you for your concern

What are you doing to act on it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandySF (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 12:50 PM

6. At the moment, posting on a message board - just like you

Your "thanks" are noted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandySF (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:00 PM

8. My thoughts exactly RandySF.

 

Its a valid question.
Thanks for trying to broaden the discussion beyond the message of the author's opinion piece.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wwcd (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 03:11 PM

39. Why is anybody here buying into a narrative based on the premise

that Democrats are

"...refusing to defend their authority to govern on behalf of their constituents and prioritizing the sentiments and responses of Republican voters"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wwcd (Reply #8)


Response to RandySF (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:33 PM

31. Something we all can do: anti-GOP shirts and bumper stickers

“Fox News Lies” is I think the best message for red states.

Because currently the GOP wants to pretend everything is fine. And the best strategy for Dems is to show outrage.

So wear a shirt or display a bumper sticker that shows OUTRAGE. Make apolitical Americans see that Dems have had enough.

And register voters.
And GOTV.
And join Indivisible - and help them. Show up. Work hard.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:19 PM

9. We should have gone after Bush and Cheney...

I think letting them off (Cheney was even mouthy about it afterward), set the country up for the battle we are in now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to C Moon (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:31 PM

10. Yes

..and Obama should have let the too-big-to-fail banks burn to the ground in 2009 and gone harder after the fraudsters. I mention this because the deeply Republican farm belt will come begging for a bailout once these tariffs take hold.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:43 PM

14. Do you know what would have happened had the banks failed? Sure, they're highly profitable....

....businesses, but without a viable banking system businesses of all types would have failed with them - businesses in manufacturing, distribution, farming, service, etc.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:55 PM

19. We do have a model for temporarily taking over financial institutions.

Albeit on a much smaller scope and scale. I refer to the Savings and Loan debacle.

https://www.thebalance.com/savings-and-loans-crisis-causes-cost-3306035

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:13 PM

23. OK, how about seriously going after the banksters?

(Which didn't happen.)

Doing so seems to have worked out fine for Iceland.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-03-31/welcome-to-iceland-where-bad-bankers-go-to-prison

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:47 PM

46. I don't see how Iceland can be compared to the United States.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #46)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:47 PM

53. Um.

They are a sovereign nation. We are a sovereign nation. We could have done the same thing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 08:49 PM

76. The economy would have collapsed far worse than it did.

It probably would have been far worse than the Great Depression.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to C Moon (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:48 PM

15. The people who supported bush supported trump

Trump is a backlash to obama and other good things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JI7 (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:10 PM

48. Many mistakenly saw Obama as America entering a post-racial phase

America's racists saw Obama as the last straw.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 03:46 AM

63. This!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to C Moon (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:18 PM

27. In fairness, things still looked *sorta* normal then,

compared to now.

Like Gore not making a stink. A reasonable thing to do in normal times, and he couldn't have known he was sending us down the rabbit hole.

But we are way past that now. And have been for a long time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Susan Calvin (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:22 PM

28. Yeah. I was thinking (after I typed that): "hind-sight is everything."

But maybe Putin saw what Bush and Cheney did, and started his evil coup plan.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to C Moon (Reply #28)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:23 PM

29. Wouldn't be a bit surprised. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to C Moon (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:34 PM

32. 100%.

As great a leader as Obama was, he made a terrible mistake choosing to forgo torture prosecutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:33 PM

12. Is this another attack the democratic party post?

Just askin.

Been a lot of those lately as the midterm election draws near, go figure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to workinclasszero (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 12:54 PM

58. Sure is

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:34 PM

13. This is very close but it misses the mark in assuming Dem types are saintly.

We do need to get off our high horses, take off the gloves, and mix it up. We need to be human. That will restore the half of our strength that comes from our non-angelic side.

We haven't been "betrayed." That's just another self-canonizing framing. We're the good guys (but only most of the time) and we are being mugged, not betrayed.

I do see signs that we are getting in the game. There's no reason smart, good people have to handicap themselves by trying to be sweeties all the time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:48 PM

16. People over profits

Public good versus private enterprise

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:50 PM

17. They're also up against voting machines DESIGNED to be easily hacked

We can't pretend our elections are still normal - not anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sandensea (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:14 PM

24. This. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:53 PM

18. When we're done reading NY/DC columns and wringing our hands

Text the Vote: https://www.buildthewave.org/text-the-vote

Postcards for Voters: https://postcardstovoters.org

Swing Left: https://swingleft.org

Sister District: https://www.sisterdistrict.com

Flippable: https://flippable.org

Indivisible: https://www.indivisible.org



Or go find your local state or county organization.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandySF (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:36 PM

34. +1

Dem swag is important too- because it makes us and our ideas VISIBLE.


Mad Dog PAC - https://maddogpac.com/ “Resist” and “NRA is a terrorist organization” “Impeachment now”

“Fox lies”; “Deport Rupert Murdoch”; “Avoid rightwing propaganda” — https://weprotectthetruth.com

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandySF (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 03:25 PM

42. This is GOOD stuff!

Way to go!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 01:58 PM

20. We have to stop bringing kid gloves the the gun fights

N/T

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:10 PM

21. you can be civil and still have convictions

I want to live in a civil society. I don't want a bunch of people chanting "shame, shame" at people of a Democratic administration in a restaurant. That does not mean I will compromise my values.

We should take a couple of pages out of their playbook. Where is our "Federalist Society"? Should we have one? And where the hell are we during midterms AND perhaps more importantly, in local races. Tip O'Neill was right: All politics are local. Gerrymandering is done at the state/local level. We wouldn't be in this mess if we had shown up for state legislative races.

I want to belong to a party that fights like hell without carrying Tiki Torches.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:12 PM

22. A lot of people on this site refer to Democrats as "they."

Very interesting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to johnp3907 (Reply #22)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 03:33 AM

56. A lot of people mean elected Democratic officials

Elected representatives, party leaders, etc

I do it all the time

So do lots of people

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:14 PM

25. american have to destroy rw talk radio 20-1 monopoly or kiss democracy goodby

dems need to politicize advwertising on political talk radio and democratize it

it just got very easy and cheap to transcribe talk radio - the left can use it to let advertisers and ad agencies know if they advertise on RW/trump talk radio they may be asked if they support him.

Artificial intelligence could spell the end of Trump talk radio before November

it wouldn't take much activism for the ad industry to get the message - it is very easy to list all advertisers on talk radio for any station - getting their contact info - web sites, phone numbers etc, without having to listen to it

in that situation no FD is needed to destroy the monopoly and open up new stations to liberals - then it would be easy

imo since RW talk radio is a well protected 20-1 monopoly it does not deserve to be considered part of the free speech spectrum in a democracy. but even if you do, there is no excuse for allowing it to do what it does without yelling back at it in terms of challenging it with other free speech. waiting for an FD or rich liberals to buy up radio stations is what the cons like us to wait for, and that's why we're here.

and here are 88 universities that are good places to protest anything trump

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to certainot (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:15 PM

49. The RW radio thing is good news/bad news

Ratings are falling across the board on radio as internet streaming becomes more popular. So fewer ears listen; but as radio gets less profitable, more stations are going either Christian or RWNJ (or sports, of which I approve )

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 10:40 PM

55. it is not failing - it already failed to pay for itself with demand and is billions in debt

but as long as the idiot collective left ignores it it will continue to make trillions in deregulation, war, tax breaks for billionaires, global warming denial, fascist supremes,

it won't fail on its' own before the planet burns up.

it is still the only major medium for politics that's free and easy in 40 states with 80 senators and the idiot left will again let it intimidate a few red state dem senators and 'moderate' repub senators to vote for another unqualified puppet for the supremes

ignoring it continues to be the biggest political mistake in history

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:18 PM

26. Spot on...

I agree with this completely. I'm tired of playing nice with heartless, bullying THUGliCONs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:36 PM

33. excellent and right on point, nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:37 PM

36. Democrats (we) on DU and beyond do realize that our favored institutions, our ...

cast in stones sacred ideas, our cherished thoughts on helping all and the mechanisms to do so are under attack everywhere.

We're mobilizing, we're coming up w/ hundreds of good candidates, we're chatting up storms right and left (DU is a good example), and we're on MTP and the like, constantly standing up for our beliefs.

Believe me, there is an overwhelming anti-rump sentiment in quite a few areas that I'm aware of. After all, why the hell is rump going to some county in the middle of nowhere for his rallies? Because rump supporters
know that they can control the narrative more easier then anywhere else.

The rump facilitators know that they can mode their propaganda and enhance voter feelings more easier when there are fewer people in the area versa tens of thousands as there would be in the suburban areas /urban areas /cities protesting rump's every tweet, every move/action, everything. Cowards know where to show their true colors because they are surrounded by other like them, bullies and the like, who think nothing of poking an elbow into one's face.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 02:50 PM

37. F*ck Republicans...vote

If you're so weak-willed and addle-brained that a few lies on the internet can change who you are going to vote for then turn off your freaking social media and cable propaganda until it's time to vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 03:18 PM

40. A broader perspective on this topic here...

Interview
Madeleine Albright: ‘The things that are happening are genuinely, seriously bad’
Andrew Rawnsle
Sun 8 Jul 2018 05.00 EDT

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/madeleine-albright-fascism-is-not-an-ideology-its-a-method-interview-fascism-a-warning

The former US secretary of state decries the global rise of authoritarianism in her new book, Fascism: A Warning, and talks about Trump, Putin and the ‘tragedy’ of Brexit
------------
The book is a cry of anguish about the global resurgence of authoritarianism and a lament over the decay of the liberal internationalist politics to which Albright has devoted her career. The work is also an act of homage to her father who wrote books about the perils of tyranny and worried that Americans were so accustomed to liberty – so “very, very free,” he wrote – that they might take democracy for granted. She quotes Primo Levi – “Every age has its own fascism” – and makes her case with observations about the autocrats she has dealt with and brisk histories of past dictators and the horrors that they unleashed. A devil’s portrait gallery includes Benito Mussolini, the original fascist, and Adolf Hitler, the most destructive. Then there’s Donald Trump.

She agrees that we ought to be careful not to casually throw around the F-word lest we drain the potency from what should be a powerful term. “I’m not calling Trump a fascist,” she says. Yet she seems to be doing all but that when she puts him in the same company as historical fascists in a book that seeks to sound “an alarm bell” about a fascist revival.

I think her book will be a good read for those of us that could use a refresher on how we got where we are and the perils we're facing today.

.........

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 03:27 PM

43. Has anyone noticed these "Democrats Suck" columns tend to originate from either New York or DC?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RandySF (Reply #43)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 04:43 PM

45. The same ones excusing trump supporters with economic anxiety excuse

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2018, 05:30 PM

52. If civility cannot win then it deserves to die

Long live supremacy!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Mon Jul 9, 2018, 01:41 PM

59. As long as we respect the rule of law, I think we should start speaking factually,

bluntly, and constantly about the constant lying, cheating, stealing, an d slander issuing from this administration and their Republican enablers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 03:26 PM

64. Agreed.


You don't make nice with Nazis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 04:14 PM

65. "If Democrats are to change the course of events, they will need to process that they, like ...

all of us, have been utterly betrayed."
News Flash! We have been betrayed. By our fellow citizens. A bunch of Nationalist traded us all for a red hat.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 04:16 PM

66. Yeah, I'm such a fucking innocent special snowflake

I just have no idea about all those silly politicians doing their politickin, being a Democrat and all.
Adding the obligatory


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Tue Jul 10, 2018, 10:34 PM

67. We do know what we're up against. We don't need this criticism right now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 12:56 AM

68. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)

Fri Jul 13, 2018, 08:32 AM

78. We do know what we are up against. Enough defeatist talk. Help get out the vote in a positive way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread