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A man who is terrified of releasing his tax returns publicly is a man vulnerable to blackmail.. (Original Post) Fumesucker Aug 2012 OP
Great point! Riley18 Aug 2012 #1
+1, reducing voting days in Ohio and Fl is digusting... uponit7771 Aug 2012 #24
true. spanone Aug 2012 #2
I'm sure McCain already knows the power he currently yields. Segami Aug 2012 #3
Do you mean 'wields'? - n/t coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #35
There you go. Baitball Blogger Aug 2012 #4
He's also a man who has other things hidden. Skidmore Aug 2012 #5
agreed! when you have nothing Bluerthanblue Aug 2012 #6
Yep. closeupready Aug 2012 #10
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2012 #23
wow good point! n/t riverwalker Aug 2012 #7
He's not terrified, he's laying a trap - lynne Aug 2012 #8
I strongly doubt that will be the case here mazzarro Aug 2012 #9
A) He's not that smart B) what he is hiding isn't illegality scheming daemons Aug 2012 #11
more than anything, he's greedy and that greed might burn him NightWatcher Aug 2012 #47
I also believe he's doing everything he's legally allowed riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #12
yes, it's allowed--but the evil tax code needs reform, and Mitt is the star example of why librechik Aug 2012 #48
I don't think so- he's looking like an obstinate asshole Bluerthanblue Aug 2012 #13
As Oscar Wilde reportedly said, "He has no enemies, but all his friends dislike him coalition_unwilling Aug 2012 #36
No. He's always been tight with his returns. He expects to get away with it JHB Aug 2012 #14
If he or they were smart and skilled enought to lay such a trap, they'd be smart and skilled Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #15
He took a 77k deduction on his wifes Dressage horse, there's NO WAY this guy didn't take Bain uponit7771 Aug 2012 #21
He did not get the $77k tax deduction for his legitimate horse business (he got $49) riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #26
He can NOT...NOT explain 100 million in his 401K...Not just his IRA but his 401K which only uponit7771 Aug 2012 #22
Nope. Read what he did when running in Mass. Same M.O. here. Ikonoklast Aug 2012 #27
You've grasped the difference between tax evasion (illegal) and shocking tax avoidance (legal) leveymg Aug 2012 #28
It doesn't matter if everything was legal nichomachus Aug 2012 #29
Even if he paid everything he legally owed (maybe little of nothing) ThoughtCriminal Aug 2012 #33
Your concern troll is noted. jeff47 Aug 2012 #34
IMO he's just not that smart, he inherited his money so how smart Raine Aug 2012 #40
A twelve year trap? I doubt it. Marr Aug 2012 #43
Too much damage. sofa king Aug 2012 #44
Mittens is SCVDem Aug 2012 #16
it occurred to me the other day when india lost power iemitsu Aug 2012 #19
Well Said and SHOULD be in the mind of all Americans. Justice wanted Aug 2012 #17
How do you know he's not being blackmailed right now? Kablooie Aug 2012 #18
****Please send this to Obama campaign if you can**** uponit7771 Aug 2012 #20
By all means be my guest.. Fumesucker Aug 2012 #38
This has happened before, I believe Scalded Nun Aug 2012 #25
Yes, I think it came out he had filed as a Utah resident... Lucy Goosey Aug 2012 #30
George Bush was blackmailable, too. grasswire Aug 2012 #31
Very, very succinct. tavalon Aug 2012 #32
Sounds like Willard is a potential threat to National Security. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2012 #37
This is true Canuckistanian Aug 2012 #39
Mitt the Magic Mormon Texas-Limerick Aug 2012 #41
"Titanic" would not be a good choice for this country and the World knows it Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2012 #42
I had never thought of it this way. All it would take is one accountant, etc being paid off to blab patricia92243 Aug 2012 #45
Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads ProSense Aug 2012 #46
he may be beholden to Bain or other rich guys NightWatcher Aug 2012 #49

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
6. agreed! when you have nothing
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 09:16 AM
Aug 2012

to hide or be ashamed of, you don't fear people knowing who you really are.

lynne

(3,118 posts)
8. He's not terrified, he's laying a trap -
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 09:36 AM
Aug 2012

- Let's face it - he's a multi-millionaire and he's been in politics a long time. I've no doubt that he has a team of financial planners, CPA's, tax accountants, who do all of his financial work for him. He doesn't see it, he doesn't think about it, he just signs on the bottom line when they tell him.

Let's say we focus on this tax business and make it an important part of the campaign. I figure that he'll October Surprise us with a full disclosure of his tax records showing that - while he's uber-rich and he's used every legal tax dodge there is - he's paid what was due.

Then we got nothin'. Months of focus on his tax records goes under the bridge and we're left back-peddling weeks before the election.

Just my opinion but something to consider.

mazzarro

(3,450 posts)
9. I strongly doubt that will be the case here
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 09:53 AM
Aug 2012

Mittens has dodged this same issue so many times that one has to wonder about he has been hiding. If he is so above-the-board on this issue he would have released some of his tax reports to the public by now in other races that he has been involved. Furthermore it has been his habit considering that he has hidden the records of his Olympic administration and his governorship as well.

 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
11. A) He's not that smart B) what he is hiding isn't illegality
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 09:59 AM
Aug 2012

What he is hiding is that he paid a very small percent of his income in taxes.... albeit legally.... and that will allow the Dems to cast him as even MORE out of touch with the middle class.


He's in a box. He knows it... and he wants it to go away.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
47. more than anything, he's greedy and that greed might burn him
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 03:12 PM
Aug 2012

it will either show illegalities, or the fact that he has more than he's claimed, or some combination of the two.

He's screwed

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
12. I also believe he's doing everything he's legally allowed
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:02 AM
Aug 2012

I also believe his reluctance to disclose his tax returns revolves mostly around the negative public perception of his massive tax avoidance - that his tax rate is going to be shown to be so much less than ours - or that he found enough loopholes to avoid paying taxes at all.

His fellow rich guys completely understand what he's doing but the public perception of his tax avoidance would be hurtful.

Mitt isn't in any jeopardy of being blackmailed. His tax avoidance strategies are legal I believe. His fear is the public in this economic climate - he's a 1%er and the meme that the 1%ers have driven this economy over the cliff is powerful.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
48. yes, it's allowed--but the evil tax code needs reform, and Mitt is the star example of why
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 03:20 PM
Aug 2012

the code itself, and the years rich folks like Mitt have abused it LEGALLY should be a major item of outrage. That's what Mitt wants to hide.

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
13. I don't think so- he's looking like an obstinate asshole
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:02 AM
Aug 2012

and giving people who are having a difficult time 'liking' him to begin with and even more difficult time justifying his refusal to simply end the controversy.

I have more than a few "friends" (people I know) who are struggling to come to grips with the fact that he's their 'nominee' and who are unable to answer the charge that he's hiding or ashamed of his financial history- so their remedy is to double down on stupid baseless attacks on Pres. Obama.

I think Romney may be using this. We need to keep pressing the tax issue, because it is his Achilles heel. It won't go away, and it won't be 'good' for him in the long run.

The man did not get his money "through hard work" and he's growing it through playing the system. Is that the kind of man America wants to lead us?

JHB

(37,133 posts)
14. No. He's always been tight with his returns. He expects to get away with it
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:14 AM
Aug 2012

He dodged the disclosure bullets in Massachusetts when he ran for senator and governor, and in 2008 for his bid before dropping out. He's gotten away with it before, and he expects to do it again.

It's like with Dubya and his abbreviated National Guard service: stonewall, and snarl & accuse at anyone who brings it up.

He's counting on the Media not wanting to show "liberal bias" by dogging him on it, and the Democrats not wanting to appear "partisan", so that in the end they drop the matter.

No clever trap, just cocksureness that it won't matter to the people he needs to vote for him.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
15. If he or they were smart and skilled enought to lay such a trap, they'd be smart and skilled
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:19 AM
Aug 2012

enough to lay a trap that did not include months of Mitt being an international laughing stock. If he or they were capable of such a thing, they'd be capable of something far better and less harmful to his image. What you suggest is a complex tactic which requires the candidate to be very quick in the moment, each word selected with precision.
What I see is a train wreck like in a Harold Lloyd silent movie. Slow and funny, but plunging nevertheless toward the bottom of the ravine....

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
21. He took a 77k deduction on his wifes Dressage horse, there's NO WAY this guy didn't take Bain
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:08 PM
Aug 2012

...ACTIVE employee deductions which would be a lie to at least to other electoral committees and a felony.

This guy aint releasing anything

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
26. He did not get the $77k tax deduction for his legitimate horse business (he got $49)
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:12 PM
Aug 2012

The IRS wouldn't allow it.

I believe his tax avoidances are all legal. I'm sure his returns pass the legal scrutiny. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't pass the smell test of public perception however.

Or they are being scrubbed as we speak and the tax returns we are allowed to see, won't reflect his REAL returns.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
22. He can NOT...NOT explain 100 million in his 401K...Not just his IRA but his 401K which only
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:09 PM
Aug 2012

....allows 15k entrance tops in yearly.

There are so many things he would want to hide

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
27. Nope. Read what he did when running in Mass. Same M.O. here.
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:14 PM
Aug 2012

Rmoney does not let the truth come out about his income, or his taxes, period.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
28. You've grasped the difference between tax evasion (illegal) and shocking tax avoidance (legal)
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:19 PM
Aug 2012

I suspect that there is nothing more to this than the shocking and embarrassing fact that wealthy people structure their investments so that they don't have to pay taxes most years. And, that's perfectly legal.

That's probably the bigger scandal that Mitt (and the other plutos) don't want us to pay attention to.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
29. It doesn't matter if everything was legal
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:20 PM
Aug 2012

What matters is the perception of working people who can't amass fortunes by using every tax dodge in creation.

Have you use undervalued securities to build a 401K that tops $100,000,000? Have you passed $100,000,000 to your children tax free? Can you hide millions of dollars in accounts in Switzerland and the Caymans? Did you use the 2009 tax amnesty to move hundreds of millions from illegal offshore accounts back into legal offshore accounts without penalty?

These are all legal, but they're not going to sit well with blue-collar -- or even white-collar -- workers who've seen their 402Ks go from $80,000 to $25,000 because people like Romney tanked the economy.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,011 posts)
33. Even if he paid everything he legally owed (maybe little of nothing)
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 04:22 PM
Aug 2012

His tax returns may prove that he lied about his residency when running for Gov and voting or that he lied to the SEC.

Mitt's been hiding disclosure since 1994. I doubt that this was part of a 18-year October surprise plan.

You can tell the IRS that you have income from Mexican Drug Lords or selling nerve gas to Iran, and as long as you disclose all your income, it's just between you and them.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
34. Your concern troll is noted.
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 04:45 PM
Aug 2012

Now, where's your evidence that the campaign is going to be 100% about Romney's tax returns until October?

Perhaps we'll go back to talking about Baine. Or Romney's "Screw everyone but the rich" tax plan. Or any of his other bad ideas.

Talking about taxes now doesn't mean only talking about taxes forever.

Raine

(30,540 posts)
40. IMO he's just not that smart, he inherited his money so how smart
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 09:33 PM
Aug 2012

did he have be to use daddy's name to let it grow? Also yeah he's been in politics but he's held one office and other than that been a LOSER. If you want to look at someone who laid a trap look at my former Governor Gray Davis. Davis laid a trap that his opponent fell right into and he got easily re-elected. Davis ended up getting recalled but that had nothing to do with the clever trap he laid.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
44. Too much damage.
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 12:11 AM
Aug 2012

This is harming him deeply, and worse for his Republican brethren in Congress, it has also focused attention on their blocking of the middle class tax cut.

They can't afford this sort of attention, and they sure as hell can't afford to ride this out another two months. No October Surprise can reverse this sort of all-permeating damage.

Why? Because Mitt Romney is now widely known to be a lying-ass weasel, and voters simply won't believe it even if he can doctor up a legitimate excuse tomorrow.

The important thing to realize is this: if Mitt were innocent, he would have long since released the proof. He didn't. The remaining choices behind the curtains are career-ending political indiscretion, or criminal behavior.

He can't show us what's behind the curtain, and he'll take the whole GOP down with him if he doesn't.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
16. Mittens is
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 10:24 AM
Aug 2012

The epitome of every bad boss and every hours long customer service call to India.

Can anyone here relate to him?

Smarmy comes close to describing him.

iemitsu

(3,888 posts)
19. it occurred to me the other day when india lost power
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:05 PM
Aug 2012

that many americans had received a day's reprieve from harassing phone calls demanding payments.
maybe unstable electricity supplies in south asia will promote the return of some tech. driven jobs?

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
38. By all means be my guest..
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 06:06 PM
Aug 2012

The idea is not original with me, I just distilled down the thoughts of a few other people..

Scalded Nun

(1,231 posts)
25. This has happened before, I believe
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:11 PM
Aug 2012

While I am not 100% of what all went on in MA, I am under the impression that he did in fact have to refile/straighten out tax issues once he got into office. He lied until he got what he wanted, then corrected after the fact figuring no one would care any longer. That seems to have pretty much played out like he wanted it to.

I, for one, would like to see more come to light over what happened in Italy. I guess if a lot gets made over that then the repubbies will accuse Italy of trying to affect our election.

Lucy Goosey

(2,940 posts)
30. Yes, I think it came out he had filed as a Utah resident...
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:23 PM
Aug 2012

...and had to retroactively amend his taxes to file as a resident of Utah and Massachusetts. (But someone please correct me if I'm wrong here.)

I think it's pretty clear that he didn't actually meet the residency requirements for MA Governor.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
31. George Bush was blackmailable, too.
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 12:33 PM
Aug 2012

Hell, Bill Clinton was blackmailable before the Lewinsky matter became public.

Bush had the AWOL matter, and also the apparent felony arrest for which he did community service, and also the reported abortion for the girlfriend who was silenced.

But Bush had enough hard-knuckle power to keep the lid on.

 

Texas-Limerick

(93 posts)
41. Mitt the Magic Mormon
Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:49 PM
Aug 2012

Last edited Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Mitt the Magic Mormon  hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease
Old Willard Marriott loved that rascal Mitt
Joining in  his off shore schemes and other spurious shit, oh

Mitt the Magic Mormon hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease
Mitt the Magic Mormon hid hiUs money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease

Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail
Willard kept a lookout for the Coast Guard on their tail
Drug king pins and porno queens would bow wherever they came
Swiss bankers rolled out the red carpet when Mitt roared out his name

Mitt the Magic Mormon hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease
Mitt the Magic Mormon hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease

A mentor can't live forever but passes on his toys
And Mitt tries to teach that shit to his own little boys
One night it happened and Willard could play no more
But without his mentor, protege Mitt was just a feckless bore

His horned head bent in sorrow, his split tail felt the pain,
Mitt no longer had the gruff to  continue work at Bain
Without his lifelong friend, Mitt could not be brave,
Until he devised a plan, 
about a country he could enslave, oh

Mitt the Magic Mormon hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease
Mitt the Magic Mormon hid his money over seas
And politicked in the US, while evading taxes like disease
_____

patricia92243

(12,590 posts)
45. I had never thought of it this way. All it would take is one accountant, etc being paid off to blab
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 05:21 AM
Aug 2012

Romney has put himself in a very messy situation. It is only a matter of time before someone will absolutely, definately spill the beans - before the election.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
46. Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 03:08 PM
Aug 2012
Mitt Romney Started Bain Capital With Money From Families Tied To Death Squads
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021094872

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
49. he may be beholden to Bain or other rich guys
Wed Aug 8, 2012, 03:22 PM
Aug 2012

do we want President who is beholden and can be controlled so easily?

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